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Posted: 8/22/2006 9:24:43 AM EDT
Got it last week. I had a chrome SE bolt and carrier some years ago and the fit and finish was perfect. This one was iffy on the workmanship. There is a "D" inscribed on the left side of the carrier, kinda like a proof mark. This aroused my curiosity. I looked in the Brownells catalog and noticed that they also sold a DPMS chrome carrier, at a significantly lower price than the SE one.

Now, I also had a DPMS chrome carrier years ago and was not impressed by the chroming job or finish. The one I got last week looks eerily similar. So I called DPMS and they said yes, they use a "D" on the left side as their proof mark. So I then called Brownells and asked if perhaps a mistake was made (the stock number on the wrapper was the same as the number in the catalog for the SE one) and a DPMS carrier was placed into the wrong wrapper with the SE number on it. The guy says no, that in fact SE has been purchasing carriers from DPMS and selling them under their own name. I asked if I would have been better off ordering the DPMS one in the first place (not that I would have) because it's considerably cheaper and he says "yes".

WTF?!?!?!

What gives? Is SE not making their own chrome bolts and carriers anymore? How ethical is it to buy the DPMS shitty ones and re-sell them as your own (with the accompanying expectation of superior quality from SE) at a much higher price? This sounds like a load of BULLSHIT to me.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:35:18 AM EDT
I would return it. Brownell's is great about that and will go out of their way to make you happy.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:37:24 AM EDT
Okay, just got off the phone with Smith Enterprises. They claim that in fact Brownells has it backwards and that DPMS has bought carriers from them (SE)! The guy at SE also said that they made some chrome carriers for Delta Force (the catalog, not the unit) and that is probably where the "D" came from. He also said SE no longer makes chrome bolts/carriers anymore.

Something is rotten in fucking Denmark!!! The carrier actually looks like the piss-poor chroming and finish of the DPMS one I had years ago, not the SE one I had during the same time period. SOMEONE is blowing smoke and is full of shit. Question is who???
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:47:07 AM EDT
Again, I would return it if you are not happy with it and get a different set up. IIRC, LBC and JP make these as well.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:47:31 AM EDT
You are stressing way to much.
If you are not happy with it, return it to Brownells. Brownells will refund your money.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 10:21:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CavTex:
You are stressing way to much.
If you are not happy with it, return it to Brownells. Brownells will refund your money.


Maybe he'll listen to you...
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 10:43:05 AM EDT
It's a DPMS carrier...I fell for this too.

DPMS carriers don't come with chrome keys though, plus I got mine in M16 style.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 1:09:45 PM EDT
If you have to have a chrome carrier, I suggest a Young Mfg one. They are awesome.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:08:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spectre1:

Originally Posted By CavTex:
You are stressing way to much.
If you are not happy with it, return it to Brownells. Brownells will refund your money.


Maybe he'll listen to you...



Relax, it's going back tomorrow for a full refund (minus shipping I assume).

Yes, Brownells is refunding the money. However, it still is deceitful business to pull this kind of crap. The SE bolt/carrier setup I had about 10 years ago was flawless, a work of art in chrome! Just by looking closely at the carrier I could tell something was amiss, let alone the "D" engraved on it. The chrome was too shiny (SE's was duller and smoother), there was a discoloration on the chrome near the rear, numerous "scratches" in the finish, and a few machining flaws under the chrome. No, it definitely isn't a SE carrier.

SE, Brownells, and DPMS all seemed to be pointing the fingers at each other. This is not what I expect from the likes of Brownells.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:59:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4bangr:
If you have to have a chrome carrier, I suggest a Young Mfg one. They are awesome.


But who sells them?
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 5:03:35 PM EDT
DPMS to the best of my knowledge, does not machine their carriers to account for the chrome addition and as a result are "bigger", which results is shitty performance on occasion.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 8:41:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pretty_pony:

Originally Posted By M4bangr:
If you have to have a chrome carrier, I suggest a Young Mfg one. They are awesome.


But who sells them?


good question
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:07:35 PM EDT
I ordered a Smith Ent. chrome bolt carrier from Brownells.... and all I got was this lousy t-shirt. The "D" on the carrier is for DPMS, not Delta Force (although they do sell them).

TS
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:23:32 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By pretty_pony:
height=8
Originally Posted By M4bangr:
If you have to have a chrome carrier, I suggest a Young Mfg one. They are awesome.


But who sells them?

WWW.model1sales.com
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:36:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2006 9:36:51 PM EDT by twise]
Model 1 Sales

EDIT: oops, too slow on the draw
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:52:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spectre1:
I would return it. Brownell's is great about that and will go out of their way to make you happy.


You will get your shipping $$ back too... Both ways....
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 10:05:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:

Originally Posted By pretty_pony:

Originally Posted By M4bangr:
If you have to have a chrome carrier, I suggest a Young Mfg one. They are awesome.


But who sells them?


good question


MSTN
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 3:58:11 AM EDT
Is the only way to buy the Young Bolt carrier stripped trhough Model 1 sales? They have a complete bolt/carrier for $175, is that Model 1 or Young?
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 4:42:15 AM EDT
You will not get your shipping back. I recently returned a cheap repro part (tear drop fwd assist) that was advertised as OEM and received no shipping refund.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 10:53:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pretty_pony:
But who sells them?


It's been awhile since I got mine, but I believe I got it from Ameetec Arms. I think it comes without a carrier key.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 10:56:57 AM EDT
Mucho rebrading going on in the AR15 world. just return it. Brownells is great about returns. lifetime satisfaction guarentee actually.
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