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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/24/2003 11:32:47 AM EDT
this stuff any good? i see sportsmansguide has some going for 3.97 a box. wondering if its worth picking up a couple hundred rounds.. thanks for the help.

Dagger
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 1:28:50 PM EDT
Dagger, superb stuff. I shot a case when it was widely available several years ago. Very accurate in three different rifles. It chronographed only slightly slower than IMI M855. Personally, I would not hesitate to use it in any situation.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 2:25:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2003 3:39:54 PM EDT by ar-jedi]
> Personally, I would not hesitate to use it in any situation. i disagree. i, along with others, have had several faliures-to-extract with recently purchased lots of this ammo due to case shoulder breakage. you can get more details (with photos) in the following thread: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=170373[/url] if you are just plinking at the range, and can tolerate jams, this ammo is probably fine. this is NOT good ammo for "tactical" or SHTF situations, unless you somehow enjoy unsticking a jammed rifle while someone is shooting back at you. so if you need your rifle to function, this Spanish SS109 isn't the ammo. stick with Q3131A or LC (or equivalent) for mission critical applications. ar-jedi
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:23:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ar-jedi: > Personally, I would not hesitate to use it in any situation. i disagree. i, along with others, have had several faliures-to-extract with recently purchased lots of this ammo due to case shoulder breakage. you can get more details (with photos) in the following thread: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=170373[/url] if you are just plinking at the range, and can tolerate jams, this ammo is probably fine. this is NOT good ammo for "tactical" or SHTF situations, unless you somehow enjoy unsticking a jammed rifle while someone is shooting back at you. so if you need your rifle to function, this Spanish SS109 isn't the ammo. stick with Q3131A or LC (or equivalent) for mission critical applications. ar-jedi
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While some have had problems with CARBINES I have YET to find fault with this ammo in a 5.56 chambered 20" rifle. It meets M855 specs and is a great bargin. Read the other thread on this.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 6:18:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M199: While some have had problems with CARBINES I have YET to find fault with this ammo in a 5.56 chambered 20" rifle. It meets M855 specs and is a great bargin. Read the other thread on this.
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> It meets M855 specs i highly doubt that. real M855 is used in real 14.5" bbl M4's, by real soldiers, is it not? with good results if i understand correctly. if this spanish ammo did indeed "meet M855 specs", i would not be having problems with it in my BM 16" (full, no brake) barrel (it's a 5.56mm chamber, btw). and others would be having similar good results. but that's not the case, is it? ps and in fact i did "read the other thread on this" -- about half of the posts have to do with FTE(xtract) problems with this ammo. WTF good is so-called "M855 spec" ammo that only marginally works in 16" bbls? in that case you are eventually going to find a round that doesn't work in a 20" bbl as well. pps i will restate my assertion for your benefit: if you need your 16" or 14.5" bbl rifle to function, this Spanish SS109 isn't the ammo. it may be marginal in 20" bbls as well. stick with Q3131A or LC (or equivalent) for mission critical applications. ar-jedi
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 12:11:33 AM EDT
Actually to be clear, the round meets SS109 specs. M855 also meets SS109 specs; but this round in not M855 though it is similar in construction and velocity. I've shot over 1,500 rounds of 1993 Lot 6 (93-SB-06) through a 16" Bushy HBAR with no stoppages of any kind. Lots specifically mentioned as being troublesome in carbines were 1993 Lot 2.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 9:46:21 AM EDT
Sportsmans guide is selling lot 2. 02-sb-93 to be exact. Its good shooting ammo other than the FTE. Im still waiting on my return lable to send 800 rounds back.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 3:59:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ar-jedi: > It meets M855 specs i highly doubt that. real M855 is used in real 14.5" bbl M4's, by real soldiers, is it not? with good results if i understand correctly. if this spanish ammo did indeed "meet M855 specs", i would not be having problems with it in my BM 16" (full, no brake) barrel (it's a 5.56mm chamber, btw). and others would be having similar good results. but that's not the case, is it? ps WTF good is so-called "M855 spec" ammo that only marginally works in 16" bbls? in that case you are eventually going to find a round that doesn't work in a 20" bbl as well. pps i will restate my assertion for your benefit: if you need your 16" or 14.5" bbl rifle to function, this Spanish SS109 isn't the ammo. it may be marginal in 20" bbls as well. stick with Q3131A or LC (or equivalent) for mission critical applications. ar-jedi
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I agree with you in the fact that in anything less than a 20" tube this lot of SB would not be a good idea BUT for the reasoning the AR was never designed for a barrel length less than 20". Cutting down the tube only opens up potential problems because of increased bolt velocities. I have stated before that there seems to be a pressure problem/or brass problem with this ammo because the case area around the web is averaging .002-.004 inches larger than XM,QA, Commercial fired brass. This MAY lead to sticky extraction if the chamber is tighter or rough. Throw this in with the handicap of a cut down gas system and your going to see more trouble. Real soldiers die because of politians (cilivian or Mil) choices. M855 is NOT a good choice in anything less than a 20" tube. It is not a great round and surely not a do it all round. Neither is the M4 and both are surely mismatched. If you want a "do it all" round you are giving up something in return. By the way, this ammo has chronoed a low of 3041 to a high of 3087 AVG of 3070 with an SS109 round equaling M855 specs. Bushmasters do not have a good rep in my book as I have seen the quality control go up and down from very good to very bad. I have seen alot of FTE's on the line which leads me to ask are their 5.56 chambers really 5.56? I've seen pretty crappy chambers as well. Point is that if some carbines are having trouble with ammo and some aren't , as well as 20' tubes not, you should be looking at the fault of your weapon choice because no supply is going to be sqeaky clean all the time. Find a weapon that will run on any octane available. This Spanish is not bad at all and if you have CONSISTANT problems with it, then you do not have a reliable combat weapon in my book.
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 3:17:11 PM EDT
I had so many extraction issues with this ammo I finally surrendered and heaved a 1/2 a case. These failures occured in both my Bushmaster Target 20 and my RRA M4gery. I would not buy this product again. Regards, Gary
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 4:11:28 PM EDT
Since you guys are sending this ammo back to SG, then ....WooHOO !! more for me. This ammo was surprizingly accurate from my Oly PCR-4 20". This was in comparison to several other ammo types: Q3131A, XM193, BHills 55gr SP, and BHills 50gr V-Max. At 100yds, 10shot groups...INI SS109 had no FTE's, no FTF's or KB's, and was comparable to Q3131A in accuracy. This part of an ongoing personal ammo test I'm doing just for fun....will include different distances and probably pumpkins. I'll let you guess which one is on top right now but here's a hint.... (XM193 ain't all what its cracked up to be)
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 6:06:58 PM EDT
Shot 200 rds of this stuff last week with a Colt 16" 1 in 7 barrel, Colt bolt W/extra strength extractor spring. Absolutely no problems. As accurate as any FMJ ammo I have used. Under 2" @ 125 yds for each 10 shot groups. I will buy this ammo again.
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 9:33:43 PM EDT
I bought one of these when I had a bunch of that crappy Olympic SS-109: [img]http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/applications/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=264477[/img] Lyman Rifle Case Length/Headspace Gauges .223 These precision gauges are machined to the specific dimensions of the cartridge caliber using the same high quality steel as in Lyman dies. The reloader simply inserts the case into the gauge and can immediately identify whether the case has the proper headspace or exceeds maximum overall case length. Should work great for finding Spanish cartridges that are out of spec.
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