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Posted: 7/20/2008 8:23:18 PM EDT
I'm sure this has been mentioned a couple of hundred times before......but darned if I could find mention of it after an hour of reading threads...


Can I put any trigger in the DPMS LR 308 or 308 AP4 that I am currently using in my RRA AR15 rifles? Are the pins going to be the same? I'm preferring a 2 stage and might just use an the RRA NM trigger.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:51:35 PM EDT
Yes, you can. The pins are the same.
Link Posted: 7/27/2008 7:14:24 PM EDT
Anybody done the switch care to comment on the trigger-swap process, and how it worked out for them?
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 3:48:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By W_E_G:
Anybody done the switch care to comment on the trigger-swap process, and how it worked out for them?

Click the link and go about half way down page 1 for installation of a RRA 2 stage trigger. Arfcom build it yourself

On my 24", I had to clip the upper most tip of the cocked RRA hammer to provide sufficient clearance between the bottom of the bolt carrier and hammer. It is a huge improvement over the stock trigger.

On my 16", I run a JP single stage with a full power spring on a JP speed hammer.
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 5:10:27 AM EDT
I use a Timney trigger on mine, easy drop in.
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 6:00:39 AM EDT
I have a JP trigger and speed hammer on mine. Works great.

Install with any trigger is a couple pins. Just get the holes to line up and thats it. The drop in units from Timney or CMC are even easier, since you dont have to compress springs while trying to get it to line up.
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 6:44:56 AM EDT
I have the gieselle and it's a drop in. No modifications and you end up with a two stage trigger in the ounces.
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 8:48:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2008 8:49:08 AM EDT by reel2rifle]
I have installed two RRA NM triggers during the past two months each on AP4 config. Each required filling down the corner of the hammer. The bolt carrier would not ride over the top of the hammer. Great trigger, it will bust the primers on surplus which is a added plus.
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 8:50:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DnPRK:
I had to clip the upper most tip of the cocked RRA hammer to provide sufficient clearance between the bottom of the bolt carrier and hammer.


Any chance you could snap a pic of your modification?

I have a RRA on a .223 gun. I'd really like to have the "same" trigger on the DPMS .308.
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 2:27:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mad5757:
I have the gieselle and it's a drop in. No modifications and you end up with a two stage trigger in the ounces.


+1

Beats the shit out of any other AR10 trigger.

The RRA is just ok, and not really workable for a true precision rifle.
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 6:49:11 PM EDT
I just had White Oak ship me one of his tunned RRA two stage triggers for my 24" LR308. I use to have the CMC unit in there but wanted a two stage for better accuracy with the glass.
Link Posted: 7/29/2008 12:44:49 PM EDT
The first thing I dd when I got my LR308 was install a RRA two-stage trigger along with a Hogue grip. No modification to the hammer was necessary. It's a worthwhile upgrade and easy to do.
Link Posted: 7/29/2008 10:41:34 PM EDT
maybe overkill, but I have a geiselle and love it
Link Posted: 7/30/2008 7:15:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyA:
The first thing I dd when I got my LR308 was install a RRA two-stage trigger along with a Hogue grip. No modification to the hammer was necessary. It's a worthwhile upgrade and easy to do.


There must be something different. My SASS will not cycle with the RRA trigger installed. The carrier can't clear the hammer on it's way back. I'm not yet prepared to file on my hammer so I dropped the JP back in with the yellow spring and that seems to have lightened up the pull some. I'll see how that works.
Link Posted: 7/30/2008 10:11:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VaniB:
I'm sure this has been mentioned a couple of hundred times before......but darned if I could find mention of it after an hour of reading threads...


Can I put any trigger in the DPMS LR 308 or 308 AP4 that I am currently using in my RRA AR15 rifles? Are the pins going to be the same? I'm preferring a 2 stage and might just use an the RRA NM trigger.


Do your self a favor and send your stock trigger in to Bill Springfield for a #3 or #4 trigger. They are SWEET. The money you save you can spend on women and whiskey. If you have any money left over you can waste it.
Link Posted: 7/30/2008 10:41:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2008 10:45:44 AM EDT by W_E_G]
Can somebody post a pic of the offending portion of the Rock River hammer that interferes with the bolt carrier?


Here is what the RR hammer looks like in a .223 lower.

What part hits what part?... and causes exactly what problem?

Link Posted: 7/30/2008 11:41:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2008 11:41:46 AM EDT by Grunteled]
Don't have a picture but think of the hammer (the part sticking straight up in your picture) but instead think of it in it's cocked position. Now think about the bolt carrier moving rearward. The hammer protrudes slightly into the path of a portion of the carrier. When the bolt carrier portion directly below the firing pin comes into contact with the hammer in the cocked position it tries to push it down further, but the RRA hammer will not push down enough for that section of the carrier to pass over it so instead it tries to force the carrier and upper receiver upwards. This too will not yield because the take-down pin holds it tightly in place so the carrier is now being wedged between the top of the buffer tube and the hammer. This causes it to stick.

Some are saying you can file a bit off the top front corner of the hammer and by doing this you make more clearance between the cocked hammer and the carrier until the carrier can slide past without being wedged.

Link Posted: 7/30/2008 3:06:37 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Grunteled:
height=8
Originally Posted By JohnnyA:
The first thing I dd when I got my LR308 was install a RRA two-stage trigger along with a Hogue grip. No modification to the hammer was necessary. It's a worthwhile upgrade and easy to do.


There must be something different. My SASS will not cycle with the RRA trigger installed. The carrier can't clear the hammer on it's way back. I'm not yet prepared to file on my hammer so I dropped the JP back in with the yellow spring and that seems to have lightened up the pull some. I'll see how that works.


I got my DPMS rifle and the RRA trigger that's in it in late 2005. Perhaps there has been a design change since then.
Link Posted: 7/31/2008 8:47:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
Don't have a picture but think of the hammer (the part sticking straight up in your picture) but instead think of it in it's cocked position. Now think about the bolt carrier moving rearward. The hammer protrudes slightly into the path of a portion of the carrier. When the bolt carrier portion directly below the firing pin comes into contact with the hammer in the cocked position it tries to push it down further, but the RRA hammer will not push down enough for that section of the carrier to pass over it so instead it tries to force the carrier and upper receiver upwards. This too will not yield because the take-down pin holds it tightly in place so the carrier is now being wedged between the top of the buffer tube and the hammer. This causes it to stick.

Some are saying you can file a bit off the top front corner of the hammer and by doing this you make more clearance between the cocked hammer and the carrier until the carrier can slide past without being wedged.



Excellent description.

Thank you!
Link Posted: 7/31/2008 5:19:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2008 5:20:23 PM EDT by 1sok]
I installed an adjustable JARD with the 3# trigger spring.
now that I have it adjusted and I am used to it, I plan to get the 1# spring.



ETA: no modifications needed



bob
Link Posted: 7/31/2008 7:19:02 PM EDT
Picture per your request of the RRA NM Trigger Mod. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I Just got back online from the house.

Chamfered the leading edge corner tip of the hammer about 1/8" This was recommend by customer service at DPMS.



http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/reel2rifle/IMG_6550-1.jpg
Link Posted: 8/1/2008 6:10:19 AM EDT
Very helpful.

Thanks!!!

Can I impose on you for one more MS-paint line?

Can you draw a line that shows where on the face of the hammer is the contact point with the firing pin?
Link Posted: 8/1/2008 7:55:36 AM EDT
Glad I could help.

I would suggest putting the trigger in the lower. Then mark the rear of the firing pin with ink or the like. Cock the weapon and dry fire(unloaded weapon) it and look at the hammer, it should be marked with ink.


Had to put unloaded in there to CMA.
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 12:48:40 PM EDT


________________________________________
From: DPMS Customer Service [mailto:customerservice@dpmsinc.com]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: question about replacing trigger in DPMS LR-308-T

Yes the Rock River small pin trigger will fit the DPMS 308 rifles.
If you have any questions please feel free to contact myself.

Thank you,
Shane C
DPMS Customer Service

________________________________________________


-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 6:58 PM
To: customerservice@dpmsinc.com
Subject: question about replacing trigger in DPMS LR-308-T

I recently bought a new DPMS LR-308-T rifle.

I want to replace the DPMS trigger with a Rock River two-stage trigger.
In particular, I’m looking at the item sold by Brownells at http://tinyurl.com/6df4dj

Can you tell me whether this Rock River trigger is compatible with the DPMS LR-308-T rifle?

(image from Brownells web page appears below)

Link Posted: 8/11/2008 2:51:49 PM EDT
I have a RRA NM 2 stage in my DPMS GAP SASS.

I dont think it is as precise as I like (it breaks harder than my old KAC). It will be going on my AP4. I think it is going to be a great trigger for a shortie AR.

For my SASS, I have just gotten from Mr. UPS man a Geiselle (DMR). If I want lighter, I can order the Match grade pins.

Cannot wait to fire this puppy!!
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 3:30:41 PM EDT
Why in the hell would you want a 2 to 5 lb. trigger when you can have one that's easily adjusted and safe down in the ounces? (Giessele)
I'm a benchrest competitor. I cannot even imagine shooting ANYTHING accurately, besides maybe a shotgun, with a trigger in the pounds. That's ridiculous when an ounce match trigger is available, and can be adjusted to pounds if that's what you think you need. You end up with a match trigger and hunting trigger all in one package.
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 3:33:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By W_E_G:
Anybody done the switch care to comment on the trigger-swap process, and how it worked out for them?



I have put the JP adjustable trigger in quite a few of the 308 rifles. Never had a problem with them and they set up just like a standard .223 AR.
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 4:20:30 PM EDT
I bought an LR260L that's advertised as coming with the JP two stage trigger without the speed hammer. Mine came with the RRA NM two stage trigger. After calling DPMS about this Jason said that they ship with that trigger on request of the dealer sometimes. The trigger feels okay, maybe a little heavy. I'll use it for awhile & see if it lightens up a bit. Anyway when the trigger was installed at the factory the surface indicated in the picture had been ground off at a forty five degree angle to the hammer face to give clearance. There is about a quarter inch of trigger movement for the first stage take up. Then no movement at all for the second stage until after the sear break & then it's minimal. In my opinion it'd be a perfect trigger if the second stage was lighter. Funny, that sounds like I'm talking about my Jewell trigger. I also have one of the new CMMG two stage triggers. It's a copy of the RRA NM with bronze bushings & adjustment for take up & over travel. I might try it, if the RRA doesn't do it for me.
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 5:04:21 PM EDT
For what my rifle will be used for, it will never need a trigger in the "ounces."

I have a RR fixed-weight, two-stage in another rifle, and I'm quite pleased with it.

I'm only interested in shooting benchrest for the purpose of confirming zero.
Which seems to be the only place where an "ounces" trigger is the best choice.
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 5:55:15 PM EDT
Bushwak, They tried to blame a barrel mistake on my dealer I went through as well. I was listening when he ordered it. I believe they get parts shortages and fill in with whatever they can get to get the rifles out the door. But thats my opinion.

AL
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 6:11:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By W_E_G:
For what my rifle will be used for, it will never need a trigger in the "ounces."

I have a RR fixed-weight, two-stage in another rifle, and I'm quite pleased with it.

I'm only interested in shooting benchrest for the purpose of confirming zero.
Which seems to be the only place where an "ounces" trigger is the best choice.


Exactly my point. You sight your rifle in on a solid benchrest and you don't have a trigger for the job. With a Giessele you can adjust it down to about 3 ounces for sighting in and being able to see how accurate your rifle really is. And with the turn of one adjusting screw, you can get back to your 9 pound trigger. You cannot get down to three ounces and less with any other trigger than the Giessele. It's a sweet MoFo in the world of two stage triggers.
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 6:31:53 PM EDT
I'm sure I don't need a trigger in the "ounces" to explore the practical limits of an AR-type rifle.
Link Posted: 8/11/2008 6:41:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By velocitywhore:
Bushwak, They tried to blame a barrel mistake on my dealer I went through as well. I was listening when he ordered it. I believe they get parts shortages and fill in with whatever they can get to get the rifles out the door. But thats my opinion.

AL


I'm sure you're right about that. I really don't think I was cheated out of anything though. I have another build in the works & I'll try out that new CMMG two stage in it. If it feels any better than the RRA I may just swap them out.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 3:34:37 AM EDT
Mad- which model (Geiselle) are you using?

I ordered the DMR since it seemed the most versatile. I was planning on getting the other spring sets as well just to have.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 11:27:41 AM EDT
$280 for a cast-black trigger that is made not much different then an RRA, except that some guy figured out how to engineer it smarter? There's no reason to charge that much except he knows that he can. I'm sure that most of you guys who have already paid $280 would pay $400 too if that was his price, wouldn't you?

I've got quite a bit of money to my name, but as matter of principle, I refuse to be gouged. I'll have an RRA or the original DPMS trigger reworked before I submit to that.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 2:53:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggiBen:
Mad- which model (Geiselle) are you using?

I ordered the DMR since it seemed the most versatile. I was planning on getting the other spring sets as well just to have.


Hello Biggi, I got the adjustable large pin/match trigger. It's a 10 minute install on the kitchen table. I bought from Creedmoor Sports which are friendly and very helpful in getting the right parts for your model of rifle.
Dale McClure
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 3:48:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mad5757:

Originally Posted By BiggiBen:
Mad- which model (Geiselle) are you using?

I ordered the DMR since it seemed the most versatile. I was planning on getting the other spring sets as well just to have.


Hello Biggi, I got the adjustable large pin/match trigger. It's a 10 minute install on the kitchen table. I bought from Creedmoor Sports which are friendly and very helpful in getting the right parts for your model of rifle.
Dale McClure


Large pin? I thought those were just for Colts? I thought the DPMS took smallpin?
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 7:08:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2008 8:02:23 AM EDT by Mad5757]
Biggi,
I just went and got my receipt from Creedmoor sports and you are correct. My LR .260 takes the small pin Match Rifle Trigger.
I"m new at this AR thing.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 8:27:17 AM EDT
WHEW!!

Thanks!!

Ben
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 7:09:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2008 7:11:44 PM EDT by W_E_G]
I installed the Rock River two-stage (non-adjustable) trigger in my LR-308 tonight.

Had to do two things.

Remove 0.010" from hammer to gain clearance for bolt carrier.
Metal was soft. Dressed right up with an ordinary file.


Hog-out one wall on the selector "trough" to eliminate tail of trigger dragging on the wall of the trough.
Metal was hard as woodpecker lips. File wouldn't hardly scratch it, so used carbide dremel bit.
The trigger was only dragging on one of the walls of the trough. Took about 0.005" off to gain clearance.
Link Posted: 8/14/2008 9:59:28 AM EDT
I did the 15min trigger re-work. I love it. It was a huge improvement. Helped shrink groups from 1.25 to .75 I am now hitting clay pigoens at 276 yards with this of the rack rifle. Didnt cost me a dime and took me about 30 minutes to do. This was the first time I have had a lower apart. Maybe some day Ill get a better trigger but I think Ill take that 200+ dollars and bye another upper or powder.

AL
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 8:29:06 AM EDT
I just got an LR-204 a couple weeks ago with a RRA 2-stage installed. It arrived set at 3.5 lbs. I like the clean break, but I wish it were a bit lighter. Is there a good way to tweak the weight down and not mess up the sweet break?
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 8:54:23 AM EDT
Sure, buy a Geissele trigger from Creedmoor Sports. That was my fix.
Link Posted: 8/18/2008 4:31:56 PM EDT
Rock River trigger made a real difference over the stock trigger today.

Link Posted: 8/18/2008 7:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By W_E_G:
Rock River trigger made a real difference over the stock trigger today.

i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/targets/2008-08-18%20-%20DPMS/M852.jpg


Any trigger will be an improvement over the stock trigger. If you want to shoot better than all the other triggers, you have to have a trigger in the ounces. If you have never shot a rifle with a trigger in the ounces, you can bet your ass your competitors are. I hate to lose, how about you?

Every rifle I have (about 30 of them) Highpower benchrest, benchrest and silhouette airgun, .22 benchrest, 100 yard .22 rimfire, a gaggle of varmint guns, military bolt guns, military sniper rifle, all have the very best trigger available. And that means in the ounces somewhere. I compete somewhere every weekend and I win more than I lose. I cannot compete with a shitty trigger in the pounds. I wouldn't waste my time, gasoline, food money, motel room, wear and tear on my Hemi Dodge Magnum, and time away from family..

Of course. if all you are interested in is hitting the broadside of a barn, any shiity trigger will do.
Dale McClure
Link Posted: 8/18/2008 8:22:47 PM EDT
I'm really not sure a guy hitting at 1" with his semi-auto can be said to be just hitting the broad-side of a barn.

I'm not sure a trigger in the ounces is the ticket for every application either. Granted, that is often a big piece of the ticket for shooting very tiny groups.
Link Posted: 8/19/2008 1:40:03 PM EDT
Well, I left out the part about needing a few more items to go along with that 6 to 10 ounce trigger.
A Farley front rest helps dramatically. Redding match die set, neck trimmer, .002 headspace, shoot between heartbeats, windflags, (at least 6 flags for 100 yards}, a single shot adapter, no magazines, an adjustable gas block completely blocked off, a 36 power scope with a 1/8" dot, and last but not least: shooting free recoil. Can't do that with a trigger over one pound of pull. Practice and reloading at the range also helps print small groups.
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