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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:44:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 12:44:31 PM EDT by Nasty_Nate]
Consulted a gun shop today and asked about a DPMS lower and RRA Upper combo and the old guy tells me RRA is the worst choice. Should I believe this??
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 12:45:08 PM EDT
Uhh, no.. RRA is a good choice.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 12:49:35 PM EDT
Didnt think so.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 12:59:03 PM EDT
RRA is a good choice...dealer must not know very much about AR's.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:04:51 PM EDT
Ahhh, more gunshop wisdom.

Or wait, is that more like a lack thereof?

RRA is some good stuff. Your gunstore guy is a dumbass.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:10:30 PM EDT
Yes Im wondering about overall service then. people who are full of it are usually ripoffs too.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:13:15 PM EDT
My dealer hates RRA he told me the place was a joke. Something about the owner and him having a fall out. I was suprised to see so many people like them on AR15.com. I have seen some and they look great to me.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:22:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSheppard:
My dealer hates RRA he told me the place was a joke. Something about the owner and him having a fall out. I was suprised to see so many people like them on AR15.com. I have seen some and they look great to me.



Sounds like your dealer is a dumbass.


R
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:24:27 PM EDT
Usually, if a gunshop doesn't like a certain brand that's successful, it means either he or his distributor doesn't carry that brand. If you choose that brand, and they don't offer their line, he of course doesn't get the sale. Therefor, he tries his best to sell you on a product he carries, so he can get a chunk out of your wallet.

Simple business.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:29:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Usually, if a gunshop doesn't like a certain brand that's successful, it means either he or his distributor doesn't carry that brand. If you choose that brand, and they don't offer their line, he of course doesn't get the sale. Therefor, he tries his best to sell you on a product he carries, so he can get a chunk out of your wallet.

Simple business.



So simple! so blunt! So gosh darn sensible to the shrewd.

Too bad "business" isnt just saying "hey buddy, I dont carry RRA but I do carry ______ which is also good."
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:34:07 PM EDT
My next AR will be a RRA but I won't tell him. He is nice guy but kinda crazy.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:51:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nasty_Nate:

Too bad "business" isnt just saying "hey buddy, I dont carry RRA but I do carry ______ which is also good."



Don't get me wrong, some do, but your average corner gun store usually has an excuse and not a truthful reason for carrying a certain brand.

Anyways, you can buy RRA with confidence.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:54:50 PM EDT
I have an RRA lower and am satisfied with it. I've little to no interest in their butstocks or barrels though. That is a configuration/specification issue rather than a quality issue.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:58:47 PM EDT
My RRA bolt assembly is every bit as good as my Bushmasters, same goes for my RRA lower.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 2:00:03 PM EDT
Thanks all!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 2:03:13 PM EDT
Well, I thought RRA was a good choice, bought a lower with their 2 stage trigger,
assembled by their factory.

Junk. Failures to function, sloppy trigger pull, never did find the second
stage, just one long sloppy creepy trigger pull.

Cost me another bunch of cash to fix what I paid a premium to get.

So, here's at least one unhappy RRA customer and I won't be buying another.

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 2:10:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Well, I thought RRA was a good choice, bought a lower with their 2 stage trigger,
assembled by their factory.

Junk. Failures to function, sloppy trigger pull, never did find the second
stage, just one long sloppy creepy trigger pull.

Cost me another bunch of cash to fix what I paid a premium to get.

So, here's at least one unhappy RRA customer and I won't be buying another.



RRA warranty wouldn't cover it??? RRA's two stage is supposed to be pretty good, but I wouldn't call it premium. I do think it's messed up they made you pay to fix it though.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:10:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I have an RRA lower and am satisfied with it. I've little to no interest in their butstocks or barrels though. That is a configuration/specification issue rather than a quality issue.




What's with their buttstocks?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:24:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 4:24:44 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
Their 6 pos. butstocks work just great, so long as you never try to put a Crane or VLTOR stock on the tube. It won't fit. Colt, LMT and VLTOR produce the proper size extension. I prefer those stocks.

In my experience, the RRA NM triggers fail. 1 at 2k rounds, 1 at 1.5k or so. Mostly its failure to reset, although to tell you the truth the fact that the first stage turned into slack and the second stage discharged with under 1/2# of pressure is almost as bothersome as the weapon firing when jolted.....even when the selector is on safe!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:32:27 PM EDT
Crap! I've got one on the way, should be here on Tuesday. This is the first I'd heard of this or else I wouldn't have gotten it. Dammit!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:54:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Badkennedy:
Crap! I've got one on the way, should be here on Tuesday. This is the first I'd heard of this or else I wouldn't have gotten it. Dammit!



I wouldn't worry about it. They produce a fine weapon, and if you have a problem, I am SURE that they will make it good (if they know about it). I haven't had any problem out of the 6 I have owned/dealt with.

However, they are human, and I am sure that an occasional problem pops up.

I also like their stocks. Cheap and effective. It isn't that big of a deal to buy a new tube down the road if you feel like putting on a Vltor or such. I personally don't see the need to spend that kind of cash for just a stock. The RRA stock does what is needed for about 1/4-1/3 the price.

YMMV
Doc
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:16:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 5:17:28 PM EDT by The_Accuser]
I have aquired a number of Rock River rifles over the past four years and each look fantastic and function flawless. Some came as complete rifles and others are special builds done by dealers in the Industry forums. Any dealer that tells you Rock River products are bad is an idiot!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:18:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DocGP:

Originally Posted By Badkennedy:
Crap! I've got one on the way, should be here on Tuesday. This is the first I'd heard of this or else I wouldn't have gotten it. Dammit!



I wouldn't worry about it. They produce a fine weapon, and if you have a problem, I am SURE that they will make it good (if they know about it). I haven't had any problem out of the 6 I have owned/dealt with.

However, they are human, and I am sure that an occasional problem pops up.

I also like their stocks. Cheap and effective. It isn't that big of a deal to buy a new tube down the road if you feel like putting on a Vltor or such. I personally don't see the need to spend that kind of cash for just a stock. The RRA stock does what is needed for about 1/4-1/3 the price.

YMMV
Doc



I want to tag a DPMS lower on a RRA upper half... Im in the clear right!???
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:30:05 PM EDT
Never had a Problem with my RRA trigger or from the couple of dozen that have I have sold.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:16:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nasty_Nate:
the old guy tells me RRA is the worst choice. Should I believe this??



No
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:18:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
In my experience, the RRA NM triggers fail. 1 at 2k rounds, 1 at 1.5k or so.



In my experience, RRA NM triggers have gone over 3500 rounds, and still show no indications of wear.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:36:36 PM EDT
My shop doesnt carry the RRA line. Its not for quality, and we do NOT bash the product. In fact, RRA is damn good. However, the problem is dealing directly with RRA as a company. From our experience they are not dealer friendly, and we deal with everyone.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:37:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nasty_Nate:

Originally Posted By DocGP:

Originally Posted By Badkennedy:
Crap! I've got one on the way, should be here on Tuesday. This is the first I'd heard of this or else I wouldn't have gotten it. Dammit!



I wouldn't worry about it. They produce a fine weapon, and if you have a problem, I am SURE that they will make it good (if they know about it). I haven't had any problem out of the 6 I have owned/dealt with.

However, they are human, and I am sure that an occasional problem pops up.

I also like their stocks. Cheap and effective. It isn't that big of a deal to buy a new tube down the road if you feel like putting on a Vltor or such. I personally don't see the need to spend that kind of cash for just a stock. The RRA stock does what is needed for about 1/4-1/3 the price.

YMMV
Doc



I want to tag a DPMS lower on a RRA upper half... Im in the clear right!???



Nate,

I have never owned a DPMS lower, but I have put RRA uppers on RRA, Bushmaster, and AMEETEC lowers with no problems. All have run like clocks. I wouldn't sweat the DPMS lower either. You'll be fine.

Doc
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:01:42 PM EDT
I would say, better than 90% of the AR's on the line at Camp Perry this year were RRA. I know the Navy Marksmanship Team just purchased about 100.

Dave
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:26:46 PM EDT
A big +1 for RRA

Great product great prices
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:39:38 PM EDT
I'm new to these boards and to AR's in general. I bought a RRA Varminter this past spring and it's the most accurate rifle I own. With my hand loads, I can routinely shoot in the .4's at 100 yds.

One thing I will say though, is that my particular rifle dose not like lead tipped bullets, the tips of the bullets get damaged during the firing cycle and also are liable to jam. However, polymer tipped bullets, FMJ's and JHP's all cycle flawlessly. For what it's worth, I think the RRA's are just fine.

phatjohn
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:50:58 PM EDT
RRA is good stuff. I have an upper. Very nice.

I can't vouche for the triggers. I have a mega lower with whatever LP kit that was installed at MEGA I suppose.

I have had zero problems out of my mutt.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 10:03:02 PM EDT
I've had two and they were perfect.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 12:33:10 AM EDT
Right now I have six complete rifles and three lowers waiting for for uppers, all RRA. Two lowers are NM and the rest are standard,

I have never had one problem, the NM two stage triggers are outstanding. One NM was at 2.4 lbs let off whne i got it (digital scale) and after 1500 rounds is at 2.2 lbs. THer other has not been checked, no upper on it yet.

The service staff at RRA is top notch, I deal with them all of the time. The delivery on uppers is quoted at 6 to 8 weeks, my average delivery time is 6 weeks, one came in at 4 weeks and one was at 9 weeks (DD rail, they had to wait on DD to ship more rails).

I am not a dealer, just have an expensive hobby, like all of us here, and I have delt with a lot of different manufacturers, and I can assure you, no one even comes close to the RRA service.

Met the staff and technicians at the NRA-Houston show this past April, wonderful people to talk to and had a good display of their line.

To answer your question: No.

There is only one gun store I deal with and I trust them. There is a store in a big city near me that I went into in January, asked if they carry RRA, store worker said RRA is only selling to goverment, cannot sell to the public, I noded, smiled and walked out.

I can assure you, you will not go wrong. The comment above about Camp Perry is true. My close friend and shooting buddy was there and came back with the same stastics.

77Bronc
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 12:52:40 AM EDT
My RRA NM 2-stage failed within 500 rounds, but the customer service was outstanding. It was quick, easy and free to fix. I feel better about RRA now than I did before the problem occurred. And the fit/finish of my Varmint 16 is excellent, an absolute tackdriver.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:31:59 AM EDT
your good to go with RRA. I have 3 and never had any trouble with any of them
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:44:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CFII:
My shop doesnt carry the RRA line. Its not for quality, and we do NOT bash the product. In fact, RRA is damn good. However, the problem is dealing directly with RRA as a company. From our experience they are not dealer friendly, and we deal with everyone.



Crossed my mind that manufacturer to dealer service was off. could have been what the the guy was actually urked by.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:11:51 AM EDT
I can vouch for the following RRA products that I have purchased and personally used.

Chrome lined midlength barrel, A2 upper receiver, flattop upper receiver, LPK's, lower receivers, entry stock, 6-pos stock, complete bolt and carrier, 16" varmint complete upper, NM SS barrel, 9mm complete upper, 9mm buffer, m4 entry tactical upper, and I could keep on going.

RRA is second to none when it comes to quality, and their prices beat Bushmaster, Armalite, and Colt hands down. I have never had any problems with any of RRA products, I can highly recommend them as can many others.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:27:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:41:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:50:47 AM EDT
RRA products are garbage!!! RRA is a POS like COLT J/K

In all seriousness, Our Government trust them, why shouldn't we?

The RRA DEA Carbine has been deployed to a good portion of our federal agency divisions...

The Colt Carbine has also been deployed to many federal agency divisions and is their primary weapon, very similar to the RRA set-up...


News Release:

December 5, 2003

DEA Awards 5 Year Contract to Rock River Arms.

(Colona, IL)…Rock River Arms has the reputation for producing top quality AR15s and custom 1911s. What sets Rock River Arms apart from the competition is their versatility to produce weapons to such rigorous specifications.

Many elite AR15 manufacturers submitted weapons for approval but fell short during the abuse test, which was the initial phase of testing. Rock River Arms AR15 .223/5.56 NATO met the requirements and specifications set forth by DEA. The abuse test consisted of the parts interchange test, the extreme temperature test, the drop test, the throw test and the corrosion test. In the parts interchange test, the carbines were field stripped. The major component parts were randomly interchanged and reassembled. Each carbine was then loaded and fired and had to perform without malfunction. During the extreme temperature test, the carbines were placed in a chamber and stabilized at a temperature of minus 20° F for one hour. Then the weapons were removed and immediately fired at room temperature. Then the carbines were placed in a temperature chamber where it was stabilized at 120° F for one hour then removed and immediately fired at room temperature. The weapon then moved on to the drop test from a height of 4 feet and dropped onto a concrete floor six different times on all sides of the carbine. After completing the drop safety test, the weapon was loaded and had to safely fire 20 rounds with no malfunction to pass. The throw test consisted of throwing the firearm from a height of four feet and over a distance of 15 feet, once on the right side and once on the left side, then must safely fire 20 rounds with no malfunction. It was then submerged in salt water and exposed to sand. After both tests the weapon had to function flawlessly.

Rock River Arms was one of the selected few that outperformed the other manufacturers and moved on to phase two of the testing. Phase two was the 5,000 round endurance/functional reliability test. The testing team consisted of members of the DEA and FBI Firearms Training Unit and the DEA and FBI armorers/gunsmiths. The team also tested for accuracy, dispersion and velocity.

Rock River Arms is supplying the DEA with their AR15 chambered in .223/5.56 NATO, equipped with an Eo Tech holo sight, a Surefire rail and white light, a Viking sling and an Eagle Industry carry case. The DEA awarded Rock River Arms the contract, followed by a substantial purchase order. The initial order will be delivered this month.

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:38:17 AM EDT
RRA winning the DEA contract and a recomendation by a friend of mine serving in the CENTCOM theater are the reasons I chose to order a RRA middy. Mine will basiclly be like the DEA Govt. model in a mid length car. I already have the Eotech sight and plan on getting a tac light later. I'm patiently waiting for another 4 - 8 weeks for it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:55:07 AM EDT
An RRA Entry Tactical serves as my work gun. It protects my life and the people I am hired to protect. 100% confidence in my weapon.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:56:39 AM EDT
Rock River is a very good choice
imo
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:57:46 AM EDT
Right now RRA seems to consistently be making just about the highest quality and trouble free AR on the market. You rarely hear of any issues w/ RRA. While Bushy and Colt do seem to have far more troubles. However they are selling more rifles than RRA. RRA is top notch stuff though. Dont hesitate to buy it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:31:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Accuser:
I have aquired a number of Rock River rifles over the past four years and each look fantastic and function flawless. Some came as complete rifles and others are special builds done by dealers in the Industry forums. Any dealer that tells you Rock River products are bad is an idiot!



Or maybe not....as maybe...just like a lot of other folks who years ago when RRA just started out jumped and purchased RRA products got shipped a royal POS....especially gun shop owners and dealers who purchased "Quantity Orders" to offer their customers rock bottom prices and "Sell Rifles" only to have the ups guy deliver them thousands of dollars worth of freshly manufactured RRA AR-15's that were absolute garbage...with a large percentage displaying major "FUNCTIONING ISSUES"...then the gun shop owners found they just staked their livelyhood on a rack full of POS AR's...compliments of RRA...as RRA put out so much crap thier warranty repair became a non-option.....as they were so backed up it was like kissing your RRA AR goodbye....for....EVER...due to a gigantic backlog of "return for repairs"...and woe be to the lowly gun shop dealer who staked his fate on RRA's folley.....at least that's the story one small gun show dealer who sold me a slightly used, very disfunctional RRA for $400 relayed to me about 10 years ago....

Get this...the trigger absolutely suxed....real bad...as long and gritty as anything I ever pulled including those found on $25 imported pellet rifles annnnd....the bolt absolutely would'nt lock back....at all....and he was sad to take $400 for it but happy to see it go....I got it home, fired up my compressor, broke out my stones and went to work...the bolt wouldn't retract far enough to allow the bolt catch to rise and lock the bolt back...and to this day I'm not certain what the root cause of this was as I didn't have a spec manual but I could see where it could've been the buffer assy was too long or?...the buffer tube was too short?...or the bolt catch was machined/positioned too far towards the rear in the lower or?...that the bolt catch had just never been properly fitted (not even knowing if fitting such is an expected requirement) but...it was only missing clearing the bolt lug face by .010-.015" or so...so I broke out my punch set...removed the bolt catch and...set it up in a machinist vise and flat filed and stone smoothed .020" off the face of the bolt catch (to facilitate proper clearance and viola...I got the bolt catch to work and funtion properly..the I went to work on re-shaping, stoning, and polishing the trigger/hammer/sear face/disconnector lock works and in the end?...wound up with a pretty decent $400 beater which I sold a year later for $700...with a case of ammo and a few mags.

However....that was many years ago...and as I hear it?...RRA has greatly improved their QC "lately"...but had they not done so?...imho and from what I saw/heard/experienced?...we wouldn't even be discussing them today had RRA continued to do biz as usual...however...first impressions are lasting impressions...and in the early going?....RRA left many with a bad taste in their mouth....especially the long term gunshop owners who got burned with multiple unsat RRA units years lingering in their racks years ago...so....even though RRA seems to have straightened out their act recently?...maybe the old gunshop owners who "remember when" aren't so dumb afterall....they still just "Remember When".

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:05:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:

Originally Posted By The_Accuser:
I have aquired a number of Rock River rifles over the past four years and each look fantastic and function flawless. Some came as complete rifles and others are special builds done by dealers in the Industry forums. Any dealer that tells you Rock River products are bad is an idiot!



Or maybe not....as maybe...just like a lot of other folks who years ago when RRA just started out jumped and purchased RRA products got shipped a royal POS....especially gun shop owners and dealers who purchased "Quantity Orders" to offer their customers rock bottom prices and "Sell Rifles" only to have the ups guy deliver them thousands of dollars worth of freshly manufactured RRA AR-15's that were absolute garbage...with a large percentage displaying major "FUNCTIONING ISSUES"...then the gun shop owners found they just staked their livelyhood on a rack full of POS AR's...compliments of RRA...as RRA put out so much crap thier warranty repair became a non-option.....as they were so backed up it was like kissing your RRA AR goodbye....for....EVER...due to a gigantic backlog of "return for repairs"...and woe be to the lowly gun shop dealer who staked his fate on RRA's folley.....at least that's the story one small gun show dealer who sold me a slightly used, very disfunctional RRA for $400 relayed to me about 10 years ago....

Get this...the trigger absolutely suxed....real bad...as long and gritty as anything I ever pulled including those found on $25 imported pellet rifles annnnd....the bolt absolutely would'nt lock back....at all....and he was sad to take $400 for it but happy to see it go....I got it home, fired up my compressor, broke out my stones and went to work...the bolt wouldn't retract far enough to allow the bolt catch to rise and lock the bolt back...and to this day I'm not certain what the root cause of this was as I didn't have a spec manual but I could see where it could've been the buffer assy was too long or?...the buffer tube was too short?...or the bolt catch was machined/positioned too far towards the rear in the lower or?...that the bolt catch had just never been properly fitted (not even knowing if fitting such is an expected requirement) but...it was only missing clearing the bolt lug face by .010-.015" or so...so I broke out my punch set...removed the bolt catch and...set it up in a machinist vise and flat filed and stone smoothed .020" off the face of the bolt catch (to facilitate proper clearance and viola...I got the bolt catch to work and funtion properly..the I went to work on re-shaping, stoning, and polishing the trigger/hammer/sear face/disconnector lock works and in the end?...wound up with a pretty decent $400 beater which I sold a year later for $700...with a case of ammo and a few mags.

However....that was many years ago...and as I hear it?...RRA has greatly improved their QC "lately"...but had they not done so?...imho and from what I saw/heard/experienced?...we wouldn't even be discussing them today had RRA continued to do biz as usual...however...first impressions are lasting impressions...and in the early going?....RRA left many with a bad taste in their mouth....especially the long term gunshop owners who got burned with multiple unsat RRA units years lingering in their racks years ago...so....even though RRA seems to have straightened out their act recently?...maybe the old gunshop owners who "remember when" aren't so dumb afterall....they still just "Remember When".

L8R, Bill.



I'm calling

I've got 7 gun dealers within 30 minutes of my front door. 3 out 7 have dropped all other brands and only sell RRA. RRA sells out with every shipment. Waiting lists are still long. No one sits a 14 week waiting list for a shitty product

The dealers love RRA because it isnt inventory collecting dust. A DEA contract, nothing but positive reviews and huge consumer backed momentum means RRA will do big volume on a regular basis.

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:11:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
<snip>.....at least that's the story one small gun show dealer who sold me a slightly used, very disfunctional RRA for $400 relayed to me about 10 years ago....

<snip>
L8R, Bill.






Guess what.

RRA didn't make rifles 10 years ago.

Foot, meet Mouth.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:47:03 PM EDT
I nominate Fuz1on for the bullshit of the year award. His remarks on his stoning, reshaping of the sear etc. speaks for itself. Ten years ago huh? Dealer at a gun show? Your post is laughable as is your gunsmithing, however you do reinforce the bads of buying used rifles from gun show dealers and the real possibility that they could have been "worked on" by someone like yourself.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:57:40 PM EDT
Damn FUZION got OWNED.





Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
<snip>.....at least that's the story one small gun show dealer who sold me a slightly used, very disfunctional RRA for $400 relayed to me about 10 years ago....

<snip>
L8R, Bill.






Guess what.

RRA didn't make rifles 10 years ago.

Foot, meet Mouth.

WIZZO

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:29:08 PM EDT
Keeeeerist!!!....I did say "ABOUT" 10 years ago and you guys may be right...maybe it wasn't "EXACTLY" that long ago...I wasn't looking at a freaking calender when I replied...or when I took ownership of that particular arm...and my chronology may be a bit off...but my story isn't...and it's definantly NOT in any way, shape or form..."BS". I should just edit the words "About 10 Years Ago" to "Quite Some While Ago"...outside of that?...whatever ya wanna believe...long as it make ya feel good.

L8R, Bill.

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