I am in the process of purchasing a light for my M4 type carbine.  I like the 9P (and can afford it) and found one at a good price.  I was wondering if anyone here has used either this or a 6P as a weapons light?  Also, will the tape switches used for the 650/950 series lights will work for the 9P?

There are folks more in the know that me when it comes to Surefires, but I do not believe that the standard handheld flashlights are recommended as mounted weapon lights because they do not have the same shock mount. That being said, and knowing how tough Surefires are, a 6P or 9P would probably work.

Without going into a lot of detail, you shouldn't use a 6P or 9P as a weapons light. The light will get beat to @#$% from the recoil until it stops functioning (read that: parts will break and need to be replaced). There are reasons why the weapon lights are more expensive than the handhelds. If I someone doesn't go into more detail or if I have time later, I'll post a link to a thread that goes into more detail.

From the recoil of an AR? 12 gauge, maybe.
The surefire lights I've seen are tougher than that. I have had a G2 mounted on my carbine for 8 months/3500 rounds with no problems.

I know there's more than a few board members that have Surefire handhelds mounted as weaponlights, and not too many problems posted.  

I don't bother posting anymore about it myself.

One board member ([b]Cleophis[/b]) did post about his 6P failing.  He concluded that the recoil caused the batteries to beat up the rear of the lamp, causing it to fail.  If I remember right, the round count was around 1000.

The one feature that I read here that separates the weaponlights from the handhelds is that they have a built-in shoulder somewhere inside the body that keeps the batteries from beating up the rear of the lamp.  If someone can post pics, or post a response from Surefire about this, that would be great.

Myself, I only wanted to experiment with the idea of a weapon mounted light, and couldn't justify spending the $$$ for something I might not stay with.

So I went ahead and picked up two 6P's and swapped out the standard bezels with Z32 shock isolated bezels.  Then I mounted the 6P's in KAC 1" flashlight mounts.

I'm not going to say anything about the durability of the 6P's as weaponlights, since I haven't fired enough rounds through them to say I tortured tested them.  

My two mounted 6P's have fulfilled the intended purpose of familiarizing me with using a light on a weapon, and helped me decide that a light IS something that I want.  

In hindsight, I would've went with only one setup for this "test" phase, just to save that $130, which I could've applied toward the M900 that I just ordered.

I say "Do It", to at least experiment with the idea and see if it's an accessory that you really need.


Chris

Chris,

I have a couple of photos I will send you of the difference between a SureFire WeaponLight and flashlight with regards to the WeaponLight retaining the batteries in the body.

Al

[email protected]

Al .... If you could post them here, I think that will help explain the difference in cost between the handhelds and weaponlights.

Me personally, I'm convinced, and have an M900 on the way!  [:D]


Chris

I don't have the ability to post photos online at the moment sorry.

Al

Here's a [url=www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=146627&w=searchPop]link[/url] to Cleophis' thread.

triburst1, I cannot speak for the durability of a G2 light when mounted on an AR-15 but, based upon another board member's experience, I can pass along information on the 6P/9P being used as a weapon light.

Please note that I specifically answered the poster's question. He asked if anyone here had tried using a 6P/9P as a weapons light. I wouldn't recommend that anyone use a 6P or 9P for a weapons light without informing them of the pitfalls of doing so. If someone just wants to play around with a light, then it would be fine for a while (approx. 1K rounds).

I have two 6p's on two different AR's.  One has a shock bezel on it.  Both lights have been mounted now for about 3 years.  I have put well over 1000 rounds in each rifle, including bump fire.  I have zero problems so far.  I was not aware of the problems that could occur with the batteries hitting the rear of the lamp when I mounted the lights.  So far, after 3 years, the only thing I've had to change were the batteries.  I'll keep them on until they break.  For me, at least, they keep on keepin' on.  

The guys who used to run the Surefire Institute training classes saw folks with non-weapon specific lights all the time. Not so coincidentally, they also saw failures with these lights all the time. The point is and always has been, its a light, on a gun. Lights are fragile, guns are powerful. Its not a good combo, but it is a necessary one. So... the idea is to reduce as much risk of failure as possible. Weapons mounted lights do that. Handheld lights do not. This is not to say you absolutely WILL have a problem, only that the cances of having a problem are greatly increased. Some folks like to reduce those chances as much as possible. And who can blame them?

I believe it's established that the "correct" light on your weapon is a dedicated weaponlight, and NOT a handheld adapted to that purpose, ESPECIALLY if you might need that AR in an armed encounter.

Here's the problems I had initially concerning mounted lights:

1) I didn't fully understand the purpose of a weapon-mounted light;

2) I didn't understand how exactly to use one;

3) I wasn't sure if the benefits for me would justify the cost.

So at that stage, you can probably see why I wasn't going to put out $175 AND UP on a light, until I figured WHAT THE [B]HECK[/B] was going on!  

I don't apologize for using mounted 6P's to learn more about the concept.  If I didn't like the idea, I'd be out a sum of money that I could live with.

If I'd initially forked out the $$$ for a weaponlight and DIDN'T like the concept, I'd be UP[b]TIGHT[/B] to say the least!

[b]Sometimes[/b] you got to start out [i]small[/i] (6P/G2/9P), before you go BIG (M95/96xx, M900), which is why I support the AR owner that wants a light on his AR, but only wants to go handheld instead of dedicated.

[i]As long as the limitations[/i] are understood, all is GOOD in my eyes.

BTW .... it takes time to save those $$$ when you're a GI with [b][u]3[/b][/u] kids and a HIGH maintenance wife!  [BD]


Chris

"start out small"

Best advice you could give to anyone, on any topic.  Good job, mrcr0603.

Thanks mrcr0603.  I totally agree.  It does take time to save the bucks, especially when I have other things I want to buy, like an Aimpoint or RAS II.  I can afford the 9p right now and save for the weapons light later.  BTW, thanks for your service to our country.  I served for over 10yrs and know what you are going through.  I had (have) a wife and two kids also while deployed constantly to some small backwater hole in the dirt for the Navy.  Would do it all over again though.  Know enough about the workings of standard issue M16A1's and 2s, but never got to play with the really cool toys like the SEALs.  Anyway, thanks for the advice.

Thanks for [b]your[/b] service, and I truly appreciate your kind words.


Chris

Thanks!  [;)].... Chris

I too am working up a setup for my 6Z surefire on my AR.  I happen to be friends with a SOF weapons instructor at Bragg.  I posed the question about how well the first generation Surefires hold up as weapons lights.

Here's his reply.


[red][/quote]"If you take care of your kit it will last. I know of about 100 first gen surefire 6p's working on M4's that still work fine. Nothing lasts forever. Everything has a life cycle to it." [/red][/quote]

Excellent reasoning by mrcr0603 and a good / relatively inexpensive way to try out the concept of a weapon-mounted light. While Surefire builds great gear, they pretty much have a monopoly and can charge what they want for their products. No problem, they took the risks, did the work and should be able to earn the rewards...and the rest of us are free to build and market competing gear if we can. Until someone does, we are stuck with high prices and at the mercy of their marketers.

For me, I will always pay what it takes to have the best quality gear when my ass is on the line. The hand held lights will work, and are cretainly better than no light at all, but if one fails, guess when it will fail? You remember Mr. Murphy, right? Use the 9P until you can afford a light designed for mounting on a weapon, then get one and return the 9P to hand held duty, but DO get a light on the gun if at all possible.