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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/31/2005 9:24:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 9:26:54 PM EDT by motown_steve]
If I put a full 20 or 30 round mag in (with the bolt closed) then I can get it to click if I slap the mag on the bottom. Does slapping a full mag into the mag well damage the gun? Some guns specifically state that you shouldn't do this because it will damage the extractor. Is this the case with AR's?



Link Posted: 8/31/2005 9:27:14 PM EDT
Should always give it a slap. Everytime
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 9:59:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
Should always give it a slap. Everytime

+1
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 10:04:15 PM EDT
these guns are built strong so i doubt it'll do any damage at all. go for it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:58:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
Should always give it a slap. Everytime

+1




+2
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:07:15 AM EDT
The current TTP, is not to slap the magazine while loading. But instead to insert with a firm push till it locks, than pull on the mag to ensure of the lock up. The reason for the slap not being preferred is that with some magazines a slap will cause a round to come loose, giving the potential for a double feed.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:20:50 AM EDT
How can a slap cause a round to come loose when slapped against a closed bolt? How is it popping out with the carrier holding the rounds inside the mag?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:29:08 AM EDT
I don't know but i've seen it happen on KD ranges here in the USMC. It is rare I think. I have alwas just pushed until it clicks. put some MAN behind it. (it shouldn't take much MAN at all considering Female Marines do it all the time... LOL)
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:35:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
How can a slap cause a round to come loose when slapped against a closed bolt? How is it popping out with the carrier holding the rounds inside the mag?





+1

­

i know when i slap my mags with the bolt close it actually pushes the rounds down some
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:44:38 AM EDT
I can see this happening if a fresh mag is inserted into the weapon with the bolt locked to the rear. I’ve had it happen to me, but I still tap the mags anyway! Old habbits are hard to break!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:59:04 AM EDT
One time I slapped a full mag into my rifle with the bolt closed. It shattered the entire magwell. Be careful . . .
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:59:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QUIB:
I can see this happening if a fresh mag is inserted into the weapon with the bolt locked to the rear. I’ve had it happen to me, but I still tap the mags anyway! Old habbits are hard to break!



Thats what its from!!! Rapid fire, shoot 5 rounds, bolt locks, take mag out retain it, put fresh 5 round mag in and send bolt home continue firing!

You good. Real good.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:06:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
One time I slapped a full mag into my rifle with the bolt closed. It shattered the entire magwell. Be careful . . .





what type of lower were you using?sounds like you had really good mags or a really crappy lower
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:06:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
One time I slapped a full mag into my rifle with the bolt closed. It shattered the entire magwell. Be careful . . .





what type of lower were you using?sounds like you had really good mags or a really crappy lower



LMAO!!! Must have been cast...
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:07:53 AM EDT
I'll add another vote for push-pull. It works great for both tactical and combat reloads.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:13:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chris157c:
You good. Real good.




Don't get it........am I missing something?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:00:31 AM EDT
I've always been a "slapper" but I gotta' quit doing that.

Did it at our last shoot with one of my old range mags and another guy's carbine. Did it with the bolt locked back and sure enough, popped a round loose. Hit the bolt release and had one hell-of-a-jam.

One round was crammed in above the gas tube while the other was jammed in the feed ramps. In the end we had to take the stock off to get the thing freed up.

Worst jam I've ever seen an AR do. Never was in the .mil so some of you may have seen this or worse.

But now I'm sold on push-pull. Just have to remember it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:11:20 AM EDT
slapping a mag is like slapping your woman. gets it line and lets it know what it has to do, what ever you tell it. slap away.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:38:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
One time I slapped a full mag into my rifle with the bolt closed. It shattered the entire magwell. Be careful . . .





what type of lower were you using?sounds like you had really good mags or a really crappy lower



I was just kidding. Slap it!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:44:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 7:48:22 AM EDT by mongo001]
For range bound shooters, slap the shit out of them, you're not hurting or losing anything. If you bust anything or jam up your rifle, big deal, you've got the rest of your life to fix it. BTW, slapping the bottom of the mag on an open bolt can cause a volcano of ammo spilling into the action, depending on the condition of your mags. It can and has happened.

For anybody else - push/pull.


PS: Don't forget to download your mags to 28.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:11:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By DevL:
How can a slap cause a round to come loose when slapped against a closed bolt? How is it popping out with the carrier holding the rounds inside the mag?



+1

i know when i slap my mags with the bolt close it actually pushes the rounds down some



Check this out... in order for the weapon to operate the rounds in the magazine are placed in front of the oncoming bolt (duh) so that the bolt can strip the round from the magazine and push it into the chamber. This means that the magazine is built that round push up on the bottom of a closed bolt towards that last quarter inch at the top of the magazine. That is why when a 30 round mag is full, you can still push the rounds down a little bit. So, when you load a full mag in a weapon that has the bolt closed, you have to push or slap it hard enough to overcome that last quarter inch resistance from the magazine spring to seat the magazine properly. That is also why it is easier to load a mag with the bolt open.



My head hurts now.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:13:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
I've always been a "slapper" but I gotta' quit doing that.

Did it at our last shoot with one of my old range mags and another guy's carbine. Did it with the bolt locked back and sure enough, popped a round loose. Hit the bolt release and had one hell-of-a-jam.

One round was crammed in above the gas tube while the other was jammed in the feed ramps. In the end we had to take the stock off to get the thing freed up.

Worst jam I've ever seen an AR do. Never was in the .mil so some of you may have seen this or worse.

But now I'm sold on push-pull. Just have to remember it.



See my above post, it is only necessary to slap a magazine when inserting it into a weapon with the bolt closed. If you slap it into a weapon with the bolt open, you run the risk of popping a round loose (shitty mag there) or prematurely releasing the bolt.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:21:14 AM EDT
if others around you are shooting, can you hear the click?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:23:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
if others around you are shooting, can you hear the click?



Slap, grab, give it a good yank. If it doesn't come out you are ok.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:25:01 AM EDT
I just give a firm push. Unless Im trying to impress someone.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:28:14 AM EDT
Mongo can vouch for this being a Pat Rogers Carbine Operators Course grad, but push/pull is what they teach. That was also the technique taught at the Larry Vickers course. Both courses also dictate loading a 30 round mag with 28 rounds.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:38:58 AM EDT
A little slap won't hurt. I've fallen in the Desert and had my A2 land on the mag really hard. The only damage will be to the bottom of the mag catch notch in the mag body. It tends to smoosh it a little.

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:55:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:13:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
If I put a full 20 or 30 round mag in (with the bolt closed) then I can get it to click if I slap the mag on the bottom. Does slapping a full mag into the mag well damage the gun? Some guns specifically state that you shouldn't do this because it will damage the extractor. Is this the case with AR's?






Yes, it will in fact damage the gun. Other things that you should avoid doing do a gun includes but not limited to: Cocking, , ejecting, shooting, and dissasembly.

Just keep this in mind and you'll effectively prevent any damage from occuring to your gun.

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 10:04:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:40:05 AM EDT
Treat thine mags as you would treat thine women, a slap and a tug every time...
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:03:05 PM EDT
Push it in, and pull it to seat. If it doesnt seat, push harder and pull again. If it still isn't seating, slap and pull or discard and try another mag. Don't waste time while doing this either.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:32:06 PM EDT
Push pull only works for loading to 28. I dont and wont download my weapon so I can use an open bolt loading technique with a closed bolt. I expect my rifle to fuction as intended with the normal load of 30 rounds. There is a seperate loading procedure for loading a 30 with a closed bolt. There is no need to slap an open bolt so I push/pull in that situation and slap the closed bolt reloads because thats what is necessary to get the job done.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:36:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Push pull only works for loading to 28. I dont and wont download my weapon so I can use an open bolt loading technique with a closed bolt. I expect my rifle to fuction as intended with the normal load of 30 rounds. There is a seperate loading procedure for loading a 30 with a closed bolt. There is no need to slap an open bolt so I push/pull in that situation and slap the closed bolt reloads because thats what is necessary to get the job done.



I would rather just load 28. If you slap it and go to fire, and the mag drops from your rifle, your unloaded rifle would think 28 rounds was almost infinite. YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 1:32:10 PM EDT
I guess the intent of the training is to have troops do one thing one way every time, vice training having them develop muscle memory on two different techniques, this is an important thing when it comes to items we want them to do perfectly under stress. Also plays into why we only have them load 28 rounds in order to do a reload on a closed bolt.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:09:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:14:12 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]

Originally Posted By rifleman2000:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By DevL:
How can a slap cause a round to come loose when slapped against a closed bolt? How is it popping out with the carrier holding the rounds inside the mag?



+1

i know when i slap my mags with the bolt close it actually pushes the rounds down some



Check this out... in order for the weapon to operate the rounds in the magazine are placed in front of the oncoming bolt (duh) so that the bolt can strip the round from the magazine and push it into the chamber. This means that the magazine is built that round push up on the bottom of a closed bolt towards that last quarter inch at the top of the magazine. That is why when a 30 round mag is full, you can still push the rounds down a little bit. So, when you load a full mag in a weapon that has the bolt closed, you have to push or slap it hard enough to overcome that last quarter inch resistance from the magazine spring to seat the magazine properly. That is also why it is easier to load a mag with the bolt open.



My head hurts now.



so does this not push the rounds down when loading with bolt closed


how is what your saying any different from what i said? either way the rounds get pushed down when inserted with the bolt closed as in at home, forward, lugs locked, bolt against chamber, no opening, less tension on the buffer spring, ready to fire, see carrier through ejection port. you know?

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:16:33 PM EDT
With my 20rd mags I just push them in and my fingers can grip the rolled edge of the magwell. A squeeze will then seat the mag and I get a good click. I have found with my 30rd mags that if I slap the bottom I often get a bounce and the mag will fall right out. I just give them a really good push and they seat well.
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