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Posted: 10/8/2004 2:59:24 PM EST
Are you all ready for this? I went to UPS today to ship my V-93 back to Vector Arms for warranty repair. The guy behind the counter told me I had to open it so he could inspect it to make sure it was legal to ship based on a new policy letter dated 20 Sep. He wouldn't let me hold the letter to read it thouroughly but I was able to read it once. It talked about "Automatic Rifles" and "the ability for it to shoot more then one round, unless manually reloaded, with one pull of the trigger" or words to that effect. It then went on to say if anyone presented a package to ship and the UPS clerk saw "Automatic Rifle" in the discription, not to ship it. I argued that the letter seemed to talk about autofire...not autoloading, with the trigger sentance. He called his manager and the manager had an e-mail with the policy letter...but the e-mail also had a note above it. I only got a glance but the note started "With the Federal ban on automatic rifles lifted, new rules are being put into effect" Or something like that.

I'm shocked and frankly...a bit pissed off. It seems that UPS is picking up where the Govt left off. I guess, at least in Omaha, Ne, we can't ship semi automatic rifles.

Can you still ship rifles through US Postal?
Greg
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:01:23 PM EST
FedEx. I don't know UPS rules about rifles.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:05:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 3:07:02 PM EST by mongo001]
From what I gathered, UPS is FFL to FFL only on all firearms. FedEx allows non-FFL to FFL, but you are required to declare it as a firearm and it must be shipped next day - very expensive. First firearm I sold over the internet, I took it in the shorts on shipping. Now, I've heard of people not declaring them as firearms and shipping standard, but you take a risk doing that. How much of a risk?? I don't know.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:07:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By ghansel1:
I'm shocked and frankly...a bit pissed off. It seems that UPS is picking up where the Govt left off. I guess, at least in Omaha, Ne, we can't ship semi automatic rifles.

Can you still ship rifles through US Postal?
Greg



The short answer is no on US Postal (exemptions for DCM guns). Try another UPS store, or maybe a private shipper that uses UPS. That might cost more, but techincally you are using them, and not UPS, so you follow the store's policies. And of course Fed Ex. I'm not sure on this one, but is DHL handling this stuff too?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:08:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 3:10:50 PM EST by mongo001]
Read this link from UPS:

UPS Firearms Shipping Rules

FYI, private UPS shippers refuse me also based on no FFL.

Link: FedEx Firearm shipping rules
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:17:50 PM EST
The FFL part was no problem, Since it was going to the factory it was cool. I had shipped a Colt 9mm Sporter to a dealer over the summer and it was no sweat. They refused to ship it based on it being semi automatic. The policy letter was new and a reaction to the Federal ban lifting. I think Michael Moore must have stock in the company...LOL
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:23:10 PM EST
You can ship a longarm USPS or Fedex. I would recommend Fedex, they are much better than UPS and cheaper.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:42:32 PM EST
This is thr reason i always use FedEx to ship anything firearm related. UPS is ridiculous when it comes to shipping any kind of firearm. They wanted me to a write a letter and send it to corporate before i shipped my handgun to an armory in Texas. lol. Yea right.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:45:08 PM EST
You out to see some of the stuff I have gotten in the mail at the office. Everything from M9s to machine guns and grenade launchers.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:55:50 PM EST
I would just like to add that I got an upper this week thru Fed Ex, and the box was in very good shape. I have my doubts UPS would have been so kind (have had many friends that worked for them).
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:02:55 PM EST
I recmend FEDEX. Where i work, we ship 400 to 1000 of packages a month and fedex is better at getting the items to the correct destination. UPS is so so.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:05:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:43:08 PM EST
Yep, I have completely givent up on UPS. I use Fedex for most shipments..... USPS if they are small/light.... Fedex ground almost always is cheaper than anything else in comparison.... next day kinda sucks for handguns, but it sucks across the board.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:45:31 PM EST
if you use ups, you will get screwed sooner or later.

Consider this a blessing - you got off easy. Go fedex.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:51:54 PM EST
Ruger shipped my wifes 9mm right to my house in a big brown van and I don't have an FFL. It was noted in his little handheld computer that it was a firearm and required an adult signiture. I have a FedEx account anyway so I don't use UPS to ship my packages.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:04:42 PM EST
I never say it's a gun, I say it's "precision machine parts" and I insure it for a hell of a lot. I've never had a problem with UPS but I always go to the distribution center to send stuff.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 1:12:23 AM EST
It may be that the UPS clerk did not understand the policy and the type of firearm you were sending. I had the same problem this summer shipping out just and upper. I told them what it was and they said they could not ship out firearms. I said it was not a firearm. We went on and on and I decided I was getting nowhere fast. I took the upper down to Office Depot they shipped UPS no questions asked.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 1:16:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 1:18:02 AM EST by cduarte]

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By ghansel1:
I'm shocked and frankly...a bit pissed off. It seems that UPS is picking up where the Govt left off. I guess, at least in Omaha, Ne, we can't ship semi automatic rifles.

Can you still ship rifles through US Postal?
Greg



The short answer is no on US Postal (exemptions for DCM guns). Try another UPS store, or maybe a private shipper that uses UPS. That might cost more, but techincally you are using them, and not UPS, so you follow the store's policies. And of course Fed Ex. I'm not sure on this one, but is DHL handling this stuff too?



that is absolutely not true. It is perfectly legal for a non-licensee to ship a long gun to a licensee in another state USPS. Go read the relevant code and check the ATF faq, if they've managed to correct it by now. I've shipped rifles to FFLs several times that way. I recommend using USPS priority and insuring it. Oh and CMP (the DCM is now defunct), ships rifles fedex these days.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 1:25:55 AM EST
UPS are commies when it comes to firearm shipments. They seized a rifle I shipped to AK for 4 days. Their reasons were ambiguous and inconsistent. I put forth an exhaustive effort in order for that rifle to be forwarded to the proper destination.

UPS sucks when it comes to firearm shipments.

OTOH, they seem fine with everything else.

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:35:31 AM EST
Ship UPS if you want to throw money down a rat hole, arm gangbangers, piss off customers and generally aggravate yourself.

If you actually _want_ your parcel to arrive at the intended destination in one piece, in a timely fashion, take it to the Post Office or FedEx. I've never received anything from USPS or FedEx that had holes poked in it, bootprints on top of the box, razor cuts in the side, soaked in what appeared to be old motor oil... All of which UPS was happy to provide me at no additional charge.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:57:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
FedEx. I don't know UPS rules about rifles.



+1 I always use FedEx. In 8 years of shipping docs and sending guns I have never had a problem.

MIke
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:17:38 AM EST
Maybe the guy was just trying to tell you to not waste any more time on this rifle.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:34:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By cduarte:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By ghansel1:
I'm shocked and frankly...a bit pissed off. It seems that UPS is picking up where the Govt left off. I guess, at least in Omaha, Ne, we can't ship semi automatic rifles.

Can you still ship rifles through US Postal?
Greg



The short answer is no on US Postal (exemptions for DCM guns). Try another UPS store, or maybe a private shipper that uses UPS. That might cost more, but techincally you are using them, and not UPS, so you follow the store's policies. And of course Fed Ex. I'm not sure on this one, but is DHL handling this stuff too?



that is absolutely not true. It is perfectly legal for a non-licensee to ship a long gun to a licensee in another state USPS. Go read the relevant code and check the ATF faq, if they've managed to correct it by now. I've shipped rifles to FFLs several times that way. I recommend using USPS priority and insuring it. Oh and CMP (the DCM is now defunct), ships rifles fedex these days.



It is perfectly legal for a non-FFL holder to ship a long gun to an FFL holder through the US Mail. My wife just shipped one for me to an FFL holder on a Gunbroker deal. Priority Mail Insured, no hassle at all. You must delare the firearm, though.



Lonny
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:16:20 AM EST
I print my UPS labels online and I always go to the distribution center to send rifles and they never question it.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:30:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By ghansel1:
I'm shocked and frankly...a bit pissed off. It seems that UPS is picking up where the Govt left off. I guess, at least in Omaha, Ne, we can't ship semi automatic rifles.

Can you still ship rifles through US Postal?
Greg



The short answer is no on US Postal (exemptions for DCM guns). Try another UPS store, or maybe a private shipper that uses UPS. That might cost more, but techincally you are using them, and not UPS, so you follow the store's policies. And of course Fed Ex. I'm not sure on this one, but is DHL handling this stuff too?



That is funny! I received my AK74 in a rifle case via Priority Mail Insured from In Range. It shocked the hell out of my carrier. As for UPS, avoid the UPS Store at all costs. Open up an account, print your labels online and either schedule a pickup or take it to a distribution center. BTW, DHL is owned by Deutsche Post which is Germany's postal entity. It will be interesting to see how they will treat this issue over time.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 2:24:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Fuck the Big Brown Turd.


Yep.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 2:33:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 2:34:14 AM EST by DavidC]

Originally Posted By Raptor22:
BTW, DHL is owned by Deutsche Post which is Germany's postal entity. It will be interesting to see how they will treat this issue over time.



From www.dhl-usa.com/resources/Terms_and_Conditions_of_Carriage.pdf



2. Unacceptable Shipments

Shippper agrees that its Shipment is acceptable for transportation and is deemed unacceptable if:

DHL decides it cannot transport an item safely or legally (such items include, but are not limited to: animals, bullion, currency, bearer form negotiable instruments, precious metals and stones, firearms, parts thereof and ammunition, human remains, pornography and illegal narcotics/drugs).



So it would appear that DHL gets a big FOAD for all my business needs.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 2:51:48 AM EST
Sadly I was told the same thing here.

I had sold a extra AR Upper, and went to ship out, since I was going to be in Shawnee that day anyway, I shipped it UPS.

Now I have done alot of business with this UPS hub, and they know that when I am picking up a package or shipping one, that most of the time it will be a firearm or related.

For the first time , the lady opened the box and at first refused to ship it, I said why?, she then said there is a new notice from UPS that no automatic rifles can be shipped.

I said, well first, this is a barrel and bolt, see, I held it up for her to look at, see no trigger, no lower assembly, no FFL needed...
So it got boxed back up and shipped..

I then said, I dont have any automatic weapoins, only semi-automatic, so that new regulation, should not be problem then.....

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 3:41:49 AM EST
I am not here to defend UPS, but I have never had a problem. You CANNOT ship a firearm through a UPS store though, it must be a distribution center. And I always ship it ground.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 4:47:08 AM EST
I sent an M14 receiver and parts kit, including some high-end parts (BPT piston, op rod spring guide, TRW bolts) to Fulton Armory 2nd Day, insured, via UPS in 2000. I was building out my dream M14/M1A.

They lost it.

For two months. Then they tried to not refund my money for it not getting there on time (much less losing the package).

I kept a written log of every telcon with them and did get my $ back eventually (and my rifle was built).

UPS has a crappy track system and things are not always scanned - ever order car parts or clothing and get a tracking #? Notice the level of detail that FEDEX provides over UPS as far as where your package was last scanned.

Bottom line, avoid UPS like the plague.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 5:02:38 AM EST
UPS is the devil-and the "UPS Store" is worse.

And the 'insurance'-ha ha ha !!!!!! Read the fine print, and you'll find that the only 'insurance' you get from that is that UPS ITSELF will review your shipment and decide if they were at fault!!!!


NEVER use UPS, and if you do, NEVER EVER use the UPS Store.


Larry
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 5:55:26 AM EST
Damn! I know I posted to this thread within the first couple of posts or so. Where is it? Did I forget to hit the submit button? Ain't done that in a long time....

On topic....


UPS sucks!

A couple of weeks ago I called them for a pickup, I live in a small town with no UPS service center. After spending 15min. with the gal she informs me UPS will not ship a gun from an individual to a anyone except the manufactorer. No exceptions. A licensed gunsmith or dealer included.

So I called FedEx. The first words out of my mouth were "I have a gun I need shipped to a gunsmith. Can you help me?"

The lady said she thought they could and you could hear her getting her shipping rules binders out and leafing through them. She, not some super. she had to consult, decided FedEx will ship from an individual to a FFL if the gun goes overnight with the firing pin removed.

We found a $25 overnight service. I didn't think that was too bad. Overnight even limits the time the warehouse gorillas spend with it. Reduces the chance of theft and damage.

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:03:05 AM EST
I used UPS to ship my USP back to HK for repair. No problems.

However, given the above referenced insurance info, and their seemingly shitty treatment of their other customers, it will be FedEx now.

For reference, if you are shipping back the manuf. for repair its implict that the FFL requirement is fufilled.

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:03:20 AM EST
Well I actually work for UPS in the hub, I have no idea what the policys are but I will give you a brief desription of the shipping proccess for anything....

When you drop a package off it should get scanned then will go to the local hub, if it's going to a local destination it will get proccessed there if not it will be sorted onto a truck, and delivered to the apropriate hub....

Once it actually starts being proccessed, it will eighther be taken off the truck or just placed on the belt depending on whether or not it's local, once it's on the belt it will go to the first sort where it's moved by hand to the next belt, then it goes to secondary where it's sorted by hand again to the appropriate box line, then it gets scanned, and a sticker applied which tells what bin it should be sorted to, what truck, etc., this is what you see when you look up the tracking number, sometimes it may get scanned more then once for whatever reason, the computer fucks up and prints two labels, the scanner fucks up and scans it more than once, the first label rips, or falls off, theres confucion whether or not it was the right label, etc.....

Once it gets scanned it goes down the slide to be sorted again, and placed it the appropriate bin, later that night the boxes will be removed from the bins and loaded into the right truck into the appropriate position....

Now there are a number of issues with our system first is the trucks mainly the tracktor trailers that bring the boxes to the hub, if the boxes are near the door, or above or near a rust hole in the floor and the truck goes through rain, or water they will get wet.... The packages are all shoved in there togethor if one breaks it will dump it's contents all over the other boxes in the truck, just a few months ago I was unloading a truck, and came accross a box of Margerrita mix that broke open, as a result about a quarter of all the boxes in the truck were covered in margerritta mix....

The next issue arrises from all the man handleing we could easily automate the system however it's a Union job, and they wont let us so were stuck in the 1950's....

The next issue is the belts if you see the inside of the hub you'll see a maze of belts and slides, the boxes have to be moved from line to line, and the lines themselves go in all different directions up, down, right, left, through a series of inlines, angled walls, mechanical arms, and slides, some belts are suspended a good 50 feet above the floor, through all this the boxes are tumbling around, banging into things, getting caught on stuff, wedged in etc....

Then theres the sorting slides before there loaded into the bins the boxes first slide down a smaller slide from the scanning station then get dumped onto another belt then into mechanical arms that push them off onto the sorting slide where the slide it's maybe 14 feet or so high and the boxes slide all the way down into the steel stop at the bottom where there sorted into the bins, if it's busy and theres lots of boxes on the slide then it lands in a big pile of boxes untill it gets sorted, and while it's doing this other boxes are landing on top etc.....

Then theres the technical side if the boxes data was improperly entered into the computer usually as a result of the clerk screwing up or you screwing up if you print your own labels, the computer prints a blank label, so the box needs to be taken off the belt, or the slide depending on the shift taken aside, scanned again, and the data manually corrected, then placed bck on the belt, or sorted to the proper bin unless it turns out to be a missort, if th sorters screw up and send a box to the incorrect box line (regarless of whether the data was correct to begin with....), there is no label on the box, or it's unreadable, then it has to be taken off the sorting slide, and thrown undernighth to the missort slide, then a clerk has to come around manually remove it, and eighther taken to the correct slide, or placed back onto the belt to start over, boxes without labels, or unreadable labels have to be taken to overgoods to be checked out.... If overgoods doesn't see a label, or also is unable to decifer it the box has to be opened and they will search to see if there is any clue to it's destination in there, if he finds something then the box will be eighther resealed, or put into another box, a new label is applied, and it's placed back onto the belt, if he doesn't see the destination, but sees a return address it will be returbned to sender, if no clue is found it will be shipped to Atlanta to the "lost and found", if the box isn't claimed it will be auctioned off....

So if you recieved a box and it seems to be covered in something it likely spilled from another box, there supposed to go to overgoods if this happens and repacked but sometimes there not....

If the box is covered in some kind of grease with a consistancy sort of like cosmolene then this probably came from the machinery, again it should have been repacked but sometimes there not....

If your box appears to have been opened it most likely broke open at some point eighther during transit, or in the hub, and it was retaped, or if it has a label on it that says UPS Overgoods it likely had to be opened by overgoogs if it's still in the origional box then the reason is probably that the shipping label was eighther not attached, fell off, or was unreadable, in wighther case check the contents and ensure it's all there before you take delivery....

If your box appears to have been repackaged it should ordinarily have an overgoods label on it, and the reason is that it likely had an issue with the label, or something spilled on it and it had to be rapackaged, check the contents before you take delivery....

If the corners of the box are bent, theres holes in it etc., then this is likely just from getting jostled through the system....

If it looks like your box was stepped on then it was probably stepped on....

So some tips if you ship UPS first PACK THE BOX WELL, as I said the box is handled alot and jostled around pack accordingly most of the boxes that open up are the result of the sender only useing one piece of tape of very little, it's also recommended that you use internal packing materials to cushion the item, and prevent it from moveing around, secondly put a copy of the destination and return address inside the box as well so overgoods has something to work with more copys the better, third the longer you have it in the system the more it's manhandled, and jostled around, so the quicker the shipping option the better, if you miss a delivery and the box returns to the hub, then it's placed back on the belt, fourth machines can't generaly read so writing fragile on the box will not get it handled any more gently, except for the few seconds when it's handled by a person, if your shipment is fragile pack it well, and use a quick shipping option....

As you can probably tell I am not in customer service I just work in the hub and I'm telling you what I observe, you should not take this as any sort of customer service responce, if you have any issues I urge you to take them up with customer service....
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:09:10 AM EST
I live in Omaha and sent 2 dissipators out to Lauer to get there Freedom Package In Wi. I had no trouble sending them out through UPS,But I also sent them through the Bullett Hole so that Probablty doesnt count. Hope to get them back this week. Hope you get your firearm fixed,From a brother in OMAHA.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:10:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 6:11:52 AM EST by RenegadeX]
From UPS web Site:

Shipping Firearms

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in the United States Gun Control Act of 1968.



Regardless of what the individual counter clerks say, the rules are clear. UPS does not ship to/from unlicensed people.

Go FEDEX for everything.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:17:49 AM EST
I think people have too high expectations from UPS employees, they would know the difference between a full-auto and a semi-auto weapon by looking at it? They would know that an upper is not classified as a firearm? C'mon....
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:30:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 6:30:53 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
From UPS web Site:

Shipping Firearms

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in the United States Gun Control Act of 1968.



Regardless of what the individual counter clerks say, the rules are clear. UPS does not ship to/from unlicensed people.

Go FEDEX for everything.



Sounds like you could use your C&R.
But, mirror, mirror, on the wall, still says UPS is the shittiest shipper of them all.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:45:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 6:46:00 AM EST by chaos4570]
Damn, TZhis sounds just like my thread from a couple of weeks ago......

fU** ups in their BIG BROWN A$$
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:55:15 AM EST
I recently shipped a shotgun back to ithacagun for refinishing i used the post office no problems ever.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:18:30 AM EST
I hate UPS. I ordered some DVDs a while back and they were shipped by UPS. The driver didn't bother to knock on my door or place them by my door; he placed them in my driveway, in the rain, BEHIND MY TRUCK. I didn't notice, and ran over them. I will NEVER use UPS for ANYTHING again. If a retailer from whom I'm buying something uses UPS, I will find another source and let them know why.

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:20:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By DavidC:

Originally Posted By Raptor22:
BTW, DHL is owned by Deutsche Post which is Germany's postal entity. It will be interesting to see how they will treat this issue over time.



From www.dhl-usa.com/resources/Terms_and_Conditions_of_Carriage.pdf



2. Unacceptable Shipments

Shippper agrees that its Shipment is acceptable for transportation and is deemed unacceptable if:

DHL decides it cannot transport an item safely or legally (such items include, but are not limited to: animals, bullion, currency, bearer form negotiable instruments, precious metals and stones, firearms, parts thereof and ammunition, human remains, pornography and illegal narcotics/drugs).



So it would appear that DHL gets a big FOAD for all my business needs.



Wow, that's news to me. I received some Walther stuff from Germany delivered by a DHL van. Everything was declared on the customs form.
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