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Posted: 11/3/2009 5:35:53 PM EST
Sorry this topic has probably been done to death, but I am getting information overload. I gone the full circle several times looking at the pros and cons of AKs; Mini 14, SU16, etc. After reading many post, etc. I feel that the AR platform is what I should consider. Now I am trying to get a handle on Direct Gas vs Gas Piston. What would really help me out would be suggestions for what I may considering buying. I don't want to break the bank, but I don't want to second guess my choice. Budget not to exceed $1000.00.

Thanks in advance.

The forum members have a lot of usefull straight forward information you rarely see in other forums.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:38:36 PM EST
For the price range, look for a Smith and Wesson if that is the budget for just the gun.


If the is your entire budget for AR stuff, get a CMMG bargin bin rifle and lots of ammo.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:48:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 5:49:03 PM EST by Stevie32]
+1
Smith and Wesson M&P MOE carbine is what I would spend a 1,000 on.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:50:58 PM EST
S&W, Spikes or you might be able to squeeze together a BCM for that.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:08:06 PM EST
I highly recommend BCM products and they are having a killer sale right now. Really check this sell out. Spikes, another great company that will make sure you are satisfied. Lastly, Daniel Defense they are also top notch.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:14:08 PM EST
Direct impingement. The fancy piston systems fix problems that don't exist, and create a new cleaning opportunity, with more moving parts, and more shaking and baking.

Building your own helps you learn how everything works. Best solution is to build your own lower, with a standard A2 stock, and buy an upper assembly. The advice given to me was a 20" gov't profile. Best place to start. You can get lower receivers very inexpensively, and they're hard to screw up. Buy a stock and buffer and an RRA or DPMS lower parts kit, follow the instructions on this site to put them together.

A standard A2 upper lets you learn how to adjust sights, or you can buy a flat top and a very inexpensive red dot sight.

You should be able to get by for seven or eight hundred and save for ammo and magazines.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:15:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 6:17:38 PM EST by Starquester]
BCM midlength upper.

16" midlength, BCM BCG, forged charging handle, midlength handguards, $604.00 shipped.


Lowers run $360 shipped direct from BCM.

Add in FFL transfer fees for the lower, and a rear flip or solid sight, and you're right around $1K. Or build your own lower for $230-260 or so and save a bit. Just get a good LPK.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:43:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bowmaker99:
Sorry this topic has probably been done to death, but I am getting information overload. I gone the full circle several times looking at the pros and cons of AKs; Mini 14, SU16, etc. After reading many post, etc. I feel that the AR platform is what I should consider. Now I am trying to get a handle on Direct Gas vs Gas Piston. What would really help me out would be suggestions for what I may considering buying. I don't want to break the bank, but I don't want to second guess my choice. Budget not to exceed $1000.00.

Thanks in advance.

The forum members have a lot of usefull straight forward information you rarely see in other forums.


Call RB Precision out of IL or Pete at Legal Transfers and buy a Rock River with an A4 upper. They'll have the best price. Lots of people frown down on RRA on this site but they make great rifles. I should know I own 4. The only internal upgrade I might recommend is a BCM BCG. Or you could just stake your RRA gas key a little better. Get an AR that's chrome lined too. You'll get more life out of the barrel.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:45:25 PM EST
All great suggestions so far. In general, the piston systems will be more expensive. As far as I know, the AR's suggested above will be more accurate than Mini-14s; someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I'd get a flat top- you can always add a non-flip up rear sight for not much $$, or a detachable carry handle, if you really want to just shoot iron sights. The BCM mid-length upper is great. Spikes has great prices on lower receivers- lots of fun to put a lower together, and you'll learn a lot. Surplus Ammo also has a good special on Aero Precision lower receivers, which are also great.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 7:16:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 7:20:31 PM EST
MP or Bushmaster is my vote
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 7:45:18 PM EST
Colt, LMT, BCM.......
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 9:22:45 PM EST
I'm new to the AR too, and my 1st was the Colt 6920. It is just a little more then what you're looking at, but you can find them like new in the EE for around your price point. I think building your own cost alot if you factor in all the tools you will need for the AR platform.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 10:34:10 PM EST
I'll throw my experience out there. I built (well, assembled) my first AR. I was on a tighter budget than you and so I bought one piece at a time, shopping for bargains, but I ended up with an all DPMS rifle and despite acquiring several other rifles since then that cost much more, it is the most accurate rifle I own. Here's what it cost me:
DPMS Lower Receiver: $125
DPMS Lower Parts Set: 55
DPMS Buttstock with buffer 50
DPMS complete 20" flattop upper: $400
Initial build total: $630
Added since then:
DPMS Free Float Tube $45
Hogue grip: $15
Nikon Mildot 6-18x: $300
Burris XTR rings: $45
Total: $1035
The prices on these have gone up some, but I think most are still right about the same or similar. I think that upper might be $25 more now, and the buttstock might be $20 more or so, but you get the idea. I don't know whether this is the type of rifle you want to build, but build a carbine without a few of the options and a little cheaper on optics and this comes in right about at your budget including the optics.
Oh and it has NEVER had a failure on me for any reason and these targets are what it shoots with 69gr Sierra handloads. And thanks to the directions on here, assembly was easy even though I had never even shot an AR before, let alone worked on one. I couldn't be happier with it.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll276/ryanb56/DSC00938.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll276/ryanb56/DSC00939.jpg
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:05:20 AM EST
Stick with a DI for first AR. With your budget I would look at BM, DD, BCM or Colt 6920. My preference would be one of the last 3 since they are top quality rifles and you will not have problems with them down the road. You didn't mention what you wanted to use it for. If just for shooting paper once in a while, there are plenty of other brands that are cheaper that will serve you just fine.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 9:06:01 AM EST
Daniel Defense DDXV. I picked mine up from Galleryofguns.com for 949$. Now I'm waiting for my 250$ rebate to return so I can get my DD Omega Rail.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 9:30:25 AM EST
In the last couple months I have seen Colt 6920s, Daniel Defense, Spikes, and BCM (will have to buy upper and lower separately) for just under $1000. All are great options but the Colt is probably

the best value right now.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 10:29:26 AM EST
I was asking the same question about the gas system vs. piston about 8 months ago and received the same replies you are getting. I decided to start building my DI rifle when the prices of the Colt 6920's bottomed out. I ended up picking one of them up a couple months ago. The reason I decided to go with the Colt, besides the advice of the Koolaide drinkers out there, was that the Colt 6920 was built in almost exactly the same specifications that the military's M4 was and the resale on a Colt will always be higher than most anything else out there (that's not to say that others don't build an equivilant or better rifle, but everyone know's who Colt is. How many outside of the AR enthusiasts know of BCM, LMT or Daniel Defense?)

The question for you is, what are you buying a rifle for? If you don't plan on joining the Michigan Militia or expect the end of the world next year, you may find that Rock River, CMMG or S&W, to name a few, build incredible rifles for the money.

I would consider the following when buying a new AR:

- Chrome barrel for longevity or Chrome Molly for accuracy (some folks like Chrome just like Uncle Sam does)
- 1 in 7 twist to allow the use of heavier bullets or 1 in 9 for 62 grains or less (which is most of what is sold out there)
- Do you want to pimp out your gun with lights, lasers and red dot sights (if so, try to find a rail in place of the handguard. If you want a red dot sight, then you will want a flat top receiver)
- What length barrel? (if you want a shorter barrel, then the gun will be put under more stress and you may need a beefier bolt carrier group and m4 feed ramps)

Like I said, what you want to use the gun for will determine what you want to buy and how much you may need to spend to get a durable rifle.

Jeff
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:40:15 AM EST
my opinion on the issue is AR=DI if you want a piston get an ak. They are accurate reliable and can be furnished with ergos similar to an ar... i actually like the feel of an ak just as much as an ar... shoot both before you decide... or just buy both when u get the coin.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:42:41 AM EST
Budget: CMMG bargain bin
DoubleStar makes a solid entry hobby rifle
"rolling your own" allows for higher end parts for your money, not necessarily a cheaper rifle

The 6920s seem to be a fabulous feal if you want a rifle at the top end of your price range. Hold out, and you'll get a bargain no matter what you do
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:37:09 PM EST
Spike's Tactical all the way. Great group of guys that will take care of you.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:20:14 PM EST
Thanks for the information. My orginal intentions was to get a semi-auto rifle for deer hunting, something to plink around with and to have on hand if all hell breaks lose. I like to hunt and want to use some different weapons to keep sharp. I will not even consider it for home defense and will not use it for deer hunting since I now have a bolt action rifle. I have a Ruger 10-22 that will last me till I take the internal dirt nap. Wtih the political climent you never know how things may end up and I hate some uninformed kuncklehead in Washington making decisions on what I can own for home defense, hunting, etc.

Good grouping Ryanb56.

And no I don't plan on joining a militia.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:50:58 PM EST
It's highly unlikely (if not impossible) to find a piston driven gun for $1000. So DI is probably your only choice. That said, lots of great choices available. If you can find a RRA Entry Tactical you can't go wrong, based on personal experience. But plenty of other great suggestions in this thread.
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