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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/25/2005 6:15:34 PM EDT
I'm looking to build a CA legal AR15 and I had some questions. I mainly shoot skeet, and own a sizeable amount of skeet and trap guns, but I've never done much rifle shooting. After shooting a friend's AR (in Colorado) I fell in love with the gun. It shot beautifuly, and was very comfortable. I'm sure you'll all agree with me He
After doing a lot of reading, I assume the following: An AR is legal in CA with any options providing that it has a fixed, 10 round magazine. So, as long as it has a fixed 10 round mag, I could have a pistol grip, collapsible stock, etc. Is this assumption correct?

If so, what options do I have? I've looked at the Fab10. What are your feelings about this lower? Is it high-quality? What else is out there besides the Fab10. Can I drop the Fab10 into a standard 16" rifle kit from Del-Ton?

Can I even build this weapon now? I'm not sure if I understand the AW ban well enough to answer that question. I've heard a lot about registering AWs and that owning one after the one year registration period is illegal. But would this Fab10 (or comparable) AR15 even be considered an assault wepaon and would it be legal to build and own NOW?

Sorry for all the questions... I hope they make sense. Thank you for your help, I look forward to being a part of the AR community.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:45:27 PM EDT
even with the pinned mag you can still only have 2 options, eg. pistol grip/coll. stock or bayonet lug, pistol grip ect ect. thats the way i understand the ca law. just like the awb. and how would it be illegal to own something after a year if it was legal for the first year? you would be better off to go to a gun dealer and order one, he/she would be able to tell you exactuly what you can and cant have, and order it so its legal.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:33:45 PM EDT
I know you probably don't want to hear this but I would MOVE! Otherwise, check out your hometown forum. It looks like you may not be able to import one to the country you currently reside in. Check out here.

Sorry. But look on the bright side, it looks like you can do anything you want to do to a rimfire rifle!

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:35:12 PM EDT
If you want a decent AR-15, the only reasonable alternative is to move to a red state. Sad, but true.
The FAB 10, given that I believe mylt1 is correct and you can only have one other banned feature with it (pick one of pistol grip, flash supressor or bayonet lug) is an abomination. If you were in a free state you could have a full capacity detachable box mag, pistol grip, flash supressor and bayonet lug w/o problems.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:59:12 PM EDT
I don't believe the FAB-10 is considered an "Assault Weapon".
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:05:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:35:46 PM EDT
Thanks TREETOP. Your post was very helpful. Currently, I'm going to school in Colorado which has much MUCH less strict gun laws. I'd probably buy and build the gun here in CO. I'd like to have fun with it (ie. with a detachable magazine) before taking it back to California. Is there anyway to make a standard lower CA legal? I assume that I probably cannot do that, you mentioned the receiver has to be ATFE/DOJ compliant. Although, looking at pictures of the FAB-10, there appears to be a simple metal flap covering the magazine port. Can this be removed while I'm in CO so I can use a normal, detachable mag? If someone can fill me in with details on how exactly the FAB-10 works, I'd surely appreciate it, as their website is a bit vague.

I guess I'm in a bit of a sticky spot. I'd love to have a fully-functional AR, but living in CA is just making this difficult. I guess I should have my fun while I'm still here in CO. Thanks for all the help!
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:58:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 9:03:46 PM EDT by TREETOP]
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:05:08 PM EDT
Call Michael at 775-246-3500 and talk with him about the FAB 10. This is a small company that stands behind their product. You should also talk with Paul, the Home Town moderator for California. He has several ARs with [and without] the FAB 10. It is a good product.

Patty
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:06:38 PM EDT
TREETOP, Actually I was thinking the same thing--buying two lowers, one for CA, and one for CO. How easy/managable is it to swap out lowers?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:08:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:14:55 AM EDT
Well, I got an email back from Vulcan this morning. Very speedy and helpful response. Their 10-round mag is "pinned" in place, so it seems to me like I might be able to unpin the mag. But if not, oh well.

How do you all feel about this Vulcan reciever? Any better/worse than the fab10?

I'm not sure if these questions woule be better asked in the CA forum, so If I'm posting in the wrong forum, let me know.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:23:17 AM EDT
We sell a video on how to remove the pins and replace the lower. CLICK HERE

Patty
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:01:44 PM EDT
How do you reload these receivers with the fixed magazine, and how long does it take?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:36:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By aerofocus:
How do you reload these receivers with the fixed magazine, and how long does it take?



With the FAB 10 which is now made with the bolt catch feature, with an easy click of the button, the stock opens and a new clip is pushed down into the chamber and then snapped back in place. It can be done very quickly.

With out the bolt catch feature we recommend our rear take down pin, with a nylon guide and stripper clip. Its quite a bit more tricky but still possible of doing rapidly.

all FAB 10s are now manufactured with the bolt catch feature.

Patty
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:50:48 PM EDT
Do you have any pictures or perhaps video of the process? That would help a great deal and I'd appreciate seeing how it worked.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:16:31 PM EDT
Could you elaborate on this "bolt catch feature?" What exactly does it do and how does it work? I understand that removing the rear take-down pin breaks the gun open, but how is the "bolt catch" different?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:26:53 PM EDT
Gentlemen I'm afraid this supercedes my abilities. I am merely the webmaster. While I have shot AR15's many times, I live in Oregon and do not actually own one with the FAB 10 lower. I'll see if I can get someone in here to answer your questions, or Michael to dictate a response for you.

My apologies. We are working on pictures for the website but that's about all I know. Patty
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:21:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:22:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:29:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:07:09 PM EDT
So, if I were to have one without a gas system it would no longer be semiautomatic and I could therefore have a detachable magazine?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:58:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mylt1:
even with the pinned mag you can still only have 2 options, eg. pistol grip/coll. stock or bayonet lug, pistol grip ect ect. thats the way i understand the ca law. just like the awb. and how would it be illegal to own something after a year if it was legal for the first year? you would be better off to go to a gun dealer and order one, he/she would be able to tell you exactuly what you can and cant have, and order it so its legal.



Wrong.

You can have everything if the mag is pinned.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:43:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 11:19:19 AM EDT by Fedge]
I think I've found a viable solution to my problem(s). I want a fully-functional rifle, meaning:
• A real lower receiver (not a FAB10 or a Vulcan)
• A detachable mag
• A rifle that I can use both in CA and outside CA

I had considered buying two lowers. This would certainly solve the CA legal problem. But I just don't like the idea of buying a crippled gun. There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with that. On top of being crippled, the FAB10 is more than three times more expensive than a standard lower (at least the one I'm looking at anyway). The vulcan is a nice idea, but Vulcan gets such terrible reviews that I don't want to spend $250 on a POS lower receiver. This has been my dilemma.

Well, the solution actually came to me from the FAB10 website. According to CA Firearm law:

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

As long as I can get around points A-F, I'm golden. No thumbhole stock, no collapsible stock, no grenade launcher (oh well...), no flash hider, and no forward pistol grip ... all easy enough to eliminate. The only problem is the pistol grip. Well, the FAB10 people have the solution: An ATF Approved NON-Pistol-Grip Grip.

http://www.fabten.com/what's_new.htm

For 10 bucks, this is a REALLY easy REALLY cheap solution to my problem. Why buy an expensive, crippled lower reciever which I then have to swap out everytime I enter CA ... when I can just put a new grip on?!?! I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner.

So if any of you folks are in my situation, take a look at this grip. It has saved me significant headaches and expenses.

Oh, and by the way...... I'll probably be ordering the kit and picking up the lower within the next week or so he
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:06:29 PM EDT
I've seen this before, but is it CA DOJ approved as a non-grip? The web site doesn't say. I had thought that this was just a way to get around the now expired Fed assault weapons ban. The Fab 10 lower says it’s DOJ approved and comes with a letter.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:15:29 PM EDT
Well, woodenword, I guess that's unclear... It doesn't say whether or not it's CA DOJ... just ATF. According to 12276.1 (a)(1)(A) the grip doesn't "protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" so at least it fits the description. Weather or not it's specifically approved is worth inquiring about. Perhaps I should get a letter in the mail.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:20:36 PM EDT
Simple answer - stay here in Colorado!! You can even have full-auto weapons here!!
California is a nice place to visit......
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:27:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 2:27:48 PM EDT by Fedge]
Unfortunately, I surf ... a lot. And I can't bare the thought of being away from the beach that long. And besides, there are no IN 'N OUT burgers in CO and there's not way I'm givin' up my double-double animal-style.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:40:19 PM EDT
Fedge,
I would ask Fab 10 to provide you the documentation. See if they will state if it will make it CA legal. They probalby won't state it if they haven't done their research.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 9:53:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fedge:
Unfortunately, I surf ... a lot. And I can't bare the thought of being away from the beach that long. And besides, there are no IN 'N OUT burgers in CO and there's not way I'm givin' up my double-double animal-style.



Fedge is my CA brother...
I'm on the other end of the spectrum.
I specialize in AR-15's, but I can't buy/sell lowers because I am in CA.
Therefore, I just do barrels.

Thanks for reminding me about IN 'N OUT, I think I'll go there for lunch tomorrow...
Yeah, I live and work 1.5 miles from the beach, CA ain't that bad once you get over the communism crap.

Randall
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:14:04 AM EDT
Hmmm... You've got a point there about the IN 'N OUT Burgers!! There's one in Phoenix, but the surfing in AZ leaves a lot to be desired!
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:20:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fedge:
Well, woodenword, I guess that's unclear... It doesn't say whether or not it's CA DOJ... just ATF. According to 12276.1 (a)(1)(A) the grip doesn't "protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" so at least it fits the description. Weather or not it's specifically approved is worth inquiring about. Perhaps I should get a letter in the mail.



Call MIcheal, I'm not sure if its CA legal or not. I honestly can't remember. I'm sorry. Patty

775-246-3500 if you IM me your phone number I can have Michael call you too - just let me know best time to call.

Patty
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 8:28:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Randall_Rausch:
Thanks for reminding me about IN 'N OUT, I think I'll go there for lunch tomorrow...h,
Randall



I'm glad I could help you with your lunch decision hisAND my gun. hereabouts

Patty, Thanks for all the info. I sent you an IM.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 11:20:18 AM EDT
Unfortunately, that grip is NOT CA legal. Sorry for the confusion.
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