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Posted: 4/13/2017 10:42:10 AM EDT
I have compared the strike eagle, PST and the razor to one another yesterday. None of them are made in the USA. Strike eagle says made in China, PST says  made in the Philippines. And the razor says made in Japan. Any one of them a better plant then the other? Just because the razor is twice the price makes the quality better? I own a strike eagle and it seems better then my Burris mtac. Thoughts? Do they make anything in the US?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 10:47:57 AM EDT
Vortex worked closely with the manufacturer in China to get the quality that they wanted in their scopes. So there is high quality in all of them.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 10:48:05 AM EDT
Quoted:
I have compared the strike eagle, PST and the razor to one another yesterday. None of them are made in the USA. Strike eagle says made in China, PST says  made in the Philippines. And the razor says made in Japan. Any one of them a better plant then the other? Just because the razor is twice the price makes the quality better? I own a strike eagle and it seems better then my Burris mtac. Thoughts? Do they make anything in the US?
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No, the Japanese stuff is their best quality.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 10:48:20 AM EDT
Having owned a pst and soon to be buying a razor, I've looked through both and it wasn't even close to me.

The razor blew the pst I had away. I'm gladly dropping $1700 on a gen1 razor when the one I want is back in stock.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 10:50:26 AM EDT
Japan > Philippines > China
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 10:51:17 AM EDT
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Japan > Philippines > China
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this.  

I have been very impressed by the basic Viper model
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:02:46 AM EDT
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No, the Japanese stuff is their best quality.
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because it costs more?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:11:06 AM EDT
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because it costs more?
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Did all 3 seem to be the same quality to you?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:15:41 AM EDT
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because it costs more?
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It's much better glass, brighter illumination, more features, etc etc etc.  They cost more because it's more expensive to manufacture a higher quality scope.  The Razor Gen II's are considered on par with some of the very best European optics.  Their AMG series is entirely manufactured in the US I believe, but has very limited offerings right now.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:18:54 AM EDT
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because it costs more?
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No, the Japanese stuff is their best quality.
because it costs more?
Do some research on optics from the various countries and you'll see
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:24:33 AM EDT
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Did all 3 seem to be the same quality to you?
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because it costs more?
Did all 3 seem to be the same quality to you?
pst and strike eagle looked the same quality
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:36:47 AM EDT
"..because it costs more?"

No, because the ar15.com population has a bunch of collective experience regarding optics and this is the consensus.  You asked for thoughts and opinion, you got some.  They could be wrong, I happen to agree with them regarding which manufacturing Chinese vs. Japanese produces better scopes.

How important the difference in these scopes is to you only you can decide.

If you're mostly shooting 100yds at large paper targets using 10x magnification or less  in bright, clear daylight conditions you will be less likely to observe and experience the difference than someone who shoots 4" clays at 1000 yds with varying wind and visibility conditions.

My experience has been Chinese glass in general has improved greatly, but the mechanical quality and ruggedness not so much.  Vortex has taken extra care with their Chinese production which is not typical for much of the industry.

The Japanese scopes are better, across the board.  I own and use both.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:59:09 AM EDT
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It's much better glass, brighter illumination, more features, etc etc etc.  They cost more because it's more expensive to manufacture a higher quality scope.  The Razor Gen II's are considered on par with some of the very best European optics.  Their AMG series is entirely manufactured in the US I believe, but has very limited offerings right now.
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because it costs more?
It's much better glass, brighter illumination, more features, etc etc etc.  They cost more because it's more expensive to manufacture a higher quality scope.  The Razor Gen II's are considered on par with some of the very best European optics.  Their AMG series is entirely manufactured in the US I believe, but has very limited offerings right now.
All Of This.

Razor and AMG are extremely high quality optics.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 12:18:37 PM EDT
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pst and strike eagle looked the same quality
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If you really can't tell a difference, then you should get the Strike Eagle.  Then consider making an appointment with an optometrist.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 12:25:57 PM EDT
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"..because it costs more?"

No, because the ar15.com population has a bunch of collective experience regarding optics and this is the consensus.  You asked for thoughts and opinion, you got some.  They could be wrong, I happen to agree with them regarding which manufacturing Chinese vs. Japanese produces better scopes.

How important the difference in these scopes is to you only you can decide.

If you're mostly shooting 100yds at large paper targets using 10x magnification or less  in bright, clear daylight conditions you will be less likely to observe and experience the difference than someone who shoots 4" clays at 1000 yds with varying wind and visibility conditions.

My experience has been Chinese glass in general has improved greatly, but the mechanical quality and ruggedness not so much.  Vortex has taken extra care with their Chinese production which is not typical for much of the industry.

The Japanese scopes are better, across the board.  I own and use both.
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I wouldn't totally dismiss the possibility that a Chinese scope could be as good or better than a Japanese scope, even if that's almost never the case.  For example, some of the high-end Athlons or Sightrons are almost certainly better than budget Nikons.

But when you're only looking at one company's optics, it takes a serious level of cynicism to think that the only difference in their higher end models and budget models is the country of manufacture.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 12:59:23 PM EDT
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If you really can't tell a difference, then you should get the Strike Eagle.  Then consider making an appointment with an optometrist.
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i am an acog guy and the glass on a ta31f looks better then all three of these
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:17:28 PM EDT
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i am an acog guy and the glass on a ta31f looks better then all three of these
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The razor is pretty on par with my acogs from what I've seen. (Only fondled the razor a few times)
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:34:24 PM EDT
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i am an acog guy and the glass on a ta31f looks better then all three of these
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It probably is better than the Strike Eagle and Gen I Viper PST, though I doubt that's true of the Razor (though I admittedly haven't handled one) and the Gen II PST I played with is probably pretty comparable.  But the Strike Eagle and PST cost a fraction of an ACOG and the Razor offers much more versatility at a similar price.  FWIW, Browe's BCO, an ACOG clone, has meaningfully better glass than an ACOG (Schott glass), better tech and a titanium housing at a similar price point.

Regardless, whether an ACOG has better glass is completely irrelevant when it comes to the difference between the Viper PST and the Strike Eagle.  In addition to a number optics ranging from cheap Bushnells to nice hunting Swarovskis, I own a couple Viper PSTs and think they're pretty good glass for the money.  On the other hand, the Strike Eagles I've looked through were pretty awful, IMO, even considering the price.  You buy a Strike Eagle because you want a 1-6x optic with 5.56 drops and illumination but don't want to spend more than $300 - the only way to pack those features into a sub-$300 optic is low-grade glass and cheap manufacture.  Vortex can get those features into the PST line with better glass and quality control because the price is substantially higher.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:13:23 PM EDT
If you can't tell the difference buy the cheaper one.

More than likely you need to change how you're comparing them.  

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The razors are on par with just about anything on the market but most people don't need that.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:22:09 PM EDT
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The razors are on par with just about anything on the market but most people don't need that.
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Shhhh!

I've spent a good chunk of the last week explaining to my wife why I need to get the razor over anything else.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:45:35 PM EDT
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Shhhh!

I've spent a good chunk of the last week explaining to my wife why I need to get the razor over anything else.
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The razors are on par with just about anything on the market but most people don't need that.
Shhhh!

I've spent a good chunk of the last week explaining to my wife why I need to get the razor over anything else.
I'd like to replace my old nightforce with a razor. It's only money right?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:59:47 PM EDT
I am happy with the PST and Razor quality. Not happy with the SE. Yes, there is a difference when you get them outside.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 4:01:51 PM EDT
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I'd like to replace my old nightforce with a razor. It's only money right?
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The razors are on par with just about anything on the market but most people don't need that.
Shhhh!

I've spent a good chunk of the last week explaining to my wife why I need to get the razor over anything else.
I'd like to replace my old nightforce with a razor. It's only money right?
That's what I'm saying.

She asked me if the scope would cost more than the rifle.

-Yes.

How much more.

-yes.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 4:03:40 PM EDT
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because it costs more?
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The Japanese manufacture some of the best glass on the planet (from a quality control and material clarity standpoint).
camera lenses, scopes, binoculars.. they all use glass
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:44:54 PM EDT
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because it costs more?
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Well, Razors have been seen in use with a particular SMU (the 1-6x) and they're built like a brick shithouse.  The glass is absolutely phenomenal in them.  There's a reason the HDII has essentially taken over (from S&B) in competitive long range sniper comps and it's not simply because it "costs more" (even though they don't, compared to the other popular competition scopes).

ETA:  See any PSTs in there?

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Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:45:22 PM EDT
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pst and strike eagle looked the same quality
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I'm assuming you fondled them for a very short period of time indoors?  Even in those conditions, the Illumination on the 1-6x models should have been a dead giveaway.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:57:59 PM EDT
I have owned 2 Acog's and 2 Razor 1-6x's (On my second razor recently) and the glass on the razor to my eyes is better.

The vortex PST's are made in the Philippines and not China.

Philippines also happens to make some of the Burris XTR ll's except for the newer 1-8x24 34mm models which are made in Japan which I have also owned and the glass is on par with the Razor, With the razor taking a slight lead in glass quality.

The new Gen ll PST's are far Superior to the original generation 1's and I own three of those now.

Like other posters here have said you need to do more research or do more than just looking through them. The different qualities really show when you get under lowlight, and look for chromatic aberration and color contrast.

If you still can't tell any difference than I would buy the cheapest one, and I will second seeing an eye doctor after that because there is a huge difference.

You should be able to also notice difference  between optics from different manufacturers made in the same countries and factories.

I had a Japan made Eotech Vudu and when I compared it to my new vortex model PST gen ll which are still made in the Philippines but significantly improved, the vortex won out in light gathering.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:11:39 PM EDT
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because it costs more?
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maybe it costs more because of better quality components.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:27:31 PM EDT
Try looking through them outside when is getting dark while looking at something with fine detail.

This is where you will really see a difference in quality.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:33:10 PM EDT
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Try looking through them outside when is getting dark while looking at something with fine detail.

This is where you will really see a difference in quality.
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It's pretty damn easy to see the difference in a PST and a Strike Eagle in perfect conditions, IMO.  Low-light conditions, not even in the same universe.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 2:52:54 AM EDT
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I'm assuming you fondled them for a very short period of time indoors?  Even in those conditions, the Illumination on the 1-6x models should have been a dead giveaway.
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pst and strike eagle looked the same quality


I'm assuming you fondled them for a very short period of time indoors?  Even in those conditions, the Illumination on the 1-6x models should have been a dead giveaway.
LOL...Jeff is right.

No way a Strike Eagle look the same as a Razor. Glass quality is like comparing a digital TV to a true High Definition 1080p, the difference is noticeable. That's not even considering illumination, focus, clarity at long distance, etc.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 2:12:31 PM EDT
We live in a great time to be a firearms in enthusiast we have the benefit of all kinds of choices from mundane budget objects that will still get the job done for most civilian shooters to exotic optics that are incredible pieces of engineering. I think that the wide price range that comes with having so many choices available frustrates some people who emotionally want to feel that they've bought the best gear yet can't afford to spend thousands on an optic. I think some of those people are even immature enough to lash out about the situation and make BS claims regarding how there is no difference between a $300 optic and a $1, 500 optic. Personally I consider myself fortunate to have so many choices available. We're lucky to live to in the greatest country in the world in America if we don't like the optic or anything else in life our budget affords us we have all tools available to us learn any new skill and become anything we please we can literally pick any income we wish and aspire to it. God bless the USA and I'm intolerant of this "because it cost more" attitude and false info OP the Razor is a much higher quality optic than the Strike Eagle or PST.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 4:27:51 PM EDT
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We live in a great time to be a firearms in enthusiast we have the benefit of all kinds of choices from mundane budget objects that will still get the job done for most civilian shooters to exotic optics that are incredible pieces of engineering. I think that the wide price range that comes with having so many choices available frustrates some people who emotionally want to feel that they've bought the best gear yet can't afford to spend thousands on an optic. I think some of those people are even immature enough to lash out about the situation and make BS claims regarding how there is no difference between a $300 optic and a $1, 500 optic. Personally I consider myself fortunate to have so many choices available. We're lucky to live to in the greatest country in the world in America if we don't like the optic or anything else in life our budget affords us we have all tools available to us learn any new skill and become anything we please we can literally pick any income we wish and aspire to it. God bless the USA and I'm intolerant of this "because it cost more" attitude and false info OP the Razor is a much higher quality optic than the Strike Eagle or PST.
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What he said.

QFT.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 12:26:08 AM EDT
Razor over the pst or SE without a doubt, I hope to see Vortex extend their AMG line one day and come out with a 1-6 that is under 18 oz. They said they plan to in the coming years but didn't comment on what magnification range it would be.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 1:28:24 AM EDT
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Razor over the pst or SE without a doubt, I hope to see Vortex extend their AMG line one day and come out with a 1-6 that is under 18 oz. They said they plan to in the coming years but didn't comment on what magnification range it would be.
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Agreed, if the Razor 1-6 was 5-8oz lighter, I'd probably own 3 or 4 of them.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 2:40:28 AM EDT
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Agreed, if the Razor 1-6 was 5-8oz lighter, I'd probably own 3 or 4 of them.
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If it was 5-8oz lighter I never would have sold mine. 
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 3:02:51 AM EDT
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If it was 5-8oz lighter I never would have sold mine. 
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Yep, only reason I ditched the one I owned.  Balance was all fucked up, even with a decently light handguard and a Faxon Gunner 14.5" barrel.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 4:24:31 AM EDT
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Yep, only reason I ditched the one I owned.  Balance was all fucked up, even with a decently light handguard and a Faxon Gunner 14.5" barrel.
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The Vx6 is rather comparable IMO. 20% worse in glass, FOV, illumination and reticle. Only 14.5 oz however and the illumination is still daylight visible. 
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 5:44:38 AM EDT
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i am an acog guy and the glass on a ta31f looks better then all three of these
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agree. It is Jap glass.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 10:21:56 AM EDT
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The Vx6 is rather comparable IMO. 20% worse in glass, FOV, illumination and reticle. Only 14.5 oz however and the illumination is still daylight visible. 
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I went with a TA33 instead.  
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 10:26:49 AM EDT
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The Vx6 is rather comparable IMO. 20% worse in glass, FOV, illumination and reticle. Only 14.5 oz however and the illumination is still daylight visible. 
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The new HD 1-6 is 13.4 oz.  I have one and seems well built.  Just wish the illumination was a little brighter. Otherwise it's awesome.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 10:27:13 AM EDT
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Having owned a pst and soon to be buying a razor, I've looked through both and it wasn't even close to me.

The razor blew the pst I had away. I'm gladly dropping $1700 on a gen1 razor when the one I want is back in stock.
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My razor is worlds better than my pst.

But also $1k more.

It's not just the glass you are paying for but the mechanics. Tracking and accurate adjustments make a big difference at 1,000y.

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ETA. My 2.5-10x32 pst is just as bright as my acog. The acog has great glass but it's a smidge under the quality of my razor.

The mile high sale on the razor / spuhr mount is a no brainer.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 10:44:17 AM EDT
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i am an acog guy and the glass on a ta31f looks better then all three of these
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If you really can't tell a difference, then you should get the Strike Eagle.  Then consider making an appointment with an optometrist.
i am an acog guy and the glass on a ta31f looks better then all three of these
Browe BCO's glass is better than a TA31's glass. It also has better technology.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 1:30:54 PM EDT
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My razor is worlds better than my pst.

But also $1k more.

It's not just the glass you are paying for but the mechanics. Tracking and accurate adjustments make a big difference at 1,000y.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/164007/IMG-1869-187804.JPG

ETA. My 2.5-10x32 pst is just as bright as my acog. The acog has great glass but it's a smidge under the quality of my razor.

The mile high sale on the razor / spuhr mount is a no brainer.
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Waiting on the next shipment of razors to come in.

Hoping soon.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 2:14:38 PM EDT
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Waiting on the next shipment of razors to come in.

Hoping soon.
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MIL/MIL ?
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 12:21:45 AM EDT
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I went with a TA33 instead.  
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I just bought a used Ta33 to try out since ARFCOM rants and raves so much about them. What I'm finding is the BAC for CQB is not so easy for me because of how much better my right eye is. I am so right eye dominant if I try to shoot with my left eye through any optic, I find my brain would rather see the right eye's side profile of the rifle more than through the optic on my left eye. I'm considering putting up a trade ad on the EE for a 4x NSN model for my Block I clone.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 12:30:37 AM EDT
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MIL/MIL ?
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Yep. Mrad.
Link Posted: 4/17/2017 12:03:54 AM EDT
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Yep. Mrad.
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MIL/MIL ?
Yep. Mrad.
I had them put me on the list when they get more. They said they had them in order but unsure of eta.
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