Okay so I got my new Midwest Industies two-piece, 4-rail handguard in midlength...I tried to put a TangoDown forward pistol grip (in Coyote Tan color) on it...way too tight! No way was it going on without some file work on the plastic mating surfaces on the vert grip. Which I didn't want to do, as this particular TD grip was destined to go on a Larue rail, which it fit perfectly. I just tried to put it on because I was waiting for another TD vert grip (in Black) that was to be used with the MI to arrive. Bummer. I was dissapointed in the MI product.

So, I finally get my Black TD vert grip. It goes on the MI handguard with a tight fit, yes, but not too tight, if you know what I mean: No fitting neccessary...

Which leads me to this conclusion: TangoDown vertical grips are not always in spec.

Either that or the rail isn't spec......I had to do quite abit of filing to mount a TD grip on my ARMS SIR 45M [I knew that going in] but I picked up another one to mount on my Surefire 870 forend and it was really loose. The same one fits better on my Knight RIS with just a bit of wobble.

maybe everythings out of spec

Quoted: Either that or the rail isn't spec......

You either didn't read his post or you need to put down the crack pipe.  Two TD grips, one fits the rail and one doesn't.  Regardless of whether the rail is made to spec, either both grips should have fit or both grips should have been too tight.  If one fits and one doesn't then one of the two TD grips must not be made to spec.  Assuming that all else is being equal, of course.

Sorry AyeGuy...I missed the fact you had two different grips

Have you tried anything else on the rails? Covers or grips or lights, or whatever? Does the top rail align correctly?

Quoted: FYI, there are small deviances (that are allowed) in the Picatinny spec. The rail could be to one side of the deviance and the TD VG could be to the other. The next TD VG you tried was to the deviance that the rail was to (got the perfect fit). C4

It's tolerance you deviant.

Quoted: Which leads me to this conclusion: TangoDown vertical grips are not always in spec.

I found that out a long time ago but I was called crazy. TD insisted that each of their VFG were exactly the same and did not vary from one example to the next. According to them (and some people here), if the grip did not fit exactly right, then it was always the rail's fault.

I had one that fit very loosely on a DD rail (and other rails as well). I did not buy TD's answer and asked that they exchange it for another one which they did. The second one, while not 100% perfect, was considerably tighter. That just shows that regardless of what TD claims, anytime you mass produce anything, there will be some variances from one batch to the next. That's why the specs call for a range, not an exact number as it would be impossible for anybody to consistently obtain an exact measurement on a repeated basis.

As mentioned, this fitting issue are often caused by one product being on one end of the spec and the other product being on the opposite end of the spec. Both products are technically "in-spec" but none-the-less, they fit together poorly. I really like the TD VFG but I wish they would change their mounting method because their current design does not account for manufacturing variances in either their product or by the rail manufacturer's.

It called tolerances (+/-). All prints (drawings) have a tolerance range on all given dimensions. These are specified by the designer. Mil-spec is the same thing, a set of military approved prints (Tech. Data Package) for a part or component.

Someday I hope someone invents a device for measuring such things....

Gentlemen,


Let me make a few statements regarding the thread topic.

Every item created in the manufacturing process has a chance for error.

The more operations per part, the higher probability of error. That is a Universal Fact. That said, some processes are better than others for accurate mass production repeatability. Those are the methods we employ to create our BGV-MK46 vertical grip. Our grip was designed to install correctly across the tolerance range of authentic MIL-STD 1913 accessory rails.

We perform thorough QC on our products, and make every possible effort to deliver top quality components you can trust your life to. However, IF you should ever have a problem, we back it up with a 'no questions asked' guarantee. You can always count on that.

AyeGuy- If your Flat Dark Earth grip does not fit correctly, please return it for a replacement or a refund. We will examine it for fit.

We have heard nothing but praise for MI rails. There are several other manufacturers that are consistantly MIL-STD 1913 compliant as well. However, some are not.. by a big margin. That's why we include a copy of the U.S. Military MIL-STD blueprint with every grip.

Our product was designed for a specific rail (U.S. Military) and intended to be as simple and quick detachable as possible..without tools. We were asked to make it bombproof and not prone to breakage.


Best regards,

Jeff Cahill
TangoDown LLC

I had the *exact* same thing as AyeGuy happen -- in fact, my post was worded almost identically;

Posted by me: Well my handguards were waiting for me when I got home today. Good news: They look even better in hand than they do in the pics here. The pics in this thread don't do them justice, once you wipe the oil off they are a smooth flat black - not chalky looking, a decent match to my Sabre upper. Clean engraved markings, no burrs, and I can't find any tool marks. Beautiful. The handguards went in fine with no fuss and no handguard tool -- you just have to make sure you're sticking them in straight. No meaningful wobble. My KAC panel covers clip in nicely and firmly, and look great on the handguards. Bad news: There is absolutely no way in hell my Tango Down vertical foregrip would go on without breaking out a file and some sandpaper. Not even close. Even when I had the locking bars past the last slot, I still had to buttstroke it with my A2 to get the foregrip off the rail. (It was a bitch to get on, but still possible with bare hands. I had the lower rail off and braced against a table. It only slid on about 1 1/2". I didn't realize how hard it would be to get back off) At first I thought that the topmost (held vertically) angled section needed some taken off; after a lot of fiddling, I realized that I just needed to turn the grip upside down and run the flat top surface over some sandpaper. Now it goes on great, but the first little bit I removed means the grip wobbles just a tad.  I suppose I'm SOL on that.

Then

Quoted: Not all TD verts are the same. I have an early production on my desk that will not fit any pic rail without some work. The newer ones all fit the MI's really well (and other pic rails).

And followed by:

Posted by me: That is what I suspected myself when the second one I got -- which I ordered from you on a Thursday and had in my hands on that Saturday, btw -- fit on without any altering. (though it was still a real bitch to get on)

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=240744&page=4

I happened to get a KAC foregrip with some rail covers I bought off the EE; the KAC fits on fine, as do my various rail covers and whatnot.  That first foregrip fit on my flat top (only other rail I had to try) like the second one I got ended up fitting on the MI rail, but then the issue was clearance at the top of the foregrip, which is a non-issue if you stick it on the receiver top rail.

The moral of this story, is don't screw with your vertical foregrips -- either send it back, or sell it someone who can use it.

ARMRER, I got the Coyote (excuse me, "Flat Dark Earth "!) vert foregrip to go on my Recce, which has a Larue 12.0 handguard. It fit just perfectly on that one. No complaints whatsoever, and thank you for a fine product.

I put it on the MI handguard because I had seen the post by boltcatch, and I was worried. Putting the coyote on the MI seemed to cooberate his experience. When the proper Black vert grip came I immediatly put it on the MI and was glad to see it fit well.  So I am content. No need for returns.


Now where did I put that crack pipe?