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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/10/2004 7:40:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 7:41:42 AM EST by Wave]
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:58:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 2:38:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 3:03:59 PM EST
Hey wave,
I'm running the Jard 3 lb single stage on mine.
Been working fine.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 5:18:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wave:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
If you go the 2-stage, which I wouldn't recommend in a big bore carbine......



Why is that



Link Posted: 10/11/2004 2:45:53 AM EST
I'm running the RRA 2 stage with no problems. I'm also curious as to why it's inappropriate for a carbine big bore.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 2:48:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 2:50:01 AM EST by gotm4]
RRA 2 stage with reduced power Yellow Tavern springs which yields about a 3lb pull.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:49:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:32:09 AM EST
I took one off mine as well. I just thought it was an answer in search of a question with the Beowulf. Minute of hog is my requirement.

Doc
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:13:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:21:54 PM EST by gotm4]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Well let me clarify my thoughts on the matter:

The big bore carbines are not really designed for bench shooting or superior accuracy from fixed positions. The 2-stage triggers maximize your ability to break clean shots, but they come at a durability and reliability deficit. I agree they work and work VERY well when precision is key. However they have the nasty tendency, especially the 2-stage Armalite and RRA based triggers, to lose their second stage.




Interesting since the Steyr Scout uses a 2 stage trigger and was designed for rapid accurate fire from up to a .376 Steyr which makes the .50 Beowulf look like a pussycat.

I think its more a software problem than a hardware problem. i.e. A really good shooter shooting a DA pistol can outshoot a SA shooter, take Ernest Landgon who shot a SIG 220ST (.45 ACP) who won the IDPA nationals in 2003 beat Rob Leatham who was shooting a 1911 (in .45 ACP) also every see Jerry Miculek shoot a DA revolver?

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:33:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:37:06 PM EST by SHIVAN]
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:06:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:10:10 PM EST by gotm4]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

#1) The Steyr and the AR have more things different; than they do in common.

#2) I don't see multiple people claiming multiple thousands of rounds with a Steyr rifle in .308, let alone .376 Steyr. Further I don't then see them claiming that they have had trigger "failures" where the first and second stage become one stage. There is a reason why WOP is tuning RRA triggers....and it's not all to do with getting a "better" feel. It's about making them have a longer servicable life. Ever seen the threads where someone's RRA 2-stage is now one stage and they are pissed? I have, it's usually a weekly thing.

Do what you want....they will work...I simply recommend against them unless you are going to be shooting your big bore carbine for precision.



#1.) I didn't say that they had anything in common; you jumped to that conclusion. I did say that a Steyr Scout has a 2 stage trigger which is opposite of what you're saying that they good for, you said referring to 2 stage triggers "I agree they work and work VERY well when precision is key".

Steyr Scouts using 2 stage triggers aren't made for BR shooting if you're at all familiar with them. They're made for snap shooting for up to about 300 yds. In a good shooters hands they do damn well off the bench BTW.

I'm running a RRA 2 stage w/reduced power Yellow Tavern springs in my .50 Beowulf with a Trijicon Reflex II on a ARMS mount so I guess I'm just un-cool and not in the know. I paid $70 my cost from Brownells, if it lasts 1000 rounds I'll still be happy and the deer will still be just as dead thank you very much.

#2.) I didn't claim that multiple people have shot thousands of rounds through Steyrs failure free; again you jumped to that conclusion. Man made shit breaks it's a fact. 2 stage triggers seem tp work well regardless in Steyr Scout rifles and unless there is some breaking news that I haven't seen. If they last 1K or 50K in a Steyr Scout at which point does the 2 stage trigger become wrong for the rifle?

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:10:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:14:58 PM EST by SHIVAN]
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:14:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:17:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:18:20 PM EST by SHIVAN]
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:18:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Interesting. Did you change MY opinion that I wouldn't recommend a 2-stage in a big-bore carbine?

When you come up with that argument, IM me -- I'd be interested to hear about it.

Currently, short of the KAC, 2-stage triggers seem to be losing their 2nd stage more and more often. Especially the RRA and Armalite versions -- which is ON TOPIC.

In fact, the reason I won't buy the regular RRA is because one of mine "quit" on me.





Como? Here's what you said:


Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
If you go the 2-stage, which I wouldn't recommend in a big bore carbine...... I would select a RRA White Oak Precision tuned model --- available from ADCO.



I'm arguing with you that a 2 stage is good on a rifle/carbine that would be used for quick shooting not BR shooting. Do you have some other opinion now or something?

IIRC wasn't it a KAC trigger that was going AUTO on you in an AR10 or did LRT tell me wrong? Your just a host of bad luck, you have all kinds of equipment failures, KAC trigger, RRA triggers, LMT issues It's late go to bed Ed!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:21:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:21:58 PM EST by Wave]
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:25:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:26:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:36:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wave:
I'll leave the arguing to the two of you guys, now to find a place with the McCormicks in stock...Brownells(with discount) is out.



Just keep checking back with them, Midway Has them, most are out of stock. The one above the single stage curved mag is in stock they have 2, dealer cost is $35 less than retail. I don't know if they'll give an LE discount or not.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:15:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Well let me clarify my thoughts on the matter:

The big bore carbines are not really designed for bench shooting or superior accuracy from fixed positions. The 2-stage triggers maximize your ability to break clean shots, but they come at a durability and reliability deficit. I agree they work and work VERY well when precision is key. However they have the nasty tendency, especially the 2-stage Armalite and RRA based triggers, to lose their second stage.


Well damn... I wish I'd'a known about the RRA failures a little sooner. I have about 250 rounds through the rifle since I installed it. Any ideas on mean time between failure for the RRA?
Just to be on the safe side, I think I'm gonna take it out of the 'wulf and put it into my Oly .223 instead and reinstall the factory RRA standard trigger (after a little polishing work).
I use my 'wulf for hog hunting, mostly, but would hate to have a failure of the trigger in the field or at the range.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:22:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 3:24:22 AM EST by Wave]
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:56:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By FB41:
I use my 'wulf for hog hunting, mostly, but would hate to have a failure of the trigger in the field or at the range.



Don't sweat it. The failure mode is that the trigger turns into a one-stage trigger. The gun still goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger. Just don't point it at your hunting buddy while you take up the first stage.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:16:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 6:31:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
I'm not sure how widespread the problem, but it seems to be happening more and more....



I have an Armalite 2-stage trigger that has lost it's second stage, it's ~5 years old, and lasted about 3000 rounds before it turned into a single stage. *shrug*
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 7:24:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Griz:

Originally Posted By FB41:
I use my 'wulf for hog hunting, mostly, but would hate to have a failure of the trigger in the field or at the range.



Don't sweat it. The failure mode is that the trigger turns into a one-stage trigger. The gun still goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger. Just don't point it at your hunting buddy while you take up the first stage.



Exactly, it won't fail and make the gun inoperable, the two stages simply become one. Which sucks because you normally pay $100 or more for the 2-stages.

I'm not sure how widespread the problem, but it seems to be happening more and more....

This may be a function of almost all RRA complete rifles sold with 2-stage triggers for some time so there are a lot of them out there being used and abused.



Even so, I wouldn't want it to happen. If it fails at the wrong time and goes bang early, I have a wounded hog- and they're not exactly friendly when they AIN'T been shot- and I never point at my hunting buddy (even if the sumbitch kills a bigger hog).
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 7:26:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Griz:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
I'm not sure how widespread the problem, but it seems to be happening more and more....



I have an Armalite 2-stage trigger that has lost it's second stage, it's ~5 years old, and lasted about 3000 rounds before it turned into a single stage. *shrug*



Right, some guys are doing 3000rds on a lower in a weekend...... Wish it were me, but just no time...
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:01:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Griz:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
I'm not sure how widespread the problem, but it seems to be happening more and more....



I have an Armalite 2-stage trigger that has lost it's second stage, it's ~5 years old, and lasted about 3000 rounds before it turned into a single stage. *shrug*



Right, some guys are doing 3000rds on a lower in a weekend...... Wish it were me, but just no time...



My point was just that I don't think it's an RRA problem, I think it's a fundamental problem with the commonly seen AR 2-stage trigger design.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:03:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Griz:
My point was just that I don't think it's an RRA problem, I think it's a fundamental problem with the commonly seen AR 2-stage trigger design.



I agree with that too....
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:11:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Right, some guys are doing 3000rds on a lower in a weekend...... Wish it were me, but just no time...



If you can shoot 3K .50 Beowulf, .499 L-W, .458 SOCOM in a weekend you would be one wealthy MoFo!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:30:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By gotm4:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Right, some guys are doing 3000rds on a lower in a weekend...... Wish it were me, but just no time...



If you can shoot 3K .50 Beowulf, .499 L-W, .458 SOCOM in a weekend you would be one wealthy MoFo!



Two pins out 5.56 upper on.....two pins out 458 SOCOM on.......two pins out.....50 Beowulf upper on....two pins.......

Well you get the idea.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:41:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By gotm4:
If you can shoot 3K .50 Beowulf, .499 L-W, .458 SOCOM in a weekend you would be one wealthy MoFo!



Two pins out 5.56 upper on.....two pins out 458 SOCOM on.......two pins out.....50 Beowulf upper on....two pins.......

Well you get the idea.



Yeah I know, my .50 Beo is on a dedicated RRA lower. I'm just saying that would be DAMN expensive. That would be between $1.5-2K for 3K rounds even for me reloading .50Beo. I've shot just over 200 rounds within a year and to me that's a lot and don't expect to shoot much more than 500 rounds through it in the next year on average. Now 5.56mm on the other hand 4-5K per year average, 4K of .45 and about 5-6K of 9mm on average.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:09:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By gotm4:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By gotm4:
If you can shoot 3K .50 Beowulf, .499 L-W, .458 SOCOM in a weekend you would be one wealthy MoFo!



Two pins out 5.56 upper on.....two pins out 458 SOCOM on.......two pins out.....50 Beowulf upper on....two pins.......

Well you get the idea.hr


Yeah I know, my .50 Beo is on a dedicated RRA lower. I'm just saying that would be DAMN expensive. That would be between $1.5-2K for 3K rounds even for me reloading .50Beo. hot


Never mind the money... your shoulder would be ruined from all the recoil!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:33:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:18:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 2:20:55 PM EST by gotm4]

Originally Posted By cdr680:
Never mind the money... your shoulder would be ruined from all the recoil!



I once asked about reducing the recoil on the Beowulf and SHIVAN to me to 'cowboy the fuck up'. Oh well the ACE stock really makes it more comfortable to shoot. The Colt CS stock I had on it is just way too damn sharp and I don't care what anyone says I'm not into pain. I shot about 50 rounds the other day it my shoulder didn't even hurt at all afterward. My ACE has the .5" rubber recoil pad on it. I'm also going to try a Wolff +10% action spring to see if that'll help too, I had a carbine stock and used a Wolff spring and H buffer and you could tell a huge difference between the springs and regular carbine buffer.

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:30:32 PM EST
Pretty soon I'll be running the 458 SOCOM on F/A.......should be a hoot. Not sure I will get it to 3000rds in a weekend but.....

I run a collapsible stock with no recoil pad, but then again I used to routinely shoot 200-400rds of 12ga clays loads....1oz #8's @ factory rated 1350fps.

I also used to shoot several boxes of 444 Marlin Light Mag in one sitting.

Recoil is subjective.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 6:46:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wave:
Not unless you were NFL sized!



Well I am NFL sized and it has the recoil is very noticable....thats why I went with a MGI and ACE full lenght, Its not too bad now, but I'm going to get the Wolff +10%

Bigant
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 7:23:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 7:24:06 PM EST by Griz]

Originally Posted By Bigant:

Originally Posted By Wave:
Not unless you were NFL sized!



Well I am NFL sized and it has the recoil is very noticable....thats why I went with a MGI and ACE full lenght, Its not too bad now, but I'm going to get the Wolff +10%

Bigant



The bigger you are, the more recoil should hurt. If you're very light, you can "roll with the punches" and spread out the recoil energy. If you are very massive, the gun can't get you moving as quickly, so the front of your shoulder has to absorb all of the recoil energy in a very short period of time, kind of like what happens when a meat tenderizer strikes a steak
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