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Posted: 1/6/2012 11:22:25 PM EDT
A while back I picked up a supposed used Bushmaster 16" M4A2 upper from a vendor at a local gun show... After pulling it out of the safe to identify it, I have found that the flash hider is not "Pinned" or "Soldered" like it is supposed to be. I have yet to pick up a lower, and want to wait until I have something that meets the law. What are my options? Sell it as a 14.5" upper? Purchase a flash hider and have a local shop pin it in?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:33:04 PM EDT
If the Barrel is 16 inches nothing needs to be done.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:34:46 PM EDT
The barrel measures 14.5" without the flash hider.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:38:50 PM EDT
Ok have a smith pin and weld a flash hider of your choice that makes that barrel 16 inches... then you will be ok
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:43:10 PM EDT
Can I sell it this way?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:47:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 11:52:27 PM EDT by Striker071]
yes you can but as a NFA upper. Have a hider or comp that makes it legal pinned and welded and you will be able to sell it easier.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:50:30 PM EDT
Even though I don't posses a NFA? As you can tell, I am not a law breaker, and have no plans on being one.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:54:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 11:58:44 PM EDT by Striker071]
Zeus not accusing you of breaking the law.... just giving you info to help you better sell that upper

If you don't have a lower yourself you are ok .... Lets ay I have a Lower in my house ... I buy the upper you have currently in the condition it is in... the minute I receive it I now have a unregistered NFA item in my possesion.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:55:17 PM EDT
The bushmasters can be hard to tell if they're pinned. Are you actually able to screw the flash hider off? The pinning on my BM barrel was barely noticeable, they weld over the pin and park over the weld. Check the 6 of the flash hider, that's where it most likely is.Will look approximately like a pea sized splotch under the parking
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:02:10 AM EDT
sorry not accusing anyone, I just don't want to chance something illegal. After looking at it much closer, it looks like it was pinned... There is what looks to be a small hole in the threads of the barrel. The threads themselves look to be a little damaged, but only 1/4 of the threaded section. Suggestions?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:03:46 AM EDT
After doing some reading I was nervous that it wasn't pinned because the flash hider had a lock washer behind it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:36:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 12:39:26 AM EDT by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By Zeus87:
sorry not accusing anyone, I just don't want to chance something illegal. After looking at it much closer, it looks like it was pinned... There is what looks to be a small hole in the threads of the barrel. The threads themselves look to be a little damaged, but only 1/4 of the threaded section. Suggestions?

So you removed the flash suppressor?

Yes you can sell it, it's not NFA or even a controlled item. Pistol builds are legal in most states.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:21:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 4:23:45 AM EDT by CRsmoker250]
Just to verify your measure, did you use a cleaning rod down the barrel and have it rest against the bolt face for length? Dont mean to keep at this, just checking.....

If the barrel is 14.5", send it to ADCO for pin/weld with an extended A2 or your favorite longer FH
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:59:25 AM EDT
What flash hider is on it? My 14.5 Bushmaster A2 upper has their IZZY break reemed out to a flash hider. It is pinned and does have a washer behind it(to clock it). You can barely see the pin unless you know what your looking for. If its a standard birdcage then its probably not pinned as it still wouldn't be long enough. If you have not demonstrated "intent" to break the law you can sell it legally as is. Right now I can order a shortbarreled upper and have itdelivered to me through the mail and I'm breaking no law. The feds have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that l intended to mate it to any of my rifle lowers. Not a fed prossecuter out there that would waste time and money on that (unless I'm a real bad guy andthey want to pile on)....I had my FFL for 9 years, spent 24 years in the Military and I'm presently a Federal Licensed First Responder. Trust me your not a criminal for just possessing an SBR upper......Mike
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 6:23:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Striker071:
yes you can but as a NFA upper. Have a hider or comp that makes it legal pinned and welded and you will be able to sell it easier.


There is no such thing as an "NFA upper" an upper is just that, AN UPPER.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:14:35 AM EDT
Factory bushmasters are often pinned with two pins, top and bottom. Unless you can actually remove the flash suppressor, your not being able to see the pins is meaningless, since the welds are dressed and the barrel refinished, in most cases.

Removal is destructive to the flash suppressor, generally, even if you can see the welds, because you have to cut/grind/drill deep enough to get past the welded areas in order to ever remove them. I've often ended up splitting them in two starting with a bandsaw and finishing with a hacksaw or dremel when I couldn't visually locate the pinned areas.

No barrel or upper is by itself an NFA item - they have legal uses as pistol uppers. Since OP does not possess a lower at all yet, he's fine even if the barrel does turn out to be <16".

It sounds like the OP doesn't KNOW it to be unpinned, just thought it must be, since it has a washer behind the flash suppressor - though his comment about 1/4" of damaged threads is then puzzling.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:17:46 AM EDT
Thanks guys. Here's the story... I bought this upper a few years back when I first developed an interest in the ar. At the time, it was an impulse buy at a gun show, and the vendor couldn't tell me much about it other than he believed it came from a U.S. Marshal's gun. When I recently found the time to get into doing something with one of these rifles I began doing research and decided I wanted something a little different, now looking for a 18" barrel. As I got more into depth about these guns I found the importance of legal barrel length to be significant, and wanted to tell this upper. From the looks of it, ( any other perspective was unknown) it was a just legal 16" barrel, that had a birdcage style flash hider on it. At this point I wanted to sell it, but not with the chance of sticking someone with something illegal.... I through a wrench on it to check, and this was the result... Gotta love it. Putting it up for sale. What do you guys think its worth? Upper is great condition, the barrel is scratched up a bit, it has the "lug" under the iron sight. Thanks for all of your help.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:21:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 8:25:30 AM EDT by jerz_subbie]
You don't have to worry about NFA rules if you possess only the upper (no lower), or just the barrel and no way to completely assemble it.

Either pin a hider/brake on there or sell it as is and let someone else pin their choice of muzzle device. If you sell it just be perfectly clear that it is a 14.5" barrel and that "all NFA rules apply."

ETA: take a couple pics of the upper for a better idea of what it may be worth.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:32:16 AM EDT
If you don't have a lower for it at the moment, no problem.
If you own a pistol lower currently, no problem.

Otherwise get it pinned so the length is 16" or sell it. You can sell it without any problems. The upper is "only" a barrel and not a registered firearm.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:06:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 12:08:56 PM EDT by Zeus87]
Here it it... you can see the threads, they aren't bad, and the hole for the pin is through the barrel, (you can see through it) but not through the rifled area. What do you think? I stopped at a local shop and they said the threads are salvageable, to get a new hider and they will pin it. I will do it if it will make it more valuable, but I have other plans for a upper and just want to sell it to be honest. Thanks for the advice everyone!

http://www.justinzampella.com/Random/APEC/i-sCzthdp/0/XL/IMG0715-XL.jpg
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:20:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zeus87:
I have found that the flash hider is not "Pinned" or "Soldered" like it is supposed to be

Well, it WAS pinned, now it's not anymore.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:46:07 PM EDT
Correct......
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:53:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 12:55:20 PM EDT by ArmedNAlabama]
Originally Posted By Zeus87:
Here it it... you can see the threads, they aren't bad, and the hole for the pin is through the barrel, (you can see through it) but not through the rifled area. What do you think? I stopped at a local shop and they said the threads are salvageable, to get a new hider and they will pin it. I will do it if it will make it more valuable, but I have other plans for a upper and just want to sell it to be honest. Thanks for the advice everyone!

http://www.justinzampella.com/Random/APEC/i-sCzthdp/0/XL/IMG0715-XL.jpg


I'm not sure it will make it any more valuable, just more desirable. Right now, it would only be legal to put this upper on a registered SBR lower or pistol lower. If you pin and weld a FH that makes the overall length 16", it can be put on any AR lower receiver and still be legal in most states. This means more potential buyers. Make sure the FH you install puts the overall length of the barrel at or over 16".

It would be legal to sell it like it is. It would be up to the buyer not to put the upper on a non-SBR rifle lower. Since the threads are a little buggered up, I would follow the advice to have the FH pinned and welded and then sell it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:54:59 PM EDT
If you don't want it, sell it as-is, someone will buy it to have it cut to 11.5 or 10.5 or whatever.

Alternatively you could do something like put a Vortex on it and silver solder.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:55:35 PM EDT
What should I post it for price wise as is?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 3:38:16 PM EDT
Condition controls what your window is. New upper is $500 ish so $300-$400 is what I'd sell it for. That is with the BCG included. Ask $450?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 3:40:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zeus87:
What should I post it for price wise as is?

As is? $325 with bolt and carrier.
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