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Posted: 9/25/2005 6:45:27 PM EDT
[#1]
even with the pinned mag you can still only have 2 options, eg. pistol grip/coll. stock or bayonet lug, pistol grip ect ect. thats the way i understand the ca law. just like the awb. and how would it be illegal to own something after a year if it was legal for the first year? you would be better off to go to a gun dealer and order one, he/she would be able to tell you exactuly what you can and cant have, and order it so its legal.
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:33:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I know you probably don't want to hear this but I would MOVE! Otherwise, check out your hometown forum. It looks like you may not be able to import one to the country you currently reside in. Check out here.
Sorry. But look on the bright side, it looks like you can do anything you want to do to a rimfire rifle! 
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:35:12 PM EDT
[#3]
If you want a decent AR-15, the only reasonable alternative is to move to a red state. Sad, but true.
 The FAB 10, given that I believe mylt1 is correct and you can only have one other banned feature with it (pick one of pistol grip, flash supressor or bayonet lug) is an abomination. If you were in a free state you could have a full capacity detachable box mag, pistol grip, flash supressor and bayonet lug w/o problems. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:59:12 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't believe the FAB-10 is considered an "Assault Weapon".
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:05:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Your choices are pretty much the FAB-10 or the Vulcan, until someone else steps up and gets something approved by ATFE/DOJ. Either one will allow the use of as many evil features as you'd like, since they both have a nondetachable magazine of not more than 10 rounds (the ability to accept a detachable magazine is the qualifier for evil features to be counted as an AW, acceptance of a detachable magazine isn't an evil feature in itself).
Another option may be to make a single shot (straight pull bolt action) AR with a detachable magazine, but I can't think of a way to purchase a standard receiver in CA even if you pinky-promised not to make it a semiauto (semiauto and centerfire are the other 2 qualifiers for evil features to be counted as an AW). |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:35:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks TREETOP. Your post was very helpful. Currently, I'm going to school in Colorado which has much MUCH less strict gun laws. I'd probably buy and build the gun here in CO. I'd like to have fun with it (ie. with a detachable magazine) before taking it back to California. Is there anyway to make a standard lower CA legal? I assume that I probably cannot do that, you mentioned the receiver has to be ATFE/DOJ compliant. Although, looking at pictures of the FAB-10, there appears to be a simple metal flap covering the magazine port. Can this be removed while I'm in CO so I can use a normal, detachable mag? If someone can fill me in with details on how exactly the FAB-10 works, I'd surely appreciate it, as their website is a bit vague.
I guess I'm in a bit of a sticky spot. I'd love to have a fully-functional AR, but living in CA is just making this difficult. I guess I should have my fun while I'm still here in CO. Thanks for all the help! |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:58:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Fedge, my suggestion is to keep your upper when you move back to CA, and sell your standard lower in CO. Buy a FAB-10 or Vulcan lower when you get back. Or if you plan on getting back to CO occasionally, keep your lower there with a family member or friend. The fixed magazine lower is admittedly less than ideal, but it'll keep you familiar with the AR and allow you to use any regular upper.
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Posted: 9/25/2005 9:05:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Call Michael at 775-246-3500 and talk with him about the FAB 10. This is a small company that stands behind their product. You should also talk with Paul, the Home Town moderator for California. He has several ARs with [and without] the FAB 10. It is a good product.
Patty |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 9:06:38 PM EDT
[#9]
TREETOP, Actually I was thinking the same thing--buying two lowers, one for CA, and one for CO. How easy/managable is it to swap out lowers?
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Posted: 9/25/2005 9:08:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Cakewalk. There are 2 pins that push out by hand, and it's off. Set the upper on the other lower and press the pins in on that lower. The pins are held captive in the lower receiver so they don't get lost. |
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Posted: 9/26/2005 8:14:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Well, I got an email back from Vulcan this morning. Very speedy and helpful response. Their 10-round mag is "pinned" in place, so it seems to me like I might be able to unpin the mag. But if not, oh well.
How do you all feel about this Vulcan reciever? Any better/worse than the fab10? I'm not sure if these questions woule be better asked in the CA forum, so If I'm posting in the wrong forum, let me know. |
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Posted: 9/26/2005 8:23:17 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 9/26/2005 12:01:44 PM EDT
[#13]
How do you reload these receivers with the fixed magazine, and how long does it take?
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Posted: 9/26/2005 12:36:50 PM EDT
[#14]
With the FAB 10 which is now made with the bolt catch feature, with an easy click of the button, the stock opens and a new clip is pushed down into the chamber and then snapped back in place. It can be done very quickly. With out the bolt catch feature we recommend our rear take down pin, with a nylon guide and stripper clip. Its quite a bit more tricky but still possible of doing rapidly. all FAB 10s are now manufactured with the bolt catch feature. Patty |
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Posted: 9/26/2005 12:50:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Do you have any pictures or perhaps video of the process? That would help a great deal and I'd appreciate seeing how it worked.
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Posted: 9/26/2005 1:16:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Could you elaborate on this "bolt catch feature?" What exactly does it do and how does it work? I understand that removing the rear take-down pin breaks the gun open, but how is the "bolt catch" different?
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Posted: 9/26/2005 1:26:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Gentlemen I'm afraid this supercedes my abilities. I am merely the webmaster. While I have shot AR15's many times, I live in Oregon and do not actually own one with the FAB 10 lower. I'll see if I can get someone in here to answer your questions, or Michael to dictate a response for you.
My apologies. We are working on pictures for the website but that's about all I know. Patty |
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Posted: 9/26/2005 2:21:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Yes. The clause in the law is something along the lines of centerfire rifle with the ability to accept a detachable magazine. As long as the receiver doesn't use detachable magazines - and the fixed magazine is less than 10 rounds I belive that you are good to go.
This is a gray area that works against the citizens of this state. There are weapons that are banned by name - this is clearly not the case with a garage built weapon or the FAB10. There is also the whole AR-15 "series" thing which was held by the courts to be un-Constitutionally vauge. That's not going to help as the law wasn't removed nor will a vindictive DA care what the superior court said as they did not strike down the law. This is the area where FAB10's might run afoul of an idiot of a DA - the law be damned, the court ruling be damned, the US Constitutions 2nd, 10th, and 14th Admendments be damned ... those black guns don't belong in my beloved village ... but you can be screwed into the poor house by any one of our out-of-control DA's over nearly any issue now so it might as well be over a firearm. |
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Posted: 9/26/2005 2:22:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Yes this is true. |
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Posted: 9/26/2005 2:29:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Found it.
So since A thru F are dependent on "(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine" if you aren't a centerfire or have a detachable magazine you're good to go. Weapons like the M1A and Mini-14/-30 do not have A-F and are therefore good-to-go. Bayonet lugs didn't make the list at all. 
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Posted: 9/26/2005 3:07:09 PM EDT
[#21]
So, if I were to have one without a gas system it would no longer be semiautomatic and I could therefore have a detachable magazine?
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Posted: 9/26/2005 7:58:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Wrong. You can have everything if the mag is pinned.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 12:43:21 PM EDT
[#23]
• A real lower receiver (not a FAB10 or a Vulcan) • A detachable mag • A rifle that I can use both in CA and outside CA I had considered buying two lowers. This would certainly solve the CA legal problem. But I just don't like the idea of buying a crippled gun. There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with that. On top of being crippled, the FAB10 is more than three times more expensive than a standard lower (at least the one I'm looking at anyway). The vulcan is a nice idea, but Vulcan gets such terrible reviews that I don't want to spend $250 on a POS lower receiver. This has been my dilemma. Well, the solution actually came to me from the FAB10 website. According to CA Firearm law: 12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip. As long as I can get around points A-F, I'm golden. No thumbhole stock, no collapsible stock, no grenade launcher (oh well...), no flash hider, and no forward pistol grip ... all easy enough to eliminate. The only problem is the pistol grip. Well, the FAB10 people have the solution: An ATF Approved NON-Pistol-Grip Grip. http://www.fabten.com/what's_new.htm For 10 bucks, this is a REALLY easy REALLY cheap solution to my problem. Why buy an expensive, crippled lower reciever which I then have to swap out everytime I enter CA ... when I can just put a new grip on?!?! I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. So if any of you folks are in my situation, take a look at this grip. It has saved me significant headaches and expenses. Oh, and by the way...... I'll probably be ordering the kit and picking up the lower within the next week or so he |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 2:06:29 PM EDT
[#24]
I've seen this before, but is it CA DOJ approved as a non-grip? The web site doesn't say. I had thought that this was just a way to get around the now expired Fed assault weapons ban. The Fab 10 lower says it’s DOJ approved and comes with a letter.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 2:15:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Well, woodenword, I guess that's unclear... It doesn't say whether or not it's CA DOJ... just ATF. According to 12276.1 (a)(1)(A) the grip doesn't "protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" so at least it fits the description. Weather or not it's specifically approved is worth inquiring about. Perhaps I should get a letter in the mail.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 2:20:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Simple answer - stay here in Colorado!! You can even have full-auto weapons here!!
California is a nice place to visit...... 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 2:27:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Unfortunately, I surf ... a lot. And I can't bare the thought of being away from the beach that long. And besides, there are no IN 'N OUT burgers in CO and there's not way I'm givin' up my double-double animal-style.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 2:40:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Fedge,
I would ask Fab 10 to provide you the documentation. See if they will state if it will make it CA legal. They probalby won't state it if they haven't done their research. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:53:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Fedge is my CA brother... I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I specialize in AR-15's, but I can't buy/sell lowers because I am in CA. Therefore, I just do barrels. Thanks for reminding me about IN 'N OUT, I think I'll go there for lunch tomorrow...  Yeah, I live and work 1.5 miles from the beach, CA ain't that bad once you get over the communism crap. Randall |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 7:14:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Hmmm... You've got a point there about the IN 'N OUT Burgers!! There's one in Phoenix, but the surfing in AZ leaves a lot to be desired!
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Posted: 9/29/2005 7:20:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Call MIcheal, I'm not sure if its CA legal or not. I honestly can't remember. I'm sorry. Patty 775-246-3500 if you IM me your phone number I can have Michael call you too - just let me know best time to call. Patty |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 8:28:03 AM EDT
[#32]
I'm glad I could help you with your lunch decision hisAND my gun. hereabouts Patty, Thanks for all the info. I sent you an IM. |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 11:20:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Unfortunately, that grip is NOT CA legal. Sorry for the confusion.
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