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Link Posted: 11/24/2021 6:52:27 PM EDT
[#1]
The right buffer weight is a noticeable improvement - in gas, and in reliability, since you can easily run the bolt too fast or slow - but if you're going to shoot both with and without the can I still suggest an adjustable carrier because swapping buffers isn't really practical, leaving you with a compromise solution.  

If you shoot 100% suppressed, it's not as important.   I would lean towards buffer swaps vs. messing with the springs; using normal springs means they're a cheap, easy to find wear item vs. some unusual type.
Link Posted: 11/29/2021 4:11:28 PM EDT
[#2]
so far the gasket maker is working really well. not sure if the colder weather is making it work even better, but i fired off 20 rounds, including a few higher volume fast bursts, no problem. maybe i should try 5 quick rounds without the sunglasses?
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 2:36:28 AM EDT
[#3]
Adj gas block if you can.

Other option:
       a few years ago, I had a 14.5 upper with pinned FH and old URX that I couldn’t work on without un-pinning the FH, to change the GB and I was undecided about updating to newer URX.  The blowback suppressed was the major concern. It made me look at Bootleg adj BCG and it works.  I’ve found after experimenting on that and other uppers that the bootleg, and any of the “anti-blowback” CHs together got rid of most if not all blowback depending on barrel length. Playing with the buffer and spring could increase lockup and potentially lower amount of gas. But the bootleg, and Ch together got rid of most of it, if it’s an upper you don’t feel like removing the HG and GB on.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 1:24:17 PM EDT
[#4]
I hardly ever shoot semi autos suppressed now. The cool factor wore off pretty quickly, to be replaced by endless cleanings, gas face, POI shift, etc. Just not a fan.

However, I LOVE shooting my bolt gun suppressed. Flash and recoil are damped down tremendously so you can track your bullets and see your hits, and no action cycling to let gas escape.
Link Posted: 12/13/2021 3:06:07 AM EDT
[#5]
So, to update...

Thus far, having taken it out a few times with a box or two spent each time, I've found the cheap-o solution of using gasket maker on the charging handle to be quite the fix. There's a bit more gas than unsuppressed to deal with (coming out the ejection port), but it's entirely manageable, even when unloading 10+ rounds in rapid succession.

It does still get quite dirty, and I might come back around to considering a heavier buffer in my fancy JP captured spring... but for now, I'm happy with the fix.
Link Posted: 12/23/2021 12:51:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Suppressors have made me real picky about gas system setups and who I buy barrels from.

Just replaced a gassy PSA 10.5” barrel with an Andro Corp 10.3” ‘Crane Spec’ gas port and it seems to make a noticeable difference in gas blowback and ejection pattern. I’m also using a standard milspec charging handle and the gas blowback seems much more tolerable now.

My ‘go-to’ 14.5” Midlength build has a SOLGW barrel, whom advertises having correctly sized gas ports. Combined with the shelf on the Geissele ACH handle I barely notice the gas blowback.

Or maybe you just get used to it over time?
Link Posted: 1/8/2022 2:23:08 PM EDT
[#7]
while on this topic...

has anyone used a side charging upper for their ar with a suppressor?
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 1:04:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Expecting a charging handle to drastically reduce gas in your face is unrealistic. The PRI will slightly reduce gas, but nothing dramatically. Save your money and actually fix the issue with a BRT gas tube. Then, do process of elimination after that. I have over a dozen suppressors and each weapon system has to configured for that particular weapon/suppressor combination.

Steps to eliminate gas in your face:

1) reduce gas port size (can be done with BRT gas tube)
2)  venting BCG like CMC or Bootleg
3) H3 buffer
4) gas reducing charging handle

By the time you are hoping a charging handle will help, the gas is already right by your face and the cutout for diversion is small in comparison to the amount of pressure and gas. I like the gas buster, but assuming it will solve your problem without doing steps 1-3 can be a futile effort
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 8:31:11 PM EDT
[#9]
A lot of good points here.  

Bear in mind that everyone seems to have different levels of sensitivity when it comes to the amount of blowback is tolerable.  What you may not notice may drive someone else crazy.

I agree with the post above that the number one thing to be concerned with is port size.  If you're barrel is already grossly oversized then a heavy buffer isn't going to do much.  

If your host AR already is pretty violent and throwing brass at 1 O'clock and you put a suppressor on there you are are just asking for trouble.

Someone mentioned the LMT carrier with the 'enhanced' cam pin geometry.

There is also the Surefire suppressor Optimized Bolt Carrier which also has an enhanced cam pin geometry to keep the bolt locked longer, as well as other attributes like an extended stroke and spring loaded carrier weight.

I posted some about this on this thread:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/16-inch-barrel-recommendation-for-dedicated-suppressed-use-direct-thread-turbo-k-/118-769413/?r=8366602&page=1&anc=8366602#i8366602

and this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Suppressor-Options-that-Mitigate-Blowback-Backpressure/20-531540/

From one of the threads above:

Probably the smoothest and most pleasant 556 upper I've fired in full auto is pictured below.  Same lower configuration as above as well (Surefire OBC also).16" rifle length gas but with a custom fat gas tube for increased volume.There is zero gas to the face.  Even enjoyable for one of my friends that is a lefty.  Super nice and slow full auto cyclic rate of 576 RPM as well.



Link Posted: 1/10/2022 9:10:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A lot of good points here.  

Bear in mind that everyone seems to have different levels of sensitivity when it comes to the amount of blowback is tolerable.  What you may not notice may drive someone else crazy.

I agree with the post above that the number one thing to be concerned with port size.  If you're barrel is already grossly oversized then a heavy buffer isn't going to do much.  

If your host AR already is pretty violent and throwing brass at 1 O'clock and you put a suppressor on there you are are just asking for trouble.

Someone mentioned the LMT carrier with the 'enhanced' cam pin geometry.

There is also the Surefire suppressor Optimized Bolt Carrier which also has an enhanced cam pin geometry to keep the bolt locked longer, as well as other attributes like an extended stroke and spring loaded carrier weight.

I posted some about this on this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/16-inch-barrel-recommendation-for-dedicated-suppressed-use-direct-thread-turbo-k-/118-769413/?r=8366602&page=1&anc=8366602#i8366602

and this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Suppressor-Options-that-Mitigate-Blowback-Backpressure/20-531540/

From one of the threads above:

Probably the smoothest and most pleasant 556 upper I've fired in full auto is pictured below.  Same lower configuration as above as well (Surefire OBC also).16" rifle length gas but with a custom fat gas tube for increased volume.There is zero gas to the face.  Even enjoyable for one of my friends that is a lefty.  Super nice and slow full auto cyclic rate of 576 RPM as well.
https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/16-Rifle_556Tubb_A5-SurefireOBC-RB5005-Spacer-093port-556Specwar-1024x348.jpg


View Quote


The best BCG I have used with a high back pressure can is the CMC. It has extra port like LMT, but also reduced contact points and just really smooth. It balances out some of the back pressure. No doubt, it does help.
Link Posted: 1/10/2022 10:49:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The best BCG I have used with a high back pressure can is the CMC. It has extra port like LMT, but also reduced contact points and just really smooth. It balances out some of the back pressure. No doubt, it does help.
View Quote
Interesting.  I never tried a CMC carrier...Never tried an LMT enhanced either.

However, I'm wondering how a lefty would perceive the additional gas port in the carrier?  I would think it would jet the gas in the face of a lefty.

Have you tried a Surefire or enhanced LMT that has the altered cam pin path?
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 12:43:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Expecting a charging handle to drastically reduce gas in your face is unrealistic. The PRI will slightly reduce gas, but nothing dramatically. Save your money and actually fix the issue with a BRT gas tube. Then, do process of elimination after that. I have over a dozen suppressors and each weapon system has to configured for that particular weapon/suppressor combination.

Steps to eliminate gas in your face:

1) reduce gas port size (can be done with BRT gas tube)
2)  venting BCG like CMC or Bootleg
3) H3 buffer
4) gas reducing charging handle

By the time you are hoping a charging handle will help, the gas is already right by your face and the cutout for diversion is small in comparison to the amount of pressure and gas. I like the gas buster, but assuming it will solve your problem without doing steps 1-3 can be a futile effort
View Quote


I've actually found that sealing the back of the charging handle up kept it from blowing in my face pretty much entirely, so I'm happy with that.

I am interested in something like changing gas ports, however, as you mention. This is because the thing now gets dirty as fuck. After only 20, 30, 40 rounds, too. I was already figuring adjusting the gas would be the way to go... if I can do it with a tube instead of a gas block, probably better, right?
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 12:44:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A lot of good points here.  

Bear in mind that everyone seems to have different levels of sensitivity when it comes to the amount of blowback is tolerable.  What you may not notice may drive someone else crazy.

I agree with the post above that the number one thing to be concerned with port size.  If you're barrel is already grossly oversized then a heavy buffer isn't going to do much.  

If your host AR already is pretty violent and throwing brass at 1 O'clock and you put a suppressor on there you are are just asking for trouble.

Someone mentioned the LMT carrier with the 'enhanced' cam pin geometry.

There is also the Surefire suppressor Optimized Bolt Carrier which also has an enhanced cam pin geometry to keep the bolt locked longer, as well as other attributes like an extended stroke and spring loaded carrier weight.

I posted some about this on this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/16-inch-barrel-recommendation-for-dedicated-suppressed-use-direct-thread-turbo-k-/118-769413/?r=8366602&page=1&anc=8366602#i8366602

and this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Suppressor-Options-that-Mitigate-Blowback-Backpressure/20-531540/

From one of the threads above:

Probably the smoothest and most pleasant 556 upper I've fired in full auto is pictured below.  Same lower configuration as above as well (Surefire OBC also).16" rifle length gas but with a custom fat gas tube for increased volume.There is zero gas to the face.  Even enjoyable for one of my friends that is a lefty.  Super nice and slow full auto cyclic rate of 576 RPM as well.
https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/16-Rifle_556Tubb_A5-SurefireOBC-RB5005-Spacer-093port-556Specwar-1024x348.jpg


View Quote


I don't understand something: why would more volume result in less gas? I'd think this would allow for more.
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 12:45:16 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A Radian Raptor SD charging handle is an option.
View Quote


raptor SD and superlative arms bleed off agb ftw
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 7:11:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I don't understand something: why would more volume result in less gas? I'd think this would allow for more.
View Quote
https://www.mountsplus.com/pri-fat-boy-replacement-gas-tube-for-m4-carbine.html

Unfortunately, only commercially made for carbine length.  Which is why I had to get the rifle length custom made.  I'm working on getting some custom made for mid gas as well.

Yes, more volume to fill means more time....  extending the time when the action is locked.  In full auto, this means it will slow the cyclic rate down which is one reason Colt did this for the LMG.  It smoothes out the recoil impulse.
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 10:46:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I've actually found that sealing the back of the charging handle up kept it from blowing in my face pretty much entirely, so I'm happy with that.

I am interested in something like changing gas ports, however, as you mention. This is because the thing now gets dirty as fuck. After only 20, 30, 40 rounds, too. I was already figuring adjusting the gas would be the way to go... if I can do it with a tube instead of a gas block, probably better, right?
View Quote


The gasket sealer on the charging handle does help a lot. I just personally never got around to doing it. The Armageddon charging handle is the way to go if someone must try out a suppressor optimized charging handle, but I am convinced the gasket sealer approach is better than any factory venting charging handle. Everyone I know who has done it states of noticeable results

Gas port sizing is always the way to go for a suppressed weapon, and BRT answered the call in a convenient t and easy solution.
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 11:07:09 AM EDT
[#17]
charging handle, bootleg bcg and a little heavier buffer. in my opinion a gas block cuts down on what goes through that little gas tube but a lot of your gas is coming from the chamber/ port. adjustable bcg sends more gas out the side and not in the direction of your face then reducing port gases a little. but i might be wrong. it really helped my overgassed 11.5 smooth out and not kill me with exhaust. also feels smoother like the internals are not being so destructive to one another.
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 12:01:21 PM EDT
[#18]
@Shinobi15

Adjustable gas blocks are not the fix you need. They are prone to failure and a tuned rifle would serve you better.

I'd start by determining the gas port size by consulting the "AR gas port size chart" if a known common barrel, or by using a set of pin gauges.

Then if too large, look into an insert or the following:

https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/BRT-EZTUNE-Gas-Tube_p_202.html

Also, figure out what buffer weight and spring (Do some reading here to start https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/ar-15-buffers-and-buffer-springs-basics/)

I'd recommend the appropriate buffer/ Sprinco spring combo, or if you really want a smooth setup go with the VLTOR A5 and appropriate buffer/spring.
Link Posted: 1/27/2022 5:59:20 PM EDT
[#19]
can you explain how exactly to determine your needed gas tube size?
Link Posted: 1/27/2022 7:16:19 PM EDT
[#20]
I just bought a PRI ambi charging handle. It's nice but fucking large. Also not serrated. I will have to use it more before I have an opinion.

  Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/27/2022 8:38:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just bought a PRI ambi charging handle. It's nice but fucking large. Also not serrated. I will have to use it more before I have an opinion.

  https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/310612/PXL_20220126_061330326_2_jpg-2256835.JPG
View Quote


LOL yeah, they are big bitches, ain't they?  One of my employees just got his first can, and might take mine off my hands.  I like my OG GasBusters, and the RTV trick.  Not sure, I'm torn.
Link Posted: 1/27/2022 9:15:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
So I just completed a form 1 with a quietbore, and the sound reduction is great. As in, no pain or muting in the ears (not that I'd do it a lot) whatsoever good. I'm very pleased.

But the blowback, god dayam. The overwhelming smell is one thing, but the stinging in the eyes... Yeah, I'm going to be getting an adjustable gas block.

I see that Aero makes one, but any suggestions are welcome. As well as tips and pointers that I'll need...?

Bonus question: with a long rail, being unable to get calipers over my barrel, anyone happen to know what size an 5.56 LWRC DI barrel is?
View Quote


Getting an adjustable gaas block is the right move. This will allow you to tune it so that you have the most gas going through the suppressor, and the least gas going into the action and your face.

I recommend one that uses a set screw for infinite adjustability, as the detent based ones don't always offer enough fine tuning to really eliminate excess gas.
Also avoid any bleed off type gas blocks - you don't want gas bleeding off as that bypasses the suppressor.

Once you have the adjustable gas block, you can further reduce gas to the face by reducing the weight of your BCG and/or buffer and/or spring tension. Any of those things will reduce the amount of gas needed to cycle which means you can tune the gas down even lower, if you want.

You can also look at special gas buster charger handles, and/or apply the RTV mod to toot charging handle.

Do all of the above, abd I guarantee you will not be having any gas issues in your face
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 4:08:10 AM EDT
[#23]
I have Geissele Super Charging Handle on my 556 and a SN-ACH on my 308. I sealed both with Permatex RTV gasket compound and I don't get gas to the face with either. The SN-ACH is kind of funny because it vents out the side. Without RTV it's probably the better of the 2. With RTV though, I couldn't really tell a difference. I also have a Radian Raptor SD charging handle that i bought for my faux MP5SD, but I haven't gotten my CMMG RDB BCG & barrel yet and haven't tried it on my ARs, so I can't really comment on how good it is. I'll probably seal it up too though.

As far as gas to the face with piston vs DI guns, I wasn't specifically paying attention. It felt like I had less gas getting to my face with my ACR, but to be honest, I didn't really notice much difference with the sealed charging handle on my AR. The ACR is a night and day difference when it comes to clean internals after shooting unsuppressed. I haven't looked at either gun yet since my shooting session this weekend. The AR got my mags and ammo absolutely filthy though.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 12:15:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well, the first thing I'm going to be trying (have already started actually) is using permatex silicone gasket maker to seal around that charging handle. If that isn't enough, PRI gas buster charging handle will be on order.

Thanks all for letting me know about the charging handle fix, hopefully the cheap solution will work.

Would love to clip the baffles, but don't have a mill handy.
View Quote


Just get the Bootleg BCG. Then you don't have to fuck around with any of that other stuff. Trust me.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 12:19:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah, but at that point I might as well just get another rifle. I've also heard it said that it didn't help much, though I don't understand how that could be.

Another thing I'm confused about- how would a heavier bolt (or spring, for that matter), make a difference? The higher pressure is still reaching the chamber, right? The physics of it make me think that either a different sized gas block or tube would be the only way to lower the pressure coming back into the chamber.
View Quote

PWS is what you seek.
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