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Posted: 4/17/2010 4:20:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2010 4:26:18 PM EDT by rman43]
First let me say that this is not an attack on Tactical Solutions - I have 2 and I love them. Here is how it all started:
I bought a complete RRA lower with a 2-stage NM trigger (new style, unnotched hammer). I put a TacSol M4 upper on it and it was a single shot. The gun would fire the first round from the magazine, eject, feed the second round, but would not reset the hammer. I already had a DPMS .223 with a mil-spec trigger and the uppper worked great with that lower. I wanted the RRA lower to be a dedicated .22 LR lower and really liked the NM trigger. I called customer service at Tactical Solutions and they sent me a prepaid shipping label and asked me to return the whole gun to them. They tuned the upper with the lower and when they returned it to me it worked perfectly. That rifle shoots Federal Red and Blue bulk packs, Winchester 333s and Wildcats, CCI Mini Mags and standard velocity, Wolf and Eley Match and Federal Auto Match with absolute reliability.

My grandson liked shooting the M4 so much that I didn't get to shoot it much when we went to the range. His only complaint about the rifle was the weight. (He's a pretty small 11 year old.) SpecOps told me that Spike's Tactical had complete lowers on sale cheap so I ordered one. About the same time, several dealers were selling TacSol uppers cheap and the price included free shipping. I ordered an LT upper to make up a light carbine for my grandson to shoot. When all the parts arrived, I matched up the Spike's lower with the LT upper and it worked great right out of the box. The problem was, the Spike's trigger was a nastier than usual mil-spec and I wasn't able to get the kind of groups out of the rifle that I had hoped for.

I decided to try a Timney 3 lb solid trigger. I ordered one and when it came in, I found that it was extremely easy to install and had a great trigger pull. I was really excited about the whole thing until I took it to the range. I had light hammer strikes, doubling, OOBs, failures to feed, fire and eject. I tried it with the M4 upper with the same results. I tried it with my .223 upper and it worked great. I even tried the LT upper with the RRA lower that had been tuned for my M4 upper and it was a single shot, just like the M4 had been. I then tried the LT upper on my DPMS lower with a mil-spec trigger and it worked great. I still wanted to have a really good trigger on this rifle though.

I called Tactical Solutions again and asked them for some advice. Lon told me that some of their customers had reported having good luck with the Geissele SSA triggers, but he thought they were a pretty expensive solution. He told me if I bought another RRA NM trigger for the Spike's lower they would tune the tune the gun for me again like they did the M4. I found them on sale at a decent price and ordered one, but I also ordered a Geissele SSA just to hedge my bets. I installed the Geissele first and took the rifle to the range fully expecting it to work great. Unfortunately, that didn't work out so good either. Again I had some doubling, light strikes and failures to feed.

At that point I decided to remove the Geissele, install the new RRA NM and send it all off to Tacsol.. Just for kicks I ran by the range to try it out first. I first tried shooting Winchester 333s in it and had some failures to feed and fire. I broke out a box of Federal Auto Match and fired off 35 rounds without a hitch. Next up I tried some Federal Bulk in the blue box and it also worked great. I went on to shoot 100 rounds of Federal bulk in the red box and it functioned perfectly also.

Here is what I have learned so far. TacSol uppers seem to work great with mil-spec triggers and after all, that is what they were designed to work with. Custom triggers are a whole different story though. Just because someone else has tried a trigger and has had good luck with it, does not mean your results will be the same. I'm glad I went through all this though, because I learned a lot along the way. I still love my TS uppers and I'm glad I have 2 that function well and have triggers that I can actually shoot some decent groups with from the bench.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 2:49:23 AM EDT
Of course, part of the lesson is that many .22 semiautos need to break in.
Too, many are ammo sensitive, and you may need to try a variety of brands to get reliable function. MiniMags are often most reliable in many finicky guns.
Some of those finicky guns get less finicky when broken in.
Link Posted: 4/19/2010 4:12:54 AM EDT
Update - my grandson and I took the LT to the range Sunday. He shot 100 rounds of Federal bulk through it with no malfunctions. I decided to have him try some Winchester 333s again, just to make sure they would not work in that rifle. Lo and behold, he shot 50 rounds of it without a single malfunction. He was shooting them about as fast as he could pull the trigger and still get back on target. He had some really nice groups with the 333s and the Fed bulk. Now I need to try some other types of ammo in it for function. It looks like I finally have 2 AR 22s that function AND have a nice trigger!
Link Posted: 4/19/2010 4:47:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2010 4:47:26 AM EDT by SpecOps-13]
It's too bad you've had to go through so much to get to where you are. Most of my 22 set ups are
using mil spec triggers that I have taken the travel and creep out of. I have a Wilson Combat and a
Chip McCormick single stage pack that work with most of my uppers but the TS M4 doesn't like
them. I've tried the lighter spring kits with mil spec hammers and triggers and had no success on
any of my 22's, conversions or dedicated. Others tell me they have great luck. In general, 22's are
more difficult to set up and rman43 is right that things may not be the same from 1 to the next.

Spec
Link Posted: 4/19/2010 11:06:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SpecOps-13:
It's too bad you've had to go through so much to get to where you are.

Spec

It has been a hassle and expensive, but that's what I get for not listening to other people's advice. I probably could have got a Springfield trigger job and it would have been fine. I don't think I'm ready to try a DIY trigger job just yet. I struggled enough just putting in the first trigger/hammer set! I'm not going to come out too bad though. I was able to sell the Timney and I like the Geissle - it's a pretty nice setup. I'll put that one in my .223 and it will have a decent trigger also. I've had fun messing with it and can chalk it up as a learning experience. I am getting pretty good at swapping out trigger/hammer sets by now!

Tom->
Link Posted: 4/19/2010 11:33:28 PM EDT
Glad you figured it out, some times there's no rhyme or reason to what trigger or lower gives 22 conversions problems. (in one particular upper)

I started of with a RRA lower and old RRA NM notched hammer . The TS M4 ran perfect then after many rounds I noticed scratches on the back of the bolt from the notch so I put it on a different lower and used a GI trigger, then did a good trigger job and spring kit, all worked flawless, then I put in yet another trigger group and it still worked great but I missed the good NM trigger pull so this morning I tested the upper with a new style RRA NM rounded TG which BTW came in at lighter 3.2 LBS And it also went through plenty of 333 and fed bulk with zero issues and the groups where extremely good off hand. (a little better than usual.) So I'll think that one will stay.

It's sometimes tough to read about people having problems when I've had none but it's good to see them get solved so they enjoy the darn things.

Link Posted: 4/20/2010 6:57:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rocker:
Glad you figured it out, some times there's no rhyme or reason to what trigger or lower gives 22 conversions problems. (in one particular upper)

I started of with a RRA lower and old RRA NM notched hammer . The TS M4 ran perfect then after many rounds I noticed scratches on the back of the bolt from the notch so I put it on a different lower and used a GI trigger, then did a good trigger job and spring kit, all worked flawless, then I put in yet another trigger group and it still worked great but I missed the good NM trigger pull so this morning I tested the upper with a new style RRA NM rounded TG which BTW came in at lighter 3.2 LBS And it also went through plenty of 333 and fed bulk with zero issues and the groups where extremely good off hand. (a little better than usual.) So I'll think that one will stay.

It's sometimes tough to read about people having problems when I've had none but it's good to see them get solved so they enjoy the darn things.


I have to agree with you on the RRA NM triggers. For the money, I don't think they can beat. I still think it's weird that my LT upper won't run on the RRA lower with a NM trigger like my M4 does, but it runs great on a Spike's lower with an identical RRA NM trigger. Go figure! Anyway, you're right about getting the problem solved to enjoy the uppers. I had forgotten how much fun shooting .22s is and especially in an AR!

Tom->

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