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Posted: 8/30/2004 8:16:41 PM EST
I notice in a lot of pictures of people torquing the barrel nuts that they have the torque wrench in line with the barrel wrench. I learned many years ago that when you use any offset attachment on a torque wrench the attachment must be at a right angle to the torque wrench or a new value must be computed using a formula. If the attachment in in line with the wrench it throws the torque reading off, applying more torque to the nut than is indicated on the wrench. Just thought I'd mention this in case some people didn't know.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:21:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:39:32 PM EST
That would be great if all barrel nut wrenches were the same, but there are a ton of different ones out there. Not only that, but the formula for using adapters includes the length of the torque wrench. Again, there are a ton of different torque wrenches on the market. Any torque values written in military manuals are done with standardized military tools, which most of us don't use.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:32:50 AM EST
Most people don't torque anyway.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:19:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Houndawg:
I notice in a lot of pictures of people torquing the barrel nuts that they have the torque wrench in line with the barrel wrench.


Because that is the way the Army expects them to do it - the torque values are calibrated to that setup.

It's covered in the -23 in chapter 3 (nice picture and all).


Any torque values written in military manuals are done with standardized military tools, which most of us don't use


The values are based on using the Military Combination Tool (which many of us - myself included do use) and a standard torque wrench (available at Sears, Home Depot, Auto Mart etc..).

It's not like they use a custom torque wrench like we build for the things like the F-22s Radar.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:35:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Houndawg:
That would be great if all barrel nut wrenches were the same, but there are a ton of different ones out there. Not only that, but the formula for using adapters includes the length of the torque wrench. Again, there are a ton of different torque wrenches on the market. Any torque values written in military manuals are done with standardized military tools, which most of us don't use.



Since as you say, we don't use some kind of standardized torque wrench, then it doesn't matter what angle you have the wrench at since all our readings will be different anyways.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:42:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:

Originally Posted By Houndawg:
That would be great if all barrel nut wrenches were the same, but there are a ton of different ones out there. Not only that, but the formula for using adapters includes the length of the torque wrench. Again, there are a ton of different torque wrenches on the market. Any torque values written in military manuals are done with standardized military tools, which most of us don't use.



Since as you say, we don't use some kind of standardized torque wrench, then it doesn't matter what angle you have the wrench at since all our readings will be different anyways.




You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:45:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:59:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Houndawg:

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:

Originally Posted By Houndawg:
That would be great if all barrel nut wrenches were the same, but there are a ton of different ones out there. Not only that, but the formula for using adapters includes the length of the torque wrench. Again, there are a ton of different torque wrenches on the market. Any torque values written in military manuals are done with standardized military tools, which most of us don't use.



Since as you say, we don't use some kind of standardized torque wrench, then it doesn't matter what angle you have the wrench at since all our readings will be different anyways.




You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about.



Well, I'm here to learn, please explain...
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:05:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By eodinert:
Most people don't torque anyway.



+10



+12

Yeah, just line up the nut for the gas tube. That is all that you can do. You will know if you are too loose and you will most definately know if you are too tight.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:25:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:

Originally Posted By Houndawg:

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:

Originally Posted By Houndawg:
That would be great if all barrel nut wrenches were the same, but there are a ton of different ones out there. Not only that, but the formula for using adapters includes the length of the torque wrench. Again, there are a ton of different torque wrenches on the market. Any torque values written in military manuals are done with standardized military tools, which most of us don't use.



Since as you say, we don't use some kind of standardized torque wrench, then it doesn't matter what angle you have the wrench at since all our readings will be different anyways.




You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about.



Well, I'm here to learn, please explain...




Standardized meaning brands and styles of wrenches are all different lenths.

The formula is: Tw=(Ta*L)/(L+E)

Tw= the reading on the wrench
Ta= the actual torque desired
L= the length of the torque wrench
E= the length of the adapter

Since the are different combo tools and different torque wrenches on the market, the variables in the formula would change. The values in the Army manual would work if you were using the same model of combo tool and same model of torque wrench as was used by the Army when they wrote the manual. But since the wrench you buy at Sears or off the Snap-On truck is most likely different than the one the guys who wrote the manual used, the formula comes into play.

Then again, since nobody uses a torque wrench, it doesn't matter. It would be interesting to see what people actually have their barrel nuts torqued to.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:20:11 PM EST
There is NOT one "correct" torque that will allow the notch to line up. There is only "too loose" and "tight enough".

Once you are "tight enough" (31 ft-lb if you want a number), you proceed to alignment. How much more torque it requires does not matter. Once you achieve "tight enough", where the barrel will not wobble in the receiver, you should remove the torque wrench and replace it with a breaker bar.

You cannot back off from 31 ft-lb to achieve alignment, as it will be too loose, the barrel will wobble in the receiver. You can only go the other way, tighter. Whatever it is, it is.

So, why does the military have the torque figure, all that jazz? Well, it's the MILITARY! They have "milspec" for everything. They probably have a milspec for how many sheets of toilet paper you can use per visit to the crapper. OK, that is an exaggeration. But I will bet they have a milspec for how many mil's thick the TP must be, and how many pieces on a roll, as well as width and length per piece. That is the way the military, and our govt does things.

OK, what about that 31 ft-lb? Well, truth be told, you could do as well with a 25 ft-lb minimum. Come on, don't tell me you never put a water pump, a starter, an alternator, or whatever on your car, without the aid of a torque wrench. Changed a tire... did you use a torque wrench? How did you know when it was tight? You could FEEL it was tight enough, right?

Same with the barrel nut. You can tell when it is tight. Nothing magic here. This ain't rocket surgery. Just get it tight enough, then advance to alignment. That's all there is to it.
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