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Posted: 8/18/2017 6:19:08 PM EST
[#1]
I have AR15's in 5.56 in most lengths from 11.5 to 24. I like my 11.5 pistol, but it pales in enjoyment and use to my 9.5 300BO pistol. Now, mine is used mainly in suppressed mode, but you can just as easily shoot supers in the 100-130g range. Nothing wrong with 5.56 pistols, but IMO you really gain a more useful firearm in pistol length with the 300BO, especially if you have other 5.56 AR's. If you're going to get a suppressor down the road, it makes a 300BO an even better option.
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Posted: 8/18/2017 7:29:47 PM EST
[#2]
Subs will work fine for HD.I put one together for my brother two weeks ago and so far it has been perfect through right at 400 rounds.
100 of them were subs.This is his.  Attached FileI've shot .223 in 7.5 and 10.5 barrel lengths and to me even the non-sub don't have the concussion of the .223. I'm just waiting for my upper to get here to finish my .300.Hopfully tomorrow or Monday. Here's my lower.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 8:21:42 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subs will work fine for HD.I put one together for my brother two weeks ago and so far it has been perfect through right at 400 rounds. 100 of them were subs.This is his. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283933.JPG I've shot .223 in 7.5 and 10.5 barrel lengths and to me even the non-sub don't have the concussion of the .223. I'm just waiting for my upper to get here to finish my .300.Hopfully tomorrow or Monday. Here's my lower. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283934.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283936.JPG |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 8:39:36 PM EST
[#4]
The powder is burned up in the shorter barrels, another of the benefits of the .300 Blackout
Short barrel, suppressed is where the Blackout shines, but, it still have some usefulness even unsuppressed. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 9:24:46 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the weight of the maxim brace system? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Subs will work fine for HD.I put one together for my brother two weeks ago and so far it has been perfect through right at 400 rounds. 100 of them were subs.This is his. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283933.JPG I've shot .223 in 7.5 and 10.5 barrel lengths and to me even the non-sub don't have the concussion of the .223. I'm just waiting for my upper to get here to finish my .300.Hopfully tomorrow or Monday. Here's my lower. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283934.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283936.JPG I haven't weighed it personally. Eta: from what I've been able to find on a couple other sites it weighs the same at 18.14.ozs. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 9:43:33 PM EST
[#6]
Quoted:
Hi All, I'm really pulling my hair out deciding on a pistol upper. In every sense for me, 300BO is the right choice (Home/work/car defense). But, my budget is shit. I'm already heavily invested in 223 ammo and only have one 223 AR as is. I wanted a second 223 to keep shit simple and budget friendly. But less that 12" or so, 223 kinda loses all that advantage. And since I have a 14.5" already... why add another similar length gun. So, since I really think an 8.5" or 9" 300BO would be the best for defense. I am tempted to go that route. Also, I want a can to match either. That is waaay down the road due to budget. So, I guess I'm asking... Does it make sense to build the 300BO for HD and buy a mag or two worth of ammo for now? The subsonic part.... Since I won't have a suppressor for some time .. if ever, what is subsonic like for HD without suppression? Thanks for the insight, regards Should have put this in my first post but if you want a nice 300BO this one is 219.00 and to add the BCG and charging handle is 99.00 more. This is the place my brother and me got ours from. Ghost Firearms |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 5:49:18 AM EST
[#7]
I'm a noob in the field of AR pistols, though I have a couple...
what is the advantage of a .300BO subsonic?... what advantage does a 140grain .308" projectile at 1050fps have over a 147 .355" projectile at 1050fps? |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 7:46:41 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a noob in the field of AR pistols, though I have a couple... what is the advantage of a .300BO subsonic?... what advantage does a 140grain .308" projectile at 1050fps have over a 147 .355" projectile at 1050fps? |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 8:16:56 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a noob in the field of AR pistols, though I have a couple... what is the advantage of a .300BO subsonic?... what advantage does a 140grain .308" projectile at 1050fps have over a 147 .355" projectile at 1050fps? |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 8:46:22 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
300bo sub would be 200-220 grain but you have a valid point. 9mm ammo is a lot cheaper. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 9:28:18 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any 762x39 in sub? It Ain't cheap either. 
7.62x39 subs For some reason it won't load to the page directly you have to scroll down to the bottom. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 10:53:58 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
300bo sub would be 200-220 grain but you have a valid point. 9mm ammo is a lot cheaper. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 9:52:47 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm getting a little outside my knowledge envelope here, but I think the advantage of subsonic 300BO recommended in the 200-220g is range and energy over a subsonic 9mm. Isn't that the case? Bullet drop and energy delivered along the bullet flight path is greater with a 200-220g bullet over a subsonic 147g 9mm if I understand correctly. Anyone clarify this? As for better ballistics, not really. Even something like the subsonic 208gr AMAX load from Hornady (the 208gr AMAX projectile has a decently high BC) has a stupid amount of drop outside of 150ish yards when zeroed at 100. Running the numbers through Strelok, comparing the 208gr AMAX loading to the 147gr XTP and 230gr XTP, all at 1050fps and zeroed at 100, they're all within an inch of one another out to 150y and within a few inches at 200y. Honestly (and this is my opinion, so it's worth what you paid for it), subsonic .300BLK does nothing better (at least ballistically speaking) than a subsonic PCC. Now, where the Blackout does rein king is in the ability to switch to supers, which are going to be ballistically superior to pretty much any pistol cartridge. As to OPs question, my recommendation would be to spring for a 10.5" 5.56/.223 upper and splurge on some quality factory expanding ammunition (like Fusion, Gold Dot, etc.). Even with the slower velocities 5.56 reaches out of a 10.5" barrel, you'll still have a couple hundred yards inside the expansion envelope of most quality defensive loadings. You also have a bunch of .223 stockpiled already, so that lowers your ammunition costs for practice (arguable the most important part of employing any firearm in an offensive/defensive capacity), and to top it off, quality 5.56/.223 defensive loadings are significantly cheaper than their .300BLK counterparts. If budget is as large of a concern as it seems to be in your case, OP, I think 5.56/.223 is easily the smarter choice, even if you have to deal with a 1"-2" longer barrel. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 12:18:47 AM EST
[#14]
RJeff21, but isn't bullet drop within that 100 yards markedly worse for 9mm subsonic? In my reloaded 300BO with those 208g ELD-M's subsonic with the suppressor, I can confirm that 3-3.5" drop at 100 yards that most ballistic charts show. It goes to heck fast after that. I don't personally load 9mm in supers or subs, but most of the charts I see seem to show 10" and more drop at 100 yards. .45 ACP seems to be the same or worse. One thing I'll guarantee with 300BO subsonic through a good barrel around 9" in length...within the 100 yard envelope, it's a very accurate setup. I have a pair of 16" 9mm carbines, and they will shoot decently to 100 yards, but that's a rifle barrel with 115g and 124g +P level ammo.
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Posted: 8/20/2017 12:50:22 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RJeff21, but isn't bullet drop within that 100 yards markedly worse for 9mm subsonic? In my reloaded 300BO with those 208g ELD-M's subsonic with the suppressor, I can confirm that 3-3.5" drop at 100 yards that most ballistic charts show. It goes to heck fast after that. I don't personally load 9mm in supers or subs, but most of the charts I see seem to show 10" and more drop at 100 yards. .45 ACP seems to be the same or worse. One thing I'll guarantee with 300BO subsonic through a good barrel around 9" in length...within the 100 yard envelope, it's a very accurate setup. I have a pair of 16" 9mm carbines, and they will shoot decently to 100 yards, but that's a rifle barrel with 115g and 124g +P level ammo. ETA: And to be honest, I'm not even sure 100y would be a good zero distance for a subsonic pistol cartridge. Never really looked at it or thought about it. I'd imagine your hold under (with either setup, honestly) between 25-75 would be pretty large. Here's a comparison. I've now changed the zero distance to 50yd if you want to talk about a "100y and in" rifle. 147gr XTP @ 1050fps:  Attached File208gr AMAX @ 1050fps:  Attached FileThings start getting more lopsided towards the AMAX once you get past 150y, but then again, who's trying to use subsonic anything past 150y in any type of serious situation in the first place? ETA2: Just for shits and giggles, here's a drop chart for a 230gr Gold Dot @ 1050fps. Still, roughly within an inch of the AMAX at 100y.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 1:22:55 AM EST
[#16]
I'm guessing the much higher ballistic coefficient of the 300 plays into this.
BC and hold over aside, I do know that the 194g ME subs recovered through water jugs shot from my 8" 300 are nearly double the size of my recovered 9mm HST's shot with my G19. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 1:40:52 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm guessing the much higher ballistic coefficient of the 300 plays into this. BC and hold over aside, I do know that the 194g ME subs recovered through water jugs shot from my 8" 300 are nearly double the size of my recovered 9mm HST's shot with my G19. My point is, when it comes to doing this on a budget, choosing the platform that will give you the most quality options at the lowest price point is going to be the smart move. OP is talking about building this thing to use in a defensive capacity and then only purchasing a few mags worth of ammo for it. No offense intended, but that's fucking retarded. When you can only afford to buy a few boxes (if that, since the LD stuff is $2/round) of quality defensive ammo, it's probably best to pick something with less expensive ammo costs (especially when you should be practicing with the thing you may depend on in a serious situation). If you're wanting subsonic, 9mm or .45 is going to be a lot more budget friendly (both for practice as well as defensive loads) and is going to give you performance that is very similar. Expansion tests I'm seeing for modern quality 9mm and .45 JHP loadings show an average expansion diameter of .6"-.75" and .8"-1.0" respectively. Lehigh Defense claims an average of 1.2" expansion diameter for the 194gr ME. All more than adequate for defensive purposes. With that said, I say all this as a guy who just built an 8.3" .300BLK rifle and has no plans for a PCC anywhere in the future. Maybe I'm just crazy (although I do plan to use supers for anything that requires killing stuff). 
I still say in OPs case he's better off with a shorty 5.56/.223 upper. He says he already has ammo, so you don't have to factor in that cost (unless he wants to pick up some quality defensive loads). If he's worried about concussion, use a linear brake to redirect some of the sound forward. My hearing is the last thing I'd be worried about in a life or death situation anyway. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 2:14:16 AM EST
[#18]
Subsonic 300BLK is about as good as a 9mm or 45acp. Not nearly as good as the supersonic 300BLK or 5.56mm. Pistol rounds vs. Rifle rounds basically. If it's not going to be suppressed, then I'd much rather go supersonic rifle rounds. Honestly while subsonic suppressed is impressively quiet, I still much prefer supersonic rifle rounds suppressed for home defense. It's just much more lethal, and it's not like you're on a super stealth mission or anything, haha
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Posted: 8/20/2017 8:13:36 AM EST
[#19]
Thanks for the replies. It seems the more I learn the more indecisive I am on coming to a conclusion.
I was really buying into the 300BO hype, but it seems a lot of what I'm reading states it really isn't that superior. I keep my G-19 and/ or 870 by my bed. The longest HD shot I would ever have to take would be well within 10 yards. I guess all the AR>12g threads got me thinking. At the end of the day, I have two arguments for a pistol build. One, is that, if built first, I can switch back and forth with no legal concerns. This can be satisfied if I just go ahead and purchase a brace, use it, then whatever. Two, I was thinking a car gun. Something that could reach out 100 yards max if needed. I can legally carry a pistol, but not keep a long gun ready in a vehicle. Thanks again |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 3:45:41 PM EST
[#20]
slightly more expensive option followed by a friend and myself is to build a 5.56 10.3" pistol (I have a 7.5" upper also), and add a LAW folding stock adapter to the pistol...the adapter adds approximately 1", so a carbine length pistol tube without any blade or brace works well for me.. there is no release button needed to make the pistol operational
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Posted: 8/20/2017 4:28:45 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the replies. It seems the more I learn the more indecisive I am on coming to a conclusion. I was really buying into the 300BO hype, but it seems a lot of what I'm reading states it really isn't that superior. I keep my G-19 and/ or 870 by my bed. The longest HD shot I would ever have to take would be well within 10 yards. I guess all the AR>12g threads got me thinking. At the end of the day, I have two arguments for a pistol build. One, is that, if built first, I can switch back and forth with no legal concerns. This can be satisfied if I just go ahead and purchase a brace, use it, then whatever. Two, I was thinking a car gun. Something that could reach out 100 yards max if needed. I can legally carry a pistol, but not keep a long gun ready in a vehicle. Thanks again |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 4:46:06 PM EST
[#22]
My new house gun is a PSA 300 BLK pistol. The subsonic ammo is much quieter and less recoil than the supersonic rounds. With my red dot sight I feel I have a better weapon than a handgun. I can easily put a mag of supers in the pistol in an instant if need be. The PSA pistol was $499 shipped and has been perfect so far.
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Posted: 8/20/2017 5:07:34 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My new house gun is a PSA 300 BLK pistol. The subsonic ammo is much quieter and less recoil than the supersonic rounds. With my red dot sight I feel I have a better weapon than a handgun. I can easily put a mag of supers in the pistol in an instant if need be. The PSA pistol was $499 shipped and has been perfect so far. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 5:14:53 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the replies. It seems the more I learn the more indecisive I am on coming to a conclusion. I was really buying into the 300BO hype, but it seems a lot of what I'm reading states it really isn't that superior. I keep my G-19 and/ or 870 by my bed. The longest HD shot I would ever have to take would be well within 10 yards. I guess all the AR>12g threads got me thinking. At the end of the day, I have two arguments for a pistol build. One, is that, if built first, I can switch back and forth with no legal concerns. This can be satisfied if I just go ahead and purchase a brace, use it, then whatever. Two, I was thinking a car gun. Something that could reach out 100 yards max if needed. I can legally carry a pistol, but not keep a long gun ready in a vehicle. Thanks again Once you bring supers back to the table, the AR>shotgun comes back into play. With 110gr Barnes you've got 30+1 rounds that offer better ballistics out of an 8" barrel than 223 will ever give you from such a short barrel, with all of the benefits of a short, quick rifle. The other great thing about this is that if you wanted to use subs for some reason (there is literally no reason unless you're running a can), you can just shoot subs and switch back and forth with no modifications or adjustments. But yeah, you seem to have misunderstood the 300blk "hype" if you're only looking at subsonic ammo without a can for self defense. If you only ever wanted to use subsonic ammo, then a 9mm MPX or something makes a lot more sense, since you're getting similar capabilities for a lot less per round. But with an MPX, or any pistol caliber carbine, you DON'T have the option to switch mags and instantly have access to rifle-class ballistics. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 6:30:00 PM EST
[#25]
Good stuff. I too had the idea of getting a 300 Blackout pistol and running subs through it unsuppressed until I was able to get a silencer. I had no idea that balistically, this isn't really a good idea. I was basing everything off of the idea that shooting indoors would suck, but would suck less running 300 Blackout subs unsuppressed compared to a 5.56 unsuppressed. I mean, I think it would still suck less, but if the ballistics aren't there to back it up, what's the point?
So can someone explain a bit more - does running 300 Blackout subs through a suppressor increase the ballistics a bit, or is it still a better idea to just run supersonic ammo? |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 6:41:54 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good stuff. I too had the idea of getting a 300 Blackout pistol and running subs through it unsuppressed until I was able to get a silencer. I had no idea that balistically, this isn't really a good idea. I was basing everything off of the idea that shooting indoors would suck, but would suck less running 300 Blackout subs unsuppressed compared to a 5.56 unsuppressed. I mean, I think it would still suck less, but if the ballistics aren't there to back it up, what's the point? So can someone explain a bit more - does running 300 Blackout subs through a suppressor increase the ballistics a bit, or is it still a better idea to just run supersonic ammo? To be honest, the sound difference between a PCC and a rifle aren't all that big in practical application, especially when your life is on the line. .300BLK is a fine cartridge, but IMO, it's better to stick with supers for social purposes and it's more cost effective to choose a PCC if subs are a must for you. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 7:15:41 PM EST
[#27]
The first 6 rounds in my 8" HD magazine are 194g ME subs, and the rest are 115G CC supers. My spare magazine is loaded with all 110g Barnes tac-tx supers.
If the 1st 6 rounds of the subs aren't enough, then hearing damage is the least of my worries. 194G ME:  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 7:58:21 PM EST
[#28]
Is supersonic 300BO from an 8" barrel better than supersonic 223 from an 11.5" barrel? That is where I am right now.
If so, I am game for the 300. It will honestly be years before I can get a suppressor anyway. I have electronic ears I can keep by the bed anyway... |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 8:40:18 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is supersonic 300BO from an 8" barrel better than supersonic 223 from an 11.5" barrel? That is where I am right now. If so, I am game for the 300. It will honestly be years before I can get a suppressor anyway. I have electronic ears I can keep by the bed anyway... Now, you also have to factor in the ammo (both practice as well as "serious use") costing 2x-3x as much. With all that said, for someone on a budget who also has a decent stockpile of 5.56/.223 ammo, I think a 10.5" 5.56 upper is a much better idea. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 8:45:50 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The first 6 rounds in my 8" HD magazine are 194g ME subs, and the rest are 115G CC supers. My spare magazine is loaded with all 110g Barnes tac-tx supers. If the 1st 6 rounds of the subs aren't enough, then hearing damage is the least of my worries. 194G ME: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/442087/194g_Lehigh_Max_Expansion-285718.JPG The trajectories of a 110gr supersonic load and a 194gr subsonic load are worlds apart. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 10:15:27 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is supersonic 300BO from an 8" barrel better than supersonic 223 from an 11.5" barrel? That is where I am right now. If so, I am game for the 300. It will honestly be years before I can get a suppressor anyway. I have electronic ears I can keep by the bed anyway...  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 10:19:39 PM EST
[#32]
Quoted:
While that may work at HD distances, if shooting to 100+ yards is a foreseeable situation for your intended usage, it's not anywhere near ideal. The trajectories of a 110gr supersonic load and a 194gr subsonic load are worlds apart. Not sure how this thread got sidetracked into longer range shooting. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 10:37:12 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is supersonic 300BO from an 8" barrel better than supersonic 223 from an 11.5" barrel? That is where I am right now. If so, I am game for the 300. It will honestly be years before I can get a suppressor anyway. I have electronic ears I can keep by the bed anyway... |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 2:54:48 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course, hence the 'HD' in the first sentence of my post, and I thought that is what the OP was asking about. Not sure how this thread got sidetracked into longer range shooting. |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 5:07:37 AM EST
[#35]
If you're going to get a can, get a BO.
The 556 is cheaper to run. I like both. |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 5:17:06 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is supersonic 300BO from an 8" barrel better than supersonic 223 from an 11.5" barrel? That is where I am right now. If so, I am game for the 300. It will honestly be years before I can get a suppressor anyway. I have electronic ears I can keep by the bed anyway... Also, auditory exclusion in the heat of battle will most likely make your hearing concerns a moot point. |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 10:37:16 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subs will work fine for HD.I put one together for my brother two weeks ago and so far it has been perfect through right at 400 rounds. 100 of them were subs.This is his. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283933.JPG I've shot .223 in 7.5 and 10.5 barrel lengths and to me even the non-sub don't have the concussion of the .223. I'm just waiting for my upper to get here to finish my .300.Hopfully tomorrow or Monday. Here's my lower. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283934.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/74472/image-283936.JPG |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 3:41:03 PM EST
[#38]
I'm looking at an 11.5" 223 right now. I see they make muzzle devices that keep the blast forward. I think this is a decent starting point.
Thanks All |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 7:55:31 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm looking at an 11.5" 223 right now. I see they make muzzle devices that keep the blast forward. I think this is a decent starting point. Thanks All It sounds like you're trying to get as close to the benefits of a suppressed weapon as possible without actually using a suppressor. What you will learn is that there suppressed, and there is unsuppressed, and it isn't a spectrum. No mixture of subsonic ammo or muzzle device is going to make any difference to your hearing from a center-fire gun. Anything unsuppressed is going to be unbearably loud in normal circumstances, and in those auditory exclusion moments, it would not matter if you were shooting a subsonic 9mm or a 44 Magnum or an SBR 308. You won't notice how loud it is, but you'll suffer the same hearing loss. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 2:19:39 PM EST
[#40]
Since this thread started, I've been trying to research this original question a good deal. The problem is that most data I find doesn't give a good apples-to-apples comparison between 300BO, .45, and 9mm subsonics...or...it doesn't provide enough detail to come to a good conclusion.
What material I have gone over, however, still indicates to me that the 300BO should still be superior up to and at the 100 yard mark. When I can find bullet drop data, it usually indicates more drop for .45 and 9mm subs. 300BO seems to hover between 3"-6" in subsonic. Being a reloader I can see one fairly big component of the Blackout that would assist it...far superior bullet BC. As most 9mm and .45 subs go down range, they lose a lot of steam just because of their generally bad BC characteristics. A 208g-220g AMAX or ELD pushed at the same speed allows less energy to be bled off within that 100 yard range. This isn't important for MP5 house clearing duties, but that's not what we're talking about if I understood correctly. Again...I claim no expert status here. Exacting data on this was hard for me to find, and I certainly didn't find it. Lots of opinions and such, and even some info that appeared quite good, but then they didn't list barrel length and other critical factors. This is the pistol forum, and pistol length is what we were talking about originally. Surely someone has performed an equal-to-equal test against 300BO with at least one of these pistol calibers in subsonic mode. If you find it, please link it. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 4:01:24 PM EST
[#41]
Ok, let me pare this down a little more.
How effective is 55g/ 62g .223 from a 10.5" barrel at 20'? .... compared to 12g 00buck... (I want 11.5" but 10.5" barrels are everywhere... and I really like the Aero upper). |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 4:57:05 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since this thread started, I've been trying to research this original question a good deal. The problem is that most data I find doesn't give a good apples-to-apples comparison between 300BO, .45, and 9mm subsonics...or...it doesn't provide enough detail to come to a good conclusion. What material I have gone over, however, still indicates to me that the 300BO should still be superior up to and at the 100 yard mark. When I can find bullet drop data, it usually indicates more drop for .45 and 9mm subs. 300BO seems to hover between 3"-6" in subsonic. Being a reloader I can see one fairly big component of the Blackout that would assist it...far superior bullet BC. As most 9mm and .45 subs go down range, they lose a lot of steam just because of their generally bad BC characteristics. A 208g-220g AMAX or ELD pushed at the same speed allows less energy to be bled off within that 100 yard range. This isn't important for MP5 house clearing duties, but that's not what we're talking about if I understood correctly. Again...I claim no expert status here. Exacting data on this was hard for me to find, and I certainly didn't find it. Lots of opinions and such, and even some info that appeared quite good, but then they didn't list barrel length and other critical factors. This is the pistol forum, and pistol length is what we were talking about originally. Surely someone has performed an equal-to-equal test against 300BO with at least one of these pistol calibers in subsonic mode. If you find it, please link it. Not to mention that I actually provided you with ballistic drop charts comparing one of the best subsonic loads (BC wise) to your average pistol projectiles. Those are all using data direct from their manufacturer's websites, it's all correct and the numbers don't lie. As for barrel length and stuff like that, it doesn't matter as we're talking about subsonic loads. Barrel length only matters in the sense that velocities typically go up with longer barrels. We're limiting ourselves to a specific velocity, regardless of barrel length, though, so it's not really important as far as this discussion is concerned. Also, since terminal ballistics is a component that needs to be examined in this equation, those AMAX and ELD projectiles aren't going to do anything but poke holes at such low velocities, whereas pretty much every pistol caliber JHP projo is going to reliably expand. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 5:11:17 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, let me pare this down a little more. How effective is 55g/ 62g .223 from a 10.5" barrel at 20'? .... compared to 12g 00buck... (I want 11.5" but 10.5" barrels are everywhere... and I really like the Aero upper). You also have to factor in the AR being a more compact package, lighter weight, easier to reload, larger capacity, exponentially larger range, etc, etc. Based on your original "wants" in this thread, a 10.5" AR pistol makes the most sense, IMO. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 5:32:38 PM EST
[#44]
Awesome. Thank you
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Posted: 8/22/2017 5:45:40 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Awesome. Thank you 64gr Gold Dot @ $0.50/round 62gr MSR @ $0.77/round 75gr TAP SBR @ $0.70/round There are a bunch of other if you look in the "ammo" section here in the AR forum. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 10:28:54 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a noob in the field of AR pistols, though I have a couple... what is the advantage of a .300BO subsonic?... what advantage does a 140grain .308" projectile at 1050fps have over a 147 .355" projectile at 1050fps? I was on the fence about my next build and decided on 300blk over 9mm because of initial cost. After the blackout build 9mm is high on my want list. It might be after a 45-70 or .450 bushmaster for suppressed deer hunting though. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 6:33:29 AM EST
[#47]
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Posted: 8/25/2017 6:49:35 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryLooks good. I've heard some decent things about those DSG "duty grade" uppers. CMV barrels are pretty much the standard when it comes to ARs, so yeah, they're fine.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 5:42:49 PM EST
[#49]
I love my 7.5 for HD. I don't know about anybody else but , 30 rds of any 223/556 at 0-75 yards is going to be enough.
heard people complain about short barrels. but I can guarantee 110% none of them would ever want to be on the receiving end of even one round |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:41:36 PM EST
[#50]
IMHO there is no point to using sub-sonic ammo without a can. Cans and subs are made for each other and are somewhat mission specific -- stealth (it's harder to determine the source of incoming from a distance) and entry work (a team needs to comunicate) and just having a blast without taking out your ears.
Imagine 30 rounds each from a few people in a close urban environment. The 300 really shines when you need a quiet and maneuverable PDW type weapon. |
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