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Posted: 8/8/2004 3:37:43 PM EST
I spoke with the DSA reps at Camp Perry this weekend. DSA will be selling AUGs when 2 things happen.
1. The Ban expires.
2. I quote "we get the parts from the rich, young, asshole who is sitting on them".

They will be making the proper number of USA manufactured parts to build with Styer parts. They will be making 2 recievers. One that takes AUG mags, and one that takes M16 mags. He said the price will probably be around $1200-$1300. That's all I know and I hope I posted on the correct board. I seem to remember originally reading about the Augs here.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 3:45:18 PM EST
Saving my pennies. - to date the only viable bullpup is the M17S. The AUg would make a nice addition.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 3:58:07 PM EST
The Aug was my dream gun since I watched Miami Vice as a kid. But after watching people try to run courses of fire with them at various competitions I think they're pretty useless now.

With that said, if I was a "fill up the safe" kinda guy, I guess this would make a good way to fill that spot for less. And if it's made by DSA I would have no complaints.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 4:03:57 PM EST
Hmm...the new A3 model takes AUG and AR mags.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 4:53:07 PM EST
Tagged, SBR that puppy is my plan.

John
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 5:54:30 PM EST
woohooo, Takes AR mags. I have lots of those

Though now they have to come out with it that I am not working full time, am poor and going to school.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 6:02:35 PM EST
Left handed version and I'm in.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 6:04:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 6:23:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By norman74:
But after watching people try to run courses of fire with them at various competitions I think they're pretty useless now.





Damn, we agree on something again. Im scared

.

Link Posted: 8/8/2004 6:29:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
The Aug was my dream gun since I watched Miami Vice as a kid. But after watching people try to run courses of fire with them at various competitions I think they're pretty useless now.

With that said, if I was a "fill up the safe" kinda guy, I guess this would make a good way to fill that spot for less. And if it's made by DSA I would have no complaints.



What problems have you seen with the AUG?
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 6:39:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By knightone:

Originally Posted By norman74:
The Aug was my dream gun since I watched Miami Vice as a kid. But after watching people try to run courses of fire with them at various competitions I think they're pretty useless now.

With that said, if I was a "fill up the safe" kinda guy, I guess this would make a good way to fill that spot for less. And if it's made by DSA I would have no complaints.



What problems have you seen with the AUG?



try shooting weak side around a barricade
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 7:01:48 PM EST
good stuff! thanks for the update!
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 7:20:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:
Left handed version and I'm in.



Swap bolts and its a lefty version. That ought to be an option.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 7:27:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By TopCrest:

Originally Posted By knightone:

Originally Posted By norman74:
The Aug was my dream gun since I watched Miami Vice as a kid. But after watching people try to run courses of fire with them at various competitions I think they're pretty useless now.

With that said, if I was a "fill up the safe" kinda guy, I guess this would make a good way to fill that spot for less. And if it's made by DSA I would have no complaints.



What problems have you seen with the AUG?



try shooting weak side around a barricade



and doing a fast mag change. I know it can be learned/taught, but it is nowhere near as intuitive as the AR platform, or even the AK/FAL platform. It requires an unnatural set of motions that has to be taught & practiced, and is only applicable to that one weapon.

I also happen to think that the built-in optic sucks for CQB situations, and that it's difficult to transition from close to far targets. If it was a longer eye relief and set up in a scout configuration it would work better (but look really freakin strange).
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 7:47:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By TopCrest:

Originally Posted By knightone:

Originally Posted By norman74:
The Aug was my dream gun since I watched Miami Vice as a kid. But after watching people try to run courses of fire with them at various competitions I think they're pretty useless now.

With that said, if I was a "fill up the safe" kinda guy, I guess this would make a good way to fill that spot for less. And if it's made by DSA I would have no complaints.



What problems have you seen with the AUG?



try shooting weak side around a barricade



and doing a fast mag change. I know it can be learned/taught, but it is nowhere near as intuitive as the AR platform, or even the AK/FAL platform. It requires an unnatural set of motions that has to be taught & practiced, and is only applicable to that one weapon.

I also happen to think that the built-in optic sucks for CQB situations, and that it's difficult to transition from close to far targets. If it was a longer eye relief and set up in a scout configuration it would work better (but look really freakin strange).



I think it looks pretty freakin strange as it is
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 7:49:32 PM EST
Ive always wanted one but mine would have to be neutered and NOT called an AUG for me to own it in CT... i thinks...

- BUCC_Guy
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 7:52:07 PM EST
Kinda neat. I got to finger-fuck a USR in Winatchee once with a buddy of mine. Between the two of us, we couldn't figure out a way to change magazines. And at least I have the excuse of being an officer candidate with no prior enlisted experience. My friend, however, was an infantryman for a little over a year before going into officer training, though...

Kind of a neat weapon, although I prefer the basic AR platform.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 8:17:58 PM EST
Out don't have too much experience with bullpups in general, but i guess evertyhting that could be wrong with one is wrong with the AUG. So far nothing has compared to the AR as far as ergonomcs, modularity, and ease of use is concerned. At least for me, YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 8:30:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:
Left handed version and I'm in.



true that!
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 1:00:40 AM EST
Varity is the spice of life. If this does materialize and DSA starts selling at no more than $1200 then I would be game, maybe. I still think the AR, AK, FAL are better platforms.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 3:45:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2004 3:55:50 AM EST by xcpd69]
I had a couple back when they were around $600. Real space age looking things back then in the early 80's.

However, they felt awkward to handle and I was never truly comfortable with them. Sold them off and no big deal at the time.

Bought one last year, below market value at the time, simply because of the scarcity, and had forgotten how clumsy they felt to me. Played with it for a couple of months, then let someone talk me out of it, with no regrets.

Maybe cool for some, but I'll pass.



Lonny

EDIT: Now IF the ban expires, what would be neat is for someone to start re-importing Daewoos. Since they use M-16 mags already (3 US parts) and AR FCG works in them just fine (3 more US parts), all you would need is a US pistol grip (already available from Ace Ltd.) and maybe a GI A2 flash hider, and voila. A 922 compliant assault rifle with the best features of the AR-15 (FCG), AK-47(Gas system), and FN-FAL(Rock solid folding stock).
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 5:41:37 AM EST
I would be more interested in the .223 FAL prototype making it to production. I handled it at the 2003 SAR Show and haven't heard much since.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 5:46:52 AM EST
Couldn't figure out how to change the mag? You grab the mag with your weak hand and push up on the huge mag latch with your thumb and the mag pops out.
The site is very intuitive for both close far engagements. You put the circle on the target...hit target. The only time you change you point of aim is for shots over 300m. This is why its known as the 'donut of death.' The A2 and up models have a removable scope which allows you to mount whatever optics you want.
And as far as the ergonomics, they coulndt be much better. The center of gravity is right over the pistol grip so its easy to carry. The VFG is shaped to fit the hand (better than any I've seen for AR platforms) and folds up for prone shooting. The safety is positioned sho that you dont have to move you hand at all.
You can also switch out barrels in about 3 seconds with one hand and not have to rezero for a different barrel.
You also get better terminal performance because of longer barrel length. an AUG with a 20" barrel is 8" shorter than a 20" AR and 2" shorter than an 14.5" M4...the 16" AUG is 6" shorter than the M4.
Yes bullpups are different from what most folks are used to but all it takes is one afternoon at the range to get used to it.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 6:14:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By mcantu:
Couldn't figure out how to change the mag? You grab the mag with your weak hand and push up on the huge mag latch with your thumb and the mag pops out.
The site is very intuitive for both close far engagements. You put the circle on the target...hit target. The only time you change you point of aim is for shots over 300m. This is why its known as the 'donut of death.' The A2 and up models have a removable scope which allows you to mount whatever optics you want.
And as far as the ergonomics, they coulndt be much better. The center of gravity is right over the pistol grip so its easy to carry. The VFG is shaped to fit the hand (better than any I've seen for AR platforms) and folds up for prone shooting. The safety is positioned sho that you dont have to move you hand at all.
You can also switch out barrels in about 3 seconds with one hand and not have to rezero for a different barrel.
You also get better terminal performance because of longer barrel length. an AUG with a 20" barrel is 8" shorter than a 20" AR and 2" shorter than an 14.5" M4...the 16" AUG is 6" shorter than the M4.
Yes bullpups are different from what most folks are used to but all it takes is one afternoon at the range to get used to it.



I still have yet to see anyone make a reload from bolt hold open on an Aug even remotely as fast as can be done with an AR.

and shooting weak side around barricades?
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 6:46:10 AM EST
Yeah, AR's are faster to reload but I'd put reload time for an AUG at about the same as an M1A/FAL and faster than an AK.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 6:52:58 AM EST
Not being able to change firing shoulders is not really a valid point. Having a tac-sling on an M16 type makes this very difficult anyways.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 7:09:41 AM EST
I agree with XCPD69's post above.....someone should start importing the Daewoo's again. I took mine out shooting this past weekend and really do love that gun. It handles like an AR, feels like and AR, uses the same mag and FCG as an AR, but..BUT uses a GAS PISTON unlike the AR.

I don't know what kind of gas system the Aug uses but I would hope that it's a gas piston. Does anybody know type of system the Aug uses? I would want one just because of the "cool factor". I have been buying guns with the "cool factor" lately that I couldn't afford when in college.

So the point of my ramblings...make Augs cheap and import more Daewoos hanks,Ron
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 7:09:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stottman:
Not being able to change firing shoulders is not really a valid point. Having a tac-sling on an M16 type makes this very difficult anyways.



A) There are slings that allow you to work around this.
B) Not everyone wants a "tac sling" and can get by just fine with the good ole fashioned $5 sling.
C) If you think it's not a valid point, I'd like to know how you're going to fire from weak side cover with a rifle on your strong side shoulder when someone else is shooting back.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 1:24:29 PM EST
Well, we'd grab the magazine, but the pressure put on it by the grabbing motion combined with reaching for the magazine release would cause the mag to bind inside the mag well. The catch would (I'm pretty sure, anyway) disengage, but the magazine still wouldn't come out, as it was crooked inside the reciever.

The most consistant way we could figure out how to get the mag out was to press on the button without touching the magazine, but then the mag would fall out onto the floor, making a loud 'these customers are breaking our preban rifle' sound.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 1:32:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By DoctorCheney223:
I agree with XCPD69's post above.....someone should start importing the Daewoo's again. I took mine out shooting this past weekend and really do love that gun. It handles like an AR, feels like and AR, uses the same mag and FCG as an AR, but..BUT uses a GAS PISTON unlike the AR.

I don't know what kind of gas system the Aug uses but I would hope that it's a gas piston. Does anybody know type of system the Aug uses? I would want one just because of the "cool factor". I have been buying guns with the "cool factor" lately that I couldn't afford when in college.

So the point of my ramblings...make Augs cheap and import more Daewoos

Thanks,
Ron



You might as well import the FNC, in the above case...

Same deal, same old-fashioned gas system, etc...

Don't know if the AUG is piston operated or not... The only rifles I can think of besides the AR that don't use that system are the HK 9x & 5x series (MP5, G3, Mk21, and so on). Which is why the AR is so much better than (name your foreign 5.56mm design)...
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 1:37:59 PM EST
Ahhhhhhh shit there goes my money out the door again, fuck!!! I'm never gunna be able to save up enough for a freaking RR at this point.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 1:57:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2004 1:58:20 PM EST by strippedlower]

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By Stottman:
Not being able to change firing shoulders is not really a valid point. Having a tac-sling on an M16 type makes this very difficult anyways.



A) There are slings that allow you to work around this.
B) Not everyone wants a "tac sling" and can get by just fine with the good ole fashioned $5 sling.
C) If you think it's not a valid point, I'd like to know how you're going to fire from weak side cover with a rifle on your strong side shoulder when someone else is shooting back.



yeah, and i bet you are shooting from your weak side with people actually shooting at you all the time. give me a break.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 1:59:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2004 2:01:28 PM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 2:01:32 PM EST
For quick mag changes with the AUG, try this. Grab fresh mag in support hand, use the spine of the fresh mag to depress the mag catch lever. Spent mag falls free, insert fresh mag.

Not as quick as the AR, but pretty darn fast with some pratcice.

To shoot off the weak shoulder, you just have to get your cheek back (aft) on the stock. It's not the most comfortable position, but it works. Or you can cant the rifle inboard so the ejection port faces down.

Link Posted: 8/9/2004 2:09:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2004 2:09:50 PM EST by sgtstinger]
Shit...screw the AUG.

I'm waiting for SIG to start domestically producing the 550-series rifles & magazines for them.

Until then, I'll stick to AR's & M1A's.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 2:13:16 PM EST
Interesting thread, hope I can make a couple of statements about the AUG that will clear things up.
1) The gas piston is a short stroke job, way less than 1 inch of motion at which point it hits one of the two rods on the bolt, ( the other side is for the cocking lever, I know it's wierd but it works )
2) As for it's effectiveness in CQB, while I have never "seen the elephant" it is very quick and light. Try opening a door towards you with an AR/AK/FAL/FNC/etc.. at the ready and then try it with an AUG, also try picking up something, helping an injured buddy or anything else that would preclude a two handed grip on your weapon. You will see the balance of the AUG still lets you point it like a large pistol.
3) Mag changes are done by practicing!, slide the new mag up behind the old and hit the lever, rotate and slap the new one home. Not rocket science.
In short, until they invent the CQB/sniper/large bore/high capacity/light weight/laser aimed uber rifle I will stick with my AUG, It fits MY needs and that's what matters.
This does not mean that I will not continue to shoot and enjoy my other battle rifles but you could do a lot worse than the little green rifle.
Hope there are no glaring spelling mistakes, It's vino time here in AZ.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 2:47:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtstinger:


I'm waiting for SIG to start domestically producing the 550-series rifles & magazines for them.





+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link Posted: 8/9/2004 2:56:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By strippedlower:

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By Stottman:
Not being able to change firing shoulders is not really a valid point. Having a tac-sling on an M16 type makes this very difficult anyways.



A) There are slings that allow you to work around this.
B) Not everyone wants a "tac sling" and can get by just fine with the good ole fashioned $5 sling.
C) If you think it's not a valid point, I'd like to know how you're going to fire from weak side cover with a rifle on your strong side shoulder when someone else is shooting back.



yeah, and i bet you are shooting from your weak side with people actually shooting at you all the time. give me a break.



Give me a break. Get outside of the house once in a while. Theres buildings, stairwells that cut the wrong direction and cars parked with the engine block facing the opposite side you need it.

Think outside the square range where the targets are in the open facing you head on.



lumpy, come on. seriously, when can you name a time that anyone other than law enforcement or military has had to do anything like this? how may gunfights (not including a pistol) has anyone here been in? i can see how this is important, and i agree that there is a need to shoot from the weak shoulder, but realistically when are you ever going to use these tactics. be real.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 3:30:40 PM EST
I only see the AUG as being at an advantage is high speed room clearing, buttonhook and all that, where speed is the most important and you want a short rifle that hits hard.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:03:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By thetruth:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By strippedlower:

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By Stottman:
Not being able to change firing shoulders is not really a valid point. Having a tac-sling on an M16 type makes this very difficult anyways.



A) There are slings that allow you to work around this.
B) Not everyone wants a "tac sling" and can get by just fine with the good ole fashioned $5 sling.
C) If you think it's not a valid point, I'd like to know how you're going to fire from weak side cover with a rifle on your strong side shoulder when someone else is shooting back.



yeah, and i bet you are shooting from your weak side with people actually shooting at you all the time. give me a break.



Give me a break. Get outside of the house once in a while. Theres buildings, stairwells that cut the wrong direction and cars parked with the engine block facing the opposite side you need it.

Think outside the square range where the targets are in the open facing you head on.



lumpy, come on. seriously, when can you name a time that anyone other than law enforcement or military has had to do anything like this? how may gunfights (not including a pistol) has anyone here been in? i can see how this is important, and i agree that there is a need to shoot from the weak shoulder, but realistically when are you ever going to use these tactics. be real.



How many car wrecks have you been in? Do you still wear your seatbelt?

How many times has your house been burglarized? Still lock the door when you leave the house?

How many times have you been bitten by a dog? Still pet strays?

How many times have you been mugged? Still approach homeless people in dark alleys?

You fight like you train. Of course, I hope I never have to use it, but if (when?) I do, I hope it's someone as clueless as you (with an Aug) on the other end.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:10:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:27:59 PM EST
Well with the new A3 stock, mags really isnt an issue...you can use either the AUG mag or an AR mag.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:36:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2004 4:37:52 PM EST by DoctorCheney223]
You might as well import the FNC, in the above case...

Same deal, same old-fashioned gas system, etc...

Don't know if the AUG is piston operated or not... The only rifles I can think of besides the AR that don't use that system are the HK 9x & 5x series (MP5, G3, Mk21, and so on). Which is why the AR is so much better than (name your foreign 5.56mm design)...


The FNC is a stamped weapon, why pay FN inflated prices for a stamped 5.56mm rifle? I like the FAL but the FNC has never impressed me. The Daewoo uses a forged lower just like the AR platform. You can use any of the trigger groups that an AR uses. The barrel contours of the AR and Daewoo the same. I just feel that a piston system is more reliable. I haven't carried an issued M-16 in over 14 years but do remember the weapon jamming on me more than once. I have beat the shit out of my Daewoo and taken shooting time after time without ever cleaning and it continued to function flawlessly.

Even HK tried to utilize the piston design in their version of AR-15 but from what I understand, that is over with because of a deal falling through with Colt hinking.gif .

Thanks,
Ron
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:44:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By thetruth:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By strippedlower:

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By Stottman:
Not being able to change firing shoulders is not really a valid point. Having a tac-sling on an M16 type makes this very difficult anyways.



A) There are slings that allow you to work around this.
B) Not everyone wants a "tac sling" and can get by just fine with the good ole fashioned $5 sling.
C) If you think it's not a valid point, I'd like to know how you're going to fire from weak side cover with a rifle on your strong side shoulder when someone else is shooting back.



yeah, and i bet you are shooting from your weak side with people actually shooting at you all the time. give me a break.



Give me a break. Get outside of the house once in a while. Theres buildings, stairwells that cut the wrong direction and cars parked with the engine block facing the opposite side you need it.

Think outside the square range where the targets are in the open facing you head on.



lumpy, come on. seriously, when can you name a time that anyone other than law enforcement or military has had to do anything like this? how may gunfights (not including a pistol) has anyone here been in? i can see how this is important, and i agree that there is a need to shoot from the weak shoulder, but realistically when are you ever going to use these tactics. be real.



How many car wrecks have you been in? Do you still wear your seatbelt?

How many times has your house been burglarized? Still lock the door when you leave the house?

How many times have you been bitten by a dog? Still pet strays?

How many times have you been mugged? Still approach homeless people in dark alleys?

You fight like you train. Of course, I hope I never have to use it, but if (when?) I do, I hope it's someone as clueless as you (with an Aug) on the other end.



far from clueless, i actually agree with you guys that you need to train for these situations, my point is that its not a valid reason for avoiding the aug altogether. thats like saying " the 1911 is no good because it only has 7 rounds"
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:46:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By thetruth:
lumpy, come on. seriously, when can you name a time that anyone other than law enforcement or military has had to do anything like this? how may gunfights (not including a pistol) has anyone here been in? i can see how this is important, and i agree that there is a need to shoot from the weak shoulder, but realistically when are you ever going to use these tactics. be real.



So cover is only for military and police, not civilians???

Sorry, cant participate in that discussion.



no, perfectly good idea to use cover, i just dont think it is a reason to avoid the aug altogether. i really like them, but if the SHTF, i would be grabbing my AR before i would an aug.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 9:11:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:
Ahhhhhhh shit there goes my money out the door again, fuck!!! I'm never gunna be able to save up enough for a freaking RR at this point.


You're saving up for a rail road?
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 10:44:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:
Left handed version and I'm in. hr


Me too.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 11:05:45 AM EST
You just need to swap out the bolt for a left handed one and switch the ejection port cover to the other side and you're good to go.



Originally Posted By CavalryJim:

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:
Left handed version and I'm in.



Me too.

Link Posted: 8/13/2004 11:33:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Balisong:

Originally Posted By sgtstinger:


I'm waiting for SIG to start domestically producing the 550-series rifles & magazines for them.





+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Better have an infinite amount of patience.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 11:44:22 AM EST
I LOVE my Daewoo DR-200

Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:23:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By thetruth:
thats like saying " the 1911 is no good because it only has 7 rounds"



No, it's not even remotely the same thing.
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