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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:54:31 AM EST
Looking at some Lancers. Past experiance with Clear plastics are not to good. This was many many years ago. 1980's actually. Just considering the Translucent smoke vs solid black Lancers. Dind't know if the was a strenght differance. Thanks WarDawg
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 11:25:19 AM EST
Lancer claims their translucent is stronger than their opaque.  Mine are all opaque because it's cheaper.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 12:24:15 PM EST
Thanks for the reply.   Im baseing this off of early 10/22 mags and various other makes back in the 80's... WarDawg
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 2:54:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Lancer claims their translucent is stronger than their opaque.  Mine are all opaque because it's cheaper.
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Not saying it's not true but I can't find that anywhere

Do you recall where you saw that?
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 3:02:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By southerngunner:

Not saying it's not true but I can't find that anywhere

Do you recall where you saw that?
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Originally Posted By southerngunner:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Lancer claims their translucent is stronger than their opaque.  Mine are all opaque because it's cheaper.

Not saying it's not true but I can't find that anywhere

Do you recall where you saw that?


Lancer reps have said it on a few different forums in threads about their mags.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 3:07:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 3:21:02 PM EST
Our hybrid design is strong enough to allow the use of unfilled polymers, enabling Lancer to produce a robust trans- lucent magazine unlike any other on the market.


I found this on their website, to me it sort of implies that the reason they added the steel feed lips is because they wanted to use translucent polymers which are weaker the opaque polymers

Take it for what it's worth
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 6:00:56 PM EST
What mags were you using back in the 1980's?  Orlite is the oldest common one I know of.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 7:19:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 11:08:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By WarDawg:
Looking at some Lancers. Past experiance with Clear plastics are not to good. This was many many years ago. 1980's actually. Just considering the Translucent smoke vs solid black Lancers. Dind't know if the was a strenght differance. Thanks WarDawg
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Steyr AUG translucent mags first came out in 1977
Link Posted: 10/5/2015 9:18:43 AM EST
Hi WarDawg,

The main difference between the our translucent and opaque magazines in the fiber content or lack thereof.

While both are durable, they are in different ways.

The translucent, with its lack of fiber content will have some give when impacted and will rebound.

Our opaque finds it's strength through the stiffness of the added fiber.

Both have passed Mil-Spec for chemical resistance and rough handling.

With the addition of the steel feedlips, we addressed an area where we found there could be room for improvement when it came to rough handling in extreme environmental conditions and when exposed to certain chemicals.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any other questions or concerns.

Best Regards,

Dan
Link Posted: 10/5/2015 7:15:34 PM EST
I wonder how a translucent Lancer would hold up fully loaded and left in the baking sun for a month..
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 10:00:23 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ETSgroup:
A bit of quick info regarding clear vs non clear plastics. When you ask about strength we need to clarify what you mean. If you are speaking strictly of tensile strength, a glass re-enforced nylon will be stronger than a clear plastic. If by strength you mean toughness, then that is a different story. There are several clear plastics that will be able to endure more impact than your typical black mags, but a lot of the clear plastics suffer from being too soft, creeping(spreading), poor fatigue resistance, and very poor chemical resistance. Polycarbonate is a very tough and clear plastic, but it has poor chemical resistance and gets brittle over time.

If you have any more specific questions about our clear plastic and what it can do, please feel free to ask.

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What made y'all decide to go clear knowing it had potential issues.
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 2:46:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 3:03:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2015 3:04:46 PM EST by joglee]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ETSgroup:


We really didn't. Our primary goal was to create the most all around tough and durable polymer AR magazine in the world. It turns out that being transparent was just a bonus.
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Originally Posted By ETSgroup:
Originally Posted By joglee:
What made y'all decide to go clear knowing it had potential issues.


We really didn't. Our primary goal was to create the most all around tough and durable polymer AR magazine in the world. It turns out that being transparent was just a bonus.


Thanks for the info. So no signs of brittlement in negative temps or anything? I know feedlips are the most prone to damage part usually.
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 5:46:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2015 9:39:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2015 9:44:55 PM EST by ReaperTN]
ETS mags seem to have a good reputation, and a lifetime warranty. Watched some YouTube vids and was really impressed.  I ordered 2 mags a few days ago to give them a try.

BTW, my experience with clear mags has not been good either.  Bought a couple RamLine clear mags that fit both AR's and Mini-14 back in probably the early 1990's.  What a POS those were.  Brittle plastic body and followers, give them away when I sold the Mini!
Link Posted: 10/19/2015 12:51:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2015 8:58:44 AM EST
I've been very happy with my Lancer mags and the polymer is way different from something like an old Ramline clear 10/22 mag. It's like comparing a bicycle with training wheels to a corvette z06.
Link Posted: 10/20/2015 1:13:27 PM EST
I have beaten an ETS mag to death with not so much as a chip or a crack. I have Pmags both Gen2 and 3, that have have cracked from normal use and mag changes over cement.

I have a couple smoke and one clear lancer mags that I have yet to beat on, but they seem to be just as strong as any others I have tried.

I have no problem using ETS mags or Lancers for duty use or training. I find them to be just as strong or stronger than Pmags, and I have been using them almost exclusively for 10 years.
Link Posted: 10/20/2015 5:37:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ReaperTN:
ETS mags seem to have a good reputation, and a lifetime warranty. Watched some YouTube vids and was really impressed.  I ordered 2 mags a few days ago to give them a try.

BTW, my experience with clear mags has not been good either.  Bought a couple RamLine clear mags that fit both AR's and Mini-14 back in probably the early 1990's.  What a POS those were.  Brittle plastic body and followers, give them away when I sold the Mini!
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SteyrAUG mags predate the Ramline "combo" mags by quite a few years. The Ramline were TOTAL CRAP!
Link Posted: 10/20/2015 5:58:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2015 7:04:50 PM EST by Magpul]
Link Posted: 10/20/2015 6:19:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2015 7:12:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2015 10:03:20 PM EST by Magpul]
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 8:05:59 AM EST

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Originally Posted By ETSgroup:
Thanks for the compliment.
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Originally Posted By ETSgroup:



Originally Posted By NYresq1:

I have beaten an ETS mag to death with not so much as a chip or a crack. I have Pmags both Gen2 and 3, that have have cracked from normal use and mag changes over cement.



I have a couple smoke and one clear lancer mags that I have yet to beat on, but they seem to be just as strong as any others I have tried.



I have no problem using ETS mags or Lancers for duty use or training. I find them to be just as strong or stronger than Pmags, and I have been using them almost exclusively for 10 years.






Thanks for the compliment.
I concur with everything stated.

 





Link Posted: 10/23/2015 8:24:09 AM EST

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Originally Posted By Magpul:





Massive snip.



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Originally Posted By Magpul:



Originally Posted By NYresq1:

I have beaten an ETS mag to death with not so much as a chip or a crack. I have Pmags both Gen2 and 3, that have have cracked from normal use and mag changes over cement.



I have a couple smoke and one clear lancer mags that I have yet to beat on, but they seem to be just as strong as any others I have tried.



I have no problem using ETS mags or Lancers for duty use or training. I find them to be just as strong or stronger than Pmags, and I have been using them almost exclusively for 10 years.


Massive snip.



Regardless of how much text you post, Lancer and ETS mags have proven for durable than PMAGS. Your advertising and lawyers seem to be doing a great job though.

 



Let's not forget the over insertion tabs on the M3 mags cause problems with numerous popular lower receivers including BCM and Noveske, and are not compatible with many aftermarket trigger guards. Over insertion has never been a widespread problem, even with older USGI mags with spread feedlips. Perhaps the over insertion tabs are really to prevent the rear spine of the PMAG  from splitting. Which, was a problem the earlier generations were plagued with after being inserted on a closed bolt that I personally experienced and witnessed after using in competition for less than a year.










Link Posted: 10/23/2015 10:19:24 AM EST
^ good points.

Magpul's lawyers are the main reason I'm done buying magpul.  I don't buy A.R.M.S. either.

IME, Lancer mags are better than Pmags.  I'm looking forward to trying out ETS mags.
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 10:29:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 10:32:54 AM EST
I have a couple PMAGS for shits and giggles, but I buy USGI style mags cheap and stack deep.  I still am using several pre-94 ban aluminum mags with green or Magpul followers.  

I do think the Magpul GI mag follower is one of the best improvements for AR-15 reliability.   Have shot suppressed AR's until they were filthy caked and found that the green GI followers would struggle as the fowling built up, but Magpul followers kept working reliably.

IMHO the Lancer mag combining metal and polymer is the best approach to a polymer AR-15 mag, as the Glock lined mag is to a pistol magazine.
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 10:55:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 10:59:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2015 11:18:53 AM EST by southerngunner]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Magpul:


Sorry to lose you as a customer. That said we defend our intellectual property (ip) as we do our personal property and expect no less from anyone else.

Intellectual property rights were so important to our founding fathers that they ensured it was in the text of the US Constitution itself...


The concept of no individual intellectual property is a primary Communist ideal.

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Originally Posted By Magpul:
Originally Posted By Unreconstructed:
^ good points.

Magpul's lawyers are the main reason I'm done buying magpul.  I don't buy A.R.M.S. either.

IME, Lancer mags are better than Pmags.  I'm looking forward to trying out ETS mags.


Sorry to lose you as a customer. That said we defend our intellectual property (ip) as we do our personal property and expect no less from anyone else.

Intellectual property rights were so important to our founding fathers that they ensured it was in the text of the US Constitution itself...
[The Congress shall have Power] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries -Constitution of the United States, Article. I. Section. 8., clause 8: (Clause 8 – Copyrights and Patents)


The concept of no individual intellectual property is a primary Communist ideal.

Much of the core tenets of modern communism stem from their ideas on public property and the definition of ownership in society.  Communist philosophy argues against private property and supports collective ownership.  This philosophy applies specifically to intellectual property and software.  The common view  is that no person should on their own or control any property, whether electronic, merely an idea, or otherwise.


LOL

Just call him a communist

I think what he means is sometimes lawyers make great stretches as to what is IP… suing over very minor similarities

Magpul didn't invent the magazine

ETA: I am not trying to say that magpul lawsuits are not just… if they won I must trust they are although I have no knowledge on the subject


I do believe though that patent law is sometime abused and sets back progress, specifically is the case of vague and broad patents
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 11:08:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 11:37:34 AM EST
I don't know what type of plastic magazines are made from.

I used to work in the PET industry (polyester plastic).  Our polymer had stuff added to it to give it different color, surface, handling characteristics.

When a lot of filler (stuff that changes it from clear and smooth to something else) was added they usually had to add additional chemicals to keep it from being too brittle/too weak.

So, at least with that type of plastic, no color/surface testure additives resulted in stronger "plastic".  Unless additional chemicals were added, and even then, with some types, there were strength/elasticity issues.
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 11:39:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2015 11:40:18 AM EST by Magpul]
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 11:42:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 1:02:57 PM EST
I prefer Lancers. I have also used ETS mags and they have been great. I have some Pmags too, but I prefer Lancers. I have beat the hell out of an ETS mag and I am really impressed. To each his own.
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 5:06:04 PM EST


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Magpul:
No one called him a communist but he is promoting the concept that defending ones intellectual property is somehow wrong, which IS a longstanding communist fundamental.





Patent law is the law of the land. Expecting individuals and companies to abide by the restrictions of other patents but not defending their own IP is just plain dumb.
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Originally Posted By Magpul:





Originally Posted By southerngunner:




Originally Posted By Magpul:







Sorry to lose you as a customer. That said we defend our intellectual property (ip) as we do our personal property and expect no less from anyone else.





Intellectual property rights were so important to our founding fathers that they ensured it was in the text of the US Constitution itself...




[The Congress shall have Power] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries -Constitution of the United States, Article. I. Section. 8., clause 8: (Clause 8 – Copyrights and Patents)






The concept of no individual intellectual property is a primary Communist ideal.
Much of the core tenets of modern communism stem from their ideas on public property and the definition of ownership in society.  Communist philosophy argues against private property and supports collective ownership.  This philosophy applies specifically to intellectual property and software.  The common view  is that no person should on their own or control any property, whether electronic, merely an idea, or otherwise.






LOL





Just call him a communist





I think what he means is sometimes lawyers make great stretches as to what is IP… suing over very minor similarities





Magpul didn't invent the magazine








No one called him a communist but he is promoting the concept that defending ones intellectual property is somehow wrong, which IS a longstanding communist fundamental.





Patent law is the law of the land. Expecting individuals and companies to abide by the restrictions of other patents but not defending their own IP is just plain dumb.
The law of the land in Colorado is limited capacity mags. Then you moved to a different state. Let's not cite the law if its only selectively cited in your favor

 





Besides, this is a technical forum and so far you've gotten extremely close to calling someone a communist and dumb. Words do indeed have meaning, here's one that recently came to mind: Hubris.







OP was asking about strength issues with translucent magazines. Since Magpul was unable to bring a translucent magazine to the market I don't think you are able to comment on their strength, particularly since you have litigated against competitors that have. It's also very tacky to engage forum users in a combative manner. But maybe you can report me again like last time you disagreed with my opinion. No one asked for a wall of text explaining Magpul's philosophy; a link would have been more than sufficient even though it's borderline off topic.







Independent experiments have shown translucent magazines to withstand plenty of abuse, and exceed other non-translucent designs. The Lancer hybrid design is durable and long lasting. Out of hundreds of cycles through five Gen 1 Lancer magazines I've never experienced a malfunction that can be attributed to the magazine, or experienced any damage, when dropping partially loaded magazines from chest height onto the ground during reloads.







The same holds true for newer Lancer LWM magazines and the ETS magazines, but with much fewer cycles I can't comment on their durability in the same manner as the first generation Lancers.







 
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 7:06:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2015 10:43:44 AM EST by Magpul]
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 7:33:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Magpul:


We are probably one of the most qualified to answer questions regarding translucent magazines, seeing we have tested countless translucent materials since 2007 and even built two translucent production molds.

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=81892

We have not released any translucent designs as we have yet to find one that meets our level of performance (as outlined in the PMag design philosophies posted earlier)

We have never filed a lawsuit regarding a translucent magazine but we have filed against companies violating our published magazine utility patents (ip.magpul.com). If we do not defend our IP we lose it.

I am careful not to insult anyone personally in a technical forum but I will address specific policy issues directly if they come up. I stand by my statements regarding IP (founding fathers vs Communism) and my view that "Expecting individuals and companies to abide by the restrictions of other patents but not defending their own IP is just plain dumb".

NOTE: Patent Law is a Federal law and as such is by definition and "the law of the land" (not to sure how the CO state law comes into it).
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Originally Posted By Magpul:
Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Originally Posted By Magpul:

No one called him a communist but he is promoting the concept that defending ones intellectual property is somehow wrong, which IS a longstanding communist fundamental.

Patent law is the law of the land. Expecting individuals and companies to abide by the restrictions of other patents but not defending their own IP is just plain dumb.
The law of the land in Colorado is limited capacity mags. Then you moved to a different state. Let's not cite the law if its only selectively cited in your favor  

Besides, this is a technical forum and so far you've gotten extremely close to calling someone a communist and dumb. Words do indeed have meaning, here's one that recently came to mind: Hubris.


OP was asking about strength issues with translucent magazines. Since Magpul was unable to bring a translucent magazine to the market I don't think you are able to comment on their strength, particularly since you have litigated against competitors that have. It's also very tacky to engage forum users in a combative manner. But maybe you can report me again like last time you disagreed with my opinion. No one asked for a wall of text explaining Magpul's philosophy; a link would have been more than sufficient even though it's borderline off topic.


Independent experiments have shown translucent magazines to withstand plenty of abuse, and exceed other non-translucent designs. The Lancer hybrid design is durable and long lasting. Out of hundreds of cycles through five Gen 1 Lancer magazines I've never experienced a malfunction that can be attributed to the magazine, or experienced any damage, when dropping partially loaded magazines from chest height onto the ground during reloads.


The same holds true for newer Lancer LWM magazines and the ETS magazines, but with much fewer cycles I can't comment on their durability in the same manner as the first generation Lancers.


We are probably one of the most qualified to answer questions regarding translucent magazines, seeing we have tested countless translucent materials since 2007 and even built two translucent production molds.

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=81892

We have not released any translucent designs as we have yet to find one that meets our level of performance (as outlined in the PMag design philosophies posted earlier)

We have never filed a lawsuit regarding a translucent magazine but we have filed against companies violating our published magazine utility patents (ip.magpul.com). If we do not defend our IP we lose it.

I am careful not to insult anyone personally in a technical forum but I will address specific policy issues directly if they come up. I stand by my statements regarding IP (founding fathers vs Communism) and my view that "Expecting individuals and companies to abide by the restrictions of other patents but not defending their own IP is just plain dumb".

NOTE: Patent Law is a Federal law and as such is by definition and "the law of the land" (not to sure how the CO state law comes into it).

So I can expect that mag to be realased at SHOT show this year, right?
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 10:31:53 PM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Magpul:
For the 1970s the SteyrAUG system as a whole was generations ahead of it's time.



That said the magazines (while advanced) were not without issues. The material was very susceptible to chemicals and round retention under ambient temperatures was marginal at best (in high temperatures rounds would self unload in a rather dramatic fashion).



That said the AUG magazine is still rocking 30 years later while the Ramline magazines were junk the day they were released (10 years after the AUG).
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Originally Posted By Magpul:



Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


Originally Posted By ReaperTN:

ETS mags seem to have a good reputation, and a lifetime warranty. Watched some YouTube vids and was really impressed.  I ordered 2 mags a few days ago to give them a try.



BTW, my experience with clear mags has not been good either.  Bought a couple RamLine clear mags that fit both AR's and Mini-14 back in probably the early 1990's.  What a POS those were.  Brittle plastic body and followers, give them away when I sold the Mini!




SteyrAUG mags predate the Ramline "combo" mags by quite a few years. The Ramline were TOTAL CRAP!




For the 1970s the SteyrAUG system as a whole was generations ahead of it's time.



That said the magazines (while advanced) were not without issues. The material was very susceptible to chemicals and round retention under ambient temperatures was marginal at best (in high temperatures rounds would self unload in a rather dramatic fashion).



That said the AUG magazine is still rocking 30 years later while the Ramline magazines were junk the day they were released (10 years after the AUG).


interesting.  



do you know if the material used in AUG mags improved over the decades since they came out?



 
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 11:46:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Magpul:

...

If we do not defend our IP we lose it.

...

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yep.

I find it amusing that the people screaming loudest about lawyers seem to be the ones that don't have valuable IP to defend.

I have friends who had to fight those battles, unfortunately when overseas production is involved the concept of IP gets lost and theft is the norm.

I don't have piles of mags.  I do have 6 mags right now for the one functioning AR and they all happen to be pmags and they all work just fine.  Thank you for pushing the technology forward and the price down.
Link Posted: 10/24/2015 12:16:50 AM EST
I have several Magpul magazines and they have been 100%, but my Okay Industries mags are my "go to" mags.

I DO want to thank Magpul for continuing to offer their Gen III followers and their Ranger L floor plates. I've spent more than I care to admit on these two upgrades which I consider absolutely necessary upgrades to G.I. Mags.
Link Posted: 10/24/2015 1:09:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Regardless of how much text you post, Lancer and ETS mags have proven for durable than PMAGS. Your advertising and lawyers seem to be doing a great job though.  

Let's not forget the over insertion tabs on the M3 mags cause problems with numerous popular lower receivers including BCM and Noveske, and are not compatible with many aftermarket trigger guards. Over insertion has never been a widespread problem, even with older USGI mags with spread feedlips. Perhaps the over insertion tabs are really to prevent the rear spine of the PMAG  from splitting. Which, was a problem the earlier generations were plagued with after being inserted on a closed bolt that I personally experienced and witnessed after using in competition for less than a year.


https://www.google.com/search?q=pmags+broken&oq=pmags+broken&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.4229j1j4&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

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Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Originally Posted By Magpul:
Originally Posted By NYresq1:
I have beaten an ETS mag to death with not so much as a chip or a crack. I have Pmags both Gen2 and 3, that have have cracked from normal use and mag changes over cement.

I have a couple smoke and one clear lancer mags that I have yet to beat on, but they seem to be just as strong as any others I have tried.

I have no problem using ETS mags or Lancers for duty use or training. I find them to be just as strong or stronger than Pmags, and I have been using them almost exclusively for 10 years.

Massive snip.

Regardless of how much text you post, Lancer and ETS mags have proven for durable than PMAGS. Your advertising and lawyers seem to be doing a great job though.  

Let's not forget the over insertion tabs on the M3 mags cause problems with numerous popular lower receivers including BCM and Noveske, and are not compatible with many aftermarket trigger guards. Over insertion has never been a widespread problem, even with older USGI mags with spread feedlips. Perhaps the over insertion tabs are really to prevent the rear spine of the PMAG  from splitting. Which, was a problem the earlier generations were plagued with after being inserted on a closed bolt that I personally experienced and witnessed after using in competition for less than a year.


https://www.google.com/search?q=pmags+broken&oq=pmags+broken&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.4229j1j4&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8



It does get tiring doesn't it? I got a thousand mags, over 100 PMAGs which I now regret buying because of the shenanigans they pull here. After using and abusing them all, I simply trust my Lancers more than the PMAGs.  Never seen a cracked spine with my Lancers or any other issues.
Link Posted: 10/24/2015 2:30:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2015 9:32:49 AM EST by Magpul]
Link Posted: 10/25/2015 11:38:39 AM EST
Lancers don't break.  ETS mags also appear not to break and feature a lifetime warrantee just in case.  How anyone can spin this is beyond me.  Lancers won Feamster's torture test in SG.  Lancer won "the unscientific plastic magazine test" on AR15.com.  Lancers and ETS took by far the most abuse without breaking and cracking in the "Man vs. Magazine" You Tube test.  No other magazines were close.  I don't know how important it is to have a magazine that doesn't break, (I like and use USGI, which is the most fielded and war proven M16 magazine in existence by far) but there is no way anyone can convince me (or any sane person with an open mind) that  being unbreakable isn't an advantage, no mater what your "philosophy" is, or how well we are "educated".  All things being equal, a magazine that doesn't and cannot break is more desirable than one that does.  Can anyone really argue with that statement????
Link Posted: 10/25/2015 11:50:16 AM EST
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Originally Posted By KurtVF:
Lancers don't break.  ETS mags also appear not to break and feature a lifetime warrantee just in case.  How anyone can spin this is beyond me.  Lancers won Feamster's torture test in SG.  Lancer won "the unscientific plastic magazine test" on AR15.com.  Lancers and ETS took by far the most abuse without breaking and cracking in the "Man vs. Magazine" You Tube test.  No other magazines were close.  I don't know how important it is to have a magazine that doesn't break, (I like and use USGI, which is the most fielded and war proven M16 magazine in existence by far) but there is no way anyone can convince me (or any sane person with an open mind) that  being unbreakable isn't an advantage, no mater what your "philosophy" is, or how well we are "educated".  All things being equal, a magazine that doesn't and cannot break is more desirable than one that does.  Can anyone really argue with that statement????
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The implication is that the material that makes a mag tough, also makes it less reliable because the material doesn't hold dimension as well.

Like you, I also use legit g.i. mags because they are consistently the most reliable over the long haul for me.  
Link Posted: 10/25/2015 2:38:29 PM EST
I have lots of Lancers & Gen2 Pmags w/the Pmags now relegated primarily to range duty where they've seen thousands of rds of use including drops onto hard ground (and occasionally concrete ). Haven't seen one damaged yet outside of the usual scuffs and such and they've been 100% to date.
While I suspect the Lancers will take more abuse (a completely subjective assessment), I wouldn't lose sleep if the only mags I had for my AR's were Gen2 Pmags.
Tomac
Link Posted: 10/25/2015 3:10:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Tomac:
I have lots of Lancers & Gen2 Pmags w/the Pmags now relegated primarily to range duty where they've seen thousands of rds of use including drops onto hard ground (and occasionally concrete ). Haven't seen one damaged yet outside of the usual scuffs and such and they've been 100% to date.
While I suspect the Lancers will take more abuse (a completely subjective assessment), I wouldn't lose sleep if the only mags I had for my AR's were Gen2 Pmags.
Tomac
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I'm not all that hot for Pmags but I ran a set of 12 RevMs to the point of being unreliable.  It took over 15K rounds in a training and match environment to do it and I only had a few malfunctions with those, but retired the entire set due to mileage and the desire to keep things consistent.  I have a set of 6 Gen M2 30s that I use now if I'm going to be working over cement or other hard surfaces.  

I have never personally cracked a Pmag, but I've dropped 'em partially loaded on hard surfaces and slammed 'em in many many times.  I also don't clean my plastic stuff with anything stronger than diluted hand dish washing soap and water.  

I've seen a few cracked Pmags, know a lot of people who have had it happen, and even seen some with entire feed lips broken off (I notice pieces of Pmags on the ground at a lot of ranges) and I seriously wonder what people do to make that happen.  
Link Posted: 10/25/2015 8:23:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2015 11:19:55 PM EST by Magpul]
Link Posted: 10/25/2015 8:37:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2015 8:53:53 PM EST by Magpul]
Link Posted: 10/25/2015 9:41:35 PM EST
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