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Posted: 6/6/2003 10:52:16 AM EDT
The closest you can get (in the USA) to the only
assault rifle better than the AR/M16

-Unconverted-


-SL8 partially Converted w/M16 magwell-


-SL8 Converted-


alpinetek.netfirms.com/guns/SL8/

Damn this guy did a good job.

Link Posted: 6/6/2003 10:55:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 9:22:31 PM EDT by ZRH]
Fudging trolls. AR-15 all the way. [img]http://www.colt.com/mil/images/M4.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.colt.com/mil/images/M16.jpg[/img] Below picture courtesy of new-arguy [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pa6a8ef6bdf7f08dbbcff3f2eaad11959/fc10ecb9.jpg[/img] [edited to add pics]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 10:58:45 AM EDT
I know people who have shot both and they say no compararion-AR15 all the way.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:05:03 AM EDT
plus that thing is ulgy as sin! [chainsawkill][slap][pound][nuts][torch][chai­r][buttkick]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:18:31 AM EDT
on the contrary, gents - I've shot a conversion like th eone hanging on the wall in the pics (that looks EERILY similar to the rifle shot!) and was very much impressed. I liked the way it really hurls brass out - the action really is what happens when Kalashikov and Stoner meet and cooperate! My one gripe was with the integrated optics - it took longer to "learn" how to hold the rifle and get a good sight picture. But..... once the picture was aquired - then it was all good! Actually I have a 2nd gripe - the ergos in geberal are not as good - the AR's ergos are top notch. But the action is a tad to maintenance intensive (at least my DPMS M4 is....)
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:19:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:30:32 AM EDT
He picked a good place to keep it (on the wall) [ROFL2] AR-15 all the way
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:37:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: I've shot and handled both, in my case a post-sample REAL G36, and I would also choose an AR hands down over the G36. The HK logo isn't magic... -Troy
View Quote
It's not? [>:/] My handguns keep telling me it is.......[;)]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:53:09 AM EDT
I think SIG 550/551 might be better than AR design.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:16:54 PM EDT
So what YOU are saying is you think is sucks slightly less than an AR? [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=159150&w=searchPop[/url]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:29:29 PM EDT
The fact that it needs to be converted to an M16 configuration speeks for itself; it wants to be like the best
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:36:37 PM EDT
How is that better than an AR?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:43:47 PM EDT
Horseshit
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:47:12 PM EDT
My Crosman .177cal BB gun is better than my M4 [:P]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:49:07 PM EDT
[BS2]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:53:54 PM EDT
[ROFL2]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:54:48 PM EDT
Well I'm a big HK fan myself although I'm a bigger AR fan. I bought an HK SL8-1 a couple of months ago simply because they are going to stop importing them and I wanted to have one. I'm in the process of turning it into a G36 clone too. I hate to admit, but the SL8-1, along with my HK pistols, shoot like a dream. I admit, the SL8 isn't as pretty as my ARs, so that's why I'm giving it the G36 makeover. But as far as shooting and accuracy, it's hard to beat the SL8.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:57:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 12:57:48 PM EDT by Mike_T]
After having more than a bit of trigger time with both G-36's and M-4's and M-16's I can state each has its own area of superiority over the other. The M-4 design is better for multiple rounds and full auto controllability with much more user friendly design features. The ability to use modular equipment is second to none. The G-36, even in the short barreled versions, is very very reliable. It lacks user friendly designs but is slowly catching up to the modularity ability. IMHO the M-4/M-16 is a better system. The G-36 edge in reliability does not cancel out the M-4's ability to place rounds on target. Your experiences may differ, but I have experienced this and have seen others, after use, state this first hand.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:06:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:15:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Originally Posted By Troy: I've shot and handled both, in my case a post-sample REAL G36, and I would also choose an AR hands down over the G36. The HK logo isn't magic... -Troy
View Quote
diito to that. I personally think the G36 and the UMP are shit boxes of guns that are over priced...I know how much it costs to make a polymer gun, and the pricing on both is way out of line.
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2nd ditto. I actually liked the G36, although not over an M16. The UMP really was a shit box. And the SL8... WHY??? Friggen' ugliest .223 ever made, stupid thumbhole stock, 10 rd mags only. Yeah, I know that a result of the current laws, but that abortion of a rifle should have never been produced, thus saving what remains of the HK reputation. So you add $1000 bucks worth of doo-dads from a company known for shitty guns and worse customer service (Special Weapons) and what do you have? -$2000 bucks that could have bought you a couple ARs...
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:22:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Originally Posted By Troy: I've shot and handled both, in my case a post-sample REAL G36, and I would also choose an AR hands down over the G36. The HK logo isn't magic... -Troy
View Quote
diito to that. I personally think the G36 and the UMP are shit boxes of guns that are over priced...I know how much it costs to make a polymer gun, and the pricing on both is way out of line.
View Quote
You are a shitbox, the UMP45 is awesome, I don't know about the g36, I haven't shot one. I have fired m16s and UMP45s, and as far as an assault weapon, it is superior for unarmored personnel.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:27:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:32:12 PM EDT
I say drop OICW XM29 all together... They can never catch up M4 MWS's modularity. That said, I still think SIG 550/551 might be little better than AR design, except for again, modularity. I still don't comprehend how Mr Stoner in the 50s designed AR like this so it can take all the accessories. After you get accustomed, it only takes you 20 ~ 30 minutes to "battle-ready" clean it.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:35:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 1:37:00 PM EDT by DOA]
Well, about Special Weapons...I am kinda curious how the HK G36 gas system upgrade for the AR15/M16 is going to work. That would be pretty cool if he could pull that off. It is in the works now.....
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:45:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hkump45: You are a shitbox, the UMP45 is awesome, I don't know about the g36, I haven't shot one. I have fired m16s and UMP45s, and as far as an assault weapon, it is superior for unarmored personnel.
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Superior to what? A Tec-9??? I've never fired a MG as uncontrollable as the UMP, and that was in .40 with a KAC grip! Maybe I'm just spoiled by MP5s, but the UMP is a poor excuse for a subgun IMHO.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:55:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 2:03:33 PM EDT by Speckfire]
SL8 better than AR? That thing looks like a grey umbrella and its ugly. Spending 2k to make it look like a G36?? What for??? I'll get another AR or a Robinson M96 for less than the total price of the rifle and G36 upgrade. I saw an SL8 on the range. The interal mechanism is nothing special. Piston with a rotating bolt like an AK, Galil. It seemed to look very similar to the old bushmaster assualt type rifle. The AR field strips easier than the SL8 and looks less f*ggy. You do not have to agree with me, but I'll take an AR over that thing
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:03:23 PM EDT
Hope it shoots better than it looks... [lol] Dirk
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:18:45 PM EDT
I can smell a fire burning. [flame]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:46:51 PM EDT
[beathorse]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:37:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Originally Posted By Troy: I've shot and handled both, in my case a post-sample REAL G36, and I would also choose an AR hands down over the G36. The HK logo isn't magic... -Troy
View Quote
diito to that. I personally think the G36 and the UMP are shit boxes of guns that are over priced...I know how much it costs to make a polymer gun, and the pricing on both is way out of line.
View Quote
Ditto here too. HKs rifles always been shitboxes, heavy, clumsy, terrible trigger, too expensive, the list goes on and on. The only rifle they made worth a damn was the MP-5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dosen't the SL8 use a short-stroke gas piston ? Like the M-1 carbine, nothing new or modern there. I guess HK finally figured out that the roller-delayed blowback system wasn't good for a full-powered rifle cartridge.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:54:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Originally Posted By Troy: I've shot and handled both, in my case a post-sample REAL G36, and I would also choose an AR hands down over the G36. The HK logo isn't magic... -Troy
View Quote
diito to that. I personally think the G36 and the UMP are shit boxes of guns that are over priced...I know how much it costs to make a polymer gun, and the pricing on both is way out of line.
View Quote
Roger on THAT!!! The Germans and Austrians are the only people in the world that can make the price of plastic equal the price of gold.[;D] Plastic guns should cost half; not twice as much. Sorry; I'll stick w/my ARs--with an occasional day at the range w/the AKs and Galil, for variety. Plastic mags; fine. Plastic stocks; sure. Plastic guns? Not unless and until they start selling them for LESS than the old fashioned variety, because they cost less to make. And probably not even then.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:58:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: I've shot and handled both, in my case a post-sample REAL G36, and I would also choose an AR hands down over the G36. The HK logo isn't magic... -Troy
View Quote
... [b]Troy[/b]ness is close to Godliness
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:58:25 PM EDT
Just don't spill acetone on it or let your Chihuahua chew on it for too long.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 7:56:21 PM EDT
Oh it's raining!!! Honey give me the umberella...Ooops grabbed the SL8 by mistake. SL8= Faaaagggyy Faaaaggyy.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:32:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 8:38:10 PM EDT by jimtash9]
I own a USC, the civilian version of the UMP and it is more fun to shoot then either of my ARs and a lot cheaper. With the 30 round grease gun conversion, I have plenty of rounds. And being so simple, if it were to accidentally fall into water or mud or sand or dirt all I would need to do is swab out the barrel if necessary and start shooting. If I had to I could probably wash it in water and dry it out and it would be just fine. Plastic doesn't rust or need a lot of TLC and I wouldn't have to clean every little crevice to have a reliable weapon. Even the manual states that the thumbhole recess in the bolt is for either quiet chambering or as an assist to push the bolt foward in case there is dirt or mud in the rifle. I have shot over 2000 rounds out of it and have never had a hiccup. Can you say that about an AR or MP5? If someone breaks into my house, I'm going for my USC not my M4. If the shtf, my USC will be with me along with my AMD 65.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:34:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 10:08:47 PM EDT by HKocher]
Originally Posted By scottfn308: Ditto here too. HKs rifles always been shitboxes, heavy, clumsy, terrible trigger, too expensive, the list goes on and on. The only rifle they made worth a damn was the MP-5.
View Quote
Well now you've just gone too far. Heavy, bullshit. A G3 weighs about the same as a the rest of the main battle rifles such as the FAL and a little more than a milled AK. Hell, it's lighter than an M14. And if you want to talk 5.56, sure the HK33 pales in comparison to the M16, but in my books, the M16 is the pinnacle of 5.56s. Sure it's a LITTLE heavier than a 20" bbl M16, but compare it to the rest of the world's 5.56s (FNC, Sig, Galil, etc.) and it falls right in that weight class. Sure the triggers aren't the best, but they're 'combat' rifles (not talking about SL8s here), not target rifles. Not much better or worse than most stock 'combat' rifles I have run across. Expensive? Sure, but that's 90% based on US weapons bans and import restrictions. I sure see a lot of third world countries armed with G3s and HK33s, so they can't be that expensive. Yes, perhaps more expensive than the competitors, but not substantially so if you disregard the BS laws of the US. Rewind 15 years and you can buy all the HK91/93/94s you want for under $500 a piece. The biggest place that HK sticks it to you is on the price of parts and mags. But one can always argue that you pay more for better quality. Clumsy, how so? I'm a lefty, and I don't have much trouble. That's more than I can say for other similar rifles. Hey, I'm the first to admit the short comings of HKs, but to criticize the entire lineup is a bit unfair. Please don't let any bias against the company compel you to make unsubstantiated statements about any weapons bearing the HK mark.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:41:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimtash9: I have shot over 2000 rounds out of it and have never had a hiccup. Can you say that about an AR or MP5?
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YES. And you say it's cheaper to shoot your USC than an AR??? Where do you buy your .45 from, because you're getting a great deal. I've never seen any .45 ball that's cheaper than surplus .223. $800 for a used USC vs. $800 for a new postban Bushy. Humm, I'll take 30rds of .223 ($15 per used mag) over 10rd of .45 ($40 per mag) any day. Scottfn308 does have a point here with HKs being overpriced, $40 for a 10 round mag = bend over customer and take it hard...
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:55:10 PM EDT
I pay $14.00 for 30 round NEW grease gun mags. 50 rounds of 230 grain is $13.00. On the other hand, $20-$25 for used USGI mags with green followers, $150-$175 for 1000 rounds of 5.56. The USC doesn't care what ammo I feed it. In my ARs, I only use good quality ammo, Q3131A etc. Don't get me wrong and don't get offensive because I like my ARs, notice it's plural, my USC is 100 times more reliable period.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:15:31 PM EDT
Just for the info G36s operate on the same principle as a AR-180. Hardly state of the art.
I pay $14.00 for 30 round NEW grease gun mags. 50 rounds of 230 grain is $13.00. On the other hand, $20-$25 for used USGI mags with green followers, $150-$175 for 1000 rounds of 5.56. The USC doesn't care what ammo I feed it. In my ARs, I only use good quality ammo, Q3131A etc. Don't get me wrong and don't get offensive because I like my ARs, notice it's plural, my USC is 100 times more reliable period.
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You probably couldda bought a [b]real[/b] grease gun for the price of your USC though. Hell for $100 you can [b]build[/b] a semi-auot Sten that will shot extremely reliably and look evil as hell. If I owned a [b]neutered[/b] HK (USCs and SL8s) I would be afraid of it melting in the sun or having someone think its a watergun. The [b]ONLY[/b] HK rifle I would buy is a G3. I love roller delayed blowback designs. If HK really cared about its american consumers it would set up a factory here and make American HK91s less the flashider and collapsible stock. But being the Euro trash wussies that they are they designed a rifle that looks like a toy.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:18:43 PM EDT
After properly broken in, I think well-made ARs are very reliable as long as you take care of them. Even if you have jam sometimes, it is usually very easy to clear by pulling bolt / carrier back. Mine used to be jam-o-matic when it was new but it is now running without any hiccups. I've shot it right after 18+ inches of snow when nobody came to shoot (got my car stuck, of course [:(])
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:44:09 PM EDT
True the looks are different and the SL-8 is ugly, but my USC is a potent little weapon with a grease gun coversion. Real grease guns cost well over 10K and I haven't seen any post-ban versions. As far as the construction of the rifle itself, the polymer plastic is tuff and rigid. If it won't melt when the barrel heats up due to firing, lying in the sun should have no effects.After shooting, the barrel cools down very fast, like 5 minutes. My AR takes over 15-20 minutes to cool. Overall it's a nice rifle to have for home protection and the .45 round has excellent takedown capability. I agree with you that HK needs to locate a plant here, but with the laws as they are, they're not going to take a risk and are waiting for 2004.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:59:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher:
Originally Posted By scottfn308: Ditto here too. HKs rifles always been shitboxes, heavy, clumsy, terrible trigger, too expensive, the list goes on and on. The only rifle they made worth a damn was the MP-5.
View Quote
Well now you've just gone too far. Heavy, bullshit. A G3 weighs about the same as a the rest of the main battle rifles such as the FAL and a little more than a milled AK. Hell, it's lighter than an M14. And if you want to talk 5.56, sure the HK33 pales in comparison to the M16, but in my books, the M16 is the pinnacle of 5.56s. Sure it's a LITTLE heavier than a 20" bbl M16, but compare it to the rest of the world's 5.56s (FNC, Sig, Galil, etc.) and it falls right in that weight class. Sure the triggers aren't the best, but they're 'combat' rifles (not talking about SL8s here), not target rifles. Not much better or worse than most stock 'combat' rifles I have run across. Expensive? Sure, but that's 90% based on US weapons bans and import restrictions. I sure see a lot of third world countries armed with G3s and HK33s, so they can't be that expensive. Yes, perhaps more expensive than the competitors, but not substantially so if you disregard the BS laws of the US. Rewind 15 years and you can buy all the HK91/93/94s you want for under $500 a piece. The biggest place that HK sticks it to you is on the price of parts and mags. But one can always argue that you pay more for better quality. Clumsy, how so? I'm a lefty, and I don't have much trouble. That's more than I can say for other similar rifles. Hey, I'm the first to admit the short comings of HKs, but to criticize the entire lineup is a bit unfair. Please don't let any bias against the company compel you to make unsubstantiated statements about any weapons bearing the HK mark.
View Quote
THe G-3s and HK-91s I have shot and owned, as well as a 93,94 have all had about 10-13lb trigger pulls. I realize they are not target rifles but come on that is a little ridiculous. As far as weight, yes the 91 weighs about the same as a FAL. But remember that it is a stamped sheet metal gun, the FAL is forged steel. It also has a saftey that is too small, charging handle that is poorly designed, kicks like a mule, and no last round bolt hold-open. These shortcommings apply to all HK weapons. However, if I had to take a HK-91,93,94, I wouldn't feel to bad, there are worse choices out there. As far as seeing a lot of G-3s in 3rd world shitholes, those guns have reached the end of their service life, no rebuild standards on a HK (I'ts cheaper to build a new one) and are sold as scrap or given to these countries.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 9:45:09 AM EDT
I own ARs, otherwise I wouldn't visit this board... that having been said, while I do have a place in my heart for the AR, I will take my G3 over it anyday. Likewise, I'll take 7.62x51mm over 5.56x45mm anyday.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 12:19:35 PM EDT
I've shot the G36, and other than the crappy sights, crappy trigger, and the poor ergonomics of the thing, I simply could not bring myself to buy a Nazi gun. (I also will not buy French tires for my car)
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 12:30:06 PM EDT
Here is my list of what I believe, are the fundamental deficiencies of the G36 system that render it vastly inferior to the AR-15 1-CHARGING HANDLE The amb. charging handle is located on top of the reciever, right where a continuous 1913 rail should be, forcing the rail to be mounted even higher. 2-STOCK Folding stock cannot be readily adjusted for LOP, stance,or to compensate for equiptment and/or clothing. 3-MAG RELEASE The paddle type release makes for slower reloads. 4-CHEEK WELD Too high for magnified optics mounting (see 1) 5-SIGHT RADIUS Irons will always be needed for backup, sight radius is poor. 6-RECIEVER LENGTH longer rcvr means less for barrel length when OAL is equal,(20,14.5 and 10"bbl vs. 18,12,and 8"bbl) 7-BULK bulky esp. w/AG 36 mounted. Not an expert, just my op. Calvin
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 2:48:06 PM EDT
Uuuuuummmmmm----no expert here------but isn't that converted rifle---now an illegal weapon??????????
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:04:35 PM EDT
They had one at a tactical match last winter. They had an M4 and the SL8 on a table. The M4 had iron sights, the SL8 had an aimpoint M68. At the start signal, the shooter could choose either weapon, engage some targets, then rush into another area, draw pistol.... I was going to grab the trusty M4, but at the last minute, I decided to try the HK for two reasons, I figured the Aimpoint would be nice in low-light, and it would be a chance to shoot something different. It felt like a junior high school kid built it in shop class, the ergonomics were awful. Troy said it best, no magic.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:04:58 PM EDT
No, its not illegal. You can legally convert the rifle to accept other mags. The folding stocks and flash hiders are on rifles designed for LEO.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 1:13:26 AM EDT
Regardless of how much you guys love your AR's, G36 is a more reliable design over all, and more modern than the AR15 HANDS DOWN. I have fired SL8's and admittedly they are goofy since they have been castrated by the AWB, but you can just feel that the gun is modern comparativly to the AR design. Not only that, thank god, it doesn't get near as dirty as my ARs did. But this post was about their conversion, not the stock model.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 2:43:22 AM EDT
Please elaborate as to how a rifle feels more "Modern". I guess if by "modern" you mean "blocky", then yes, it is very modern. Seriously, though, what exactly do you mean by the statement? I can understand the reliability factor and the cleanliness of the system, but a good rifle is (at leased to me) based upon good ergonomics, good accuracy, and good handling. If you keep the AR clean then it is just as reliable as any other rifle. If you take all the advantages of the AR/M16 and compared to all the advantages of the G36, I think you will find the AR has a lot more advantages. If you add the disadvantages of the AR, it would add up to less than the disadvantages of the G36. Until Phasers come out, the AR is still the top choice for me.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 4:47:39 AM EDT
One of the things it's detractors seem to ignore is that the gas system of the AR with no op rod that everyone loves to slam for being 'dirty' is one of the key reasons that it is the most accurate, off the shelf combat rifle in the world. The AR can achieve accuracy levels that smoke many bolt actions. You'll probably never be able to do that with any Kalashnikov style system like the G36 uses, no matter how much you tweak it (even with the 'Dragunov').
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