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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/23/2006 8:36:31 AM EDT
I bought my first AR last week, its a m4 style bushmaster 16" w/ A3 removable carry handle.

I took it to the range yesterday to try to zero it in and it was way off paper both high and left. I had to turn the windage knob nearly as far as it would go to correct the issue. I was also shooting about 12" high at 50 yards (range only has 7/15/50/100 yard targets). Bushmaster told me to send it to them, but I wanted to find out if anybody has expeienced similar issues? Only guy I have talked to said that his was perfect right out of the box.

I was also told different people site them in different ways (depending on how they look at the front site). I assume most peope line up the top of the front site in the center of the peep site?

Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:38:41 AM EDT
i have never had a bushmaster with canted sights but they are out there


there was a tacked thread about it somewhere but i cant find it.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:45:17 AM EDT
12" HIGH? at 50 yards. 24MOA off?

I'm assuming you tried to adjust the front sight? If so send it to Bushmaster, there is a serious problem.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:52:21 AM EDT
I adjusted the front site some, but was pretty discouraged about the windage. I did not want to waste the time/ammo if I was going to have to send it back anyways.

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:06:06 AM EDT
Well I've had perfect Bushmasters right out of the box. If you have a problem send it back to Bushmaster and they will rectify it. Now, if you think it may be YOU that's off, give it to a buddy to shoot, or someone with some AR shooting expieriance to see if they are getting the same results as you.

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:19:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By excist_and_reflect:
Well I've had perfect Bushmasters right out of the box. If you have a problem send it back to Bushmaster and they will rectify it. Now, if you think it may be YOU that's off, give it to a buddy to shoot, or someone with some AR shooting expieriance to see if they are getting the same results as you.




Yeah, but at 50 yards, you'd at least be able to hit a piece of paper if you're a complete newbie.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:26:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 9:42:46 AM EDT by redfisher]
This sounds like one of the over-torqued barrel issues

There are a couple of threads in Troubleshooting that have covered this

Plus I recall a place on Bushmasters web page addressing it as well

fast forward to the last chapter.............

most send theirs back to BM for repair.

EDIT

I had bookmarked a page on troubleshooting detailing all the canted FSB issues with Bushmaster and it is mysteriously gone now (site sponsor related perhaps)

Bushmaster offers a description of the problem in their Tech services section, but refers to it as one found when we replace our own barrels.

It could be the same problem you are having- check it out ------------> by clicking here

Or here- same symptoms
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:34:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By excist_and_reflect:
Well I've had perfect Bushmasters right out of the box. If you have a problem send it back to Bushmaster and they will rectify it. Now, if you think it may be YOU that's off, give it to a buddy to shoot, or someone with some AR shooting expieriance to see if they are getting the same results as you.




Yeah, but at 50 yards, you'd at least be able to hit a piece of paper if you're a complete newbie.



You'd be suprised, I know some bad shooters LOL.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 10:20:45 AM EDT
I had to install a taller front sight post to get my groups down at 25 meters. I was shooting 6" high. I was told that a lot of A3 style rifles, from various manufacturers, ship with the shorter post. I don't know enough to know if that's true or not but my old post was adjusted up so far to that it wiggled. The new longer post fixed my problems. Windage is a whole different problem though and I hope you get it taken care of. good luck.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 10:36:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 11:34:38 AM EDT by m4macro]
No I do not have any AR shooting experience. However, I am an avid target shooter and do site it my long guns and pistols with adjustable sites.

Thanks for the tips on the issues with bushmaster, I was unaware. I was hoping to avoid being without my new gun for a few weeks.

Edit* Oh, and FWIW, after each adjustment, I shot a 3 shot group. All were rougly 2 inch groups, just not where I wanted them to go.

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:40:15 PM EDT
Im going to a private range tomorrow, Ill shoot it and let somebody else and give a range report when I get back. Bushmaster's first and only question was "is it an A3 upper?" When I said yes, they immediately gave me a RMA# to return it.

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:44:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4macro:
Im going to a private range tomorrow, Ill shoot it and let somebody else and give a range report when I get back. Bushmaster's first and only question was "is it an A3 upper?" When I said yes, they immediately gave me a RMA# to return it.




Interesting response

I didn't mean to imply Bushmaster was overwhelmed with canted site issues or issues in general - but they have had a fair number of 'complaints' on this item

Bear in mind, Bushmaster produces around 50,000 AR15's a year, so they must be doing something right.

Keep us posted on your outcome.

oh........and welcome to AR15.com................ and thanks for chiming in.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:48:37 PM EDT
I am in no way questioning your rifle shooting ability, but I will relate my experience with a new Bushmaster. I had very limited rifle time and bought a Bushy for patrol work. I went through a 45 hour police rifle class and originally had to run my rear sight almost all the way to the right to zero the gun. I also did some adjusting on the elevation but I don't remember if I was high or low. Turns out, the more trigger time I got on the gun, the more I had to adjust the sights. I went to a local range last Monday and put about 300 rounds through the gun and guess what. When I finished zeroing the gun on irons and my new EOTech, the rear sight was back in the middle where it started. Then I shot a friend's Bushy that had the sights in the same place they were when he took it out of the box (he's into shooting from the hip and blowing stuff up, not accuracy). Guess what, I was hitting in the black with his gun, too. In my case, it turns out that I was using a different cheek weld and thus, was getting a different sight picture every time. Each time I shot, I was grouping shots beautifully, just in different areas of the target each time. Now that I'm consistent with my sight picture, my rounds are consistently going where I want them. Hopefully, your problem in similar to mine and not a defective rifle. The only thing that my situation hurt was my pride.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:40:21 PM EDT
Sorry to hear about your problem man but as stated by the others, it isn't your fault. There's something wrong with that barrel. I had the same issue with a RRA barrel when I was still shooting. One RMA later and it was fixed. I'm sure you're going to be taken care of once you get a hold of Bushmaster's tech guys.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:47:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shafer:
I am in no way questioning your rifle shooting ability, but I will relate my experience with a new Bushmaster. I had very limited rifle time and bought a Bushy for patrol work. I went through a 45 hour police rifle class and originally had to run my rear sight almost all the way to the right to zero the gun. I also did some adjusting on the elevation but I don't remember if I was high or low. Turns out, the more trigger time I got on the gun, the more I had to adjust the sights. I went to a local range last Monday and put about 300 rounds through the gun and guess what. When I finished zeroing the gun on irons and my new EOTech, the rear sight was back in the middle where it started. Then I shot a friend's Bushy that had the sights in the same place they were when he took it out of the box (he's into shooting from the hip and blowing stuff up, not accuracy). Guess what, I was hitting in the black with his gun, too. In my case, it turns out that I was using a different cheek weld and thus, was getting a different sight picture every time. Each time I shot, I was grouping shots beautifully, just in different areas of the target each time. Now that I'm consistent with my sight picture, my rounds are consistently going where I want them. Hopefully, your problem in similar to mine and not a defective rifle. The only thing that my situation hurt was my pride.



Good old fashioned nose to the charging handle helps keep one consistant!!

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:50:34 PM EDT
Welcome to the canted Bushmaster site club. I'm glad it seems they are willing to fix yours, they would not fix mine.

I bought a PRI flip-up FSB for my M4.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:15:08 PM EDT
mine was canted also, bm fixed it. it sucked though having to send a brand new gun back to have it worked on.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:19:00 PM EDT
p.s. mine was an a2, not a3.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:03:41 PM EDT
this is going to be a dumb question but just becasue i've seen people do it before... are you moving the sight the right way?

if so another wonderful story of guns that are "just as good as a colt"
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:33:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 3:34:09 PM EDT by Esq1118]
Don't feel bad man. I bought two Bushmasters last summer and both had canted front sights. No problem. Called them up and they paid for shipping in. The only problem was that my 16 inch M4 upper was fixed the first time and the 14.5 inch M4 upper took 3 tries. But they paid for overnight shipping back to them everytime. Great customer service staff. My case was a big "shit happens" problem, but they took care of me. Of course on the 14.5 inch I had to call the President of Bushmaster, Mr Richard Dyke and he had Mr Jim Eden the main gunsmith install a Yankee Hill flip down front sight for my troubles no charge. Then they took it to their range for a work out. Dead on it was and it came back with their sight in target. It took 5 months but they still fixed it. No yelling or arguing was needed. Just make sure you are nice to the CS staff while on the phone. If you call up cursing and yelling then it would do you no good if you want them to take care of you.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:46:37 PM EDT
hmmm i guess what your saying is that colt has never fucked up?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:11:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HillBillySniper:
hmmm i guess what your saying is that colt has never fucked up?



Oh they have, but in my case-

Colt-10

Bushmaster-0

All 10 of my Colts, current and past, never had a problem. My one Bushmaster..did.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:41:59 PM EDT
no i'm saying every brand will fuck up, and all these "as good as a colt" guns do it a whole hell of alot more than the gun they're just as good as.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:46:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snaps:
no i'm saying every brand will fuck up, and all these "as good as a colt" guns do it a whole hell of alot more than the gun they're just as good as.



Hell...any one of my current Colts and past Colts will run rings around a Bushmaster, in preformance and quality. I know, I have each and the Colt is head and shoulders above my Shitmaster..
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:54:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4macro:
I bought my first AR last week, its a m4 style bushmaster 16" w/ A3 removable carry handle.

I took it to the range yesterday to try to zero it in and it was way off paper both high and left. I had to turn the windage knob nearly as far as it would go to correct the issue. I was also shooting about 12" high at 50 yards (range only has 7/15/50/100 yard targets). Bushmaster told me to send it to them, but I wanted to find out if anybody has expeienced similar issues? Only guy I have talked to said that his was perfect right out of the box.

I was also told different people site them in different ways (depending on how they look at the front site). I assume most peope line up the top of the front site in the center of the peep site?

Thanks for the help.



Bushmasters are famous for their canted FSB... If you don't want the hassles involved with shipping it to Bushmaster for repairs, then beat the FSB into alignment with a mallet... All it takes is a couple good whacks and shes straight... I do it all the time...
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:59:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vegas1037:
I had to install a taller front sight post to get my groups down at 25 meters. I was shooting 6" high. I was told that a lot of A3 style rifles, from various manufacturers, ship with the shorter post. I don't know enough to know if that's true or not but my old post was adjusted up so far to that it wiggled. The new longer post fixed my problems. Windage is a whole different problem though and I hope you get it taken care of. good luck.



That's another one of their sight alignment problems... They screwed up and used a mil-spec carry handle instead of a commercial one... Here's a thread that explains why you had to change the FSP... www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=265947
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:00:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:

Originally Posted By Snaps:
no i'm saying every brand will fuck up, and all these "as good as a colt" guns do it a whole hell of alot more than the gun they're just as good as.



Hell...any one of my current Colts and past Colts will run rings around a Bushmaster, in preformance and quality. I know, I have each and the Colt is head and shoulders above my Shitmaster..



well sir, my first AR was a bushmaster, it was given away to a family member, the rest have been colts. I'd consider armalite and love to own a KAC. That's it though.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:01:05 PM EDT
Don't get me wrong guys, I have nothing against Bushmaster, just stating facts... Only thing I can figure is that Stevie Wonder is their quality control inspector...
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:10:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:
Don't get me wrong guys, I have nothing against Bushmaster, just stating facts... Only thing I can figure is that Stevie Wonder is their quality control inspector...



NO NO NO it's TIMMAH!!!!!!!!!!!

and i don't really have anything against them either, I just won't own another one. They've done amazing things with marketing and i have nothing but respect for them for that. When you can convince the buying public that your inferior product is just as good or even better than the product it wants to be your company deserves credit.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:13:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snaps:

Originally Posted By theshootersden:
Don't get me wrong guys, I have nothing against Bushmaster, just stating facts... Only thing I can figure is that Stevie Wonder is their quality control inspector...hr


NO NO NO it's TIMMAH!!!!!!!!!!! have



LOL timmaaaah!!! is funny as fuck!!!
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:21:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Snaps:

Originally Posted By Dog1:

Originally Posted By Snaps:
no i'm saying every brand will fuck up, and all these "as good as a colt" guns do it a whole hell of alot more than the gun they're just as good as.



Hell...any one of my current Colts and past Colts will run rings around a Bushmaster, in preformance and quality. I know, I have each and the Colt is head and shoulders above my Shitmaster..



well sir, my first AR was a bushmaster, it was given away to a family member, the rest have been colts. I'd consider armalite and love to own a KAC. That's it though.



My Bushmaster is such a dissapointment I will not sell it or pass it down to my son...I might strip it for parts...or use it for a boat anchor..
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:04:13 PM EDT
Range report

Well I sited it in at approx 25 meters. It took an additional 3 clicks on the front site to bring the groups where they needed to be. I did not completely run out of adjustment on the rear site, just came real close. After I sited it, my dad came to shoot it (owned 2 colts in the past) and hit bullseye all 3 times. I then shot a make-shift target we set up that was 18x18 inches and 188 yards away. Hit it every shot. I just dont like the rear site being adjusted that far over. But dont feel like sending my new gun back to the mfg. Not sure what I will do just yet.

Do you have to adjust the sites every time you remove the carry handle or do they stay accurate?
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