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Posted: 9/11/2004 10:25:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 9:43:27 AM EST by CSGunWorkscom]
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 10:39:11 AM EST
any more info? specs? price?
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 10:47:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 10:48:29 AM EST by ICU]
Eye relief, FOV @ 100y, cost, warranty(IOR hard to contact)?? -Justin
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 10:54:17 AM EST
Don't like the busy CQB reticle. Needs a quick disconnect base. I honestly think IOR scopes are overpriced when compared to Leupolds and such.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 11:03:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Don't like the busy CQB reticle. Needs a quick disconnect base. I honestly think IOR scopes are overpriced when compared to Leupolds and such.



IOR in general are much cheaper and higher quality then their competitors.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:45:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 10:08:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 10:12:06 AM EST by ALAN308]
It seems to me;
turrets obscure possible accessories on those rails
all adjustments are unprotected
minor stadia lines in reticle detract. Major lines [3] would be better alone.
In this case, less would be more. When I first saw this post, I was hopeful. They have the capability but do not build yet the perfect combo - for me.
TA-11 is still looking to be a bargan at a discounted price.

that is a great reticle, if it were just cleaned up. The three major stadia lines with out the minor ones and without the three 'scale' numbers, can you see that? imo, of course.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 10:09:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 10:12:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 10:29:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 1:18:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By CSGunWorkscom:
If anyone would like to test one and give us feedback would be willing to give them a very good discount. We would like to get the opinion others. We have got one-person’s feedback and they were ecstatic about it. If you do not like it we would take it back for a full refund.

The CQB reticle may look busy but when you actually use you will see how nice it is. The reticle is quite good.

I like Leupold we even stock Leupold. The IOR 3X25 QR-TS has it positives like the Leupold CQT has is positives. The IOR QR-TS is smaller, lighter, and I like the reticle better.

www.csgunworks.com
mike@csgunworks.com



I might be interested in giving feed back on this optic so if you'd like....IM me the discount and I'll give it some more thought. Since I have really have been interested in it since the release at Shot Show. But the 649.00 is a little steep for it...

Bigant
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 3:31:10 PM EST
The reticle shown is not the reticle in this scope? O.K. Good mistake. When I see a representative reticle for this one, I [we] will be on the same page.

[I know they can do it]
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:29:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By CSGunWorkscom:
Price: $649.93



For that price I'll get a Compact ACOG 3x24 - never worry aboutg batteries, and the LaRue Mount.

It will weight half as much, cost about the same, and have the excellent LaRue throw levers.

Now if IOR would sell that scope in the $300 -$400 range; then I would be interested.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:51:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:27:50 AM EST
I'd take a Leupold CQT in a LaRue mount or a Leupold 1.5-5 illuminated in a LaRue mount instead. Both scopes with mounts can be had for just a little more money and they don't have to go back to Romania if you have a problem. The Leupold 1.5-5 can even be had with a variety of reticles through Premier Reticles.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 9:50:01 AM EST
What do I think of it? It would be better if it was a 0 or 1 magnification. Hell if it was a 0 or 1 magnification I'd buy one right this very second as I love IOR scopes. I need something for a CQB optic thats not magnified or only 1power and I don't feel like getting a Aimpoint, or eotech and I'm not big on red dots anyway, looks like that may be the only way to go. Hmmm wonder if IOR would consider a 0 power or 1 power version.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 9:51:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Don't like the busy CQB reticle. Needs a quick disconnect base. I honestly think IOR scopes are overpriced when compared to Leupolds and such.



When you actually look through their stuff it;s not as busy as you first thought. A lot of people thought the MP8 was a busy retical till I let them look through mine.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 10:24:10 AM EST
Judging from my IOR M2, I don't think IOR is in the least overpriced. I am very impressed by the features and "built like a tank" look of it. Perhaps not as industrial looking as the ACOG (which looks like a pc of plumbing off a steam locomotive), but appears well made all the same.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:50:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:03:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 12:03:59 PM EST by CSGunWorkscom]
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:22:34 PM EST
CS gun works, i'm interested in one, just let me know the discount, and the time frame you want the review written by, and i think i might be able to help y'all out. just shoot me a PM or e-mail me at cookhjNOSPAM@hotmail.com (just remove the NOSPAM). thanks!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:40:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By CSGunWorkscom:
photoman

If you are looking for a 1-4x you may want to think about their 1.1-4x26 CRT illuminated Tactical Scope 30mm tube with that reticle. The reticle is a very good one.

www.csgunworks.com
mike@csgunworks.com
Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board
Mike at CS Gunworks is...




There were things I didn't like about the 1.1-4x26 when I was first looking at an AR optic, mainly the two original reticals. I ended up going with a VXII 1-4x20 leupold. About 6 months after I got that IOR popped out the 1.1-4 with the new reticals. I've considered getting one, but need to get glass on other guns first, I got two 2.5-10x42 Ill ret scopes I need to get(spr upper build and 30-06). I really wanted to get the 3x25 for this class were doing here with Sully, but I don't think there is any way I can come up with the cash quick enough. Ok so I could but the problem is that even if I do like the thing, there really is no way that I could keep it without jumping back into the hole $$ wise that I just dug myself out of.

Do you talk to anyone at IOR at all? If you do could you drop the idea of a 0 power version or a 1 power version of this thing, in say 30mm? Or even a 1-3 version that would compete head to head with that leupold.

Just off the pics there are a couple things I think they can imporve on. One is that the objective doesn't seem to have enough meat on it before the rails to take a scope cap(like the butler creek type) same with the rear, I know a cap on the rear may create problems with the diopter adjustments though, but ya gotta be able to protect that glass in some way, maybe even incorporate flip caps into it something like the aimpoints have(those are factory on aimpoints right?) Anyway just something to help protect the lenses. I managed to scratch the shit out of an old 3-9x40 scope on my hunting rifle once when a piece of wire from a fence got to the eye lens as I was crossing an old ass fence. Thats why I'm big on caps/covers that can be used real quick like the fip up ones.
The other is I don't know how useful the 3 and 12 rails would be as you have the turrets so close to them, whatever you mount is going to have to be short. Maybe you could fit a Doctor or optima 2k on it in a mount but I don't know I haven't played with either. I'll be able to see the pics better when I get home than on this crappy work computer. Yah I'm still stuck at work, should have left at 1500, but Murphy decided to show uptoday.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:48:46 PM EST
i had a 1.1x4 ior and had problems with the focus. i returned the scope to valdada's usa office and had a new replacement within 3 weeks. i sold it and bought a compact acog solely because of the weight difference. (bigant is a good guy whose opinions carry weight at falfiles!)
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:21:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:05:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By CSGunWorkscom:
You can but Butler Creek caps on it with no problem. The 1 or a 1.5 power one would be nice.

www.csgunworks.com
mike@csgunworks.com
Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board
Mike at CS Gunworks is...



Really? Do they cover up part of the rail??
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 7:23:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:38:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Chuck:
Perhaps this information is buried above, but...

What cartridge and weapon is this sight calibrated for? M4 Carbine and M885 Ball? Are other calibrations available?

Sight looks interesting at first glance. Too many unknowns to form a real opinion at present.

-- Chuck



I don't think thats a calibrated BDC. The turrets are marked 1/4MOA. The lines are probably just for rangefinding(mil tics) much like the lines in the MP8 retical.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:47:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/6/2004 7:16:30 AM EST by Forest]

Originally Posted By CSGunWorkscom:
Compact ACOG 3x24 are very nice but they are not the same price. The COMPACT ACOG are $807.00 and the LaRue Mount $95.00 = $902.00. The IOR is 3X25 QR-TS is $649.93 a $259.07 difference.


That might be the MSRP but if you look around there are deals to get them cheaper (I know I got mine for alot less).



The IOR QR-TS is more comparable to the TA01 ACOG.


I'd say the ACOG has it beat hands down then. Again no batteris, a larger light gathering lens, LaRue Mount available, and a track record of durability.

I like the idea of the IOR - but the Chech's are nuts to price it so high. I know their manufacturing costs are not nearly as high as Trijicon's are in the US - and Trijicon has to deal with the NRC due to the tritium lamps.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:26:33 PM EST
Forest,

It's not Chech it's Romanian.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:21:46 PM EST
Czech

...and they are Romanian.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:24:23 PM EST
And the difference is ?

­
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:49:48 PM EST
Is the illumination on the reticle strong enough for BAC shooting? IOR:s other illuminated reticles are useless during daylight.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 4:18:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Finn:
Is the illumination on the reticle strong enough for BAC shooting? IOR:s other illuminated reticles are useless during daylight.



Depending on target/Background color my retical isn't all that bad durring day light, but I've actually never ran into a situation where I'd have used a lit ret. in the day time it was mor ejust checking it out and seeing what would and wouldn't work.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 6:42:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:42:14 AM EST
Like the idea of a range finding reticule, and then come ups on a elevation knob, and adjustment for windage over a BDC. Thing is, looks like the knobs work backwards, as in counter clock wise for up and right, and what is up with 1/4 MOA adjustments on a 3x25?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:19:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:22:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 3:23:24 PM EST by CSGunWorkscom]
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:32:45 PM EST
Yup- that's what I'm gonna do... let me ask this- what type of tests do people want to see? I have one one the way- and of course cold weather because I'm in Vermont but is there any other tests people want? I am slightly wary about a hardcore drop test because this scope is probibly going on the new upper I'll build for my dad for christmas. I'll also try to get pics as best I can... ones like this hopefully will show the reticle better then the drawing...

My IOR 2.5-10x42 MP-8 reticle




So lets list what tests everyone wants to see.... a dunk test?, box drill mabye for adjustments? just list them so I have an idea what to write up about....

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:10:42 AM EST
Cool, clock wise for up and for right?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:25:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:21:57 AM EST
What kind of batteries does it use?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:47:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:46:10 AM EST
Hello, I am Richard with USAOPTICS, we are the Master Distributor on the East Coast for IOR and I can help with a few of these questions...

It uses the same batteries as the rest of their scopes, the CR2032 Round Watch Battery. Commonly found at any Wal-Mart
The reticle lines are used for rangefinding I am building a link detailing it fully and will have it up by the end of the week, I have a link on our website WWW.USAOPTICS.NET that explains the MP8.

With the adjustment knobs, they click in pretty firm, it takes a solid nudge to really knock them out of zero. It is very solid, we have customers in Georgia shooting them and they have noticed that. They also liked the performance of the illumination in the reticle.

We are new here at AR15.com and will be glad to help with any IOR questions.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:52:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By USA_OPTICS:
Hello, I am Richard with USAOPTICS, we are the Master Distributor on the East Coast for IOR and I can help with a few of these questions...

It uses the same batteries as the rest of their scopes, the CR2032 Round Watch Battery. Commonly found at any Wal-Mart
The reticle lines are used for rangefinding I am building a link detailing it fully and will have it up by the end of the week, I have a link on our website WWW.USAOPTICS.NET that explains the MP8.

With the adjustment knobs, they click in pretty firm, it takes a solid nudge to really knock them out of zero. It is very solid, we have customers in Georgia shooting them and they have noticed that. They also liked the performance of the illumination in the reticle.

We are new here at AR15.com and will be glad to help with any IOR questions.



Thanks I am thinking about what I want to buy for my next deployment optics, waiting to get details on this sight.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:06:44 AM EST
We have the specs on our Website, and all the info from the Importer. We also have a unit that has been away at testing for about 2 weeks. I have 2 clients with these units overseas, so far everything is holding up well, even in Direct Sunlight and in HIGH GLARE Situations. If you need any specific spec that I dont have listed let me know Im sure we could dig it up for you.

Richard Augat
USAOPTICS
WWW.USAOPTICS.NET
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:38:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:08:40 PM EST
So like other IOR scopes the reticle is too dim to be used as a BAC optic correct? Why did they put those gay-ass rails on there which make the scope too heavy? If they would use a carry handle channel mount (so we can use LaRue mounts) and dropped the rails and made it brighter it would be a winner. If they could do a 1-3X variable that size it would be even better. I dont care for the reticle myself... seems too busy.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:05:48 PM EST
I had a chance to play with this at SHOT, and have used the CQB reticle on a 1.1-4 IOR I've got mounted on a 16" Les Baer AR.

First off, the accessory rail mount slides off, or at least the model I saw it would. So, if you don't have any use for it, pop it off. I personnally don't have any use for it.

The optic is designed so that once the weapon is zeroed, you don't have to touch the knobs. Just use the reticle for holdovers. A Mil reticle was chosen because it will provide holdovers for ANY thing you stick it on. Otherwise if they did a BDC reticle for 5.56 62 grain people would complain they wanted it for Black Hills 77 grain, or 55 grain, or 7.62mm 147, or ??
This way you simply log your actual drop to where it corresponds on the reticle. I shot my AR out to 600 yards, and with 77 grain Black Hills Match I simply hold up 4.25 Mils and hammer. It's quick and simple on man sized targets. Just know your gun.

capped knobs would have been nice.....

I don't like the integral base either, but at least it's rugged.....

A straight 1X? Why bother? That's what they make Red Dots for.

A 1-3X? To make it a variable by nature would dictate that it be longer. Making it
a dual magnification optic such as a 1x/3x (rather than a variable) might be possible
down the road, but I don't believe that is the nitch they have this model intended for.

I'm waiting on one for review now.

Things to look at when reviewing:

Overall quality, fit and finish, such as does the rubber piece on the ocular fall off the first time you try to adjust it, does it fit a standard MIL STD 1913 rail properly, are the nuts 12mm or 1/2 inch, can the accessory rail be easily removed.
Box the scope to check adjustments throughout it's ENTIRE range. This will take a BIG piece of
cardboard, but it's important to see if it tracks true not only towards the center but towards the edges as well, of both windage and elevation. Also to ensure the adjustments are .25".
Check the reticle to see if it subtends 5, 10, and 15 Mils correctly.
Check it optically, such as with a Zeiss ZTP chart, in the center of the FOV as well as the edges. Check for resolution as well as distortion. Check light transmission at dusk and in lowlight conditions. Check reticle intensity, and rheostat reliability/consistancy. Reticle brightness/usability in bright light AND low light. Is the reticle bright enough to be used in bright sunny conditions? Is it too bright even turned all the way down in lowlight?
Check for internal flare by looking in the general direction of the setting sun.
Check repeatability of mount by zeroing scope and then removing and installing optic.
Leave submerged in water for 24 hours to check seals.
The real test will be to see how it holds up 6-18 months down the road after hard use.

time will tell........

difference between Czech optics and Romanian? Well the Czech's currently build spotting scopes for Carl Zeiss, Meopta rocks........the Romanians on the other hand are probably the ONLY European optics manufacturer quick to listen and adjust their product line specifically for the US rather than European market....
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:46:10 PM EST



i know one thing for sure the ACOG is built here in the USA



so you guys wont to go up against a ACOG ?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:38:40 PM EST
I'll put it against an ACOG... it's a bit heavier but with the reticle it has it is worth it.... kinda like the donut of death for ACOGs....

the reticle is not too busy- actually it's just about right, when I first looked through it I thought it was a bit too small and not easy enough to pick up- but I was wrong... it's pretty damn quick...

the lines are not what is shown in the pictures (one thing I've noticed with IOR... the reticles are not always exactly as drawn on the computer) and it has the round donut- then 4 lines with a dot in the center of the donut - two circles (don't know what they are yet- almost look to be a human head at 300 and 600 meters- anyone know? only the 3 is marked) and 5 lines going down- labled 2, 6, 10....

the rails i'm guessing are for something like another red dot type of sight (dr optics one mabye?) because even though it's got the donut reticle it's still 3 power and not ideal if you're in a house... what it IS good for though seemes to be medium range shooting- say 25- 4 or 500 yards depending on what you're shooting at... I'll agree, I think the rails are one of those fads that's going around now- but that is the only "rail" system I have- I could mount a laser, light and back up red dot just to this scope... how practical? I'm not sure- I'll have to try it out... As for the reticle being too dim- Get one and look through it... I think they have it about right- if it's bright enough to wash out the reticle, then it's bright enough to not need it to be on. It still gets dim enough to use while it's pretty damn dark out too... The illumination on this scope seems to be right on- brigher then my 2.5-10 which isn't ment to be on all the time anyway- that's just for low light shooting and in that case you don't want it to be bright for two reasons- one: it washes out what you're shooting at and two: it gives a brighter muzzle side signatire... also you CAN use this as an occulted eye gunsight. The rails don't way anything- the mount is what makes the weight in this and they come off..had mine off tonight.... I don't think they had the idea that people would use the LaRue mount on this either- not something that a company plans on... If you want a LaRue mount for it- get the EOTech mount... that would work. The mount that's on there is a tank of a mount.... very over built but since it is- I won't doubt that it's tough... As for a vari model... it would be nice- more like the US Optics SN-4..... but this isn't that- it's a 3 power and it does what it's supposed to do...
As for having covers for the knobs- I take mine off on my 2.5-10 anyway so I don't notice it. They have enough of a postive click that you would notice and have a tough time moving them by accident.

I see this as a designated marksman type sight- something where you can shoot it at 10 yards but at the same time you have the ability to reach out to 600.... I really like the reticle and I'm looking foward to getting some range time to see how it does out to 550 (at least at this range)

I'll have mine at the range hopefully tomorow- followed by some banging around in my truck while I'm offroading so we'll see how it does... I'll be doing a write up on it probibly around January I think- I MAY do one before then also then do a write up on how it does in the cold (I'm in Vermont- it CAN dip below the -40 that they say it's rated to)

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:30:44 PM EST
If the reticle is not BRIGHT during broad daylight it cant be used BAC style and there fore because its fixed power it is USELESS as a CQB optic. Not quick ditch either so if it goes out your just stuck with a useless weapon till you can whip out a tool to remove it. A TA11 or TA31 is far more usefull. You dont need mil ranging ticks till 300+ yards and a 3X scope is not meant to shoot 300+ yards. I have decided this thing sucks.

Cant wait to see how the Nightforce 1-4X scope will be at only .5oz heavier, daytime usable reticle, can use LaRue mount, and we know it will track. I prefer the Nightforce reticle choice too... much simpler for a 200-300m max range scope.
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