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Posted: 10/13/2003 4:00:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 4:16:21 PM EDT
PRI big latch. Same one on the Gasbuster charging handle but sold seperately as just the latch. It works great and wont poke you or catch on anything. I find the Badger and other big latches to be able to be used with just a pull of my hand with the latch in the palm of my open hand but this tourqes the charging handle and casues binding and wear against the upper. I just use the big latch with a forefinger and thumb grab and pull straight back. Less tourque, no excessive friction to overcome and lower profile. Id be willing to bet over half the people here who have tried various latches would agree. My .02 YMMV
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 4:30:07 PM EDT
Second for the PRI, Military style, big latch !!! no more bruised ribs from the Badger type. [BD]
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 4:37:33 PM EDT
I don't recommend them at all for the same reasons DevL mentioned. Why do you want one? southern [url]www.danieldefense.com[/url]
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 5:53:43 PM EDT
Personally I have and like the badger tac latch. The guys I train with all have them and we haven't had any problems yet. To answer your question, I believe DPMS makes the tac latch you are talking about.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 3:00:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2003 3:02:24 AM EDT by AK_Mike]
Originally Posted By DevL: PRI big latch. Same one on the Gasbuster charging handle but sold seperately as just the latch. It works great and wont poke you or catch on anything. I find the Badger and other big latches to be able to be used with just a pull of my hand with the latch in the palm of my open hand but this tourqes the charging handle and casues binding and wear against the upper. I just use the big latch with a forefinger and thumb grab and pull straight back. Less tourque, no excessive friction to overcome and lower profile. Id be willing to bet over half the people here who have tried various latches would agree. My .02 YMMV
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I'll double that .02, it just makes a lot of cents.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 10:49:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 10:55:57 AM EDT
I have the Badger latch on the AR10 and like it for the range shooting it does, not so sure I'd like to hump the 20" A4 with 5lbs of optics and rings around... I have just gotten the PRI Big Latch/charging handle (Military) and have to say it is an excellent $80 spent. Much smoother operation than the Badger, and doesn't contain sharp protrusions like the Badger. PRI Big Latch
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 11:05:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2003 11:07:39 AM EDT by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By DevL: PRI big latch.
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That's what I use too. It only cost about $20.00 and you install it on your existing CH in about 5mins.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 12:07:06 PM EDT
Sling that tac-latched rifle over you shoulder the wrong way just once, and you'll be ordering the PRI latch the very same day. Ouch! On a scoped bench gun, this is less of an issue. YMMV
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 2:55:10 PM EDT
Another vote for the PRI Big Latch... One of the best $20 I've spent on my gun. -Cap'n
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 3:01:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: The Badger latch has another serious problem: due to the leverage from the latch sticking out so far, it will start to wear away the locking notch on the upper receiver, and eventually, your charging handle won't stay locked (or in place) any more. When this happens, you have to replace the upper receiver. I also recommend the PRI Big Latch. -Troy
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Yup! I've said it before and i'll say it again.....Forget that Badger POS!
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 4:10:58 AM EDT
I recently took a course w/ the Badger Tac Latch. It cought on everything; sling, mag pouch, belt, you name it. My carbine now has a PRI latch.
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 5:47:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By southern: I don't recommend them at all for the same reasons DevL mentioned. Why do you want one? southern [url]www.danieldefense.com[/url]
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Not to answer for sully, but I find the tac latch to be a very useful device. I'm a lefty and I've got large glass on the two rifles I use them on. But they aren't for everyone. That being said, I started with a Badger and didn't have any problem with it. However, when I got a gas buster, I realized how superior it was to the Badger. Plus I noticed the increase wear on my upper, so I ditched the badger and got another PRI big latch. Definitely get the PRI big latch if you want and oversized latch.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 12:36:53 AM EDT
Wow, pretty definitive! The people have spoken. [bow]
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 4:09:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2003 4:09:41 AM EDT by mn_308]
The one I saw was similar in shape and size to the Badger, but did not have a large hole milled out, instead had been drilled out with lots of small holes. It looked more solid.
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Was it this latch, from [url=http://www.sogarmory.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=101453]Sog Armory[/url]? If so, I agree it does look, and feel, more solid. After using the offerings from Badger, Sog, and PRI, I prefer the PRI. mn_308
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 6:32:05 AM EDT
I looked at the PRI 'big' latch and choose the 'flat' latch it works just dandy I switched over from a Badger which was gouging me all up and was wearing out the seat where the latch locks , DPMS has a larger latch it appears than even larger than the 'big' latch but catalogs and websites are deceiving since the only way to tell is to take the plunge or see one in action and I've only seen in action accessories I've spent money on .
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 6:47:22 AM EDT
I use the PRI on my .50 Beowulf with no problems at all.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 2:04:41 PM EDT
PRI...
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 2:18:57 PM EDT
check the equipment exchange. there is a PRI big latch for $10 for sale there.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 7:30:13 AM EDT
Just to jump on the dogpile - PRI
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 11:42:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 3:53:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2003 4:16:50 PM EDT by AKM]
I don't recommend them at all for the same reasons DevL mentioned. Why do you want one? southern
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I agree. I can see their use in 3 gun and gaming matches but not for self defense or military purposes? I guess when the name was changed from "oversize latch" to "tactical latch" it became a must have item.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 5:55:05 PM EDT
The one that came with my carbine seems fine to me. Joe
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 6:16:07 PM EDT
I use it to clear malfunctions while keeping the rifle in my shoulder, I use a badger latch on my LE gun and havent had any problems with it and it has been through a bunch of training and real life deployments, I just ordered a PRI to see what the fuss is about
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 7:02:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IronBalaclava:
Originally Posted By Troy: The Badger latch has another serious problem: due to the leverage from the latch sticking out so far, it will start to wear away the locking notch on the upper receiver, and eventually, your charging handle won't stay locked (or in place) any more. When this happens, you have to replace the upper receiver. I also recommend the PRI Big Latch. -Troy
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Yup! I've said it before and i'll say it again.....Forget that Badger POS!
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What he said - Forget the Badger! It's better to go buy some beer with the $$ you save.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 8:50:29 AM EDT
PRI super-sized w/ a coke!
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 8:51:11 AM EDT
PRI super-sized w/ a coke!
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 9:32:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: The Badger latch has another serious problem: due to the leverage from the latch sticking out so far, it will start to wear away the locking notch on the upper receiver, and eventually, your charging handle won't stay locked (or in place) any more. When this happens, you have to replace the upper receiver.
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I'm gonna disagree with this. Sure there's extra leverage, but if anything, I think that extra leverage will make it where the latch [i]doesn't[/i] drag across the locking notch, since the extra leverage helps make sure the latch has cleared the notch. If you want to say that the notch will wear because the latch is sticking out and getting caught on things, thus causing it to rub the notch, I might agree with that. But I don't agree with the "increased leverage" thing.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 9:43:53 AM EDT
Brou, I gotta go with Troy on this - every rifle I have seen with a damaged cockign handle has had an extended 'tac' latch and a right handed shooter has ended up 'torquing' it with his left hand - The PRI Gasbuster is beefier - but a buddy of mine bent one of them too. Coldblue quote
Tactical Charging Handle puts all the stress on one side of the forward projection, causes severe and accelerated wear, 'twists' an already pretty thin component that was designed light weight because it was supposed to be pulled to the rear "symmetrically."
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Link Posted: 10/18/2003 10:25:35 AM EDT
Kevin, Troy is saying that the latch will damage the NOTCH. Not the charging handle. I'll agree that if you yank it too hard, you can put added stress on the charging handle like you said, and possibly bend it. But I disagree about the notch wearing prematurely.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 11:42:07 AM EDT
I have heard two stories. One is the torque will wear the inside of the upper on one side where the charging handle rubs. Brouhaha has a Badger and I can feel that happening. I can even feel the torque on the factory handle that might ben it too. I still need an explanation on the notch wear like Brouhaha. I am not seeing how it will occur. On a final note I can manipulate a Badger handle faster than a PRI and if I was a pure 3 gun guy I can see why someone might use it.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 11:44:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 11:49:47 AM EDT
Understood, thanks.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 12:23:46 PM EDT
I still don't agree, Troy. The extra leverage will make the latch clear the notch more easily, resulting in less wear. Again, it's not a leverage issue like you claim. If you were to say that it's due to the latch sticking out and getting caught on objects, which make it open and close more often, I might agree. But that has nothing to do with leverage issue. Only it's conspicuousness. And no, I'm not trying to defend mine, as I plan on replacing the ones I've got on non-scoped rifles (read "Tactical").
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 1:20:06 PM EDT
Brou - my error... I see what Troy is saying, and understad the theory - but have no experience with long term use of a Tac Latch - The first two days after it got caught on my LBV and dug into my body while slung was enough
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 2:02:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: I still don't agree, Troy. The extra leverage will make the latch clear the notch more easily, resulting in less wear..
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Only if the user is carefull to fully disengage the latch before pulling the charging handle rearwards. Most people just grab the CH and yank it back. The problem is the handle comes back as soon as the latch slips off the notch, it never really "clears" the notch.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 2:08:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2003 2:09:31 PM EDT by brouhaha]
I still don't agree. I don't know how many times I've worked my charging handle... I'll have the rifle in my lap while watching TV doing clearance drills, etcs. I've probably worked the thing upwards of 5k times since I've had it. Compared to my older rifles with the standard latch, there is no difference in wear. edit...it's not worth arguing over. We'll just agree to disagree [:)]
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 2:36:06 PM EDT
To me it's supply and demand. Just like I said to the people who like EOTechs over Aimpoints. Keep buying them so the price of what I want/like drop. [:D]
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 4:38:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: The notch of the upper wears because the latch sticks out so far and rubs/bounces/collides with stuff all the time, and (due to the leverage) transfers a lot of force to the little aluminum notch that the catch catches on. After not too long, it will eat through the notch, and your upper receiver will be toast. -Troy
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Yes. the Badger would get caught on EVERYTHING and would open and close snapping on the retaining wall of the notch of one of my M4's. It would wear down the wall, effectively sloping it and exposing bare aluminum and leaving bits of sheared off aluminum resting in the cavity of the notch. I got rid of that POS qucikly and have had no problems since. The thing WILL eventually wear down the notch to the point that the charging handle latch will NOT lock place anymore due to the worn away retaining wall of the notch and you will have a useless upper. A member on this board had a $1,500 Knight's M4 who's upper was destroyed due to that garbage piece of #$%^$#@$.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 8:23:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2003 8:24:55 PM EDT by HKocher]
I guess this is one of those YMMV situations... Perhaps I was somehow misusing my Badger, but I noticed much more wear on the 'notch' of the upper receiver compared to my uppers without the Badger. Again, perhaps this is user inflicted. But the problem mysteriously went away when I ditched the Badger for the PRI.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:08:04 PM EDT
Can you manipulate the PRI with the knife edge of your weak hand like the tac-latch? I like the speed of the tac-latch when using this method, but I dont want to trash my upper. Thanks
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:25:12 PM EDT
One more ?. Brownells has a "Mounting Solutions Plus" gas buster Military latch. Is that like the PRI? http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=8734&title=AR-15+GAS+BUSTER+CHARGING+HANDLE
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 6:30:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 6:31:38 PM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 9:48:28 AM EDT
Looks like I'm screwed... My Bushy Carbine has about 1/2 of the retaining wall left....And I just added the badger Ord tac latch the other day. When I installed the badger Ord latch is when I noticed the wear, which I do consider excessive but not exactly unexpected. Now you guys are talking that the BO latch will only aggrevate this situation worse. I figured the wear was due to my being left handed and ALWAYS racking the CH latch with only my LH trigger finger.(ie, I don't use two fingers on both sides of the CH) So I guess this wear is something to carefully take into consideration. As far as the BO latch goes. I'm going to keep it for now but as soon as any of my 3-gun buddies offers to get one, I'm selling. Concerning my Upper, it's close to toast as is... Sly
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 11:09:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 11:14:11 AM EDT by KevinB]
I have a Colt M4 upper than has about 1/3-1/4 left on the upper 'lip'. I figure I will use it until it goes fully tits up and then toss it. Edited to add - It was used with the stock charging handle for several years - and lots of drills.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 11:52:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 11:53:06 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
Originally Posted By KevinB: I have a Colt M4 upper than has about 1/3-1/4 left on the upper 'lip'. I figure I will use it until it goes fully tits up and then toss it.
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There's a built in indicator of that precise moment - the charging handle will fly back and ring your bell! [;D]
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