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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/22/2005 1:50:56 PM EDT
I was reading in the HK91 Forum and they were talking about that platform being made to slam the bolt shut (as opposed to the AR platform I guess).

I have a 3 year old Bushmaster and I've shot a couple thousand rounds through it I suppose. I ride the charging handle when I am cleaning and/or function-checking. Otherwise, I just push the bolt-release and let 'er slam shut after I load another mag. Is this okay? Any increased bolt or extractor wear from doing this? It seems like it's friggin' supposed to work this way! I never really thought it was a problem (and still don't). But I'd like to know if I'm causing extra wear from doing this. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:53:00 PM EDT
You're not hurting it a bit. The bolt locks back on an empty mag, you swap it for a full mag, slap the bolt release, and start firing again. No problem.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:09:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
You're not hurting it a bit. The bolt locks back on an empty mag, you swap it for a full mag, slap the bolt release, and start firing again. No problem.



Thanks man. I was pretty sure of that. Dunno why crappy info like that gets passed on. And I really LIKE the sound of my bolt slamming shut!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:15:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
You're not hurting it a bit. The bolt locks back on an empty mag, you swap it for a full mag, slap the bolt release, and start firing again. No problem.



+1

Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,­Bang,Bang,Bang,
Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,B­ang,Bang,
Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Ba­ng,
Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,--bang--.........shrick, slap-click!, slam!...Bang,Bang,Bang,ect...ect...ect...
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:44:46 PM EDT
On a loaded mag, the bolt does not slam shut. It is cushioned somewhat by pushing the round out of the mag and into the chamber.

And yeah, it does sound good!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:48:00 PM EDT
Bang away. The extractor only comes into play when acrual rounds are being fed from the mag and while firing.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:08:29 PM EDT
SLAM THAT SH!T! That how she works.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:56:47 PM EDT
slam bang thank you ma'am!

don't fear the slam!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:15:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 5:15:28 PM EDT by metalsaber]

Originally Posted By CB1:
slam bang thank you ma'am!

don't fear the slam!

slam it. Why would they make it if you weren't going to slam it.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:19:43 PM EDT
slam it, then ride it, then nail it, then hit it, then give it a dirty sanchez.

lol...fwiw... i've always seen it slammed.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:21:57 PM EDT
I do the same thing.Function checking or cleaning or just showing I dont let the bolt slam on an empty chamber.When charging or reloading during live fire I let it go.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:46:14 PM EDT
I would suggest you not ride the carry handle at all.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:51:22 PM EDT
When you fire it , it is being slamed , so slam away !
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:58:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IceMan_1:
When you fire it , it is being slamed , so slam away !


+1. That should be obvious, dontcha think?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:00:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I would suggest you not ride the carry handle at all.



I agree.......Same goes with a partial full mag when you have misfire or jam - Extract the AFU round with carrier handle/charging handle to the full back position and left her fly into battery with a new round.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:15:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I would suggest you not ride the carry handle at all.



I was gonna say the same thing. Bad habit.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:11:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:14:52 PM EDT
Unless it's a plastic vulcan gun, slam away...
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:19:08 PM EDT
I say slam it hard......and slam it often.......it is the only way to keep it used to being slammed....
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:47:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:23:41 AM EDT
the only time you ride it is if you're trying to be real quiet and stuff... why you'd hvae to do that though I don't know since the round should be in the chamber..

I was a PMI for the Marine Corps and riding it home was never even an option.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:43:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:15:41 AM EDT
Slam it. When the bolt strips a round off the mag, the BC really doesn't lock up that harshly, and it was designed to be released in this manner.

However, there is a caveat.

IF you should be loading only one round...and this is really important...make SURE you load the round off the mag and NOT load the round by hand-into the chamber-and then release the bolt carrier. The lack of friction seen by the bolt carrier can cause the floating firing pin on the AR (or M14) to cause a slamfire. That would be bad.

Outside of that, slam it. That's how Stoner designed the thing.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:14:56 AM EDT
Holy Writ (the -10) speaks to this issue, and should be hammered into malleable heads full of mush:
DO NOT RIDE THE CARRY HANDLE.
That is all.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:24:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 6:25:19 AM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By tarfu64:IF you should be loading only one round...and this is really important...make SURE you load the round off the mag and NOT load the round by hand-into the chamber-and then release the bolt carrier. The lack of friction seen by the bolt carrier can cause the floating firing pin on the AR (or M14) to cause a slamfire. That would be bad.


Bullshit. Highpower shooter have been loading AR15s like that during the slowfire stages of the match ever since the AR15 became competitive in the mid 90s.

Not a single rifle that is properly assembled will slamfire when loaded that way. It will leave a tiny little dimple on the primer that is FAR from what is necessary to set the round off.

I've done what you advise against literally over one thousand times, and nothing has ever happened. I am willing to bet nothing ever will, either.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:03:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By IceMan_1:
When you fire it , it is being slamed , so slam away !


+1. That should be obvious, dontcha think?



Was to me, that's why I never even questioned it until some HK91 user insinuated that the '91 was designed to do it, while other designs weren't. I figured he was full of it, but it never hurts to ask and be sure of such matters when your $1,000 gun is at stake. That should be obvious as well, dontcha think?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:08:51 AM EDT
Certainly no harm in asking, and much better to ask here, than to be laughed while out with friends.....
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 8:55:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By IceMan_1:
When you fire it , it is being slamed , so slam away !


+1. That should be obvious, dontcha think?



Was to me, that's why I never even questioned it until some HK91 user insinuated that the '91 was designed to do it, while other designs weren't. I figured he was full of it, but it never hurts to ask and be sure of such matters when your $1,000 gun is at stake. That should be obvious as well, dontcha think?


Since all semi auto rifles slam their bolts shut when being fired, a little critical thinking would have dismissed some HK 91 user's comment as dumb.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:48:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 10:49:56 AM EDT by Red_Label]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By IceMan_1:
When you fire it , it is being slamed , so slam away !


+1. That should be obvious, dontcha think?



Was to me, that's why I never even questioned it until some HK91 user insinuated that the '91 was designed to do it, while other designs weren't. I figured he was full of it, but it never hurts to ask and be sure of such matters when your $1,000 gun is at stake. That should be obvious as well, dontcha think?


Since all semi auto rifles slam their bolts shut when being fired, a little critical thinking would have dismissed some HK 91 user's comment as dumb.



There are NO dumb questions, only dumbass responses!
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:58:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By tarfu64:IF you should be loading only one round...and this is really important...make SURE you load the round off the mag and NOT load the round by hand-into the chamber-and then release the bolt carrier. The lack of friction seen by the bolt carrier can cause the floating firing pin on the AR (or M14) to cause a slamfire. That would be bad.


Bullshit. Highpower shooter have been loading AR15s like that during the slowfire stages of the match ever since the AR15 became competitive in the mid 90s.

Not a single rifle that is properly assembled will slamfire when loaded that way. It will leave a tiny little dimple on the primer that is FAR from what is necessary to set the round off.

I've done what you advise against literally over one thousand times, and nothing has ever happened. I am willing to bet nothing ever will, either.



My understanding is that the slam fire is only an issue with rounds that have been loaded into the rifle many times. Over time the dimple gets bigger, and bigger, and then BAM!!!
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:38:40 PM EDT
You pays your money, you takes your chances. I would never argue with a guy who has done something "thousands of times" and never had a bad experience. That's akin to the dude who has reloaded for 20 years and NEVER had a double charge until he peppered his face with fragments from his blown receiver from a double charge. Although I've never had a slamfire, and God knows I'm certain you're years and thousands of rounds of shooting trumps mine, I also won't purposely do something which is known to have caused slamfires in our type of weapons. I can fuck up enough on my own, I don't need any help. Despite the weapon being "properly assembled".

Besides, you've shot more than me, therefore you must know. I bow to your greater expertise.

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:30:53 AM EDT
Just a small note on the physics/dynamics on the possibility of a slamfire from repeated hits on the same round when letting an AR bolt "slam" home. Never say "never", but if you have ever tried to push a pointed wooden stake into the ground bare handed, you find that the initial part of the point goes in very easy, but as you try to push it in further/deeper, there is more and more resistance since more and more surface is being encountered. The same principle is involved with the firing pin aginst the primer. It becomes harder and harder for the limited inertia of the firing pin to displace or deepen the pocket it makes in the primer to where it would have enough momentum to cause the friction of the inside of the primer pocket to crush the compound against the anvil with enough force to create the friction to make the spark.

Possible, yes. Probable, no.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:45:11 AM EDT
My FN-built A2 puts a dimple in each and every primer I've ever chambered and not shot. (course, it puts an even BIGGER dimple in the ones it shoots)

The Army has purchased a bunch of Beamshot/Beamhit laser units, and part of the manual of arms for using them consists of short-stroking the charging handle and riding it forward so that it doesn't damage/throw off the laser unit's zero. No-one in the chain of command wants to hear from me bitching about how teaching a different manual of arms is a BAD thing, especially since they just spent all that money in a fouled up system.

I get tired of how the Army doesn't give a shit about small arms stuff.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:15:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tarfu64:
You pays your money, you takes your chances. I would never argue with a guy who has done something "thousands of times" and never had a bad experience. That's akin to the dude who has reloaded for 20 years and NEVER had a double charge until he peppered his face with fragments from his blown receiver from a double charge. Although I've never had a slamfire, and God knows I'm certain you're years and thousands of rounds of shooting trumps mine, I also won't purposely do something which is known to have caused slamfires in our type of weapons. I can fuck up enough on my own, I don't need any help. Despite the weapon being "properly assembled".

Besides, you've shot more than me, therefore you must know. I bow to your greater expertise.



Suit yourself. Just don't ever come to a highpower match. You will piss your pants at all the slam fires waiting to happen.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:50:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 10:52:29 AM EDT by tarfu64]
www.fulton-armory.com/SlamFire2.htm



Just one of the many references on the subject.

Merry Christmas.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:23:42 PM EDT
Actually, it is best to just let the HK91bolt fly free to insure a total lockup. I dont know if this is an HK quirk but the HK G36 absolutely will not lock and fire if you ride the bolt ,it is designed to fly free. The first time I fired one I had eased the bolt shut and when I pulled the trigger- "click" is all I got.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:46:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tarfu64:
www.fulton-armory.com/SlamFire2.htm



Just one of the many references on the subject.

Merry Christmas.


Fultom Armory sell a "cure" for a non-existent "problem".

Like I said, experience trumps theory all the time.
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