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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:53:12 PM EDT
Just got a case of WOLF Gold .223 for under $300 shipped; Wolf steel cased was only $60 less per case. Seems just a few years ago the difference was more like $100 or more. I don't mind shooting steel cased and have shot a lot of it, but if I can get cleaner burning, reloadable brass for just $60 more , why buy steel ? Ya, it adds up over time, but why not stack the "good stuff" while it's at it's lowest price in years. Seems brass has come down and steel has come up in the last few years, odd yes ? Any thoughts on the topic ? -Thanks
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 8:10:51 PM EDT
I shot some Wolf Gold .223 55 gr. FMJ today out of a Remington 700 SPS tactical and surprisingly got 1 moa @ 100 yards with it.  Not bad for factory bulk ammo.  Wolf Classic Steel Case ammo does not impress me at all and has only functioned in half of the rifles I have tried it in.  The Remington 700 was not one of them.  I would rather have ANY brand brass ammo over the very best steel cased stuff on the market.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 8:31:08 PM EDT
With decent brass like Wolf Gold going for $300/1K, it is not worth it to shoot Russian steel cased.

I shoot Wolf Gold in 3 gun and tactical rifle matches. It is always good to go and groups well. This past Saturday, the shooters using wolf steel and tula had malfunctions.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 3:15:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 3:21:30 AM EDT by lazyengineer]
So I was at a carbine shoot this weekend.  First one I ever did, and what a blast.  I'm the noob, so I pay attention to what the guys who obviously are serious about this are doing.   I shoot a LOT in general and in High Power, but this is a new game - I've never done run and gun carbine short range shooting like this, and never formally in competition.  All rifles are AR based.  Most of the serious guys are shooting steel cased ammo.   Hornady, Wolf, Tula, etc.   I was surprised they were all shooting steel, I thought that stuff would jam.  Accuracy is crap too, but it's all like 10 yards anyway.    I set up a camera to video some of the obviously better guys, so I can compare how they do it - so I can learn.   First guy starts, bam bam  JAM!  Well... that guy just jammed on the steel (badass looking rifle too).  After clearing it.  fire fire JAM!   Jammed again.  Ok....   I'm the new guy in this game, so maybe I don't know what I'm doing and there's just something amiss with his gun?

Next guy shoots, all is well.  Ok, there we go.

Next guy goes up - again, this guy look really good, obviously someone to watch and learn from.  Bam bam - look at that steel fly.  JAM!

Same standard steel jam every time - failure to extract because the cases stuck in the chamber.  You know what, that's all the confirmation I needed.  I was already plenty sure that steel is less reliable than brass (yes, I'm sure someone will immediately post that they never jam), and every single malfunction that day with .223 was with steel.  

None of the guys shooting brass jammed.   I came home with a huge sack of brass after the match (I left the steel).  There was a lot of ammo fired that day - none of the brass jammed.

As to price, You know, I'll shoot steel, when it's back down to ~15 cents a round and brass is stuck closer to 30 cents.  But for the marginal savings for steel, no way in Hell would I recommend that over 30 cent Wolf Gold.  Unless folks really shop and buy in bulk, you'll be paying close to that for retail steel!  I suspect the bottom is going to fall out of the market for steel in a couple months (<$200/k), and then maybe I'll pick up a couple practice cases,  But even then, guns that shoot steel, often jam on brass shortly after.   In theory, because it's not melting lacquer at all, but the poor seal causing carbon build up, gumming up the chamber.


It's really got to be cheap AND brass has got to be expensive, for me to ever recommend steel for anything, and never for anything that matters. That time is not now.






Link Posted: 8/31/2015 3:38:27 AM EDT
Every AR I have (except one) will shoot steel cased all day long with no complaints (and that ONE is in route back to manufacturer due to this issue). I, too, have converted over to Wolf Gold (and wolf gold is the reason 5.56 brass case ammo is coming down in general, it's putting serious hurt on the competition), but I still have a ton of steel. I will NOT own a finicky weapon and require them to shoot the full spectrum of ammo. When times get tough (imagine next "scare", import restrictions, etc), you'll be glad you have a rifle that can shoot crappy ammo.
Those guys who seemed like great shooters shooting steel cased, probably use steel case because they shoot A LOT (it does add up quickly).
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 6:22:58 AM EDT
All my 5.56 weapons run steel cased 100%, but until the gap between steel and brass spreads out more than the $60 it is now, I'm stacking the brass. I remember not to long ago when WOLF steel cased could be had for $199 shipped and brass M193 was running $350. I see another big run on guns and ammo coming in the next 6-9 months, with these 2 to 4 people shootings the media eats up every few weeks and an election around the corner. Remember 2008 and 2013 ?
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 1:52:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MaverickAA:
Every AR I have (except one) will shoot steel cased all day long with no complaints (and that ONE is in route back to manufacturer due to this issue). I, too, have converted over to Wolf Gold (and wolf gold is the reason 5.56 brass case ammo is coming down in general, it's putting serious hurt on the competition), but I still have a ton of steel. I will NOT own a finicky weapon and require them to shoot the full spectrum of ammo. When times get tough (imagine next "scare", import restrictions, etc), you'll be glad you have a rifle that can shoot crappy ammo.

Those guys who seemed like great shooters shooting steel cased, probably use steel case because they shoot A LOT (it does add up quickly).
View Quote


Yea I bet!  The carbine/3-gun game seriously burns up the ammo!  

I think the savings used to add up quickly, but not as much any more.  Wolf gold is 30 cents a shot - delivered after taxes.  $6/box.    I see Steel case ammo advertised for what, about 24 cents a shot?  But that's usually before taxes and delivery. Let's call it 25 cents delivered.  That's $5/box - and no hope of brass recovery (with brass worth about 6-10 cents a casing, if purchased).  Out of the 180 rounds fired in competition like what I did this weekend, that's 9 boxes.  Shooting steel all day at competition saved those competitors ~$9 each.   I spent that much on my fast food on the drive home.  And I wasn't pissed off that my $1200 rig jammed and wrecked my contention for placement, for $9 in savings.

Everyone who jammed seemed surprised - I suspect because they too showed up on competition day confident that their AR too would shoot steel cased all day long with no complaints.  They jammed - more than one guy and more than once.   It's not just me, at least one other poster in this short thread observed the same this weekend as well.  There's something about competition shooting (be it High Power, or 3-gun) that stresses gear and you, that causes things to fail.  IMHO, shooting steel is running close to the edge of the design parameters, If ever there is a cross-over that edge from heretofore old-reliable into the jam-zone, it will be in competition or hunting setting.  
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 2:00:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 2:51:16 PM EDT by lazyengineer]
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Originally Posted By kyron4:
All my 5.56 weapons run steel cased 100%, but until the gap between steel and brass spreads out more than the $60 it is now, I'm stacking the brass. I remember not to long ago when WOLF steel cased could be had for $199 shipped and brass M193 was running $350. I see another big run on guns and ammo coming in the next 6-9 months, with these 2 to 4 people shootings the media eats up every few weeks and an election around the corner. Remember 2008 and 2013 ?
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Originally Posted By kyron4:
All my 5.56 weapons run steel cased 100%, but until the gap between steel and brass spreads out more than the $60 it is now, I'm stacking the brass. I remember not to long ago when WOLF steel cased could be had for $199 shipped and brass M193 was running $350. I see another big run on guns and ammo coming in the next 6-9 months, with these 2 to 4 people shootings the media eats up every few weeks and an election around the corner. Remember 2008 and 2013 ?


Ok this is what I was wanting to know.  I'm trying to decide where the bottom will be for Wolf Gold, and pick up some more then.  If brass was going for $350 when steel was going for $199, then Wolf Gold may already be closer to the bottom than I was thinking.

Originally Posted By kyron4:
Just got a case of WOLF Gold .223 for under $300 shipped; Wolf steel cased was only $60 less per case. Seems just a few years ago the difference was more like $100 or more. I don't mind shooting steel cased and have shot a lot of it, but if I can get cleaner burning, reloadable brass for just $60 more , why buy steel ? Ya, it adds up over time, but why not stack the "good stuff" while it's at it's lowest price in years. Seems brass has come down and steel has come up in the last few years, odd yes ? Any thoughts on the topic ? -Thanks


At the risk of flirting away from the technical-focus of this forum, I have a technical thought on the current pricing and availability:
The commodity price of copper is at an exceptional low right now.   The cost of energy (which also means international and residential delivery transportation) is exceptionally low.  So prices are falling, and very possibly have not even bottomed out yet, but at a guess, are getting close.  I think these low prices will continue to last for a while - but not forever. One interesting note, most of my Wolf Gold is stamped 2014 on the cases.  If they are still making it, energy and metal prices have only fallen since then, and prices COULD fall even lower.

BUT, one pen stroke from a lame-duck President, and imported ammo is gone.  My advise: aggressively invest in brass cased ammo over the next few months.  Reloading components, magazines,  and guns can wait.  The guns are domestic, reloading components (powder in particular) are still overpriced.  While on the flip-side: ammo is both bulky and heavy (i.e. expensive to ship, when fuel prices go back up).  Now is the time to defer other guns-budget items and build your brass cased ammo inventory.  Watch for a price drop on steel, it's not bottomed out yet I don't think - even if you shoot steel, don't buy yet, is my advise.

The free shipping on ammo is where the real savings is.  Hug a frack'er.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 2:48:58 PM EDT
I love steel cased wolf for blasting ammo.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 2:49:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 2:50:01 PM EDT by lazyengineer]
... [double post]
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 3:10:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 3:11:03 PM EDT by Dirtymoe21]
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Originally Posted By gotigers:
With decent brass like Wolf Gold going for $300/1K, it is not worth it to shoot Russian steel cased.

I shoot Wolf Gold in 3 gun and tactical rifle matches. It is always good to go and groups well. This past Saturday, the shooters using wolf steel and tula had malfunctions.
View Quote



Have to agree with this. I use to buy steel case, but at .30 per round for brass it's a no brainer for me.
Link Posted: 9/1/2015 10:07:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2015 10:11:40 AM EDT by vagrenadeer]
Originally Posted By kyron4:
Just got a case of WOLF Gold .223 for under $300 shipped; Wolf steel cased was only $60 less per case. Seems just a few years ago the difference was more like $100 or more. I don't mind shooting steel cased and have shot a lot of it, but if I can get cleaner burning, reloadable brass for just $60 more , why buy steel ? Ya, it adds up over time, but why not stack the "good stuff" while it's at it's lowest price in years. Seems brass has come down and steel has come up in the last few years, odd yes ? Any thoughts on the topic ? -Thanks
View Quote


only upshot would be if you were a non reloader who had an AR that liked steel and was really buying a ton to put away, you could roughly buy four 1K rd cases of steel for the price of three thousand WG.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:54:54 AM EDT
I've never tried wolf,  but Herters steel case has worked flawlessly for me in fmj and HP for about 500rounds. I have had problems with Tulammo .223 in my ar15 and mini14. I had a case stick in the chamber in both guns on the same range trip...  I had to ram rod them out.  I'll be selling all my Tulammo in 223.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 12:01:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2015 12:08:54 PM EDT by Spartikis]
Shoot wolf gold, its only $0.05 a round more and the brass is easily worth that much if not more.

Plus the steel jackets wear down your barrel faster.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 12:33:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer:


Yea I bet!  The carbine/3-gun game seriously burns up the ammo!  

I think the savings used to add up quickly, but not as much any more.  Wolf gold is 30 cents a shot - delivered after taxes.  $6/box.    I see Steel case ammo advertised for what, about 24 cents a shot?  But that's usually before taxes and delivery. Let's call it 25 cents delivered.  That's $5/box - and no hope of brass recovery (with brass worth about 6-10 cents a casing, if purchased).  Out of the 180 rounds fired in competition like what I did this weekend, that's 9 boxes.  Shooting steel all day at competition saved those competitors ~$9 each.   I spent that much on my fast food on the drive home.  And I wasn't pissed off that my $1200 rig jammed and wrecked my contention for placement, for $9 in savings.

Everyone who jammed seemed surprised - I suspect because they too showed up on competition day confident that their AR too would shoot steel cased all day long with no complaints.  They jammed - more than one guy and more than once.   It's not just me, at least one other poster in this short thread observed the same this weekend as well.  There's something about competition shooting (be it High Power, or 3-gun) that stresses gear and you, that causes things to fail.  IMHO, shooting steel is running close to the edge of the design parameters, If ever there is a cross-over that edge from heretofore old-reliable into the jam-zone, it will be in competition or hunting setting.  
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
Originally Posted By MaverickAA:
Every AR I have (except one) will shoot steel cased all day long with no complaints (and that ONE is in route back to manufacturer due to this issue). I, too, have converted over to Wolf Gold (and wolf gold is the reason 5.56 brass case ammo is coming down in general, it's putting serious hurt on the competition), but I still have a ton of steel. I will NOT own a finicky weapon and require them to shoot the full spectrum of ammo. When times get tough (imagine next "scare", import restrictions, etc), you'll be glad you have a rifle that can shoot crappy ammo.

Those guys who seemed like great shooters shooting steel cased, probably use steel case because they shoot A LOT (it does add up quickly).


Yea I bet!  The carbine/3-gun game seriously burns up the ammo!  

I think the savings used to add up quickly, but not as much any more.  Wolf gold is 30 cents a shot - delivered after taxes.  $6/box.    I see Steel case ammo advertised for what, about 24 cents a shot?  But that's usually before taxes and delivery. Let's call it 25 cents delivered.  That's $5/box - and no hope of brass recovery (with brass worth about 6-10 cents a casing, if purchased).  Out of the 180 rounds fired in competition like what I did this weekend, that's 9 boxes.  Shooting steel all day at competition saved those competitors ~$9 each.   I spent that much on my fast food on the drive home.  And I wasn't pissed off that my $1200 rig jammed and wrecked my contention for placement, for $9 in savings.

Everyone who jammed seemed surprised - I suspect because they too showed up on competition day confident that their AR too would shoot steel cased all day long with no complaints.  They jammed - more than one guy and more than once.   It's not just me, at least one other poster in this short thread observed the same this weekend as well.  There's something about competition shooting (be it High Power, or 3-gun) that stresses gear and you, that causes things to fail.  IMHO, shooting steel is running close to the edge of the design parameters, If ever there is a cross-over that edge from heretofore old-reliable into the jam-zone, it will be in competition or hunting setting.  


Hi,

Thank you for your view, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I respect it since I've seen the same thing happen.  My AR rifles shoot steel cased 5.56 and 7.62x39 shoot and function reliably without jams, but they have chromed or melonited chambers and are not tightly chambered.   I've seen too many tight steel chambered AR rifles jam up in classes, and matches.  Chrome and melonited  chambers seem to do much better with steel ammo. Brass has the advantage in that rifles shooting it have cleaner chambers, and tight chambered AR rifles have less issue with it.  As for me I avoid the 55 grain steel loads and shoot the 62 grain steel loads without issue for practice and save brass for matches.   The Wolf Gold is quality ammo and I'm stocking up on it.

Best Wishes:
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