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Posted: 8/15/2004 5:31:23 PM EDT
CAN ANY ONE ANSWER THIS FOR ME I AM IN THE PROCESS OF BUYING A NEW UPPER.
WHY DO SOME HAVE A REMOVEABLE CARRY HANDLE BUT HAVE A FIXED FRONT SITE? WONT THIS GET IN THE WAY OF A SCOPE MOUNTED ON THE UPPER WITH OUT THE CARRY HANDLE UNDER IT?

THANK YOU FOR ANY INPUT AND ANY PICTURES OF UPPERS OF ALL KIND OF CONFIGURATIONS.


JASON
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 5:55:14 PM EDT
Some reasons:

1. The fixed iron is stronger than any flip up.
2. If your optic go down, you don't have to flip anything up as your front sight is always there.
3. The front sight does not get in the way nearly as much as you would think. Most spaces allow for the post to be at the lower 1/3 of the optic.
4. Cowitnessing.
5. Cost. Good flip ups cost ~$200 not including install.

BTW you might want to lay off the CAPS. It is the internet equivalent to shouting.

Oh, and welcome to AR15.com
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 5:57:15 PM EDT
When the handle is removed the rear sight is the electronic optical that is installed used in conjunction with the front sight . When an indiv. wants scope only they purchase a riser to get above the front sight and to add reenforcement to the upper . If you know you will never want Irons again than it is ideal to replace the front sight with a milled version or gas block Etc. , Etc. most people prefer options if their batteries die or fubar occurs so they keep the handle or a flip up rear ap. with them.........
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 5:58:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 6:06:49 PM EDT
Most people have fixed front sights on their AR's because they come from the factory that way. The original Colt "Enhanced Rifle" (the first flat-top) had a front flip-up, but Uncle Sam's military is a bit too conservative and unimaginative to catch on. Why no telestock on the M-16A4?

Those of us who are somewhat more flexible have front flip-ups. Its only logical.

Optics are now the prime sighting system for any serious rifle. Iron sights are just there as back-ups. Prudent but probably never to be used, just like the spare tire in your trunk. And fixed irons DO get in the way of the sight picture, which could be fatal.

The YHM front flip-up/gas block only costs $80.
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 6:11:34 PM EDT
thanks for the input and the welcome yall im knew at this and not a very good typer and not to computer smart but i am trying


jnorton
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 6:29:44 PM EDT
I don't understand why you'd want a fixed front either, that's why my new A3 build will have a YHM folding front sight/gas block installed. If taking the time to filp up a front sight is going to get me killed then I'm in such deep dodo anyway that it won't matter one way or the other. I like the look of a flip up front and rear sight when used on an A3. Plus, using a low power scope(1-3x X20mm) that front sight would be a pain to look at thru the 1x scope. I guess it's more or less to each his own. If you like it then use it, I don't so I'll get a folding front.
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 6:58:46 PM EDT
I am also getting rid of the front sight. I plan on using an aimpoint most of the time. If my optic fails... then I will just grab the detach front sight (railed gas block) and my backup rear (probably LMT) from my range bag.
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 6:59:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2004 7:00:39 PM EDT by Winston_Wolf]
... potential for versatility

... and, welcome aboard - but lose the caps key
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 7:03:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gearjammer:
...but i am trying



We couldn't ask for anything more. Welcome!

As for a fixed front sight tower, I'm a firm believer in, "KISS and keep breathing."
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 7:08:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2004 7:09:18 PM EDT by Yojimbo]
In my case the fixed front sight does not interfere with the use of my EOTech 552, in fact I don't even notice the front sight when I'm shooting and as another benfit it saves me some money. I do however prefer a fold down rear BUIS so I got a ARMS 40a.

I think a lot depends on the kind of optics you will be using and also your personal preference.
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 7:09:50 PM EDT
hey 5-5-6: when someone is shooting at you are you gonna call "timeout, I need to run over to my range bag and bolt on some iron sights" Even at a carbine class you probably won't have time to bolt on some sights. Some instructors have been known to paint targets red to force you to use your back up sights.
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 9:07:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2004 9:11:27 PM EDT by AUT_BELLUM]
Because with BAC you(I) don't really notice the front site, it is just there, and even if the optic takes a shit you can still use the optic as a "ghost ring" and be reasonably accurate. But I prefer a flip up rear site. next setup will have front and rear folders(troy front for sure). an SPR with a real 'scope' front and rear folders for sure, because it is a 'sniper' type weapon.
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 9:13:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Welcome

cnorton basically covered the isssues.





He did do a nice job.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:41:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By infantryman:
hey 5-5-6: when someone is shooting at you are you gonna call "timeout, I need to run over to my range bag and bolt on some iron sights" Even at a carbine class you probably won't have time to bolt on some sights. Some instructors have been known to paint targets red to force you to use your back up sights.





If I ever decide to take any courses I will just leave the BUIS bolted on... I just prefer to have them off if Im shooting at my own pace on my land.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:43:10 AM EDT
Welcome aboard. 2 of our rifles have flip up front sights, the other 3 have fixed front posts. We found that the 2 flip ups tend to get flipped down when you don't want them too. So when I speced out the 3 newest rifles I ordered fixed front sights. All have flip up rear Bushmaster sights and EOTechs. We have found that the dots cowitness with the front sight, and you can either flip up the rear and keep it there all the time, or only flip it up when you want too. As others have said, if the dot goes down, use the window as a large ghost ring. But I wouldn't count on mounting sights or flipping up both a front and rear sight when the SHTF. When Mr. Murphy of Murphy's Law rears his ugly head, he does it at very bad times. If the dot goes down focus on the front sight and solve the problem. And practice with the iron sights.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 9:52:38 AM EDT
I've been giving this some more thought and I'm even stronger in my opinion of using a folding front sight on a rifle where an optic sight will be used 99% of the time. I just can't see how you could use a low power scope with a front sight sticking up blocking a good part of your view thru the scope. I know for me 99% of the shots taken(except for sighting in the BUIS) will be thru a scope or dot sight so irons and not going to be used much if at all. Keeping them down and out of the way not only gives you a better sight picture but also keeps them out of harms way until they're needed. It takes just a second to flip up the front sight and can be done at the same time as you flip up the rear sight so time isn't really a factor. If you are under that much pressure and your main optics go out your best bet is to point shoot your way to a less hot area rather then try to stand your ground and flip up your BUIS. I almost caved and went with the standard AR front but dang it, I want a folding front and I think it makes better sence for my use. If you just can't afford a folding front or if you just don't trust one then get the standard but my new "no ban" build will have both a front and rear folding sight with a low power varible scope(1.5-4.5x or there abouts) and I'll use the scope all of the time, low power for CQB and higher power for hunting/target shooting.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:21:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TNFrank:
I just can't see how you could use a low power scope with a front sight sticking up blocking a good part of your view thru the scope.



TNFrank,

Close your left eye and place your index finger about 4 inches in front of your right eye. Blocks the view right. Now leave your finger where it is and open your left eye?

Voila! Your finger kind of ghosts out and you can actually see the things that were blocked! This is how you need to use the red dot type optics, with binocular vision and a target focus. I would think this would be more of an isssue with magnified optics but a few people already posted how it worked just fine too.

I guess it really boils down to what works best for you. I'd defeinitely recommend trying out a fixed front sight and see how it works for before spending the money on flip down model.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:24:15 AM EDT
At around 4x magnification the front sight starts to shadow and obscure because it is not in the focal plane of the optic, going upwards from 4x and the front sight quickly starts to disappear.

The effect to the shooter can be mimic'd by staring at a distant object with both eyes but holding a finger out about 3-4 inches away from one of your eyes. You'll still see everything in your field of view but a slight shadow will appear over the objects you are viewing that are partially obscured by the finger being held infront of the other eye.

The effect is similar when using an full sight in front of the optic. You can still see the target and you can even see things that you would typically expect to be blocked by the front sight block, it's just that a slight "shadow" seems to appear over the area that the front sight covers.


I regularly use a 20inch A3 with full sight as a backup/loaner rifle for varminting and the scope typically used on it is a 6-24x target scope, front sight has never bothered me. Have also used the same rifle with other optics during 3 gun and action rifle matches, you can learn to see through the shadow with little difficulty.


Of all the upgrades I'd like to do to my rifles with the end of the federal nuisance this Sept., when I'm having my barrels threaded for flash suppressors I have no desire at all to replace the front sight with folding variants.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:25:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By five-five-six:
I am also getting rid of the front sight. I plan on using an aimpoint most of the time. If my optic fails... then I will just grab the detach front sight (railed gas block) and my backup rear (probably LMT) from my range bag.



That doesn't sounds like a very good plan for if you are using the rifle to defend yourself.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:39:03 AM EDT
kiss, keep it simple
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 12:10:35 PM EDT
I still can't figure out why people think they need an optic on a CQB weapon system. Or, why people that will never be executing dynamic entries or room clearings spend so much on a CQB weapon system. But, that's another topic.

Welcome. Stick with KISS!
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 1:15:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TeuffelHunden1775:
I still can't figure out why people think they need an optic on a CQB weapon system. Or, why people that will never be executing dynamic entries or room clearings spend so much on a CQB weapon system. But, that's another topic.

Welcome. Stick with KISS!



I'm building an AR in .300 Fireball for hunting and plinking mostly, CQB will be a very small part of what I do with that rifle. At a later date I'd like a suppressor for it if I can come up with the cost + $200 tax. Because I'll be using my scope 100% of the time(barring breakage) I feel that getting the sights out of the way will be a plus for this weapon. If(BIG IF) I were going into harms way I might just go with a non-folding(read-Standard)front sight but since I"m not I don't think that a folding front will be a bad thing, in fact it'll be better in my case.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:04:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2004 2:08:32 PM EDT by Yojimbo]

Originally Posted By TeuffelHunden1775:
I still can't figure out why people think they need an optic on a CQB weapon system. Or, why people that will never be executing dynamic entries or room clearings spend so much on a CQB weapon system. But, that's another topic.

Welcome. Stick with KISS!



It really gets on my nerves when people ask me to rationalize why I "need" something. It's a question right out the anti-gunners playbook.

Seriously, why do we need a car that can exceed the posted speed limit, why do we need such a big house, why do we need an AR15, blah, blah, blah...

If you don't understand why an optic is superior to iron sights than don't buy one. If you don't see why a weaponlight light is useful don't buy one.

Basically this is America so we can buy whatever we want just because we want it and just becasue we can.

TeuffelHunden1775, don't take my rant personally I just had to get it my chest...

Now back to our normally scheduled thread.
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