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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 10/29/2004 12:01:14 PM EDT
i understand that there are restrictions on homemade guns "for personal use only" because there is no serial number but could i bring my AR15 to the range? if so would my 18 year old brother be allowed to take it to the range?
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 12:02:29 PM EDT
Your lower should have a S/N on it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 12:20:45 PM EDT
I just finished building it from an 80% lower there is no sn
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 12:31:36 PM EDT
Yeah, send an 18YO kid to the range with an AR with no SN on it, what a GOOD idea!

Seriously, dude, why go looking for trouble? And if the thing were MINE, I'd make damn sure I had some kind of documentation on it, as well as copies of all applicable fed, state, and local laws and BATF rulings whenever *I* had it off my personal property. It might be perfectly legal but I'll bet not one cop in five KNOWS THAT.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:58:26 PM EDT
Hello: i'm one of the 4 cops you mentioned,,,,,have i was thinking all lowers had a manufacture serial number?
Please Help Me, i want to be the ONE in five that knows this stuff!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:12:58 PM EDT
Does FL require a serial number on home-made firearms? Because the federal government does NOT.

Dragnet - can you state the statute that REQUIRES a person to have a serial number on a home-built firearm, for personal use? I didnt think so.

www.chesapeake.net/~mcfadden/bigtoys/law/1.jpg

www.chesapeake.net/~mcfadden/bigtoys/law/2.jpg

www.chesapeake.net/~mcfadden/bigtoys/law/3.jpg


Now, as to possesion.... it is typically held that the rifle must always be under the posession or control of the owner/builder. So no, you should not send it to a range (or anywhere) with someone else.... and you not be present.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:13:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snake45:
Yeah, send an 18YO kid to the range with an AR with no SN on it, what a GOOD idea!



Uhhhh.... missing a serial number has absolutely no bearing here.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:40:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Snake45:
Yeah, send an 18YO kid to the range with an AR with no SN on it, what a GOOD idea!



Uhhhh.... missing a serial number has absolutely no bearing here.


Dunno about where you are, but in my state, the 18YO in possession of an AR would be big trouble all by itself (unless the over-21 legal owner were present, of course). And the lack of SN sure wouldn't help things.

Or look at it this way: Even IF legal, would YOU want to be an 18YO kid trying to explain to some cop that it's legal? Even if you "win," you won't want to get caught doing 1 MPH over the posted limit in that jurisdiction EVER again.

My credo is: Trouble already has my home, business, and email addresses--I don't need to go looking for it EVER.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:00:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snake45:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Snake45:
Yeah, send an 18YO kid to the range with an AR with no SN on it, what a GOOD idea!



Uhhhh.... missing a serial number has absolutely no bearing here.



Dunno about where you are, but in my state, the 18YO in possession of an AR would be big trouble all by itself (unless the over-21 legal owner were present, of course).



What state is that? Federal law is 18. My state (Texas) is 18.


And the lack of SN sure wouldn't help things.


Again, it would make no damn difference. Show me the law that says otherwise.


Or look at it this way: Even IF legal, would YOU want to be an 18YO kid trying to explain to some cop that it's legal?


Jeez man, all I can do is obey the law..... you can't invent all these possiblities for ignorance..... and live your life. If it aint against the law, then carry on. It's still a free country.


Even if you "win," you won't want to get caught doing 1 MPH over the posted limit in that jurisdiction EVER again.


Dear god.


My credo is: Trouble already has my home, business, and email addresses--I don't need to go looking for it EVER.


Agreed. Glad that works for you. But lets try to stick to the facts when giving advice.

He didn't ask if anyone thought it was a good idea or not. He asked if there were restrictions.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:07:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

But lets try to stick to the facts when giving advice.

He didn't ask if anyone thought it was a good idea or not. He asked if there were restrictions.


That's right, and he didn't specify just FEDERAL restrictions, either. I don't know what Florida law is, and it doesn't sound like you do, either. And just because a thing is LEGAL doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good idea.

As to state laws, they can land you in the Graybar Hotel just as fast as the federal kind. For example, there's no federal law against restamping a gun's original serial number in another location if gunsmithing is going to deface it (for example, round-butting a revolver). But that's a no-no in my state, and I'll bet in others as well.

I still say an 18YO out with a no-SN AR that he has not personally built himself is a BAD IDEA. You go ahead and send YOUR kid out with one; I shall wait for you here.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:19:45 PM EDT
So you still wont answer my questions above... or give any facts......

What state do you live in?

What does a SN have to do with anything in this matter, as you stated it absolutely DID?

You might try keeping conjecture and supposition to yourself..... if you dont know what you are talking about.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:40:41 PM EDT
I didn't read anywhere that it had to be in his possesion at all times..... as long as it's still his and will be his and the gun is in a legal config. and the shooter is at least 18 and legal to posses a firearm.... ideally, there should be no problems.

How many times do you as a shooter at a range goto look at what serial number is on a fellow shooters gun? And how many time has the range operator checked the serial number of your gun?

I agree, there could be "complications" if some ignorant fellow shooter wanted to make a stink over it. But if ya don't go bragging or showing it off (hey look at this guys, no SN) you shouldn't have much of a problem. Carrying a copy of the laws referencing homemade firearms wouldn't be a bad idea either.



~Devin~

SNS Industries, Inc.
Snohomish, Wa.

Mfg. of quality AR15's
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:44:19 PM EDT
If it is legal for an 18 year old to use a rifle, it shouldn't be an issue. If he doesn't do anything stupid, again, it shouldn't be an issue.

If he is stupid (not saying he is), or if you need to be 21, then not having a serial number most likely means you aren't getting it back. On the other hand, you probably wouldn't get it back anyway...


I don't see it as an issue, I'm a cop, and the only cops who go the range are the ones who enjoy shooting and don't care about BS laws.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:06:01 AM EDT
Common sense would say.... if he doesnt show up at the range with the rifle and do something stupid, or go up to the first LEO that he runs into and ask... "hey Mr. Ociffer sir, can I shoot my older brothers rifle that has no sn on it here....??"

I mean how many times has someone at the range you shoot at come by the station you were posted to and checked the gun (or guns) you were shooting to see if it (or they) had seriel numbers..?? Has never happened to me....

I was born and raised in Tampa Bay, lived there most of my life... I never had any problems even when I was under 18 shooting at any gun ranges in the area... just use common sense..

but then again, he is just 18.... does he have any, is the question....



Link Posted: 10/30/2004 12:33:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bloodhound_K-9:
Hello: i'm one of the 4 cops you mentioned,,,,,have i was thinking all lowers had a manufacture serial number?
Please Help Me, i want to be the ONE in five that knows this stuff!!!!!hr


It's not a stripped lower it's an 80% lower. 80% finished the owner does the last 20% of the work. It is legal under fed law. No 4473 is required and there is no requirement for any marking on the lower. No make, model or serial number is required. In theory you could buy a 100 AR 80% lowers have a nice collection with ZERO paper trail.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 1:31:23 PM EDT
For those interested....florida law dealing with serial numbers on firearms

790.27 Alteration or removal of firearm serial number or possession, sale, or delivery of firearm with serial number altered or removed prohibited; penalties.--

(1)(a) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly alter or remove the manufacturer's or importer's serial number from a firearm with intent to disguise the true identity thereof.

(b) Any person violating paragraph (a) is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(2)(a) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly sell, deliver, or possess any firearm on which the manufacturer's or importer's serial number has been unlawfully altered or removed.

(b) Any person violating paragraph (a) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(3) This section shall not apply to antique firearms.

No place does it address building firearms and serializing homebuilt guns.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 2:17:16 PM EDT
I don't think I'd be going to any range where some yahoos wanted to look at my serial numbers. I've never had anyone look at them, including cops. Besides, if it's not illegal than there is no reason to try and invent possibilities of a problem. If it's not illegal and it sure doesn't seem like then that's it, no ifs, ands or buts about.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 11:46:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 11:47:56 PM EDT by American_Pride]

Originally Posted By flashooter:
For those interested....florida law dealing with serial numbers on firearms

790.27 Alteration or removal of firearm serial number or possession, sale, or delivery of firearm with serial number altered or removed prohibited; penalties.--

(1)(a) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly alter or remove the manufacturer's or importer's serial number from a firearm with intent to disguise the true identity thereof.

(b) Any person violating paragraph (a) is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(2)(a) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly sell, deliver, or possess any firearm on which the manufacturer's or importer's serial number has been unlawfully altered or removed.

(b) Any person violating paragraph (a) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(3) This section shall not apply to antique firearms.

No place does it address building firearms and serializing homebuilt guns.




Underlined for those who tend to skip the important parts
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 2:38:52 AM EDT
My information is that it is not illegal to build an 80% receiver into a 100% one and no serial number is needed. This is the theory behind building an AK receiver from a flat, etc. However, you can never transfer the weapon. I would obviously keep all of my documentation if ever questioned, such as your purchase receipt for the 80% receiver. I believe, especially in regards to an AK build you would still have to worry about the US parts count but that wouldn't be a problem in an AR. Just don't use any full auto parts in it and you should be good to go. Would I send it to the range with someone else without my being there. Probobly no and am not aware of the ramifications of doing such. Better safe than sorry.

Brett
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 3:07:16 AM EDT
Put your own serial number on it for security and to id it in case of loss or theft. I built a semi-auto
1919a4 with an 80% sideplate and used my initials and the year and an 01. such as RLB-04001.
The first gun made in 2004.
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