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Posted: 9/26/2005 12:19:47 PM EDT
Here in the workers' paradise of New York, in the college hamlet of New Paltz where gay marriages abounded last spring, the police have been told that they should not shoot to kill, so dangerous assault rifles should be avoided when challenging suspects shooting at them.


09/26/2005
Police want more assault rifles
By Kathryn Gill , Correspondent
The Daily Freeman

NEW PALTZ - Police Commission Chairman Tom Nolan has presented the Town Board with a request to use the police department's seized assets fund to purchase four AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifles.

Currently, the town police department owns two such firearms. The purchase of four more would ensure that at least one such weapon would be on the field in an officer's patrol car at all times.

The controversial purchase is needed, said Nolan, so that officers would be better equipped to respond to such situations as the New Paltz shooting on June 21, 2001, in which Jared Bozydaj, then 25, went on a shooting spree downtown.

Nolan also cited the Hudson Valley Mall shooting on Feb. 13 as another example of a situation where such weapons would be useful.

Nolan said the AR-15 weapons are more accurate than the rifles currently used by police, and are therefore, safer.

However, Councilwoman Kitty Brown expressed concern about the police acquiring such weapons at Thursday's meeting, during which the board took no action on the request. Brown said she was alarmed by comments made by police officers during a recent demonstration of the AR-15 for the Town Board.

Brown was upset by an officer who said he felt his job was uncompleted when he did not kill Bozydaj.

"You want a weapon that will kill - to me that's a problem," Brown said.

She added, "At the end of the day our New Paltz police contained that man without killing (him). At the demonstration (of the AR-15), I was told he would be dead."

Councilwoman Kathleen Healey, who was originally wary of the new weapons, told the board that when something bothers you, you must look beyond your own emotions.

Through her research of the weapons, Healey concluded that the AR-15 would be safer for officers to use, because shotguns are less accurate.

"I want police to hit the person they are aiming at if, unfortunately, they have to use them," Healey said.

New Paltz resident Ira Margolis voiced strong opposition to such weaponry, bringing with him a steel plate polka-dotted with holes he said were made by the AR-15.

"As the proliferation of this weaponry has increased, so has killing," said Margolis.

Margolis cited enforcers' innate desire to protect themselves, above all else, as reason the guns should not be purchased. He further added that the shooting in Kingston was 20 miles away and had nothing to do with New Paltz.

Dave Elision, who was employed by nearby Bacchus restaurant at the time of the shooting, agreed.

"It's unnecessary," said Ellison, who said he would rather police invest money in weapons that would detain, rather than kill, suspects.

Village Trustee Terry Dungan cited the mistaken killing of Amadu Dialo in New York City as reason the weaponry should not be purchased. The officers fired until their magazines were empty, said Dungan, who feared similar mistakes could happen again.

New Paltz resident Everette Payne had a different reasoning on why the weaponry was not needed.

"All we got is a bunch of cool people who are going to lay off and smoke a joint," said Payne.


©Daily Freeman 2005
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:25:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 12:29:08 PM EDT by wolfgang12]
I have lived here for 38 years and I'm still dumbfounded by these idiots. New York is a lost cause.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:26:17 PM EDT
Morons.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:28:04 PM EDT


Must stop reading news on ARFCOM
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:28:25 PM EDT


Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:28:41 PM EDT
Hell, any criminal willing to take the life of an officer deserves a couple of shots to center mass...

...though of course that is just my "wannabe-ninja, couch-commando" opinion.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:29:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Tex-:
Hell, any criminal willing to take the life of an officer deserves a couple of shots to center mass...

...though of course that is just my "wannabe-ninja, couch-commando" opinion.



I bet this would have a different outcome in Texas.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:30:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 12:32:14 PM EDT by _DR]
Well, with a city name like "New Paltz" maybe the PD should in fact not have guns or dangerous, pointy objects.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:33:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
Well, with a city name like "New Paltz" maybe the PD should in fact not have guns or dangerous, pointy objects.



I think Paltz is the Dutch word for dick-head
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:34:54 PM EDT
They should get AK's instead. They are not as deadly.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:39:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By akethan:
They should get AK's instead. They are not as deadly.



I really feel for those police, though. They are in an impossible position. The criminals have all of the rights here. The local new jail construction has been delayed due to a shortage of satellite TV dishes and reclining chairs.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:40:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:

09/26/2005
Police want more assault rifles
By Kathryn Gill , Correspondent
The Daily Freeman

New Paltz resident Ira Margolis voiced strong opposition to such weaponry, bringing with him a steel plate polka-dotted with holes he said were made by the AR-15.



WTF?! Police weapons can kill an innocent, AR or otherwise. Might as well use something that can also kill the bad guy that thought ahead and brought body armor.

I hope that nobody ever has to bring a steel plate that was NOT polka-dotted from an AR-15 after handguns were unable to stop a person before they killed someone innocent.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:44:35 PM EDT
Maybe they should give the officers sling-shots with bouncy balls so they don't induce any harm on the poor criminals
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:47:32 PM EDT
Well, any antigunner who says they just want dangerous weapons out of the hands of criminals, but they would never think of stopping the police from having such weapons... well, here's your proof, LEO's, they want YOUR guns, too.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:51:42 PM EDT
Wonder if Ira is related to the anti gun bitch here Margolis in Ft. Lauderdale, fruit does not fall very far from the trees today....
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:52:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Well, any antigunner who says they just want dangerous weapons out of the hands of criminals, but they would never think of stopping the police from having such weapons... well, here's your proof, LEO's, they want YOUR guns, too.



Excellent point. They hope if nobody has guns, there will be no crime.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:59:12 PM EDT
That is utterly retarded.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:07:51 PM EDT
The cops should all just arrange to "not be around" when crimes are taking place in New Palsy.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:10:15 PM EDT
so with this information...theortically we arfcommers could take over NY and make our own state.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:14:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 1:16:03 PM EDT by TalonArms_R]
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:14:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:
so with this information...theortically we arfcommers could take over NY and make our own state.



Not a chance of success. I hear the State Police have nerf guns.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:32:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:
so with this information...theortically we arfcommers could take over NY and make our own state.



Not a chance of success. I hear the State Police have nerf guns.




No man, its cool. I got a Red Ryder from Walmart.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:36:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
I have lived here for 38 years and I'm still dumbfounded by these idiots. New York is a lost cause.



I really understand your frustration, but New York isn't a lost cause....the people who are governing it are lost causes....things like this make it just that much more important for New Yorkers to become more pro-active in efforts to, in some cases re-instate, and in other cases, to protect their gun rights. Get serious about it...contact the local NRA....start a protest....march on city hall...make the powers that be listen to your voice...It's one of your most important rights we're talking about here.....I really wish you luck....I used to live in NY, and was thinking about someday getting a vacation home there in the Catskills, but if I can't bring my guns with me, I'd rather stay away. See Ya later, and again, Good-Luck.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:38:44 PM EDT
Homeland Security is THE PEOPLE Keeping and Bearing arms.

I totally agree with the city council - NO AR'S for police unless THE PEOPLE can also have equal rights.

Will someone PLEASE READ the 2nd amendment? Thank you.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:40:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:


"You want a weapon that will kill - to me that's a problem," Brown said.




Yeah, wouldn't want that!




"As the proliferation of this weaponry has increased, so has killing," said Margolis.




PROVE it.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:41:45 PM EDT

"It's unnecessary," said Ellison, who said he would rather police invest money in weapons that would detain, rather than kill, suspects.


In other news violent criminals were investing heavily in technology that would subdue, and not destroy, those that stood in their way.

-Foxxz
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:46:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:


"You want a weapon that will kill - to me that's a problem," Brown said.




Yeah, wouldn't want that!




"As the proliferation of this weaponry has increased, so has killing," said Margolis.




PROVE it.




In the same issue of the paper is a headline "National Crime Rate Holds at 30-Year Low".
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:08:42 PM EDT
I guess one of the things that really bothers me is that the town has told the police "we don't trust you with guns". Shades of Barney Fife? I'm not sure I would stay if I worked in that town.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:11:59 PM EDT
most retarded town board ever... I think they should have showed the footage of the Hollywood Bank shootout...
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:16:19 PM EDT
Well, with a councilwoman's name being "Kitty" I am not at all surprised. I sure hope Kitty does not find herself in a situation where the only thing that would save her is a dead goblin because she would be SOL.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:17:12 PM EDT
pretty retarded...ban all EBR's

Give LEOs rocks of various sizes...to limit over-penetration concerns
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:23:21 PM EDT
Are they pre-state ban guns/pre federal ban guns?? Could an average joe NY state resident buy one?? If not, then tough shit. And I agree they don't need them. If The People are not allowed to have them, because they don't need them, the police shouldn't have them.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:51:39 PM EDT
This is the kind of reason that makes me want to get out of LE and install cable or something.......lol
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:52:08 PM EDT
It's too bad that New Yorkers have to deal with this. The police need the proper tools for the situation at hand. Look at the North Hollywood bank robbery in 1997. If we do not learn from history, history will repeat itself. Criminals someday may not possess fully automatic AK's, but maybe another type of assault weapon. What will the police do? How many lives will it take for the governing body of New Paltz to wake up? It's very sad.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:57:25 PM EDT
I know! Outfit them all with blanks! The intimidation/deterrent effect is still there, and they cant hurt anyone, exept their ears... Someone should go pay 'kitty' a visit in the middle of the night, clunk around and such in her house, maybe when she gets the shit scared out of her, she will think a little different about the use of lethal forceh.gif
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:05:58 PM EDT
New Palz has the politicians they wanted; they VOTED for these people... They didn't inherit the job. By the way, this is the same state that elected Hilary Clinton.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:10:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
Are they pre-state ban guns/pre federal ban guns?? Could an average joe NY state resident buy one?? If not, then tough shit. And I agree they don't need them. If The People are not allowed to have them, because they don't need them, the police shouldn't have them.



The LEOs here are not held to the AWB like we commoners are. But even with the AWB, you can have one of the automatic weapon elements and still be legal, just like the National ban used to be. (except our ban will NEVER go away).
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:14:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSFeldjager:
New Palz has the politicians they wanted; they VOTED for these people... They didn't inherit the job. By the way, this is the same state that elected Hilary Clinton.



New York passed a law that allowed college students to vote where they went to school. New Paltz is a State University campus, and the students just turned out in great numbers and hijacked the town from the residents. The campus political atmosphere makes Cindy Sheehan look like a far right radical. It is truly a socialist indoctrination center.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:16:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
"It's unnecessary," said Ellison, who said he would rather police invest money in weapons that would detain, rather than kill, suspects.©Daily Freeman 2005



What the piss is a "gun that detains, rather than kill"??? Guns and LEO, in a deadly force situation and when there triggers are utilized, are designed to kill. LEO are trained, when they shoot, to shoot center mass, not an arm shot, or leg shot, or shoot the weapon out of the bad guy's hand like in the movies. This is sadhinking.gif
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:23:18 PM EDT
If they want an AR because they say that a shottie is not "strong" enough, well, that's not a very good reason to give the police weaponry that the citizens cannot have. Give them a couple bolt action "evil sniper" rifles instead in .308. Being a bit facitious here but a ban should effect ALL people of a State whether LEO or average Joe. Might make a few Chief of police think a bit before they hop on everybody but us bandwagon. I'd probably say no also if I lived in a banned state or community.

I'd much rather see the LEO's get what they need and us keep our rights in a perfect world.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:24:12 PM EDT
"Homeland Security is THE PEOPLE Keeping and Bearing arms." OH man, I gotta put that one on a tee shirt!


Yeah, when the asshats dont even want LEO's to have em, we know it's gone too far
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:35:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 3:36:48 PM EDT by AKsRule]
I am SOOOOOOOOO happy I don't live in NY anymore!

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:35:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 3:36:08 PM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:

Originally Posted By photoman:
Are they pre-state ban guns/pre federal ban guns?? Could an average joe NY state resident buy one?? If not, then tough shit. And I agree they don't need them. If The People are not allowed to have them, because they don't need them, the police shouldn't have them.



The LEOs here are not held to the AWB like we commoners are. But even with the AWB, you can have one of the automatic weapon elements and still be legal, just like the National ban used to be. (except our ban will NEVER go away).



that was kinda my point. I don't believe that the police should have at their disposal anything that the people themselves can not, that includes post 86MGs. I have no problem with LE having the tools, so long as those same tools are available to The People.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:50:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

that was kinda my point. I don't believe that the police should have at their disposal anything that the people themselves can not, that includes post 86MGs. I have no problem with LE having the tools, so long as those same tools are available to The People.



This is a blue state with the typical blue state mentality that wants all power/perks/control at the top. Make laws, not liberty.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:01:00 PM EDT
I'm stunned by reading that.

R.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:01:53 PM EDT

______________________________________________________________________
New York passed a law that allowed college students to vote where they went to school. New Paltz is a State University campus, and the students just turned out in great numbers and hijacked the town from the residents. The campus political atmosphere makes Cindy Sheehan look like a far right radical. It is truly a socialist indoctrination center.
_______________________________________________________________________


Berkeley in the Northeast?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:04:12 PM EDT
The cops should strike. Blue flue that has no cure, except AR15s.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:19:31 PM EDT
Guns could kill.........wait, better stop hiring women. They could turn in to prostitutes.

Gotta be proactive, not reactive!
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:34:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:

New Paltz resident Everette Payne had a different reasoning on why the weaponry was not needed.

"All we got is a bunch of cool people who are going to lay off and smoke a joint," said Payne.





I think this is the most telling statement of the entire article.

If all the town wants to do is lay off and smoke, then they're living on borrowed time.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:43:09 PM EDT
With an AR15 you are more likely to "severely kill" someone
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:45:51 PM EDT
Feel free to use this format in your resignation letter;

To whom it may concern,

I quit.


P.S. Fuck you
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