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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/24/2003 12:59:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2003 12:22:05 PM EDT by PhillipKP]
Everytime I got to the range and "unload" about 3 magazines I have to sit for 10 minutes while my barrel cools. I was thinking about bringing a water sprayer to cool it down.

What do you guys think? Good idea or Bad Idea?

Edited to add:

The reason I want my barrel to cool is I want to pack it in my rifle caarry case. I don't feel like melting that foam and the case itself.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 1:35:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2003 1:36:52 AM EDT by eschang1]
Might be a bad idea. I doubt you're taking it up to red hot temperature, but if you cool it too rapidly and give it repeated cycles of rapid heat and rapid cooling, it could probably mess with the metal, create stresses from uneven quench and warp the barrel eventually. I know when I used to make knives, if you heated it unevenly and then quenched it funny, it would warp the blade.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 2:24:10 AM EDT
Maybe if you rigged up something like the old water-cooled machine guns they used back in The War, it would be alright.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 3:02:33 AM EDT
No, it's a reallyyyy bad idea. eschang hit the nail right on the head as to why. You could also cause the steel to become more brittle. In swords/knives if you heat the blade up past a certain point and then cool it very quickly, the steel becomes harder/more brittle. This could be a bad thing when talking about something thats ment to direct a small explosion. I am not sure if the stress would be enough in that case to cause damage, but why take chances? This way you're not using up all your ammo so fast anyways ;)
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 5:19:02 AM EDT
What benefit do you get from firing so fast? Accuracy? It's great PR for us isn't it?
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 5:21:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2003 5:24:30 AM EDT by Irishfly]
I have seen benchrest competition shooters do it but their barrels aren't nearly that hot. they put a little mister down the bore and mist some water in their to cool it faster for cleaning between relays. They probably have only fired 10 to 15 shoots at that point though. It sounds like yourn is piping hot. The best bet (what I do) is to bring another gun to shoot in between! [smoke] D.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 7:27:20 AM EDT
PhillipKP definately bring a second or third gun with you. I generally bring 3 guns and put 2-3 30rounders thru one then do the same with the next two. So by the time I`m done shooting the third gun the first gun is cool again and waiting to go.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 7:34:00 AM EDT
and.... bring, or buy a SAR-1 ( innexpensive AK-47 Variant) and shoot the bejeezus out of it. Mag after mag after mag and she'll still keep barkin'. When you're tired of that, your AR-15 should be cooled down enough and then have your fun with it.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 7:35:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Frankie: and.... bring, or buy a SAR-1 ( innexpensive AK-47 Variant) and shoot the bejeezus out of it. Mag after mag after mag and she'll still keep barkin'. When you're tired of that, your AR-15 should be cooled down enough and then have your fun with it.
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I'll second that idea.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 7:38:54 AM EDT
While my AR is cooling off I bring a couple of scantily clad female escorts to fan my rifle with palm branches and a third to feed me grapes.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 7:42:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hokie: While my AR is cooling off I bring a couple of scantily clad female escorts to fan my rifle with palm branches and a third to feed me grapes.
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That is after they have tended to my needs while I'm blasting away with my SAR-1 :-))
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 8:37:59 AM EDT
I love to watch the CLP sizzle off the barrel of my SAR-1.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 9:32:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2003 9:39:48 AM EDT by wjshark]
I would agree that it sounds like a bad idea, but I remember reading about a torture test(in shooting times) between a Springfield M1a and a Chinese copy. The idea was to fire 10,000rnds as fast as possible with no maintenance. When they got to hot to hold or the stocks caught fire, they poured water down the barrel. The Chinese failed around the 500 rnd mark(I think the springs collapsed due to the fast cooling). The Springfield kept right on ticking. Near the end the test groups were actually smaller than at the start of the test. Still not something I would want to due unless in life or death situation. I remember reading about GI's urinating on their weapons(mg barrels IIRC) to cool them down, now that would be hard core. I think POA would probably be affected at the least.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 9:56:08 AM EDT
Just don't let that hot barrel touch your PEE PEE, Jethro.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 10:02:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By T2: What benefit do you get from firing so fast? Accuracy? It's great PR for us isn't it?
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It is lots of fun. Don't tell me you don't enjoy making lots of noise with your AR?
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 10:39:48 AM EDT
When they were testing the first M14's at Aberdeen Proving Ground, one of the endurance tests was to dump 3 or 4 mags in full auto, then with the bolt locked back they would dunk the whole rifle in a big barrel of water. After waiting a few seconds for the water to drain from the bore the process would be repeated, hundreds of times. My dad ran these tests. Unless your barrel is getting REALLY hot, glowing red (I doubt it) you don't have much to worry about from a metallurgy standpoint. That said, I wouldn't do it to a rifle that belonged to me. Take several rifles and just let it cool while you shoot another.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 11:49:35 AM EDT
I do it all the time, no ill effects. barels are annealed not tempered. GG
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 12:00:26 PM EDT
Back in the old days of the M1 Garand, used in boot camp, ordnanc people were too lazy to clean more than one rifle per pit. The recruits would be handed a "smokin' hot" rifle, the wood forearms literally smoking and too hot to touch! They would load and fire thir allocated eight rounds, and hand it off to the next guy. This went on all day long, and those old rifles kept on chuggin'... The M16 is designed to fire fast and lots, with the biggest danger from a hot barrel being a cook off. My old dad taught us to never shoot when the barrel was too hot to touch because it would hurt the barrel in some way. My brother and I got our old bolt action .22LRs plenty hot lots of times, and they would still take out a crow at 50 yards or knock a can off the fence post. I don't think that you are going to hurt a modern combat rifle by shooting it hot.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 12:34:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2003 12:37:33 PM EDT by REDHORSE]
One of many goofy projects we use to amuse ourselves. Well, one of the guys in our club did a little home depot experiment with his AR, when we were out in a desert camping trip. Filling the jacket with regular water. He hooked up a water pump to the truck battery. [img]http://www.webshooters.org/photogallery/SECRET_5_Oct_19_02/gu200094.JPG[/img] You can see the PVC pipe, clamps, filler spigot. [img]http://www.webshooters.org/photogallery/SECRET_5_Oct_19_02/gu200096.JPG[/img] Torture test to see how it works. Went through a bunch of 30 rdrs. [img]http://www.webshooters.org/photogallery/SECRET_5_Oct_19_02/gu200102.JPG[/img] You can see some water shooting out of the filling spigot. Empting a loaded C-Mag... [img]http://www.webshooters.org/photogallery/SECRET_5_Oct_19_02/gu200103.JPG[/img] Conclusion... The rubber bushing used to seal around the barrel and water jacket at both ends, began to melt. Therefore, water jacket began to lose some water. They were able to get the system to steam up through the filler spigot. No harm done to barrel, gas tube, etc.. It was hillarious to see it in action.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 3:02:40 PM EDT
LOLOLOLOL
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 3:03:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Katherine_J: No, it's a reallyyyy bad idea. eschang hit the nail right on the head as to why. You could also cause the steel to become more brittle. In swords/knives if you heat the blade up past a certain point and then cool it very quickly, the steel becomes harder/more brittle. This could be a bad thing when talking about something thats ment to direct a small explosion. I am not sure if the stress would be enough in that case to cause damage, but why take chances? This way you're not using up all your ammo so fast anyways ;)
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It's interesting to read all these posts. It's been a while since I've really read up on the metallurgy stuff. I wasn't so much concerned about hardening the steel and creating a brittle structure as I was with warping the barrel, which could change the zero or change your group size. In a combat rifle, I doubt it would matter that much, but if you are using it as a target rifle, I would be somewhat concerned. Unless you take the gun up to about 1550-degrees F temperature and then rapidly quench, theres really not much chance you'll harden it or make it more brittle. The austenitizing temperature of most .40% carbon by weight steels is at least 1550-degrees F. Back when I made knives from 1095 (approximately a .95% carbon by weight steel), I would need to take it up to about 1900-degrees F, quench it in oil or brine, and then I would pop it in the oven for tempering at about 450-degrees. I would have to let the steel cool down slowly after I was done with the tempering step. If you drop the temperature too quickly, even from 450-degrees, there was a chance you could cause a stress crack or warp the blade a bit. With a rifle barrel, I have sincere doubts that it would cause an actual stress crack in the barrel (has to be a pretty shitty barrel), but any tiny bit of warping could really throw your zero or groups off.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 5:01:28 PM EDT
paper puncher really dont get that hot. Blasters do. Its not going to screw up didly. 1550 dg. is more than cherry red. That funny warping of the blade is what Japs use to benefit when they make samurai swords. GG
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 5:21:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2003 5:22:34 PM EDT by Frankie]
Yeah I agree. Somehow I have a problem thinking the men that have been in fire fights in wars over the last 90 years stopped to worry about melting and or warping barrels. So, with todays technology and metalurgy knoweldge better than it ever has been I would say..... BLAST AWAY! That is unless you are shooting a Ruger Mini-14.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 6:13:09 PM EDT
I remember reading an article in which guys did the same thing as the pics above, the only difference is that they ran the water hose though ice in a big igloo cooler. It worked, but was very cumbersome. There is someone who makes a system that will run CO2 through your barrel, I wouldn't do it, but maybe someone knows a link.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 6:58:48 PM EDT
You're probably right, i think blades would be much more suseptible to this kind of thing anyways. being that they're much thinner then barrels, just decided to toss it out as a possibility ;) On a differant note, when myself and my friend go out shooting we run mag after mag after mag with little to no cool down time..while one of us is firing, the other is filling up magazines We ussually run through six mags or so like this. The rifle gets so hot holding onto the handguards starts to uncomfortable, I've wondered several times why they didnt melt, but I havent had a problem yet. Just my experiance so far
Originally Posted By eschang1: It's interesting to read all these posts. It's been a while since I've really read up on the metallurgy stuff. I wasn't so much concerned about hardening the steel and creating a brittle structure as I was with warping the barrel, which could change the zero or change your group size.
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Link Posted: 5/24/2003 8:21:04 PM EDT
I line up 5 or 6 rifles on the table, and after emptying a mag, move to the next one in line. By the time I have fired the last one, the first is cooled off.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 4:59:16 AM EDT
Unfortunately I only have one carbine. My AK-47. So, I pound a couple of 20 rounders through her and then I have some time to practice with my 1911's. It's back and forth like that, and that's basically what my day is like when I'm shooting. Plus, it's even fun just to sit on my lowered tailgate of my 4Runner for awhile and enjoy the weather and the mountains where I'm at.
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