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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/19/2005 3:27:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 3:30:11 AM EDT by jackal2001]
Well lets just start this off by stating that I know this has probably been covered a million times and I have read through the forums but really haven't found what I have been looking for. I am not ready to buy just yet but I am looking for some opionions on what would work for me.

M4/A3
1. To mount on top of the handle or the rail? I like iron sights and I see that some mounts offer a see through for the handle so you can mount it there. I understand some people like to rest their cheek against the buttstock for better aiming. I might be that way too, so I may have answered my own question.
2. Trijicon TA01 or Aimpoint xxx? I am not in the special forces but I would like a quality scope that can take a little abuse. Something that is lightweight and quality made. I don't want to spend over $900. I am not familiar with aimpoint models so does anyone have recommendations?
3. I don't plan on shooting at fast moving targets, BAC probably not needed. This is mostly a "I always wanted an M4" rifle. Mostly target shooting, home defense, plinking around, etc.
4. Shooting range up to 100 Meters mostly. I don't think I will ever go over 300Meters. So I believe a 3.5 or 4x would do just fine?
5. For plinking I plan on mostly using 55 grain ammo, up to 62 for other uses.

I have been shooting skeet/trap since I was 12 years old and various hunting rifles, handguns since I was 21. This is my first black rifle. Everyone has to have a badass rifle.

Thanks for the help and advice I have gotten so far on this board. You guys know your stuff!
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:03:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:05:36 AM EDT
looks like tweak has nailed this one
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:24:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:33:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:37:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 4:59:47 AM EDT by jackal2001]
Thanks for the info. Just wanted to let you know that I have an M4 with an A3 upper.
How many people actually use an M4 for home defense. I mean if someone breaks into your house, will your AR be the first weapon you grab. It really wouldn't be mine. I have a glock in my nightstand.

So I will be mostly using it for target shooting.
Thanks, I will be looking into the aimpoints.

One other question about the aimpoints... The ML2 offers either no or 2x mag. The ML3 offers no magnification. I would like something with magnification, that is the purpose of having a scope, otherwise I would just use the iron sights.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 5:10:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:28:03 AM EDT
Only cause I noticed your "$900" spending cap?...I'd hafta highly recomend you go with Trijicon..and here's why...

I just went through the very same decision making process...mostly fighting with myself and looking for less expensive alternatives but in the end?....Trijicon offers up FEATURES no other combat optics manufacturer does...at any price...those features being?....

A. There's no on/off switches so.... IT'S ALWAYS ON AND READY!!!

and....

B. NO BATTERIES REQUIRED.....ever.

I searched...looked...priced...I.O.R. Valdada, Leupold, Aimpoint, Combinations of...and no matter how I sliced it?....Trijicons Battery Free, Always On and At The Ready features stood heads and tails above the crowd...and at that point I realized that I'd be "settling" for anything less...and that nots to say the others aren't extremely high quality and highly competent sighting systems but....if you want the features trijicon offers?....you pay trijicon prices....My new Trijicon TA11 is due to arrive via UPS today!

So..there's my 2 cents and btw...as long as we're talking money?....my new TA11 cost me $899 "delivered" through a private scope dealing guy I know...which imo is one hell of a deal considering the MSRP and other net dealer prices.

Good luck deciding and L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:04:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
Only cause I noticed your "$900" spending cap?...I'd hafta highly recomend you go with Trijicon..and here's why...

I just went through the very same decision making process...mostly fighting with myself and looking for less expensive alternatives but in the end?....Trijicon offers up FEATURES no other combat optics manufacturer does...at any price...those features being?....

A. There's no on/off switches so.... IT'S ALWAYS ON AND READY!!!

and....

B. NO BATTERIES REQUIRED.....ever.

...My new Trijicon TA11 is due to arrive via UPS today!



There is a huge difference between the TA01 he is looking at and the TA11 you have, namely BAC.

Jackel,
Yes I use an AR for home defense, for a wide variety of reasons (which are not part of this discussion). If you want to discuss it then IM me or start a thread in the Ammo forum.

Of the two optics you mention I'd agree with Tweak (no surprise) and suggest the ML2. Though I'd also suggest you take a look at the EOTech 512.

Side note in Military nomenclature a 'A3' is identical to an A2 only it has full-auto instead of burst - that is the ONLY difference. Just call it a flattop and nobody will misunderstand you.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:11:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 11:13:58 AM EDT by Death_006]

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
Thanks for the info. Just wanted to let you know that I have an M4 with an A3 upper.
How many people actually use an M4 for home defense. I mean if someone breaks into your house, will your AR be the first weapon you grab. It really wouldn't be mine. I have a glock in my nightstand.

So I will be mostly using it for target shooting.
Thanks, I will be looking into the aimpoints.

One other question about the aimpoints... The ML2 offers either no or 2x mag. The ML3 offers no magnification. I would like something with magnification, that is the purpose of having a scope, otherwise I would just use the iron sights.



You have already made your decision. The Aimpoint is not for you. The Aimpoint is made for rugged, combat style shooting where the weapon is abused as much as the shooter. The Aimpoint is made for quick, super quick drawing on your target. With an Aimpoint all you see if a red dot and an unmagnified image. This allows the user to see what is around him/her and not have "tunnel vision". Keep both eyes open, shoulder your rifle quickly, place dot, pull. Put a dot on the target quickly and tap 2 shot double taps into the target. The Aimpoint is not for somone who sits at a bench and sees what type of groups they are capable of getting. The Aimpoint works great for ground squirual hunting, fast moving coytes, and running groundhogs (yes, lol they do run). It is not made to sit down and punch paper all day long.

I have a friend who had the same feelings you do, check out my post here; www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=244270

But from the sounds of things, the Aimpoint isn't for you.

As for the AR-15 and home defense, well thats another topic for debate.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:17:55 AM EDT
Death,
Thank you for that explaination and the use of the aimpoint. That helped a lot!
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:30:34 AM EDT
Ooops forgot the mounting options part...

No matter which optic you get I highly recommend the LaRue mounts. All my serious optics have them.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:34:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
Ooops forgot the mounting options part...

No matter which optic you get I highly recommend the LaRue mounts. All my serious optics have them.



BIG +1
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:39:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:44:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 1:46:59 PM EDT by jackal2001]
Looks like TA31 ACOG and LaRue Mount.

http://www.laruetactical.com/marketplace/servlet/Marketplaces?webEvent(ProductDetailAddPage,lo­adProduct)&productID=1850&scrollTop=212


This is the correct mount? That is all that I would need, provided I pull the carry handle off and mount to the flat top?
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:50:26 PM EDT
If you have a flat-top, definately ditch the handle and mount on the rail.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:03:52 PM EDT
the front sight won't be in the way?
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:13:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
the front sight won't be in the way?


No.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:22:43 PM EDT

Info on Aimpoints:

M2 - NV compat.; 4-MOA dot (covers 4" at 100-yards)
ML2 - no NV campability; 4-MOA dot
M3 - newer model; NV compat.; better battery life than M2 series; 2-MOA or 4-MOA dot
ML3 - newer model; no NV compat.; better battery life than M2 series; 2-MOA or 4-MOA dot

For mounts, look to pay around $100 for an ACOG or Aimpoint mount. I am a huge fan of the LaRue mounts.



Great summary. This should be tacked. It took me a lot of reading and searching to assemble this knowledge from previous posts. Thanks!
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