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Posted: 4/20/2016 12:39:47 PM EDT

Hi Folks,




I am not sure if this is the best place to post this, but seeing as it is, to a certain extent, vendor-specific, I thought this board was relatively suitable for this inquiry.




I have been running Tubbs Precision Speed Lock flat wire chrome silicon buffer springs in all of my ARs, including the two I have had the longest (6 years), and they have always been absolutely flawless, both in 7.62 with my ArmaLite AR-10 and 5.56 in the BCM midlength build. I read a lot about these springs when they first came out and figured that chrome silicon was a good material for this use, as it does have a MUCH longer duty life and WAY higher heat resistance than other standard spring materials. Though it corrodes more easily than stainless steel, I think it is perfect for action springs, which are not exposed to lots of moisture or organic dirt, whereas my research and testing has led me to prefer stainless for things like magazine springs, because while they don't get hot or have nearly as many or violent compression cycles, they are exposed to moisture and organic dirt far more readily, making rust resistance of greater importance.




I have been running these Tubbs chrome silicon action/buffer springs through very harsh conditions in the tens of thousands of rounds, often going over 1,000 rounds between cleanings, and often being used in wet and dirty conditions (hunting in the swamps in the rain in North Carolina), and not only have they never showed the slightest sign of rust or corrosion, none of my ARs have literally ever had a malfunction of any kind.




I have been starting collecting parts for my next AR-10 and AR-15 builds these days, as well as more spare parts for the ones I already run, and when I went to buy some more of these springs, I was surprised to see that they are now made of stainless steel. I contacted them about it, and they said that they had found that chrome silicon corrodes more easily than stainless, and that they had invested quite a bit into R&D to develop a stainless steel spring that has the same heat resistance and service life (around 500,000 rounds) as their original chrome silicon ones, and that performance should be identical.




I really love their products, know they are a great company, and trust the performance of their stuff implicitly, but I just don't see how it is possible to make a spring out of this more pedestrian material and have it perform as well as the original chrome silicon. For anyone who knows spring metallurgy well or has experience with the higher-end stainless action/buffer springs like the new Tubbs, I hope you will chime in and tell me whether these are different than the originals, and if their claims about getting the same performance is really accurate.




I am a strong believer that quality processing, finishing, and manufacturing standards often do trump material. For example, I have encountered folks having problems with more cheaply-made bolts from 8310 or C158 steel, while the older 8620-spec used in my ArmaLite AR-10's bolts has been outstanding, due to the excellent manufacturing quality and precision ArmaLite uses. I've also used Chinese copies of the M9 bayonet made of 440C (a MUCH better grade of stainless steel than the mil-spec) that were pieces of crap compared to the 420J ones made by LanCay or Ontario (this steel is usually considered useless for knives or swords, but those American-made bayonets hold up great).




Thanks in advance
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 3:00:31 PM EDT
Quoted:
Hi Folks,


I am not sure if this is the best place to post this, but seeing as it is, to a certain extent, vendor-specific, I thought this board was relatively suitable for this inquiry.


I have been running Tubbs Precision Speed Lock flat wire chrome silicon buffer springs in all of my ARs, including the two I have had the longest (6 years), and they have always been absolutely flawless, both in 7.62 with my ArmaLite AR-10 and 5.56 in the BCM midlength build. I read a lot about these springs when they first came out and figured that chrome silicon was a good material for this use, as it does have a MUCH longer duty life and WAY higher heat resistance than other standard spring materials. Though it corrodes more easily than stainless steel, I think it is perfect for action springs, which are not exposed to lots of moisture or organic dirt, whereas my research and testing has led me to prefer stainless for things like magazine springs, because while they don't get hot or have nearly as many or violent compression cycles, they are exposed to moisture and organic dirt far more readily, making rust resistance of greater importance.


I have been running these Tubbs chrome silicon action/buffer springs through very harsh conditions in the tens of thousands of rounds, often going over 1,000 rounds between cleanings, and often being used in wet and dirty conditions (hunting in the swamps in the rain in North Carolina), and not only have they never showed the slightest sign of rust or corrosion, none of my ARs have literally ever had a malfunction of any kind. I do not know the answer to your question though.


I have been starting collecting parts for my next AR-10 and AR-15 builds these days, as well as more spare parts for the ones I already run, and when I went to buy some more of these springs, I was surprised to see that they are now made of stainless steel. I contacted them about it, and they said that they had found that chrome silicon corrodes more easily than stainless, and that they had invested quite a bit into R&D to develop a stainless steel spring that has the same heat resistance and service life (around 500,000 rounds) as their original chrome silicon ones, and that performance should be identical.


I really love their products, know they are a great company, and trust the performance of their stuff implicitly, but I just don't see how it is possible to make a spring out of this more pedestrian material and have it perform as well as the original chrome silicon. For anyone who knows spring metallurgy well or has experience with the higher-end stainless action/buffer springs like the new Tubbs, I hope you will chime in and tell me whether these are different than the originals, and if their claims about getting the same performance is really accurate.


I am a strong believer that quality processing, finishing, and manufacturing standards often do trump material. For example, I have encountered folks having problems with more cheaply-made bolts from 8310 or C158 steel, while the older 8620-spec used in my ArmaLite AR-10's bolts has been outstanding, due to the excellent manufacturing quality and precision ArmaLite uses. I've also used Chinese copies of the M9 bayonet made of 440C (a MUCH better grade of stainless steel than the mil-spec) that were pieces of crap compared to the 420J ones made by LanCay or Ontario (this steel is usually considered useless for knives or swords, but those American-made bayonets hold up great).


Thanks in advance
View Quote

I am also another that swears by Tubbs flatwire springs. I have had one in my AR for alot of years now( at least 6), and it seems much better then mill spec. It doesn't seem to have lost any length, and I have shot a lot of rounds threw it. After the years I've had it, the action is still more firm, and positive...then a new build with a brand new mill spec buffer spring. I am probably gonna change out the spring in the new build for another Tubbs, and put the mill spec in spare parts. I do not know the answer to your original question though.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:38:11 AM EDT
That's cool to hear from another Tubbs-convert like myself! I am actually quite spartan and KISS when it comes to my rifles, but when there is a part that decreases necessary maintenance, it goes in the weapon. I am fairly certain that if Tubbs says it will last as long as the CS spring, it will in fact do that. This will be nice, too, as it will add corrosion resistance to the system on top of the great performance. However, I have not experienced any corrosion issues on action springs like I have seen in music wire magazine springs. Hell, my '59-production Portuguese-model AR-10 has its action spring in perfect (and insanely strong) condition, despite being almost 57 years old and having been shot thousands of times in full auto and with corrosive ammo at least some of the time.



People today talk about overgassed ARs, but they haven't experienced anything until they shoot an original AR-10. These had adjustable gas blocks, and even with the lowest setting, they still slam that HUGE BCG (1.5x the weight of a modern AR-10 or SR-25's carrier group) and hulking Edgewater buffer back against your shoulder with authority, before that mighty return spring slams them back into battery like a sledgehammer!
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