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Posted: 1/6/2003 10:23:43 PM EDT
In my not so humble opinion, the best; general purpose, rugged, carbine configuration from currently available parts.
Also what I remember paying.

UPPER   An Armalite chrome-lined, preban, midlength upper turned down to Gov't profile underneath the handguards($330+75). The new Colt bolt, with the improved extractor profile/spring/o'ring($45), and any quality carrier parts combo($60). PRI Big-Latch charging handle($75). Picitanny rails added to handguard for surefire and foregrip($50).

ARMS#40 with ashley dual plane installed($100).

LOWER   any quality lower(PWA-$175), RRA two-stage trigger($90), BM ambi-selector($25), Norgon Ambi-Catch($60),RRA 6pos stock&tube($45), Daniel Defense sling plate ($25)

SLING ZM bungee ($40)

So for $1200, and considering I had accumulated some small parts over the years, I had the "ideal carbine"

High-lights: The mid-length is only 11/16 longer than my 14.5 Colt with vortex, yet gives: much better velocity, improved extraction and wear characteristics, increased sight plane, farther out front sight assembly gives increased FOV when optic mounted.

The RRA 6pos stock increased toe length and adjustability, is invaluable for dynamic shooting.

BM ambi-safety: Now possible to re-safe rapidly, on the run, with top of trigger finger, without changing ones grip.

DD sling plate does not get in the way or cut one, like the GGG product.

PRI big latch is great for clearing on the move, wonderful with optics, and can be manipulated soley with the palm of left hand. No gas in the eye either, for the rest of you nose to charging handle types.

Also a Comp2 and a TA31F accompany, but optics require another word fest.

Yes, you Marine types may marry a bayonet to this if you wish.

Link Posted: 1/6/2003 10:49:14 PM EDT
Sounds reasonable to me...
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 1:05:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2003 1:09:00 AM EDT by M4C]
WHAT? for all this foreplay, not a single G-damned picture??? [>:/]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 7:36:42 AM EDT
Lets see some pics!

Link Posted: 1/7/2003 8:17:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 9:08:49 AM EDT
I got two in 93'.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 11:42:59 AM EDT
Sounds about right to me.  I'd go with a single-stage trigger and skip the foregrip, but otherwise you've nailed it.  (Several other parts I'll leave out of mine to save $$ but I'd put them in if I had it.)

The "from currently available parts" is a problem though.   No one seems to make a barrel that is ALL of:
 16" post-ban (no muzzle brake)
 mid-length HGs
 1/7" or 1/8" twist
 A2 profile
 fixed front sight
Anybody know where to find such a barrel?  I know KKF can do the A2 profile if I find the rest in an HBAR, but nobody seems to make a 1/7 or 1/8 with mid-length HGs.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 6:42:33 PM EDT
Rock River Arms makes a  midlength carbine with a stainless 1/8 twist barrel I've got one on order and it is a full 16" with no muzzle break
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 8:30:18 PM EDT
FYI: The Armalite mid-length 16' ALREADY comes standard in the A2 configuration...
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 9:15:20 PM EDT
Stormy.... whats your point?
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 9:35:05 PM EDT
Sar: It wasn't clear from the post if you already had all the parts yet, and some of the guys said KKF could turn the barrel down to A2 config; I was merely testifying that the mid-length barrel from Armalite already comes that way...at least mine did...
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 10:24:45 PM EDT

Your Armalite upper is pencil thin underneath the handguards?

Some were also trying to figure out  how to get a 1/7 twist in this format.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 11:52:37 PM EDT
Your prices are wrong and the BM ambi safety is crap.  $100 for a ARMS 40 with Ashley aperature?  You need to sell em on the EE and make a killing!  $50 rails on the handguards are ideal?  LMAO thats the funniest post I have read in a while thanks bro. Oh I especially liked the RRA trigger being better than the KAC and how the FOV of a TA31 is incresed when the front sight is further away [;)] Your setup is not 1/7 either.  I just dont see it as ideal but thats just me.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 6:46:41 AM EDT
I believe sar3k already has his rifle built, and his prices are what he paid over the years, not necessarily current prices.

I'm trying to build something similar, but can't find a 1/7 or 1/8 chrome-lined with mid-length HGs.  The Armalites are chrome (and now A2 profile, which is a bonus) but 1/9.  RRA has a 1/8, but not chrome lined.  No one else makes mid-lengths, and Kurt says my idea of cutting a chrome 1/7 20" back won't work because of the extra gas port.  

So I have to decide which I want more--chrome lined or 1/7-8 twist.  I was leaning towards the RRA, but the A2 profile on the Armalite is a plus.  Then again, I could probably get the RRA and have Kurt cut it down cheaper than I could get the Armalite.  Decisions, decisions...
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:13:32 AM EDT
I believe RRA only offers their mid-length upper with 1 in 8" in stainless steal. May want to check it out for shure.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 9:48:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 9:49:17 AM EDT by sgmtino]
the 1/8 twist barrels are only available in stainless steel from rock river which stainless steel has a lot of chromium in it and should have excellent wear resistance comparedd to chrome moly barrels and you can get the rra uppers complete for under 400.00 if you know where to look my 2 cents
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:04:40 PM EDT
Grouchy Devillette

My prices may be wrong, but thats what was paid.

While the BM may not please you, as it maintains stock appearance and function, someday they may offer it in pink.

Nothing I use gets treated with kid gloves. I've had one of these "Crap" safeties last beyond the two m4's I pushed past their service life within 21/2 yrs. What were your shortcomings?

No where did I see mention of the RRA trigger being better than the KAC, though I disagree. I've had them on m4's and mk11's with both the red and blue adjust. End users with ex-high use rates are familar with its problems. A wee pricey for my taste anyhow at $220ish.

A 1/7 would, however,  be nice were I to start using the; 75, 77, 100gr loads.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 6:50:56 PM EDT
I dont like the roll pin on the BM ambi selector.  Anyone want an almost unused BM ambi selector for cheap?  What problems are there with the KAC trigger?  I have never heard of one.  I have never seen one go for $220 either.  I just mailed one off for $240 eating a $40 loss after shipping.

See, my only real issue with your "ultimate carbine" is that you have an effective fragmenting range less than a 14.5" 1/7 twist barrel using 75 grain ammo.  Its less compact, weighs more and this is countered by the fact the back up sights have a longer sight radius?  I just dont get that logic.  I think the "ultimate carbine" can only be the ultimate under a specific set of criteria.  You give criteria then make a rifle to fill it.  What were your criteria for this rifle to fill?  Perhaps it is ideal for your intended role but not for someone elses.
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