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Posted: 1/9/2006 4:15:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 4:34:42 PM EDT by ballisticbill]
Is that better????

Sorry Guys

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:17:19 PM EDT
not this again....
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:17:50 PM EDT
major dupage


that article is B.S.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:19:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:20:29 PM EDT
I will not say it but, Last year is calling you.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:21:10 PM EDT
Forgot the IBTL.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:22:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BallisticTip:
Forgot the IBTL.

forgot mine as well

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:23:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 4:24:38 PM EDT by ballisticbill]
I assume this has already been posted in the past
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:26:59 PM EDT

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:27:23 PM EDT
The M16 must not be all that bad if he was around to write this propaganda
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:28:56 PM EDT

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:29:27 PM EDT

I can't believe it. This gets passed around at least bi-monthly.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:32:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 4:36:11 PM EDT by ballisticbill]
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:02:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ballisticbill:
I assume this has already been posted in the past

Most definitely, and large portions of it debunked as inaccurate as well.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:56:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 7:17:35 PM EDT by Creeper]
Heard much the same from other Marine's. My friend Cpl J. Webb of the 1st Marine said nothing sucks worse than a jam in a firefight which happened but not as frequently as some might think but stoppages were common and would take a soldier out of the fight very quickly unless a captured weapon could be secured since the clearing almost always required disassembly. The sand does get into everything but overall he did prefer the M16 system for accuracy above anything though AK's were used and once in a while a captured PKM for the reasons mentioned with the SAW. Also mentioned multi-hits with 5.56 to bring them down, they would do this purposely, shoot three our four rounds into an insurgent, and waite for his buddies to pick him up while the guy layed their screaming. He did say that several times he had kills at distances outside 300 meters but only with carefully aimed shots, most times gut shots weren't enough and took a few rounds to put someone down. He said the Beretta 9mm is a joke overall, jams frequently unlike the post I copied, the FMJ rounds just don't do it and multi-hits were required. K-Bar's were used more often then one would think. Wishes his unit was issued a .45 but only saw a few. For some reason some guys in the 1st Marine had Benelli's and some 590's- he said nothing works better in house clearing, flat out. He said the insurgent's for some reason had WWII Browning .30 cal's that we gave to Sadam a long time ago? Said these we're mostly only used in the beginning of the war when we still fought the actual Iraqi soldiers. He said up until he left, August 2005, most of the fighters were not Iraqi, but Iranian and even some we're Chechnyian soldiers including the sniper that shot him right before he left after two years in country.

From the thread:
"Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs, veterans and interested
guys. A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with my son Jordan, who
was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is well (a little
thin), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second tour in
early '06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4 more

years. He loves

the Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning to Iraq.

Jordan spent 7 months at "Camp Blue Diamond" in Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache.
He saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about weapons,
equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of interest to
you. Nothing is by any means classified. No politics here, just a Marine
with a bird's eye view's opinions:

1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum
powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel
filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is
more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems
also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and
weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the

weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the

5.56mm (.223) round. Poor

penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even

torso hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down. Fun fact:

Random autopsies on dead insurgents shows a high level of opiate use.

2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine
gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of ****. Chronic
jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that's fun in
the middle of a firefight).

3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert
environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for
self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys
hit multiple times and still in the fight.

4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for
clearing houses to good effect.

5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!).
Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down. Originally
developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted
and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure
over there.

6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma deuce" is
still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper,
puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon

7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.
Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one.
With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put 'em down with a torso
hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol

work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old government
model .45's are being re-issued en masse.

The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a
modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight
Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the
sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.

9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and
accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle
suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy.
Definitely here to stay.

10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win
mag. Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have
been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his
third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record
for confirmed kills with OVER 100.

11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and
can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an
AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as **** to wear, almost unbearable in the
summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for
head shots whenever possible. All the bull**** about the "old" body armor
making our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED
explosions are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in
most cases.

12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular
performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very
little enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being
whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all seen
the videos.

13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are
Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban operations.
Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it.

I cant help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and

ordnance are 50 or more years old!!!!!!!!! With all our technology, it's


WWII and Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry


is frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.

Bad guy weapons:

1) Mostly AK47's The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in

the desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM

belt fed light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the
enemy mostly shoots like ****. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire.
However, they are seeing more and more precision weapons,

especially sniper rifles. (Iran, again) Fun fact: Captured enemy have

apparently marveled at

the marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently
told in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can
be easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness.
Let's just say they know better now.

2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple,
reliable and as common as dogshit. The enemy responded to our up-armored
humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still
killing a lot of our guys.

3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet
anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan's
area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm artillery
shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the
explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank.
Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately,
they are much more sophisticated "shape charges"

(Iranian) specifically designed to penetrate armor. Fact: Most of the
ready made IED's are supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists
(Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That's
why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are
ingenious, the latest being shape charges in Styrofoam containers spray
painted to look like the cinderblocks that litter all Iraqi roads. We find
about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes
of this war.

4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets
(with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan's NCO's
lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire".
Jordan's base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and
rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It
did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar
teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a
matter of seconds.

5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by
cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld
GPS units for navigation and "Google earth" for overhead views of our
positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their
explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare.
They are very careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and
laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.

Who are the bad guys?:

Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They operate
mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are mostly
"foreigners", non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world
(and Europe). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course, the knowledge
and complicity of the Syrian govt.) , and then travel down the "rat line"
which is the trail of towns along the Euphrates River that we've been
hitting hard for the last few months. Some are virtually untrained young
Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in "sacrifice squads".
Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al
Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.) These are the guys running around murdering
civilians en masse and cutting heads off. The Chechens (many of whom are
Caucasian), are supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters. (they
have been fighting the Russians for years). In the Baghdad area and south,
most of the insurgents are Iranian

inspired (and led) Iraqi Shiites. The Iranian Shiia have been very adept at
infiltrating the Iraqi local govt.'s, the police forces and the Army. The
have had a massive spy and agitator

network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's. Most of the

Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or gave up long ago.

Bad Guy Tactics:

When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked every
time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very common
earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally sacrifice 8-10 man
teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and firing Ak's and RPG's
directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They get mowed down like
grass every time. ( see the M2 and M240 above). Jordan's base was hit like
this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to the same
building, probably for what they think will be a glorious last stand.
Instead, we call in air and that's the end of that more often than not.
These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo's (Allah's Waiting
Room). We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a science. The
fast mover's, mostly Marine F-18's, are taking an ever increasing toll on
the enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130
Spectre gunships cut them to

ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially at night. Interestingly,
artillery is hardly used at all. Fun fact: The enemy death toll is
supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why we're seeing less and less
infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber ****. The new strategy is
simple: attrition.

The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian
non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian
casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques are
locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo and
flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for
civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without
hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to the Americans or the new
Iraqi govt. Kidnapping of family members (especially children) is common to
influence people they are trying to influence but cant reach, such as local
govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.).

The first thing our guys are told is "don't get captured". They know that
if captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet. Zarqawi
openly offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American serviceman.
This motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give a **** about
the war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped by common
criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the
death. Surrender is not an option.

The Iraqi's are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren't worth a ****.
Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they are
getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawi's use of suicide bombers,
en masse, against the civilian population was a serious tactical mistake.
Many Iraqi's were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the
police forces went up, along with their motivation. It also led to an
exponential increase in good intel because the Iraqi's are sick of the
insurgent attacks against civilians. The Kurds are solidly pro-American and
fearless fighters.

According to Jordan, morale among our guys is very high. They not only
believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are
stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they
almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are
despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1
and then see **** like "Are we losing in Iraq" on TV and the print media.
For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food and
leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, there are not enough
guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the insurgency,
primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the
borders with Iran and Syria. The Iranians and the Syrians just cant stand
the thought of Iraq being an American ally (with, of course, permanent US
bases there). "

Interesting how negative his view is off the 5.56 weapondry....and I was unaware that the .45s were being reissued to standard combat units?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:08:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:19:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 8:19:36 PM EDT by bmmc]
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:31:13 PM EDT
In Before The Dupe.....
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:57:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 8:57:22 PM EDT by dsg2003gt]
omfg does this thing ever die?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:33:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:39:25 PM EDT

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:43:05 PM EDT

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:10:18 PM EDT
Sad part is I saw this crap was published as a newspaper article somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:35:07 PM EDT
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