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Posted: 10/13/2004 8:30:06 AM EST
Ive got some unwanted slop between my upper and lower. which is better? a wedge that goes on the back of the lower? or one of those rear takedon pins that can be tightened?

Not too concerned about price (well, i am a little concerned), more worried about ease of installation, and effectiveness.


TIA
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:34:37 AM EST
Tensioner pin, no question.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:34:55 AM EST
don't get either.
use a small dab of epoxy or RTV on the bottom side of the rear lug.
let it dry and put the upper and lower together.
sand the dab down untill you get the desired fit.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:57:01 AM EST
I've done both.

the tension pin works very well, but SUCKS BAD when you're in a HP match and have a short stroking issue and need a tool to open up your AR!!

Thus, I now use the accuwedge, and it works great.

I vote wedge.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:59:56 AM EST
I've had good luck with the Accuwedge. Here's one installed in one of my rifles.

And, I've proven to my satisfaction that it will improve accuracy in a top notch rifle.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:20:55 AM EST
I use both. I have tried both in several rifles and the only one I now use the Tension pin is my Armalite M15-A4 (T) which is my long-range tiny-group rifle. In the Colt and DPMS .458 SOCOM, I really saw no big advantage of the pin over the wedge, and the pin makes take-down a PITA. I don't even use the wedge in the Colt due to having to cut the wedge down so much to make it work; that was more of a PITA than using the wedge, so I leave the Colt as-is. The pistol, Bushy, and now the Ameetec .458 SOCOM (Switched upper to properly marked lower) all use the wedge.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:42:15 AM EST
thnak guys

so, how exactly does the wedge work anyway? does it apply friction to the pin? Or put pressure on the sides of the upper/lower?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:16:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 10:18:19 AM EST by El_Roto]
The AccuWedge takes up the space between the upper and the lower where they come together at the rear takedown pin. Since it's rubber (or springy, anyway), it pushes against the upper, thus creating tension again the pin and removing any slop.

That's about right, isn't it?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:22:13 AM EST
I thought about using RTV but you can't get the depth right, not exact at least.

I ordered an AccuWedge and if it lasts the life of the rifle, it's well worth it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:24:14 AM EST
I thought this was about me.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:36:23 AM EST
wedge
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:45:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
I thought this was about me.


Duh! It's always about you, dude!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:45:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 10:47:01 AM EST by wedge1082]

Originally Posted By El_Roto:

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
I thought this was about me.


Duh! It's always about you, dude!


That's what I keep telling people.

The world would be a much better place if people would stop always thinking of themselves and start thinking of how their actions might affect me.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:32:29 PM EST
Kind of a dumb question but I've never had a real need for a wedge...but how does it stay in place?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:19:17 PM EST
It stays in place when the gun is closed b/c the lug on the upper pushes down (rather it pushes up on the lug) and is "wedged" into the lower. There is so much pressure that it can't wiggle lose. I should actually say "shouldn't" rather than "can't" because someone will prob prove me wrong. There is also that flange on the back of it, that sits between the lug and the rear face of the lower reciever shelf. Hope that helps.

This answer was given under the assumption that the question was about whether or not it would/could come loose in the AR during use.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:27:34 PM EST
I meant when it was open and your takedown pin was pulled out. Sorry for not specifying that.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:51:22 PM EST
Well, you see, you walk up behind a person and grab their underwear and pull up as hard as you can. If possible hang them from a coathook by said underwear... Oh, no wait, that's a wedgie... Nevermind.h.gif
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:58:22 PM EST
I'll insert my stupid question here. I have a RRA upper and lower with just a little slop. While at the last gun show, I got a couple of accuwedges.

I tried to put one in last night, but there is not enough room. Installed like Old_Painless's photo, the upper and lower is about 3/8" from closing. The bottom of the wedge blocks the pin hole. I even cut it down until the bottom portion of the accuwedge is about .05" thick, and still the upper and lower were about 1/16" from closing. I tried to squeeze them together, but still no-go!

What am I missing?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:48:11 PM EST
Do these things actually improve performance? I had one of each but I didnt notice a difference. Then there was the time at a Army Qualification range I got handed a beat up A1 I had never seen before, thought I might fold it in half from the loose fit, and shot just fine which really surprised me.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:59:23 PM EST
I put an o ring on the front pivot post. That takes the slop out and it does fall out. It also is a good idea for the lowers that have the high shelf and the wedge won't work. Sometimes the o-ring breaks but it stays in place until you open the weapon, then it is a .20 cent fix.
Chip
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 5:01:44 PM EST
@Homer - Sometimes it takes a bit of trimming to get one to seat in a rifle that's not too sloppy, but it sounds like you already have a nice and tight lockup between your upper and lower. Maybe you don't need one.

@Matt - There are those who swear by them, others who decry them as nothing but pacifiers ("The lower has nothing to do with accuracy!") and would like to see them banned from their shooting line. I can't say my rifle is more accurate with one, but it feels more solid, and that means something to me.

I guess I'm in the "pacifier" crowd.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:25:40 AM EST
Well Im going to order one today.
My lower is a RRA so I should expect to have to trim a little to get it to fit huh?

Im not worried about it improving accuracy (if it does thats great) I just dont like feeling the upper/lower wiggle so much. So, put me inthe pacifier crowd also!
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:44:40 AM EST
davidp14,

I don't think the wedge will work for you either. I have a RRA lower also. I trimmed my accuwedge down to just the wedge part, and the upper and lower still would not close enough to permit the pin to go back in. I think my problem is like hollowhandle mentioned, a "high shelf". I'm going to go with the O-ring plan.

If I have time tonight, I'll take some photos.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:05:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Matt:
Do these things actually improve performance? I had one of each but I didnt notice a difference. Then there was the time at a Army Qualification range I got handed a beat up A1 I had never seen before, thought I might fold it in half from the loose fit, and shot just fine which really surprised me.



Honestly, I had been thinking about this whole accuwedge stuff, and I personally don't see how it would do ANYTHING to affect accuracy....

Think about it, as soon as the hammer hits the firing pin, the bullet in the chamber moves down the barrel in the path you have set it to go. Accuracy in an AR-15, assuming good chamber and barrel, depends on how well you have aligned your sights, which are solely on the upper. I don't understanding how keeping the fire controls stable against a negligible amount of gap is going to tighten your groups.

And another thing, because the accuwedge pushes the upper upward, doesn't it simply WIDEN the gap between your lower and upper? From the way it is implemented, it seems to me that yes, your rifle will experience less rattle, but wouldn't the beam of light between your upper and lower actually increase?
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:21:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Matt:
Do these things actually improve performance? I had one of each but I didnt notice a difference. Then there was the time at a Army Qualification range I got handed a beat up A1 I had never seen before, thought I might fold it in half from the loose fit, and shot just fine which really surprised me.



LOL! Nice description.

I personally don't think they do anything more than increase shooter confidence. (Which is a good thing, for sure, but, as said earlier, a pacifier.) My personal match rifle will rattle if you grasp it by the forend and twist it without grasping/supporting the lower. It will shoot ~MOA all day long, which is better than I can hold even in prone. So no worries.

Do what makes you confident and comfortable with your equipment. If it means installing a wedge or tension pin, go to it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:25:08 AM EST
i like the wedge better than any tensioning pin.

with the wedge if you decide you dont need it all you have to do is pull it out of there

with the tensioning pin you would have to find tools to remove it and then if you wanna take it out completly you will have to install you pin, spring and detent

just my opinion on the subject. but its your rifle and you do as you please
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 8:27:06 AM EST
Hmmm.......[puts CC back in wallet slowly]

alright anybody else had trouble getting a wedge in their RRA lower?

I could certainly live with the rattle if its gonna turn out to be more trouble than its worth, like I said its not an accuracy issue........purely for peace of mind.

I'll take a look at some more tensioner pins.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:07:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:

Honestly, I had been thinking about this whole accuwedge stuff, and I personally don't see how it would do ANYTHING to affect accuracy....

Think about it, as soon as the hammer hits the firing pin, the bullet in the chamber moves down the barrel in the path you have set it to go. Accuracy in an AR-15, assuming good chamber and barrel, depends on how well you have aligned your sights, which are solely on the upper. I don't understanding how keeping the fire controls stable against a negligible amount of gap is going to tighten your groups.

And another thing, because the accuwedge pushes the upper upward, doesn't it simply WIDEN the gap between your lower and upper? From the way it is implemented, it seems to me that yes, your rifle will experience less rattle, but wouldn't the beam of light between your upper and lower actually increase?




I don't see the big deal either. I've shot well with plenty of loose rifles. I use a sling most of the time, so the pull of the sling takes out the slack between the receivers.

If you stop and think about it, the wedge will only hurt your rifle in the long run. The constant pressure of the lug being forced against the pin will slowly increase the size of the hole and cause your receivers to have an even looser fit than they did before.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 1:16:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Houndawg:
If you stop and think about it, the wedge will only hurt your rifle in the long run. The constant pressure of the lug being forced against the pin will slowly increase the size of the hole and cause your receivers to have an even looser fit than they did before.



+1
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 1:26:02 PM EST
I use the wedge simply because I dont like the rattling noise Bushy Lower RRA Upper after trimmer the wedge are as snug together as a bug in a rug... improve accuracy? Nah..... git rid of unwanted rattle ... Yes!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 1:33:26 PM EST

If you stop and think about it, the wedge will only hurt your rifle in the long run. The constant pressure of the lug being forced against the pin will slowly increase the size of the hole and cause your receivers to have an even looser fit than they did before.



How much pressure are you talking about? I trimmed it enough so that SOME hand compression is required to close it up enough for the pin to slide through. The pin looks like hardened steel, and my lower receiver is the 7075? forged aluminum and the upper is a forged RRA A4 upper. Would a rubber doohickey be able to wear out those metals? I'd imagine that any type of pressure from firing/working the rifle would be dissipated by compressing the softest object (rubber wedge) rather than wearing out metal
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:07:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By HomerSimpson:
I'll insert my stupid question here. I have a RRA upper and lower with just a little slop. While at the last gun show, I got a couple of accuwedges.

I tried to put one in last night, but there is not enough room. Installed like Old_Painless's photo, the upper and lower is about 3/8" from closing. The bottom of the wedge blocks the pin hole. I even cut it down until the bottom portion of the accuwedge is about .05" thick, and still the upper and lower were about 1/16" from closing. I tried to squeeze them together, but still no-go!

What am I missing?



I loose Rock River combo? I don't believe it! Seriously though! The reciever has a high shelf so go the cheap route & take a eraser off a #2 pencil & tim it to fit with a razorblade. Easy to find on a co-workers desk!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:06:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By metroplex:

If you stop and think about it, the wedge will only hurt your rifle in the long run. The constant pressure of the lug being forced against the pin will slowly increase the size of the hole and cause your receivers to have an even looser fit than they did before.



How much pressure are you talking about? I trimmed it enough so that SOME hand compression is required to close it up enough for the pin to slide through. The pin looks like hardened steel, and my lower receiver is the 7075? forged aluminum and the upper is a forged RRA A4 upper. Would a rubber doohickey be able to wear out those metals? I'd imagine that any type of pressure from firing/working the rifle would be dissipated by compressing the softest object (rubber wedge) rather than wearing out metal



What happens with the wedge is the rubber is compressed by the lug, and in turn the rubber pushes up on the lug forcing it against the pin, thereby taking out any play between the pin and lug. The constant pressure of the soft aluminum against the hard steel will eventually deform the aluminum and enlarge the hole. Granted, it's going to take a while for this to happen, probably years. Just something to think about.
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