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Posted: 10/15/2004 1:02:42 PM EST
There is so many damn AR parts that I don't what to do any more. My plan was to get a stripped lower which I did get (an Ameetec) and add a Model 1 M4 kit, but now I'm hearing Model 1 sucks so I'm starting to doubt them. If I go with RRA parts or something along those lines it's going to end up costing me as much as a factory complete RRA rifle. My original plans were to build a M4 for under $600 which could be done with a Model 1 kit, but I don't like their M4 buttstock so I'd have to add my own for about $70 and I hear their lower parts suck and that would be another $55 for a different LPK . Add this stuff up ($460 Model 1 complete M4 upper with chrome barrel, $55 for LPK, about $70 for M4 buttstock, $90 for the stripped lower) and I'm near the price of a RRA since I can get one from Eaglearms for $719 minus a carrying handle, and they're nice with the Hogue pistol grip.

I'm about ready to sell my Ameetec lower and just re-think the whole process.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:33:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 1:34:08 PM EST by Big-Bore]
It's not so much the saving of money, but the ability to spread it out over time. I buy my lowers, then the individual lower parts sans trigger parts from Brownells. Since I have an 03 C&R I get dealer price so I get all the lower parts sans FCG for about $36.00. Then I throw in a White Oak Armament RR tuned trigger later, $115, followed by the buttstock of choice, which lately seems to be the ACE M4 SOCOM, another $154.00, and I am not even thinking about the upper yet. I end up spending a lot more, but when I am done I have spread out the cost over time and get exactly what I want, something I have yet to be able to do with ANY fully assembled rifle. If the bottom line is the only concern I'm not sure what to tell you. To build a run of the mill AR which can be bought fairly cheaply as a factory build, not much money, if any, is to be saved. Check out DPMS rifles. They are decent rifles and can be bought fairly cheaply fully assembled and ready to fire.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:38:03 PM EST
It's also being able to build the gun you really want for the same cost as a cookie cutter AR.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:52:03 PM EST
I started with a stripped lower and built the exact midlength I wanted with an M&A kit. Cost was under $600 (including a used Colt carry handle) and I got just what I wanted. I'm happy with the quality, too. It CAN be done--do your homework and shop around.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 1:26:55 PM EST
Plus you get to learn how your rifle works so if you want to change something or something has to be fixed you can do it yourself
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 1:47:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 1:59:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tweak:
this is why I recommend that noobs buy their first rifle.



Sorry for being off topic but Tweak your box (avatar area etc.)
on the right side seems to be wider than everyone elses, I never seen
this before,what gives?

GM
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 2:37:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 4:15:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 4:17:16 PM EST by Ghost-Shooter]
Eagle Firearms has complete RRA M4geries for $719. It has a chrome lined barrel and a 6 position M4 style telestock. Also, it says it has the 2 stage trigger (which is the 2 stage match trigger from RRA, I imagine) which normally retails for around $95 or so. If you were to call up Eagle Firearms, I'm sure they would be happy to switch out the 2 stage trigger for a detachable carry handle rear sight (or you could just sell it on EE and use the money to buy a ARMS #40) It also has the fat handguards, a front side sling swivel and a Hogue grip, which are usually "upgrade items" (the Hogue normally retails for around $18, the side sling is $20 and the fat handguards is around $10) Either way, you are looking at around $725 for a complete factory rifle with a factory warranty from a reputable board sponsor vendor.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:56:27 PM EST
Yeah, the RRA from Eagle Firearms for $719 is what started this whole topic. It's a great deal.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 7:00:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 9:22:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 9:26:38 PM EST by Ellery_Holt]

Originally Posted By Tweak:
It's a special feature for special members



A status that began with the special bus, perhaps?

Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:01:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By 89grand:
There is so many damn AR parts that I don't what to do any more. My plan was to get a stripped lower which I did get (an Ameetec) and add a Model 1 M4 kit, but now I'm hearing Model 1 sucks so I'm starting to doubt them. If I go with RRA parts or something along those lines it's going to end up costing me as much as a factory complete RRA rifle. My original plans were to build a M4 for under $600 which could be done with a Model 1 kit, but I don't like their M4 buttstock so I'd have to add my own for about $70 and I hear their lower parts suck and that would be another $55 for a different LPK . Add this stuff up ($460 Model 1 complete M4 upper with chrome barrel, $55 for LPK, about $70 for M4 buttstock, $90 for the stripped lower) and I'm near the price of a RRA since I can get one from Eaglearms for $719 minus a carrying handle, and they're nice with the Hogue pistol grip.

I'm about ready to sell my Ameetec lower and just re-think the whole process.



i am in the same boat, i have been looking at m&a kits/uppers. i was looking at model1 but read so many horror stories lately, i emailed them a couple of times and they come off rather arrogant.

that rra complete ar is nice. i guess you would have to add ~$20/shipping and $20-$30 for ffl transfer, which would put it ~$760 plus a rear sight. i guess it is a personal thing, i am planning on getting a stripped lower from ameetec (is the quality as good as everyong states?), a rra lpk, a stock i like then a m&a flattop 16" upper. i don't really plan on saving any $$$ but it will be exactly as i like it and i will learn more about how an ar works, which is priceless, then any $$$ i save. i guess that is why i still build my own computers - i could get a cheaper one from dell, but the way i build them is exactly the way i want them.

from what i have read m&a uses the wilson match barrels also, and doc from m&a has always answered any questions i have emailed him promptly - real professional in my opinion.

to anybody who knows - what is the approximate weight difference between a 16 Heavy Barrel and and a 16" M4 Barrel?

thanks :)
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:15:05 PM EST
Yeah I know there is a lot of places to get kits. I've checked them all out. Here's the problem, I can get a RRA M4 style rifle with a chrome lined barrel, Hogue grip and a 2 stage trigger for $719. The only thing that's not included is a carrying handle.

Now lets look at some of the kits available. I will compare as close as possible the kit prices for a kit that is comparable to the RRA including chrome lining, grips and trigger. Plus $90 for the Ameetec lower I already bought.

Model 1 Sales: M4 style kit =$520 without carrying handle. Add a Hogue grip for $20 and a comparable trigger for about $95. Total price = $725 for a Frankengun of lesser quality and lesser re-sale value and less features compared to the RRA.

M&A: M4 style kit = $505. No chrome lining available and A2 style upper not A3. Add Hogue grip and comparable trigger for $115 for a total of $710 for a Frankengun of lesser quality and re-sale value and no where near the features of the RRA.

J&T Distributing: M4 style kit with 2 stage trigger, chrome lined barrel =$650 without carring handle. Add a Hogue grip and the total is $760 that is also a Frankengun of lesser quality and re-sale value compared to the RRA rifle.

It's starting to seem like the only way a one of the above kits makes sense is if you are building a basic CAR. You can build a Model 1 or M&A CAR for around $520 including a stripped lower. That's a good price but it won't have a chrome lined barrel, it won't be a M4 style, it won't have a M4 buttstock and it won't be in the same league as the RRA.

That was my plan when I first joined here, to build a cheap CAR but after finding out about M4's and chrome lining and stuff I'm starting to change my mind. I'd hate to have over $500 in a gun that I wish was actually something better. Maybe it's just a better idea to spend $200 more and have a good quality rifle so I won't want to get rid of it or change it because it wasn't what I really wanted. I thought about getting a complete RRA upper from ADCO and getting a complete lower from Eagle Firearms but it would still cost more than getting the complete rifle from Eagle for $719. I can understand building one if saving money is not your reason. It was mine, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Some of you tried to warn me.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:40:29 PM EST
I just had a new idea. Keep the Ameetec lower($90), add a RRA LPK($55), a RRA M4 buttstock($69), a Hogue grip ($20)and get a RRA M4 upper with a carrying handle and chrome lined barrel from ADCO($520).

Basically the same RRA rifle at Eagle Firearms minus the 2 stage trigger and on a Ameetec lower but with a carrying handle for $755 plus shipping but no transfer fees.

It never ends. I've been thinking about AR's non-stop for over a month now. Ideas of different kits, different rifles. Don't worry though, I'll come up with a new "better idea" in the next few days.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:44:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By 89grand:
Yeah I know there is a lot of places to get kits. I've checked them all out. Here's the problem, I can get a RRA M4 style rifle with a chrome lined barrel, Hogue grip and a 2 stage trigger for $719. The only thing that's not included is a carrying handle.

Now lets look at some of the kits available. I will compare as close as possible the kit prices for a kit that is comparable to the RRA including chrome lining, grips and trigger. Plus $90 for the Ameetec lower I already bought.

Model 1 Sales: M4 style kit =$520 without carrying handle. Add a Hogue grip for $20 and a comparable trigger for about $95. Total price = $725 for a Frankengun of lesser quality and lesser re-sale value and less features compared to the RRA.

M&A: M4 style kit = $505. No chrome lining available and A2 style upper not A3. Add Hogue grip and comparable trigger for $115 for a total of $710 for a Frankengun of lesser quality and re-sale value and no where near the features of the RRA.

J&T Distributing: M4 style kit with 2 stage trigger, chrome lined barrel =$650 without carring handle. Add a Hogue grip and the total is $760 that is also a Frankengun of lesser quality and re-sale value compared to the RRA rifle.

It's starting to seem like the only way a one of the above kits makes sense is if you are building a basic CAR. You can build a Model 1 or M&A CAR for around $520 including a stripped lower. That's a good price but it won't have a chrome lined barrel, it won't be a M4 style, it won't have a M4 buttstock and it won't be in the same league as the RRA.

That was my plan when I first joined here, to build a cheap CAR but after finding out about M4's and chrome lining and stuff I'm starting to change my mind. I'd hate to have over $500 in a gun that I wish was actually something better. Maybe it's just a better idea to spend $200 more and have a good quality rifle so I won't want to get rid of it or change it because it wasn't what I really wanted. I thought about getting a complete RRA upper from ADCO and getting a complete lower from Eagle Firearms but it would still cost more than getting the complete rifle from Eagle for $719. I can understand building one if saving money is not your reason. It was mine, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Some of you tried to warn me.



just an fyi - i contacted m&a and was told that for a basic car(either a2 or a3) kit it would be $50 more for chrome lining, the same price as a ss 1:8 barrel (another toss up), which i think brings it to $475, plus the $90 for your ameetec and another $20/shipping. so it is about $600, just for a car, not m4. i can definately see what you are saying and have pondered exactly what you are doing for some time also.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:46:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 10:46:46 PM EST by bob332]
as you can see in my user info i joined in 07/03, i have been torturing myself for a long time. plus i have ocd which just drives me nuts!!!!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 1:32:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 1:37:02 AM EST by azeagle]
$90.00 = Ameetec Lower (You already have that)
$90.00 = Ameetec M4 Tactical Buttstock (Complete Assembly)
$130.00 = Ameetec A3 T-Rail Marked Flat-top Upper Receiver - Complete
$115.00 = RRA Bolt Carrier Assembly/Bolt + Charging Handle
$54.00 = RRA Lower Parts Kit
$20.00 = Hogue Black Rubber Grip

Total = 499.00 Plus some tax and shipping charges.

Then just add your barrel of choice. You might be able to find a little lower prices on some of the stuff. That list it just off the top of my head. But for things like the lower and bolt carrier assembly/bolt + charging handle thats about the lowest I have seen those for. Depending on the price of the barrel who knows, you might still be under $700.00. And the two stage trigger may not necessarily be best for your rifle. It depends on what you will do with it.

Edited to add that I forgot the hand gaurds, check those out for yourself. I ain't gunna do all the work for ya. You might try sights like Gunbroker for some of the stuff too. You might be able to find some of it cheaper there.


Link Posted: 10/17/2004 10:29:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By azeagle:
$90.00 = Ameetec Lower (You already have that)
$90.00 = Ameetec M4 Tactical Buttstock (Complete Assembly)
$72.00 = 6 position collapsable from RB Precision
$130.00 = Ameetec A3 T-Rail Marked Flat-top Upper Receiver - Complete
$94.00 = RRA A3 upper, complete, from RB Precision
$115.00 = RRA Bolt Carrier Assembly/Bolt + Charging Handle
$54.00 = RRA Lower Parts Kit
$20.00 = Hogue Black Rubber Grip

Total = $499.00 $445.00 Plus some tax and shipping charges.




RB Precision
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:17:28 AM EST
Well I did say he might be able to find some of those parts cheaper and that the list was just off the top of my head. After all, I haven't been looking to build an M4 so I don't think I did all that bad.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 1:33:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By 89grand:
It never ends. I've been thinking about AR's non-stop for over a month now. Ideas of different kits, different rifles. Don't worry though, I'll come up with a new "better idea" in the next few days.



Best not to think too long. My first AR project started in August with an order for a RRA lower. The plan was a basic AR for beginner use. As time passed with no delivery date in sight, I became conflicted, much like you seem to be right now. I considered many options, including just purchasing a complete rifle to get it over with. Eventually, my money-saving plan disappeared and I ended up with some really nice, but expensive, equipment. You have been warned.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 1:51:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 1:57:15 PM EST by CDKayak]
I agree with ghost-shooter's edits to the list. I've had good experience with RB Precision. Del-ton has some good prices on 'post-ban' barrels they're trying to clear out at the moment, you may find something you like there. Get it threaded and put a FS on it later.

Del-ton

CDK
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 9:33:01 PM EST
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