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Posted: 5/8/2004 8:34:16 PM EST
I'd search for this first, but it's disabled currently :-( After the sunset I've been considering (like many I'm sure) aquiring a very nice AR-15 setup in anticipation/dispair of another AWB sometime in the future. As part of this rifle, I'd like to implement a sound suppression device of some sort. I admit I'm not very informed about firearms but I'm trying to learn and I enjoy them immensely.

I've read through the "Legal Issues" article on the NFA but I'm unclear as to which form would apply for what I want to do. I don't really need to buy the AR-15 with it already installed do I? If I can add it later, would that still be considered a transfer where I'd fill out Form 4?

I live in Utah and am hoping it won't be too much of an issue to get this going. I admit my desire in this weapon is more advanced than what I really need or UNDERSTAND at this point, but I'm really worried another AWB will be in place by the time I'm ready. I'd rather buy now based on others' advice.

Is there any other certifications or fees associated besides the $5/200 fee? I talked to some people at work that say it's incredibly expensive. I don't think $200 is THAT bad. Thank you for your time.

PS - The NFA article made me think that any sort of newer AR-15 that's capable of firing multiple rounds per trigger pull isn't legal for civilians no matter how many forms you're willing to fill out. Is this really the case? And I assume it would apply to burst firing modes as well :-/ Thanks again!
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 12:40:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 12:45:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 4:59:55 AM EST
First, Utah allows sound suppressors, so you are okay on that point. Next, since a sound suppressor also acts as a flash suppressor, it will currently have to be installed on a pre-ban AR-15 rifle only. If the '94 ban lapses in September, you will then be able to install one on a "post-ban".

You will need to locate a Class 3 dealer in Utah. You can either buy a "can" that he has in stock or order the brand you want through him. I just ordered a SRT Hurricane suppressor through my local class 3 dealer, as he did not currently stock SRT products. Since it is coming from out of state, I also have to wait on a manufacturer-to-dealer transfer, which generally takes up to 2 months.

Once the can is in your dealer's possession, you pay for it. The dealer then provides you with two Form 4's, two fingerprint cards, and a citizenship form. The Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) in your area must sign the Form 4's. The CLEO is generally the Chief of Police or Sheriff, depending on whether or not you live in city limits. You are then fingerprinted on the cards. Attach two passport photos of yourself on the form 4's and sign all the completed paperwork. Send all of this into the BATF with $200 (my dealer sends them in for me), and WAIT. It usually takes about 4 months for the BATF to approve a Form 4 transfer. When the approved paperwork arrives at your dealer's, he will notify you to come in and pick up your suppressor. Photocopy the Form 4, store the original in a safe deposit box or the like, and keep the photocopy with your suppressor wherever you take it.

Hope this simplifies things a little. Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:06:34 AM EST
Thank you for the input. Especially the detailed play-by-play M4. I really need to get started on this since it's going to take a while to complete. I imagine when I find a class 3 dealer, they'll be able to suggest which CLEO I should speak with. We'll see...

Troy: Thanks for clarifying the machinegun issue. That's unfortunate, but I'm not spending that much :-)

I'll probably have more questions as I get ready for sunset. Thanks for your time both.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:22:11 AM EST
why got through all the BS with the tax stamp and finger prints etc etc when you can just set up a trust? A trust can legally own cans, SBR, select fire weapons without paying for tax stamps , back groud checks etc. the best thing is you can leave it to a family member after you pass. You could also go the route of a S corp. Corporations have the same abilities as trusts but, the only draw back to a corp. is it has to remain to own the weapons./cans. I think i would rather pay $275 for a trust one time. That's just me.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:24:48 AM EST
M4Madness, a few questions about the SRT...

1) I've been under the impressions most (all?) sound suppressors act as flash suppressors as well. Is this the case with the SRT?

2) Are you having SRT thread your barrel?

3) I think it's currently illegal to have a post-ban threaded barrel isn't it? Does that mean I have to wait until sunset to get one threaded? Or is it simply that I CAN get a new barrel threaded, but simply not pair it with a post-ban receiver until sunset?

4) Sorry for all this, but when I purchase the suppressor, will it be registered as attached with just my name? Or will I need to register it with a particular firearm? I'm just wondering if I need to start piecing together my AR before I start the ATF process or if I can wait...

Thank you for your time.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 12:05:36 AM EST
Trusts and corporations pay the transfer tax just like everyone else.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 2:37:14 AM EST
Does anyone know where I could get more information about using a trust? I have heard about the corporate route but this is the first time I have ever heard about using a trust. Anyone actually done this? Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 1:00:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 1:04:05 PM EST by M4Madness]
M4Madness, a few questions about the SRT...

1) I've been under the impressions most (all?) sound suppressors act as flash suppressors as well. Is this the case with the SRT? Yes.

2) Are you having SRT thread your barrel? No, my M16's 14.5" barrel is already threaded. Although I would trust them to do it if I had needed it.

3) I think it's currently illegal to have a post-ban threaded barrel isn't it? Does that mean I have to wait until sunset to get one threaded? Or is it simply that I CAN get a new barrel threaded, but simply not pair it with a post-ban receiver until sunset? Yes, it is currently illegal to thread the barrel on a post-ban AR-15. You can buy a pre-ban threaded upper (or barrel), but you will be gambling on whether or not the '94 ban sunsets and is not replaced.

4) Sorry for all this, but when I purchase the suppressor, will it be registered as attached with just my name? Or will I need to register it with a particular firearm? I'm just wondering if I need to start piecing together my AR before I start the ATF process or if I can wait... The suppressor will be legal to install on any firearm that can legally have a threaded muzzle. You can swap it around on different .223 rifles such as AR-15's or bolt-actions. I'd say go ahead and order the suppressor since it will be 4-6 months before you are approved. By then, you will know what happened to the '94 ban. If it sunsets, you can buy a new full-feature rifle with a threaded barrel. If not, you can then pick up a pre-ban rifle somewhere. If you put together a rifle first, you will just have to wait even longer to get the suppressor. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:15:48 PM EST
M4, thank you very much. Your input has helped quite a bit. It's expensive, but not as expensive as I had thought it would be. I'll ask a local dealer anymore questions I have about this. Thank you for yout insight.

I need to finish/make a list of components I want to utilize in my post-post-ban AR so I can get started collecting them. I'm curious how a bayonet mount would work in concert with the SRT. I'll have to see if that's feasible.

Thanks again.
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