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Posted: 5/3/2004 11:32:08 PM EST
Okay Gentlemen and Ladies (perhaps),

I bring to you the question that will raise debate among all of us and, I am sure, has been asked before. What AR-15 builder truly makes the best AR-15 rifle? Before you answer, let me first point out that we are going to target most of the general public. That means hunters, target shooters, and anyone just wanting to buy an AR-15. So forget putting together the ultimate AR-15 Sniper Package or something custom. It has to be a turnkey rifle with the exception of a scope. Next, it has to be within a reasonable cost. I will specify the cost between $800.00 up to $1300.00. Obviously those of you who swear by Stoner Rifles will not be able to answer that Stoner is the best since it is beyond this price limit. I, myself, believe in the Stoner product, but we are looking for quality at a good price. In answering the question, I ask you to pay close attention to the reliability of the rifle and its' ability in actual combat and/or hunting. Also consider its' MOA at 100 yards and , in a different configuration, its' ability in CQB. I will include, for the caliber, 223, 308 and even the DPMS 300 SAUM. I have originally posted this same question in the Bushmaster thread because I believe, that for the price, they are difficult to beat, but I want to hear from Bushmaster owners as I am sure "not all" bought a Bushmaster the first time out. I have come to realize that many afficionado's of the AR, buying much higher end AR's, have found themselves comfortable with the purchase of a Bushmaster. I think that says a lot about the Company. So....AR owners....let's see what we get.

No...I am not biased to Bushmasters....just seen many out there. Many "happy" owners. I like many AR-15's, one of which is Bushmaster. I do have respect for many other AR-15 builders.

Thanks

MR_1719
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:52:11 PM EST
I think your question is too broad when you throw in assorted calibers ad barrel lengths.

For me, the answer is whatever variant I choose to build for myself. I wouldn't buy another over the counter AR.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:41:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 12:51:26 AM EST by white24]
Thats a tough one, an endless argument and debate... This may sound sillly but I like this quote, no matter what rifle you have.. "We will become part of each other. We will.."
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:46:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 6:02:38 AM EST by RAMBOSKY]
Over the years I have bought the "basic" AR and have added and deleted various combinations of barrels and accessories, grips, stocks, forearms, sights, etc.. to suit my needs and tastes.

You should do the same. It's a matter of personal preference and the application you intendend it for.
I'm not about to do your homework since I really know nothing about you.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:36:54 AM EST
I'm with RAMBOSKY,

Ever since I started building my own, I'll never go back to buying complete rifles. I will always use quality parts, such as Bushmaster, Colt, Knight's, DD, etc., but there are very few complete rifles that suit my specific likes and needs. I have only bought one factory rifle, but it doesn't look like that rifle I bought anymore. My other two were scratch builds.

The opinion here is that Colt is the best out there - it is hard to argue with that, although it appears that they don't cater to the civilian market too much. I would think Bushmaster is a good second - they seem to own the civilian market. Rock River is another good one - they have had some growing pains, but seem on top of any problems that show up. DPMS & Olympic both have been around awhile and make decent rifles.

Custom shops like JP Rifles, Les Baer, Compass Lake, Wilson Combat and others all make high quality custom setups, but you pay for that quality.

Lately there has been a surge in aftermarket lowers, like MEGA, Stinger, Stag and others that are producing quality parts that can be used to make some decent rifles.

It seems to be a good time to be an AR enthusiast (better if/when the useless AWB goes away), as there are more options now than have been available before. With good shopping, you can make a decent, plain Jane rifle for around $500 or so. Maybe even cheaper.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:54:30 AM EST
W. T. F is up with ARMALITE !!!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 10:04:13 AM EST
Gentlemen,

First, thank you for your responses. I appreciate all of your inputs. I apologize I did not introduce myself, but I was hoping that may not be necessary. In any case, I am a retired SWAT officer in a group of retired SOG Operatives. This group are friends of mine from SEALS (one of which is still a SEAL), 11 Special Forces, Rangers, Secret Service (still assigned), and SWAT. In the field, I have definitely been "combat tested" and still have the respect of my Team and other comrades at arms. Anyway, enough of me. I am sure many of you are from similar groups and I give you my utter respect for the missions you have returned from.

My friends and I were in somewhat of a heated debate over who was the best AR-15 builder. And yes, like you, we all chose to build our own. I thought we had narrowed it down fairly enough by targetting the general public. After all, that is currently where the largest percentage of sales are with the AR-15....unless of, course, the DoD has contracted with a Company. I believe in "white24" when he points out that old quote about being one with your rifle. However, I must point out that many of us have chosen a "favorite" weapon on the field because we felt it was more reliable or for other reasons. Here lies that word...reliability. And that is one of the most important things we are looking for.

And again, to "RAMBOSKY", I apologize for not introducing myself to you. Certainly at this level of the playing field (SOG), we can all understand that we all have our set configurations for a weapon. In fact, as I am sure you are aware, many of us have chosen what role to play in combat. Mine, specifically, "was" that of a pointman although I did mostly shoot hundreds in the range either in pistol, shotgun or rifle (never falling below 98.5%). I retired before being sent to a formal sniper school (retired after my wife died...if one must know), but I wish I could have stayed for that. Our brief schooling helped me achieve hits at 800 to 1000 yards though. If you read my entry under the Bushmaster thread (same as this entry), you will see that I understand preference very well and I agree with you that there are a various number of combinations to create your perfect rifle. We were only trying to narrow down which builder would be the most reliable if we had no choice other than to choose a builder and were within a certain price limit.

Gentlemen, once again, I thank you for your input. "mongo001" has, at least, started off with a bit of a definitive answer to this question. So the tally is 1 for Colt and 1/2 for Bushmaster. My respect goes out to all..........

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood" Theodor Roosevelt

MR_1719
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 10:39:26 AM EST
I like RRA



Really good value there.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 11:57:54 AM EST
I would recommend Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS, or Rock River Arms.

Colt and Bushmaster offer mil-spec rifles, while the others dont, here is the ?, do you need a mil-spec? That is up to you but, DPMS and RRA make fine rifles. I don't know if Armalite is mil-spec.

DPMS are very accurate and don't let people tell you they dont offer chrome-lined barrels, they do for 20 extra dollars.

Colt and Bushys are very reliable.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:05:01 PM EST
Bushmaster

Nuff' said.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:30:05 PM EST
Wish I could afford all Colts, but I can't.

I can't find too much difference between the Colts I see and the Bushmasters I see, so I choose Bushmaster. I can get alot more rifle for the same price and I don't lose that much in the quality department. I also have the technical knowledge to fix any problems that arise, so what few there are, I don't worry about.

For every "damn Bushmaster" story out there, you will find as many "damn [enter manufacturer here]" stories as well. Colt is probably the only exception to this rule, but I am willing to bet there are quite a few "damn Colt" stories as well.

I just read a thread where ONE person was complaining about Colt, how they have become an ELITE gov't contractor and don't have time for the civilian market, so they don't pursue civilian sales as vigorously as Bushmaster and the Colt rifles that make it to the civilian market are assembled from the factory second parts (this is one guys opinion, NOT MINE, I have no knowledge on that matter - just food for thought).

I just can't see paying the $300-400 for their barrels when I can get a close equivelant from Bushmaster for nearly half or paying $200+ for a flat top receiver when I can get a equivelant non-Colt for $100 (you see my point).

Just in the barrel and receiver purchase alone, I have saved $200-300 and I now have money for my DD, KAC, PRI free float tube I always wanted.

I don't hold any grudge against the people that live by the logic that Colt is the only way to go, at times I even envy them a little - just long enough to allow me to put a few rounds down my Bushy, then I am happy with what I have.


Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:41:26 PM EST
I have heard that Colt's quality production has slumped in the last few years, espeacially with their 1911 models. Iguess Colt is really only producing good firearms from their custom shops. From what I've heard from various 1911 owners is that Springfield or Kimber pistols are much better then the new colts; colts are overpriced for what they are offering. I have no idea if this applies to their rifle line of firearms. I would assume not since the military contiues using Colt rifles. If anyone could clean up any gaps in this post or just plain prove me wrong from some sort of reliable source, that would be very beneficial to me.

Thanks
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:42:12 PM EST
COLT, COLT, COLT!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:11:15 PM EST
To all you people think colts and bushys are the shit , look at the TECH NOTES on mil-spec rifles armalite .com

NUFF SAID!!!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:21:24 PM EST
OK. I want to play too.... While no longer a factory offering, the "pre-ban" Colt AR-15 SP1 is still readily available in as new condition for less for about $1,200. It would be my choice, and here's why:

The pre-ban Colt SP1 is a well engineered rifle manufactured out of quality materials by people who knew how to build AR-15 rifles. It is reliable and accurate and tough. A skilled marksman using the proper ammunition can readily employ it for hunting small game and even some large game. It is useful for varmint control, plinking, and "after work stress relief." It is reasonably compact. It is robust enough to be used for self-defense; family (or friend) defense; property defense; or, if necessary, offensive actions. It has a bayonet lug, so it can (with a bayonet) be used quite effectively as a fog gigger. It has a flash suppressor, so it looks cool. It has "AR-15" and a pretty cool horsey engraved on its receiver. It is comparatively light and ergonomically well designed. It's easy to field strip and maintain (some AR15 copies are not). I also have it on good authority that chicks really dig guys who own Colts.... especially SP1s.

But most of all.... the Colt SP1 has a history and a "pedigree" that the other manufacturers can't match. Did I mention pride of ownership?
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 8:50:24 PM EST
WOW!

It looks like the debate is finally up and running. I have been directed to other similar questions, though more narrowed to one Company, but the responses are definitely imformative. I thank everyone for their resposes and their expertise in the rifles they choose to stand behind. It certainly provides a perspective on where the "general" public moves toward as far as this market.

Here is the talley for now....

Bushmaster leads with a score of 8 with Colt closing in at 7. Armalite has 3 points, while RRA has 2 and DPMS has 1.5. Wilson, Stoner, Les Baer and other AR-15's are the ones probably "too expensive" to mention or were mentioned as "too expensive" in this entry while the other AR builders are probably seen as not worth mentioning. No offense to the Companies out there, but, really, they were barely or not mentioned at all.

It appears as though the answers are following the market trend. I have passed some of this info to my colleagues where all this began and, of course, some were disappointed while others were saying, "I told you so." But....we are not finished. I am keeping this tally until this Friday. We shall see where we end.

Thanks again everyone for your answers.

MR_1719

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood" Theodore Roosevelt
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 9:38:55 PM EST
Try looking up a website I belive is called 'themarylandar15shootersite', or something close. They had an article called the "serious AR" I think you would be intrested in. Basically it covers the 'most' mil-spec AR's available. Bushmaster was #1, Armalite #2 and Colt #3.

Now, you asked for reliability, so let me share my own experience.

Colt:
I've owned 5 different Colt AR's broken down as follows;
20" Hbar x 2
20" Gov't barrel x 1
16" Gov't carbine x 2

The 20" Gov't barrel was the only one that gave 100% reliability, the others would ocassionaly FTF. And yeah, I tired different mags and ammo but their performance remained unpredictable. For this reason alone I have never bought another Colt and never intend to (oops, never say never). Not to mention the bastardized pivot pins, pin sizes and receiver blocks.

Bushmaster:
I've owned 8 different Bushmaster's (by the middle of June I will have my 9th);
I can honestly say that I have never had any functioning problems with Bushmasters at all. And this suprised me even, I mean with this many rifles and as many mags and as much ammo as I have gone through one would expect to have encountered a bad mag or squib round right? Bushmaster holds my trust, period.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 9:43:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 10:43:13 AM EST by Troy]
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:43:05 AM EST
jstep,

Thanks for your input. I have seen that site many times. And in my own limited experience in the ever changing world of AR's....I must say that I, too, have had a bad experience with Colt AR's. It's weird because some of their rifles were great and others simply were lemons. It was, however, always 50-50....which in my book means unreliable.

Some would jam. Others would go into rapid fire on its' own. Now imagine this scenario when your cover-man has one of those rifles go rapid fire when the intent is not to. Not good for a point man in a team. If he can't control the weapon because of any malfunction....well it simply isn't good. The military, however, did not seem to have as many problems. They were not at 50-50. Perhaps one of the entries of our comrades was correct. Perhaps the civilian market is getting rifles built with parts that are just under specs. Whatever the case, I hope Colt has also read that entry and provides a rebuttle.

Thanks again for your input.

MR_1719

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood" Theodor Roosevelt
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:44:58 AM EST
The current talley.....

Bushmaster is 9; Colt is 8; Armalite is 4; RRA is still 2; and DPMS is still 1.5.

MR_1719

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood" Theodore Roosevelt
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 3:14:37 AM EST
For value and performance RRA is the way to go in my opinion.
Then again I am biased since mine is awesome and the finish matches the performance as well.
Lifetime Warranty says it all.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 3:49:29 AM EST
Mr_1719,

I'm sure, based on your experience and the experience of your "group" that you've heard of Pat Rogers? If so, you already know the answer to your question based on Mr. Roger's experience as an instructor...COLT!

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 4:01:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
host146.ipowerweb.com/~initiali/pics/AR15-Comparison.gif

-Troy


Troy, it would be really great if you could bring your chart up to date. Colt has a lifetime service agreement, not a one year warranty as indicated on your chart. The only things not covered after one year are the pistol grip and cosmetic corrections.



Lifetime service agreement

Personally I've had the best luck with Colt, with Rock River being a close second. Of the others, I've owned every major brand with the exection of Armalite with varied degrees of success. The worst of the bunch was my 20" A2 Bushmaster XM15. After that fiasco I swore I'd never buy another, although I recently broke that rule and bought my wife a Carbon 15 "Lady".

MR_1719, if you would like to see a frank and open discussion about the pros and cons of various AR builders you might want to take a few minutes and check out THIS DISCUSSION You might recognize some of the names in that thread. Ned Christiansen, Pat Rogers, Hilton Yam, and Tim Lau are among the most respected smiths, armorers, and SWAT instructors in the nation.


Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:44:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 6:47:06 AM EST by RAMBOSKY]
MR_1719,

With your low post count and detailed request it was difficult at that time to take you seriously. My mistake.

I was a police officer in Washington DC during most of the 1970’s. The later part of my career was with a unit they called the Tactical Squad. Stakeouts and high risk search warrant raids.

Before that Army, Infantry, Vietnam.

I salute you for the professional you are. Sorry about the bad impression.

There are many here with vast more experience than I. But………..I will be glad to give you my recommendations.

I found that Bushmaster not only makes one of the best milspec units but since it’s a large company their customer service is very responsive to your needs.

For my latest build I chose the Bushmaster 16” V-Match. I could put on any free float forearm, front and rear flip up sight combinations I wanted by myself and not have to rely on a gunsmith.

A barrel that is free floated is more accurate than one that is not, with everything else being equal.

Below is my current set up. I do have an EOTech that I swap out with the ACOG when I do my monthly 3-gun matches. The ACOG is better for distance precision shooting that I do at times also.

Good luck on your quest.


Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:13:42 AM EST
Hello again,

Gentlemen, thank you again for all of this information. We are closing in at the end of this tally and right now we have a neck and neck running with Bushmaster and Colt. It seems everytime the BM gets a vote, I find one with a vote for Colt....and vice-versa.

Anyway, to CJan_NH, thanks for that link you gave me. I have never met Pat Rogers, Ned Chritiansen or the others mentioned, but I have seen all of those malfunctions mentioned many times in the range.....except those about the sights they were drilling (Cmore). Personally, I have never heard of Cmore sights. What I gathered, mostly, was that all the rifles have the probability of malfunctioning...especially when equipped with too many "toys". He mentions toward the end the group of SWAT guys who came in with their AR's...mostly Colts, but one Les Baer (and what about that Sig 552? Nice)....they did not have any problems because they were not so riddled with these toys. He pointed out that some guns were not reassembled correctly. Now I am reaching here, but I am wondering if the individuals owning these weapons weren't tinkering so much with their rifles that they placed wrong items back in...or if, with a group, somehow mixed parts around. I have seen parts getting mixed around happen before while observing a new group of trainees. My take is that all of those were due to mostly user error and not "necessarily' the rifle itself. I believe this is also the reason why individuals in here can stand by a "specific" product. They are truly familiar with their gear. As with the case of RAMBOSKY (5/5/04 - - 9:01:50AM).

RAMBOSKY, thanks for your opening sentence. Question....While in DC Metro...did you go to the Prince George's County SWAT School or to DC SWAT School. Back then, SWAT may not have been known as SWAT yet.....I understand, but the ideas and concepts were similar. Hail to Gates in LA for starting a SWAT Unit. DC's SWAT is now known as SRT. I trained with many of their guys. I saw a lot of good guys there. During your 1970's....DC was "THE BEST POLICE DEPARTMENT" in the nation. I am sorry to say that has changed a lot since then, but there are still hard core officers in there that know the job well. I must agree with you about the experience level in here. I have always tried to be humble with my own background, but this Forum is certainly proof that one should remain humble. Funny, with the kind of people in here...if the US were ever invaded for any period, I think the Terrorists would have another thing coming if they thought the US Military was all they had to contend with. By the way....that is one seriously nice rifle.

MR_1719

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood" Theodore Roosevelthippie.gif
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:20:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 11:25:17 AM EST by RAMBOSKY]
MR_1719,

I was there when Jerry Wilson was the Chief of Police. They had just opened the new Police Academy and my class was one of the first to graduate, 1970. I was assigned to 2nd District in the Georgetown area.

I did a few years in uniform, 2D Vice for a few years then the Tact Squad. We had no formal training for the Tact Squad other then a few seminars given by then called BNDD & BATF.

We had a 16 lb sledge hammer and a couple of Ithaca M37's shotguns. I carried a S&W Model 10 .38spl. No special uniforms. As you can see we were antiquated.

Anyway my boss, Tact Squad Sgt. Leeper was one of the officers who caught the Watergate burglars. I was off that day.


Originally posted by Mr_1719: "Funny, with the kind of people in here...if the US were ever invaded for any period, I think the Terrorists would have another thing coming if they thought the US Military was all they had to contend with"


Didn't you know??? We are all undercover members of Home Land Defense!!

Good luck and stick around AR15.com a while.

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:03:42 PM EST
there are no absolute sure things. you can find horror stories on all the brands listed on this site. the question is: who fixes their screwups? i've had great luck with colt and bushy cust svc, so even if i did come across the odd pos rifle from them i'm sure it would get fixed asap. that being said, my colt is a friggin stud!
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:13:45 PM EST
Based on the caliber of experienced operators, I don't really qualify to vote on this thread. However, as a learning experience, I will add my less than 2 cents. For reliability and general purpose plinking, I own a Bushmaster, for accuracy, I own a DPMS Stainless Bull.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:20:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 12:30:49 PM EST by POOR_MAN]
Well I am building a RRA/Bushmaster, But I had a Bushy V-match a while back, and it was an Excellent rifle, a buddy of mine Has a Colt and the Finish and overall quality is probably better. Since the 2 rifles were configured differently, I can't really compare thier preformance to one another. (The Colt was a carbine) Neither Jammed or malfunctioned.

My RRA lower is nice, but right now it is stripped, Real dark finish, Darker than both the other ARs I have shot,(as far as I can remember)

I think a good suggestion in picking an AR would be to go to a Gun Show and handle and examine several different brands and configurations. And find out what "your" preference is.

Some people will say negative things like the internals of "X" brand are thinner than "Z" brand, or "X" brand uses a 4140 steel barrel while "Z" uses 4150. and none of this is "said" to matter. "Most" AR manufacturers build a good product with high standards, so price would be the determining factor, (RRA)

Just my 1/2 cent, I am new at this, This is just the basic idea I got off of my post titled "best" AR.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:13:29 PM EST
RAMBOSKY,

I am laughing so hard I can hardly breath!h
A toast! To all SOG and those who gave the greatest sacrifice doing what they love! And to HOMELAND DEFENSE! Long live us all! (everyone takes a hit of a Jack Daniels straight)

MR_1719

To New_Pup_101....If you love what we stand for....then you qualify, but one bit of advice...learn all you can and practice, practice, practice....Welcome and Good Luck!

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood" Theodore Roosevelt
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 5:55:41 PM EST
The TALLEY continues....

Bushmaster: 14

Colt: 12

RRA: 5

Armalite: 4

DPMS: 2.5


It seems as though Bushmaster and Colt are among the most trusted in AR-15 rifles, unless, of course we simply haven't got enough responses. In any case.....two more days.

MR_1719
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 7:22:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 7:23:35 PM EST by model927]
First to M4ARC,yes Pat Rogers said the colts ran best more often but he also said that even though he saw alot of bushmasters fail,they most often failed in civilian hands.Some rifles brand new and untested, some with 2 stage triggers wich he said was the biggest problem because those triggers arent up to hard use.So I would say before we start the whos rifle is better lets take these factors into account.Experience with using and maintaing the rifle,2 a weapon you are going to use for serious work should be properly rung out and fired often to ensure reliability and the same goes for mags and accessories to be used.I read an article where a Navy Seal said"An M16 has to be worn in like a pair of boots,until you put 2 or 3 thousand round through it its gonna be stiff and tight"So that being said My 3 main ARs are Bushmaster,I have an Armalite full size and an RRA lower wich will be built as soon as the ban goes away.The Armalite has a Bushmaster barrel my reason being cheaper and same or better quality than colt.My RRA lower when I build it will also get a Bushmaster barrel.My 3 preban Bushies have RRA telestock assemblies and enhanced carriers,this is what I like.If you build an AR with quality parts and build it right there shouldnt be a problem.I have heard that the extended feed ramps in the M4A1 were done to cure a design deficiency,dont know if it is true or not.My very first AR was a colt 6601 HBAR made when they started adding a fence around the mag catch and receiver reinforcements,It ran 100% but as I got more experience and realized the lower parts were larger and colt didnt want to sell me spare parts I realized I wanted something more to spec and better customer service wich brought me to Bushmaster,and soldier of fortunes fighting firearms review of the Bushmaster rifle also helped.Now you can find parts for colts pretty easy and back in 92 you couldnt.I dont like colt for various reasons that arent always specificaly related to quality control even though they have the most problamatic record in this area that streches back to the Colt walker of 1847 but thats a monster all its own.In any event I beleive Bushmaster or RRA is the best mass produced and reliable ARs with the edge going to Bushmaster that you can get.If money were not a problem I would have a knights made rifle probably with a Bushy barrel...I just love their barrels.My Armalite is great but not knowing my chamber wasnt 5.56 was a pain in the ass that I found out the hard way with.I say Bushmaster all the way and earlier produced colts I would trust more than newer production guns.I dont think colt uses reject parts or "seconds"I just think the use older tooling to make their civilian rifles as opposed to newer sharper tooling replaced more frequently to ensure better quality control of contract weapons,I know at one point colt had a problem with the 5th lugs on their bolts cracking or breaking wich they cured by making it stronger.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:46:22 PM EST
I vote Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:34:14 PM EST
I think RRA is the best bang for the buck! Just like an LS1 Camaro is the best musscle car performer for the $$$.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:42:51 PM EST
Stock Bushy.

Or my own home rolled models.

I do good work....
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:19:15 PM EST
If you are looking for straight off the shelf, I would say Colt or Bushmaster, with a lean toward Colt ,as it is what I carry everyday. I also have Bushmasters, and they have been every bit as good.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 5:40:33 AM EST
Another Colt man here. That being said, with any mass produced product it is best to know exactly what to look for in a gun BEFORE you buy it so that you can insure your purchase is worth while. Even then there are factors that the human eye can't see. for instance my Armalite AR 10 was one of the most beautifully made special purpose weapons I have ever owned. It was also the most accurate iron sighted weapon I have ever fired. Everything about that gun looked and felt perfect....and it ran like shit. Customer service at Armalite made the gun run even worse...just one of those things. This can happen to anyone with any gun. For what it is worth, my best firearms experiences have always been with Colt and Smith and Wesson....but that's me.

Link Posted: 5/6/2004 9:07:31 AM EST
Gentlemen,

We have just one more day left. Once again, I must extend my appreciation to all of you for your participation in this entry. The thread still lives, but unfortunately it will end tomorrow....so for those of you who have not entered your choice of AR rifle....there is but twenty four hours to do so.

In any case gentlemen, our talley is certainly stretching. I think more and more, the element of price has finally begun to show its' colors. Most of my group had agreed that price would be a factor among consumers in the general public (I hope the high-end builders are reading). It sure would be nice if Knights, Wilson, Les Baer, Barret, and now even Hk would see this thread and, perhaps, allow their prices to be as coimpetative. Apparently, even the big companies are building AR's. Remember the 4x4....the so called "it's a redneck vehicle" back in the early 70's? Well, look at it now......the SUV in the form of Hummer, Jeep, hell even Porche now (like Hk). I wish no one ever liked them....I can't afford a $60,000 SUV and won't pay $20,000 for a KIA SUV. GO Jeep! he
Okay....went off course there.....the talley is now....

Bushmaster: 19.5
Colt: 14
RRA: 8
Armalite: 5
DPMS: 2.5

Still no sign of other vendors. I wonder if the high-end, expensive owners of AR aren't completely ignoring this thread because they fear some sort of response from RRA, Bushmaster or Colt owners. Anyway.....

MR_1719

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood" Theodore Roosevelt
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 10:32:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 10:33:43 AM EST by yakrat101]
While I don't have as much experience as many of you here, my opinion has been solicited and I will gladly give it.
My first AR type was an M16A2 courtesy of my uncle made by FN. It had the worst trigger I ever felt on a firearm.
After that I was stationed where I had an M4 properly made by Colt. I carried this carbine through two conflicts and it never failed me, for that I am eternally grateful.
Upon returning from the first conflict I bought my first Bushmaster. I got it because it was a great deal and only later realized that it's a fine weapon I wouldn't mind having to defend myself with.
The next purchase was a Colt. Although I had no problem with the quality, I didn't like the fact it had the large pivot pin and receiver block. It has since been traded.
I bought an RRA and like the quality of it. The price is better than Bushmaster and quality seems on par.

Bottom line is I wouldn't mind having to use any of these three but if I were to vote it would have to go to RRA because of the value. Colt and Bushmaster would be tied directly behind.

And for all of you here who went before me into combat, I humbly thank you.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 11:31:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 11:32:01 AM EST by jnewt]
I only own two brands, Colt and RRA. Of those two companys I am going with Colt simplie because of the RRA lowers being a tiny bit out of spec in the area where the rear takedown pin goes thru. I have had no other problems with any RRA rifle I have owned. My Colts fit, finish and function has been 100% since day one.


1 vote for Colt
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 11:45:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By jstep:
Try looking up a website I belive is called 'themarylandar15shootersite', or something close. They had an article called the "serious AR" I think you would be intrested in. Basically it covers the 'most' mil-spec AR's available. Bushmaster was #1, Armalite #2 and Colt #3.



That article has been updated with the release of the Colt M6400C. Given some of its reliability enhancing features (like the extended feed ramps) I'd rate them a notch over the Bushmasters. Either of them will do you fine. Personally I've chosen Bushmaster for my rifles (even though Pat Rodgers and Giles Stock rate them as a distant #2 against Colt).
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 12:27:21 AM EST
Finally......the talley is over......(and this was on page three of the thread...new topic soon)

Once again I thank you all for participating in this question which has somehow become a debate. The outcome is what appears to have been expected. Though my group of friends debated much like we did in here, the concensus has been consistent with most sites I have visited or been directed to. I apologize, in advance, for any proud owners of AR's which are not at the top of the list, but I am only going on what has been "provided" in this past five day period. Five days because tomorrow I am taking a three day weekend with the family. Anyway, here are the results.....

Out of the information provided either by "unquestionable" responses and email.....

Bushmaster: 23

Colt: 18

RRA: 10

Armalite: 6

DPMS: 3

Other Vendors were scarcely or not mentioned at all. So for those of you newer guys looking to buy a new AR....I hope this entry helps. Myself personally....If I could afford it.....I would probably be a true Knights-Stoner AR guy. Unfortunately....I am just a poor grunt. I have worked with both Colt and Bushmaster. To me, their function and reliability are identical. There are certain things I like on Colt that Bushmaster doesn't have, but then there are things I like about Bushmaster that Colt does not have. I do not have barrels of money....so I will stay with these two products to be certain I get quality AND quality customer service. Let's face it.....there's always a chance the rifle will have something that isn't right. Anyway, good luck to all.

MR_1719

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood
" Theodorehinking.gif Roosevelt
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 3:33:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By MR_1719:
Finally......the talley is over......(and this was on page three of the thread...new topic soon)

Once again I thank you all for participating in this question which has somehow become a debate. The outcome is what appears to have been expected. Though my group of friends debated much like we did in here, the concensus has been consistent with most sites I have visited or been directed to. I apologize, in advance, for any proud owners of AR's which are not at the top of the list, but I am only going on what has been "provided" in this past five day period. Five days because tomorrow I am taking a three day weekend with the family. Anyway, here are the results.....

Out of the information provided either by "unquestionable" responses and email.....

Bushmaster: 23

Colt: 18

RRA: 10

Armalite: 6

DPMS: 3

Other Vendors were scarcely or not mentioned at all. So for those of you newer guys looking to buy a new AR....I hope this entry helps. Myself personally....If I could afford it.....I would probably be a true Knights-Stoner AR guy. Unfortunately....I am just a poor grunt. I have worked with both Colt and Bushmaster. To me, their function and reliability are identical. There are certain things I like on Colt that Bushmaster doesn't have, but then there are things I like about Bushmaster that Colt does not have. I do not have barrels of money....so I will stay with these two products to be certain I get quality AND quality customer service. Let's face it.....there's always a chance the rifle will have something that isn't right. Anyway, good luck to all.

MR_1719

"The credit belongs to the man, who is actually in the arena,
Whose face is marred by the dust and the sweat and the blood
" Theodore Roosevelt



oh no ...thats set in stone ,guess my armalite is going to the trash !!!
1719=
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 3:57:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 3:58:57 AM EST by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By tooly:
oh no ...thats set in stone ,guess my armalite is going to the trash !!!




For what it's worth, it looks like my beloved RRAs are only about half as good as my beloved Colts. Got any extra room in your dumpster for my RRAs? <tear>

If you want to talk about blasphemy, I mix my RRAs and Colts IN THE SAME SAFE! The Colts were a little standoffish at first, but they all seem to get along now. I'm grateful that I didn't heed the initial request from the ponies to be segregated from the others. Hell, they're even cleaned with supplies from the same toolbox...
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 4:21:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By tooly:

hock.gif oh no ...thats set in stone ,guess my armalite is going to the trash !!!hr


Ya mine too I guess and I was really starting to like Armilite.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:21:55 AM EST
model927 - I think you read too much into my post. I simply passed along Mr. Roger's opinion since it sounded like MR_1719 was in the "tactical" business too. I didn't inject my opinion either way so...
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 2:22:48 PM EST
My answer, as always, is Colt.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 2:38:03 PM EST
For all of you wishing to turn in your not-up-to-standard AR's I will give them a good home, you pay for shipping.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 3:53:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 3:58:41 PM EST by MAW57]
One more personal opinion. he# 2. Bushmaster = Very good source for barrels and parts. Excellent customer service.
# 3. Olympic = Good quality, Reasonable price, Good customer service.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:15:25 PM EST
Give my vote to Colt.
Have 4, working on more. Not one problem with any of them. They are obviously quality pieces.
Have one Bushy. Took a couple of times back to the factory to get it right.
RRA--had one. Nice rifles. Had one minor problem, easily solved. I would probably buy another before a Bushy....
No experience with Armalite.

I will only buy Colt.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:52:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By MAW57:
One more personal opinion.

# 1. Colt = Top quality. Overall, "Best out of the box." Poor customer service.
# 2. Bushmaster = Very good source for barrels and parts. Excellent customer service.
# 3. Olympic = Good quality, Reasonable price, Good customer service.



Get off the THAT ROCK , guess you never opened a armalite box!!!
you must be on rock , OLYMPIC = GOOD QUALITY
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