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Posted: 6/27/2013 9:13:14 AM EDT
Title says it all. I'm just curious, as I think it would give some insight to their production capability.
Link Posted: 6/28/2013 7:29:28 AM EDT
I thought they were ALL broached.  Will Wire EDM actually go that deep?
Link Posted: 6/28/2013 8:02:49 AM EDT



Quoted:


I thought they were ALL broached.  Will Wire EDM actually go that deep?


It doesn't mean what you think it means. wiki



 
Link Posted: 6/28/2013 8:52:02 AM EDT
Quoted:
I thought they were ALL broached.  Will Wire EDM actually go that deep?


Link Posted: 6/28/2013 9:02:42 AM EDT
Broaches will make a magwell perfectly fine and fast.  Large manufacturers can afford the specialized hardware.

Wire EDM magwells run at a loss due to the incredibly long cycle time.  Small manufacturers can use this more flexible machine and run all night.

Both make excellent magwells.

What ruins a magwell is a deep and massive embossing warping the material on that side of the magwell.  An engraved and wire EDM receiver doesn't have this potential problem.
Link Posted: 6/28/2013 7:19:52 PM EDT
I broach my mag wells. I built my own broaching machine, and had custom broaches made by DuMont. Total investment about $4500.00 . Very consistent from part to part. EDM is nice but unless you have the use for it, it is hard to justify the cost. There are some things that you can do with an EDM that you can not do with a cutting tool, even carbide. EDM does not care how hard the material is so you can cut heat treated material in any c scale. Plus you can do intricate paths and mini radiuses. I would love to have one but just can't justify. Craig
Link Posted: 6/28/2013 9:07:49 PM EDT
Quoted:
I broach my mag wells. I built my own broaching machine, and had custom broaches made by DuMont. Total investment about $4500.00 . Very consistent from part to part. EDM is nice but unless you have the use for it, it is hard to justify the cost. There are some things that you can do with an EDM that you can not do with a cutting tool, even carbide. EDM does not care how hard the material is so you can cut heat treated material in any c scale. Plus you can do intricate paths and mini radiuses. I would love to have one but just can't justify. Craig


I'd love to see your broach machine but I'm sure it's proprietary.  We don't do magwells but I program and run Mits wire EDMs.  Wire EDM is versatile but I wonder how they make money selling receivers using that process.  It is one hell of an expensive support machine.
Link Posted: 6/29/2013 3:46:56 AM EDT
I think the TDX lowers are wire EDM.

Most of the ARs lowers are broached.

Unless, it is stated on the info specs EDM is nice but time consuming. I do believe it takes like one EDM cut out a mag well like 20 or 30 mins.
Link Posted: 7/10/2013 1:29:02 PM EDT
Quoted:
I broach my mag wells. I built my own broaching machine, and had custom broaches made by DuMont. Total investment about $4500.00 . Very consistent from part to part. EDM is nice but unless you have the use for it, it is hard to justify the cost. There are some things that you can do with an EDM that you can not do with a cutting tool, even carbide. EDM does not care how hard the material is so you can cut heat treated material in any c scale. Plus you can do intricate paths and mini radiuses. I would love to have one but just can't justify. Craig


That is surprisingly cheap!

Did you just send DuMont the magwell dimensions?
Link Posted: 7/10/2013 1:30:13 PM EDT
Quoted:
I think the TDX lowers are wire EDM.

Most of the ARs lowers are broached.

Unless, it is stated on the info specs EDM is nice but time consuming. I do believe it takes like one EDM cut out a mag well like 20 or 30 mins.


I'm fairly certain Anvil Arms Wire EDM'd their lowers.
Link Posted: 7/11/2013 3:55:01 PM EDT
We fully machine our mag wells with a 6" long 1/8" endmill.....    Or at least that's what we keep telling people who are trying to figure out how we are doing it.    
Link Posted: 7/12/2013 2:22:43 AM EDT
I have run wire EDM on parts over 6" thick. Wire is great it many applications. For instance it can cut a cone with a keyway in it. Cool machines.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 7:30:33 PM EDT
My broach machine is not top secret. I built a horizontal electric over hydraulic press. 10 inch stroke. I made a bed 4 feet long out of 4 inch channel, spaced 2 inches apart back to back. I mounted a 6 inch machined angle plate on one end. I made adjustable mounting lugs the same dimension as on an upper. I use the pivot pin area to hold and locate the receiver flat surface to the verticle face of faceplate. I have an 18 inch machined bar that runs thru the faceplate. It is adjustable for square, and supported on back side. The bar is .898 wide, same as magwell width. It is 1.250 thick. It supports the broach when I push it through. I flip the receiver end for end and do opposite end. Broach is 20 inches long, .898 wide with .062 radius. I machine the well with a .500x 2.5 l.o.c carbide. The broach will take the .250 radius to .062 in one pass. It takes about 2.5 minutes to do a magwell. I looked at the one shot magwell broach. they are close to $10,000.00. I wanted something fully adjustable so I could locate the front edge of well exactly. Also I can adjust overall length to whatever I want. Shoot me an e-mail, I will send a pic. Craig
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 5:28:40 AM EDT
Wire EDM can cut any thickness of any metal.   Modern wire EDM machines are self threading, and can run for hours on end unattended making multiple parts, and are capable of holding dimensions to +/- .0003 or less.    

We have 6 small EDM's where I work.  The tank has a quick change precision locating fixture that will hold 4 AR-15 lowers.      The lowers are loaded into the fixture on the work table, clamped into the machine  work area, and you press the start button.    The lowers have a hole drilled in them so the EDM can automatically start the wire in each lower.   When the first part is done, the machine moves on to the next part.    

Cycle time is about 12 minutes per lower and 4 lowers fit into each machine.    The quick change fixture with finished lowers is removed and a fresh set of 4 lowers are set up in about 30 seconds.


Machining the lowers takes much longer than broaching or EDMing the mag well.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 7:15:07 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wire EDM can cut any thickness of any metal.   Modern wire EDM machines are self threading, and can run for hours on end unattended making multiple parts, and are capable of holding dimensions to +/- .0003 or less.    

We have 6 small EDM's where I work.  The tank has a quick change precision locating fixture that will hold 4 AR-15 lowers.      The lowers are loaded into the fixture on the work table, clamped into the machine  work area, and you press the start button.    The lowers have a hole drilled in them so the EDM can automatically start the wire in each lower.   When the first part is done, the machine moves on to the next part.    

Cycle time is about 12 minutes per lower and 4 lowers fit into each machine.    The quick change fixture with finished lowers is removed and a fresh set of 4 lowers are set up in about 30 seconds.


Machining the lowers takes much longer than broaching or EDMing the mag well.
View Quote


What brand of machine are you running?  Coated wire?  That is a pretty quick burn time and a small bed.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 6:41:02 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wire EDM can cut any thickness of any metal.   Modern wire EDM machines are self threading, and can run for hours on end unattended making multiple parts, and are capable of holding dimensions to +/- .0003 or less.    

We have 6 small EDM's where I work.  The tank has a quick change precision locating fixture that will hold 4 AR-15 lowers.      The lowers are loaded into the fixture on the work table, clamped into the machine  work area, and you press the start button.    The lowers have a hole drilled in them so the EDM can automatically start the wire in each lower.   When the first part is done, the machine moves on to the next part.    

Cycle time is about 12 minutes per lower and 4 lowers fit into each machine.    The quick change fixture with finished lowers is removed and a fresh set of 4 lowers are set up in about 30 seconds.


Machining the lowers takes much longer than broaching or EDMing the mag well.
View Quote



12 minutes to do one magwell???  That's a lot of time compared to machining.
Link Posted: 7/30/2013 6:54:35 PM EDT
I am probably a little slower than most, I cannot do a finished magwell in 12 minutes. EDM sounds great. Wish I had one.
Link Posted: 7/30/2013 7:23:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am probably a little slower than most, I cannot do a finished magwell in 12 minutes. EDM sounds great. Wish I had one.
View Quote



It sounds great, but it has expensive consumables, and it's one more hold, or operation to do. Most people can do a lower complete start to finish in just two holds in a Horizontal. Doing the broaching operation in the machine makes it a one and done deal on that operation.

I would think it would be very hard to compete with other shops by using an EDM for magwells.


I would like one for making triggers and stuff though! Stacking a bunch of flat, and cutting 20 pieces or more at one time would be awesome!
Link Posted: 7/30/2013 7:29:56 PM EDT
CMT Tactical uses a wire EDM to cut their magazine wells. You can see it in work towards the end of this video:

CMT Lower Machining Video

Good music selection for the video IMO.  They make a very nice looking product. I have one of their lowers stashed away for a build.

Stan
Link Posted: 7/31/2013 6:42:34 PM EDT
TZLVredmist
Is there a 440 in that Charger? Doing a 6-pak for a numbers matching 70 CUDA right now. I am primarily a Ford guy but love those early Mopars. Even Chevy early muscle.
Link Posted: 7/31/2013 8:13:55 PM EDT
Yes sir, built 440 running Megasquirt homebuit tuned port full sequential fuel and spark. EFI  
Link Posted: 7/31/2013 9:51:49 PM EDT
Your not slow. You just want to see it done right. I sure like the mag wells I've seen of yours : ) more or less perfect.
Link Posted: 8/1/2013 12:55:54 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I thought they were ALL broached.  Will Wire EDM actually go that deep?
View Quote


I've ran an EDM down 14" of Monel (stainless alloy).  It'll do 2" of aluminum.  
Link Posted: 8/1/2013 3:51:31 AM EDT
Since the OP wanted to know who uses what process, how about if the folks who replied with things like "I use" or "where I work uses" actually let us know what companies you work for????  I tried to figure out by user name to no avail, and no sig lines to indicate.  Is it a secret?  We don't all know who everyone on ARFcom is......
Link Posted: 8/1/2013 8:01:28 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Since the OP wanted to know who uses what process, how about if the folks who replied with things like "I use" or "where I work uses" actually let us know what companies you work for????  I tried to figure out by user name to no avail, and no sig lines to indicate.  Is it a secret?  We don't all know who everyone on ARFcom is......
View Quote



Almost all of it is protected by NDA's

You wont find shops telling people who they make product for.
Link Posted: 8/1/2013 8:46:22 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We fully machine our mag wells with a 6" long 1/8" endmill.....    Or at least that's what we keep telling people who are trying to figure out how we are doing it.    
View Quote



Haha that's a good one.
Link Posted: 8/1/2013 10:06:31 AM EDT
I know LWRC lowers have zero broach/chamfer on them. Straight cut. I was kind of surprised by that, since the rest of the lower was pretty nice.


Link Posted: 8/1/2013 4:11:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2013 8:06:23 PM EDT
Soulman,My shop is CMS Engine service. I have been in the engine building business since 1979, and a firearm mfg since 84. Up until 2000 I screwed rifles together out of everyone else's parts. 2000, I started making my own lowers. 2007 I patented a new upper design where the bolt carrier rides on a rail system similar but not the same as an FAL. Since then I make my own carriers, uppers , lowers, front and rear sights, gas blocks, gas tubes, gas cylinders and gas pistons. You won't find me anywhere because I only can build 30-40 rifles a year. The local shops take everything.  Too many parts to make for one man to do alot. It is my therapy from the day job . I am going to see if I can get a good picture of my broach machine and put it on for anyone who is interested. I am not good at doing that. My wife says, how can you run your CNC machines and suck so bad at the computer. I said, I used a slide rule in highschool. She didn't even know what that was. Anyone wants to copy the broach, more power to ya.                       Craig
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 1:36:05 PM EDT
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