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Posted: 2/7/2006 11:40:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 12:27:23 PM EDT by MSTN]
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:42:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 11:43:28 AM EDT by eklikwhoa]
did he contact you before returning the item?

was the description clear that it might not fit non-colt uppers/bbls.?

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:43:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MSTN:
HE ORDERS A KAC M4 RAS AND PAYS WITH A CREDIT CARD.

NEW-IN-THE-BOX KAC M4 RAS FORENDS ARE VERY HARD TO FIND THESE DAYS, BTW. THIS IS/WAS THE FIRST I HAVE HAD IN YEARS.

THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCES A PROBLEM FITTING THE FOREND TO HIS RRA UPPER. KAC M4 RAS FORENDS ONLY FIT TRUE M4 CONTOUR BARRELS, 0.835" - 0.855" JUST AFT OF THE FRONT SIGHT TOWER. RRA BARRELS ARE SOMETHING ELSE.

WITHOUT CONTACTING ME, THE CUSTOMER RETURNS THE KAC M4 RAS FOREND, MINUS THE WHITE KAC RAS BOX. THE KAC FOREND SHOWS NO EXTERNAL WEAR, DEMANDING A FULL REFUND.

NOW, I AM LEFT WITH A SERVICEABLE BUT NO LONGER NEW KAC M4 RAS, WITH NO BOX.

I GUESS NEXT HE'LL WANT ME TO REFUND THE SHIPPING CHARGES NEXT.

WES GRANT
M.S.T.N.


put it back in the box he sent it to you in, and write "return to sender" on it with a note inside that says "all sales are final"
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:44:42 AM EDT
It's used, now. I'll give you $50 for it!

Probably not funny in your shoes right now, huh? Sorry to hear that.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:45:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 11:45:49 AM EDT by JustinOK34]
So you have a Like New, not in box KAC M4 RAS?

How much shipped??

Edit - I'm halfway serious, if the price is right, you might have problem solved. IM me if you don't want to list price.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:45:48 AM EDT
his clone optic mount probably wouldn't fit the rails either...

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:47:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MSTN:
HE ORDERS A KAC M4 RAS AND PAYS WITH A CREDIT CARD.

NEW-IN-THE-BOX KAC M4 RAS FORENDS ARE VERY HARD TO FIND THESE DAYS, BTW. THIS IS/WAS THE FIRST I HAVE HAD IN YEARS.

THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCES A PROBLEM FITTING THE FOREND TO HIS RRA UPPER. KAC M4 RAS FORENDS ONLY FIT TRUE M4 CONTOUR BARRELS, 0.835" - 0.855" JUST AFT OF THE FRONT SIGHT TOWER. RRA BARRELS ARE SOMETHING ELSE.

WITHOUT CONTACTING ME, THE CUSTOMER RETURNS THE KAC M4 RAS FOREND, MINUS THE WHITE KAC RAS BOX. THE KAC FOREND SHOWS NO EXTERNAL WEAR, DEMANDING A FULL REFUND.

NOW, I AM LEFT WITH A SERVICEABLE BUT NO LONGER NEW KAC M4 RAS, WITH NO BOX.

I GUESS NEXT HE'LL WANT ME TO REFUND THE SHIPPING CHARGES NEXT.

WES GRANT
M.S.T.N.




I'ld ship it back to him. I know you always have great customer service and have always taken care of me but that just isn't right to do to you.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:48:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 11:49:05 AM EDT by Blanco_Diablo]
Well you first turn the caps lock off.......
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:49:53 AM EDT
yeah send it back.


or let me know how much its going for "open box sale".
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:50:57 AM EDT
Do you have a "restocking fee" or some language on your site or invoices that requires the buyer to contact you first, return in saleable conditon, etc....?

That might cover you in the future?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:50:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:
Well you first turn the caps lock off.......



get the newb
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:56:07 AM EDT
Wes, If the guy wants a refund and you're inclined to give one, subtract a restocking fee and do not refund shipping. Most retail places won't even GIVE a refund unless you return the original packaging, and those that do usually charge a 15% or so restock fee.

<­table width=85% border=0>

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:
Well you first turn the caps lock off.......




You've been here a year and don't know about Wes and CapsLock?

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:56:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MSTN:
HE ORDERS A KAC M4 RAS AND PAYS WITH A CREDIT CARD.

NEW-IN-THE-BOX KAC M4 RAS FORENDS ARE VERY HARD TO FIND THESE DAYS, BTW. THIS IS/WAS THE FIRST I HAVE HAD IN YEARS.

THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCES A PROBLEM FITTING THE FOREND TO HIS RRA UPPER. KAC M4 RAS FORENDS ONLY FIT TRUE M4 CONTOUR BARRELS, 0.835" - 0.855" JUST AFT OF THE FRONT SIGHT TOWER. RRA BARRELS ARE SOMETHING ELSE.

WITHOUT CONTACTING ME, THE CUSTOMER RETURNS THE KAC M4 RAS FOREND, MINUS THE WHITE KAC RAS BOX. THE KAC FOREND SHOWS NO EXTERNAL WEAR, DEMANDING A FULL REFUND.

NOW, I AM LEFT WITH A SERVICEABLE BUT NO LONGER NEW KAC M4 RAS, WITH NO BOX.

I GUESS NEXT HE'LL WANT ME TO REFUND THE SHIPPING CHARGES NEXT.

WES GRANT
M.S.T.N.




Attempted installation voids your ability to do returns. However, I'd take it back and refund 85% of the new cost. Used gear is not returnable, period. That doesn't need to be stated.

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:57:34 AM EDT
The customer returning it without the box would piss me off.

I think it would be fair to give them a refund minus original shipping and the loss you would take when selling it as an out of box unit.

I would also think that depending on the situation you could refuse a refund since you are not getting the product back in the same condition as you sent it out(NIB).
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:59:11 AM EDT
+1 for charging restocking fee, damaged/handled goods, missing package and no shipping.


Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:00:36 PM EDT
What a cockholster.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:02:25 PM EDT
HOW LONG DID HE WAIT BEFORE HE SENT IT BACK?

i HAD SOMEONE EMAIL ME A FEW WEEKS AFTER I HAD SHIPPED THEM A RIFLE TO TELL ME THERE WAS A CRACK IN THE STOCK (WHICH WAS DEAD MINT WHEN I SHIPPED IT).

IF THERE IS A PROBLEM IT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED BY THE BUYER IMEDIATELY IMO.

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:04:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 12:05:29 PM EDT by Hokie]
HE'S A ONE TIME CUSTOMER (OBVIOUSLY) AND YOUR REP HERE IS SOLID. I'D GIVE HIM A REFUND LESS SHIPPING CHARGES UNLESS HE PRODUCES THE ORIGINAL BOX. UNFORTUNATELY YOU'LL HAVE TO RESELL THE RAS AT A DISCOUNTED PRICE. IF YOU WANTED TO REALLY STICK IT TO HIM, REFUND JUST ENOUGH TO ADEQUATELY COVER YOUR DISCOUNTED PRICE WHEN YOU DO RESELL IT.

THERE'S ALWAYS ONE SWIMMER WHO LEAVES A TURD IN YOUR POOL.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:04:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 12:05:28 PM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:11:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:13:56 PM EDT
I would inform the customer that the item is not in its original condition and belongs to him. However, you are willing to try and sell it for him if he likes. IMHO you would then be doing more than expected, since it would require your time to make the sale of this now used item without commission.

Unfortunately, I expect that you will never hear from him again and he has already asked his CC to refund payment.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:15:18 PM EDT
What a moron,when you have a part that does not fit you have to buy a gun that it will fit on. And as for waht bigbore said, i would look out for that CC chargeback.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:25:24 PM EDT
TAGGED FOR OUTCOME!
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:26:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:27:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:
Now wait for him to dispute the CC charge and stick you with the chargeback fee too.

I bet this guy has felt glued to his brass deflector to prevent marks.



I was fixing to say the same thing..... Would suck but its a fact you know its bound to happen.....

I woud never return something without contacting the dealer either. Sounds like a real idiot, especially for not returning the original packaging too.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:27:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 12:27:58 PM EDT by DrMark]

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:
Well you first turn the caps lock off.......



WELCOME TO ARFCOM.

[WES] WHAT IS THIS LOWER CASE YOU SPEAK OF? [/WES]



Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

However, I'd take it back and refund 85% of the new cost.



FIRST, I'D SEE IF YOU CAN RETURN THE BOX.

SECOND, I'D REFUND LESS A RE-STOCKING FEE, LIKE SHIVAN SAID. THAT WAY, YOU'RE GIVING HIM A REFUND (NOT "SCREWING HIM") BUT PROTECTING YOURSELF AS WELL. I WOULD HOPE THAT BY SELLING A BOXLESS BUT LIKE-NEW RETURN YOUR CAN COVER YOUR COSTS.


...ah, there's the Caps Lock.

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:28:37 PM EDT
Wes, you know you're screwed and the customer is always right. Refund him, resell the item, eat the loss and be happy your well deserved reputation has not been besmirched, even if unjustified.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:32:35 PM EDT
You can resell the RAS.

Refund his payment in full and wash your hands of him.

Is the time and frustration worth whatever you lose profit-wise?

Sometimes the most profitable course of action is to accept a loss and walk away instead of sinking MORE time into it.

Oh, and add the guy to your **** list. He calls to order again: "I'm sorry, I don't have that in stock. No, I won't take backorders. Have a nice day."
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:32:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 12:33:59 PM EDT by Stickman]
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:33:38 PM EDT
Sorry, I've never encountered MSTN here before. Doesn't mean I'm a n00b Sorry.

He didn't even contact you and then he demands a full refund? I'd send it back to him...
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:34:28 PM EDT
f'en asshat!


is he a member here?



i say good riddance and if c4igrant hadnt taken all my money i would have bought it off of you
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:37:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 12:39:45 PM EDT by Hokie]
NICELY DONE WES...

YOU SHOULD PROBABLY UPDATE YOUR 'RE: RETURNS' POLICY ON THE WEBSITE TO COVER YOUR SIX THE NEXT TIME SOME DUB ORDERS A PRODUCT.

WHAT'S FUNNY IS THAT SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T CONFIRM THEIR BARREL WILL ACCEPT A RAS, PROBABLY HAS NO BUSINESS WITH A RAILED HANDGUARD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

YOU SHOULD HAVE RECOMMENDED FIRST SAMCO.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:38:30 PM EDT
I'll just state this plain and simple:

I trust Wes enough that I'd still pay full price for this KAC M4 RAS if I was looking to buy one.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:38:43 PM EDT
Hell, I would have said taht I never got it.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:40:50 PM EDT
Handled that well. And no matter what he says, he'd be dragging your name through the mud with his co-workers even if you DID give him a full refund. And bragging about how he put the screws to you and made you give him the refund. Don't give him another red cent.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:46:48 PM EDT
30% restocking fee.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:47:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
I'll just state this plain and simple:

I trust Wes enough that I'd still pay full price for this KAC M4 RAS if I was looking to buy one.



When I need something from Wes I send him a list of stuff, a CC# and an address. I don't even bother to check his math.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:48:09 PM EDT
You don't have a sales or return policy posted on the website. Idiot proofing is an never ending task. I would suggest you add one.

Since this wanker fellow decided on his own to return it (no return authorization) and neglected to return it in an "as-shipped" state I think you'd be well within your rights to do the following:

1. Return it to him and tell him TS, you own it. (TS = Tough Situation)
2. Same as 1 except not until he provides a pre-paid shipping label or you charge for return shipping
3. Go through the drill of attempting to get the original KAC box and upon receipt refund his money minus a stocking fee for not contacting you before returning it.
4. Same as 2, add an additional processing/handling fee due to the failure to notify you prior to return.

Despite your lack of posted policy it is common knowledge/policy that you notify a vendor prior to returning an item. And that you may get charged for returning a non-defective item. Especially when your stupid and don't return the original packaging. I vote for 2. I can't see his credit card company letting a charge back fly on this one. Especially when the difference is him being unhappy or you declining to accept their card anymore.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:50:03 PM EDT
Wes,

Take your handguard put some scratches on it, scratch the name"Sgt Jones" on top and sell it on Ebay as a battle used m-4 handguard,, should fetch about $800.00...

In all honesty you did the right thing, not worth the hassle to fight over it with him. I would however, as stated above review your return policy and revamp it. You can always make slight exceptions to it later per individual and make that one time customer feel special that you broke the rules on the return just for him...

John
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:51:46 PM EDT
I say post his name so we all can ridicule his ass.

As for him being LE.......I would certainly not want him to serve nor protect me and mine. Obviously he is not conscience of the gear he uses. He is proabably the dispatcher......dis patch goes here, dis patche goes there...............
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:54:27 PM EDT
Time for an "Industry 'do not sell to'/blacklist"?

From the guy's email, he is very full of himself, and has doubtless screwed other vendors as well.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:54:47 PM EDT
I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT THATS THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS.

SOME MAROON WILL ALWAYS DEMAND TO COST YOU MONEY BECAUSE THEIR STUPIDITY IS BOUNDLESS.

I THINK THE WORST PART IS KNOWING THIS MAROON IS AN ALLEGED LEO, THE BEST PART IS KNOWING YOU ARE THE GUY WE ALREADY KNEW YOU WERE.

PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU FORWARD MR SUPERCOP DUMBASS THIS LINK.


Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:55:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 12:56:05 PM EDT by terrydavis]
Since he is Law Enforcement write a letter to his Chief of Police or Sheriff or whomever the head guy is and tell him your story. He brought it up, you didn't. In some places, if he was trying to intimidate you, is against the law. Best case it is a poor reflection of that department.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:59:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:05:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 2:02:52 PM EDT by redfisher]
Do you have a stated return policy?

If so, it is easy- stick to that

If not, and its a professional courtesy thing Charge him for shipping and restocking fees like 99% of all other dealers


I recall him asking how or if the KAC would fit a RRA

I do not blame the buyer for the mix up......shit does happen.....but the return biz is on him and he should expect to share the loss (of value)


IMHO, of course.


edit: I bother myself sometimes
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:07:03 PM EDT
OH HELL NO!!!!

Throwing the cop card should get his chief copied on this deal. That's clearly intimidation under color of authority on his part.

Or better yet post his name and department here. We'll take it from there!
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:08:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:
Well you first turn the caps lock off.......hr


That ain't NEVER gonna Happen. Tt is just his style, more or less is accepted here now.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:12:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 1:13:59 PM EDT by Duffy]
Ok you people, the first all caps response was funny, now it's just annoying I'll take all caps from Wes, but y'all yokels, turn the caps lock off

I say we vote our confidence in MSTN and Wes with our wallet. I'd buy the M4 RAS from you Wes, but I already have more uppers than I can use. How about a Colt piston driven monolithic upper? If you can get yer hands on one later, I'll pay you now and wait for it
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:16:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
Since he is Law Enforcement write a letter to his Chief of Police or Sheriff or whomever the head guy is and tell him your story. He brought it up, you didn't. In some places, if he was trying to intimidate you, is against the law. Best case it is a poor reflection of that department.



+1

Also be funny to find out if he wasn't a LEO and bust him for it.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:17:25 PM EDT
MSTN handled the problem just fine.............. no the customer is not always right. Before he takes food off my table, I asked to be treated fairly at the very least. Not returning original boxes with a product you expect a full refund on is rediculous.

I would suggest that MSTN change its return or refund policy to state " No refunds or returns without prior Authorization" No Exceptions ! This way the company can keep a handle on returned items and catch shipping problems early. Takes no time to give a customer an RA number & record the item and reason for return. It would be at this point that the customer can be again reminded that ALL original boxes & paperwork must accompany the returned item for full refund. Re-stocking fees will apply if the item is returned in a condition where it can not be sold as LNIB to the next customer.

Most people are fair and have common sense.........but some do not, and it is those people you have to make up "Rules of Engagement "

JF.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:21:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MSTN:

"Any "adjustment" other than a full refund will be fraudulent and considered theft."

"Be aware that I have already contacted my credit card company."

blah, blah, blah



That's ballsy stuff coming from a guy who sent the RAS back without its box.

This issue is worthy of a -1 thread, from you, in the EE. (Or at least a "neutral" thread.)
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