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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/3/2006 1:57:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 2:02:32 PM EDT by dave3006]
In my trips to the various shooting schools, I have always used a web belt based system for carrying my ammo. Typically, I will have a web belt with a Bianchi holster, Bianch mag carrier for my rifle and pistol, and maybe one of the old military 3 magazine pouches that also holds grenades (note - I don't have the grenade part).

The thing that I like about it is that I can situate the gear towards the rear so that it is easy to go prone. I can carry 4 mags + one in the gun. If I need to carry more, I have a backpack with a hydration system that I can throw on.

Can someone make a case why a vest based system would be a better approach for a SHTF ect situation? I would like to understand some of the advantages of the MOLLE type vests for this purpose.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:07:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:12:52 PM EDT
I dont think anyone can say system A is better than system B. It is all subjective. What one person likes, another may not. I prefer a vest, (Marine/Air Force) whereas my brother in law (Army) prefers the belt and Y Harness.

My unit issued two types of vests, one light weight, and the other heavy. I liked the heavier vest even though it was not as comfortable in the desert. It simply felt more durable, giving me more confidence that it would hold up better. You are going to have to play around a bit with several systems and find one that works best for you.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:21:23 PM EDT
I still prefer belt based system, but using blackhawks H-harness with camelbak. I also have a couple of vests.

I use what the mission dictates, but for some reason still prefer ALICE gear. I don't carry much even in the field so there is no need for some of the "specialty" pouch things available with MOLLE systems. I carry 4 mags for my SIG, and 6 mags for M4, I also have extra ammo in my pack.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:08:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 6:10:28 PM EDT by boltcatch]
The belt based LBE's are still probably the best thing going for places like jungles, but I doubt any of us have to worry about those. Then again, I doubt it matters what load bearing gear any of us choose - your stated loadout is fine for you as a civilian, and you're on the right track using it at shooting classes instead of the latest uber-tactical mall ninja swat-turtle outfit.

I still like the modular systems, though. They aren't all limited to the vest format - the Tactical Tailor 2 piece MAV's and SO Tech Hellcats, for example, can be unbuckled in the front for more comfort in the prone. Also, it and other chest rigs typically carry the mags higher if they're in the front, so they aren't in the way when prone anyways. Chest rigs also don't have anything in back to interfere with a ruck, while belt based LBE's need to be worn low so rucks can ride over them.

Vests can also have the gear moved towards the back - that's part of the great thing about the modularity, you can put your crap where you want it.

I think the only reason you'd want to change your load bearing gear is to (1) carry more mags, or (2) work better with a ruck. If you don't need to do either, then spend the money on classes and ammo instead.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:01:52 PM EDT
I have these pockets on my armchair they hold all kinds of gear, and popcorn.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:30:01 PM EDT
I have the Alice belt system and an AK-style chest harness. I like each one. I usually wear the chest harness while out and about. I think I'm going to go to a slightly different chest pouch/vest system with 30rd mags and use a web belt with 20rd mags/mag pouches...

TS
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:00:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pointman_M4A1:
I still prefer belt based system, but using blackhawks H-harness with camelbak. I also have a couple of vests.

I use what the mission dictates, but for some reason still prefer ALICE gear. I don't carry much even in the field so there is no need for some of the "specialty" pouch things available with MOLLE systems. I carry 4 mags for my SIG, and 6 mags for M4, I also have extra ammo in my pack.



i use the same setup. a h harness and a pistol belt with pad. i just wear it high. you can use m16 pouches, first aid/compass pouches, SAW pouches, canteen pouches, and a butt pack. i use a gunslinger pack also. keep it simple.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:48:11 PM EDT
the only problem with the LBE is when you have to hump a ruck the clips cut into your back and they never seem to stay latched no matter how much 100 mileanhour tape you put on
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:11:00 PM EDT
the best is leather with pouches for 5-round clips

or those bandloiers that you can wear in an "X" across your chest
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:29:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Carry-A-Big-Stick:
the only problem with the LBE is when you have to hump a ruck the clips cut into your back and they never seem to stay latched no matter how much 100 mileanhour tape you put on


you talkin about a LCE? remove the snap hooks, replace with 550 cord in a M pattern. replace alice clips with 550 cord also.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:50:40 AM EDT
Remember that there are two types of vests out there. Not MOLLE and other, but vests that also have a belt and those that are higher up.

The older issued Load Bearing Vest is an example of one that was a vest and used a belt. There was a MOLLE version for medics too.

Similar to this


also this style

The loops that are barely visible in the bottom are supposed to attach to a pistol belt which can then be used to carry more pouches if desired.

These can carry more than either the chest only rigs, or the belt only ones, and can carry them comfortably since you can put the heavier stuff on the belt so the weight is carried directly on your legs and hips, and not the back.

The only real disadvantage to these (and therefore the big advantage to the higher worn chest rig types) is when wearing a heavier backpack. Somewhere around 60+% of the weight of the pack should actually be on the hips, and not the back. The only way to do that is to use the waist strap and that is just about impossible with a pistol belt there that has pouches attached.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:26:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 5:29:43 AM EDT by Stickman]

The thing that I like about it is that I can situate the gear towards the rear so that it is easy to go prone


As someone who wears a heavy gunbelt every day, I would suggest that you may want to consider other options. A heavy belt digs in, and just about every street cop has back problems. While your belt might not be heavy now, for any real SHTF sceanrio where you thought you may have to use a weapon, you will want to carry more mags and gear.

Going prone is nice, and I can see why you set gear up towards the back, but in the real world, you will probably be getting into and out of vehicles. Gear stored in the back needs to be positioned carefully to prevent serious injury if you go down on your back. Impact from falling, fighting, or getting bounced around in a vehicle can cause serious damage. If you are lucky like me, the pain will die down after 4 or 5 years, but it never heals 100%.

From a tactics point of view, reloading by reaching behind your back makes it harder to stay in the gunfight, Continuity of fire is best maintained, or at least helped along by using your equipment most effectively. When bullets are flying, speed because important. Reloads, while empty, or clearing a stoppage isn't easy if you are hunkered down behind cover an reaching behind you. If you are in a vehicle, its even worse.

If you want to go with a belt, think about a decent harness. Tactical Tailor makes a great one, but anything is better than nothing.

Lastly, if you have been to different shooting schools, you know that the mission dictates what we bring. While a belt works for a class, or in a hurry, the are times when a vest will work better. There are also times when a chest harness is a better beast. When I did time in the desert, I wore a vest. This was before chest harnesses were popular with US forces, and when almost everyone wore a LBE. For me, the vest worked much better for what I did. You need to figure out what will work for your scenario.

I hope this rambling was of a little help. Its a topic that is best talked about over beer, because there are plenty of war stories to give pros and cons of the above.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:34:10 AM EDT
I've wore the old TA50, SPEAR and MOLLE..

each one has it's +/-'s

I suggest trying on each one and see for yourself what works best for you.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:43:42 AM EDT
Yeah what Stick said.

Especially the beer part!

It is tough for civilians to do good comparisons without spending a ton of money. Getting together with other units and service branches, or in the case of LEO's, other departments, gives you a good chance to check out each others gear. And its a hell of a lot more fun over a cold beer.

I have learned more sitting in the club swapping stories with others than in just about any formal training environment I have ever been in.
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