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Posted: 11/15/2005 11:21:38 AM EDT
I'm looking to put a single point sling on my AR. I've already decided on the sling but I was just curious as what to look for and compare when it comes to the attachment endplate. Right now I'm looking at the Daniel Defense and the Vltor. What's the difference?

Thanks.

Link Posted: 11/15/2005 4:52:46 PM EDT
I'm running the DD Burnsed loop on my duty carbine, and the DD mount that doesn't require pulling the castle nut on my training carbine. I would get you a link or the name of it, but the DD website is horrible and isn't playing well (again).

I'm quite happy with both.

Link Posted: 11/15/2005 5:08:46 PM EDT
what stock are you using?

i am using the yhm plate on my collapsable stocks for the hk hook
Link Posted: 11/15/2005 5:27:13 PM EDT
I can attest to the quality of the KAC unit....if you can find one.
Link Posted: 11/15/2005 5:28:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2005 5:29:05 PM EDT by Stickman]
Ok, I got a picture up, here is the DD mount on my training carbine. I think its called the EZ mount. The mount also acts as a stop for the stock if you don't use the closed position.

Link Posted: 11/15/2005 5:32:02 PM EDT
Which position does that stock go to, minimum?
Link Posted: 11/15/2005 7:16:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2005 7:17:23 PM EDT by Stickman]
Its an extended tube, but I'm not sure if that answers your question. The way it is set now is what would be one normal position out on a standard stock.
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 5:59:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 7:01:14 AM EDT
I got a DD ambi plate from JTrusty above. I wasn't real thrilled with the idea of Burnsed type attachment, but it really hasn't been a problem. The unit is well made (no sharp edges, good finish, matches profiles of receiver) and staked easily. FWIW, I am using JTrusty's ASP on the plate, and it's been great so far.
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 7:13:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Ok, I got a picture up, here is the DD mount on my training carbine. I think its called the EZ mount. The mount also acts as a stop for the stock if you don't use the closed position.

img414.imageshack.us/img414/5148/p12600088003mu.jpg




never saw that before. looks promising
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 8:24:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
I got a DD ambi plate from JTrusty above. I wasn't real thrilled with the idea of Burnsed type attachment, but it really hasn't been a problem. The unit is well made (no sharp edges, good finish, matches profiles of receiver) and staked easily. FWIW, I am using JTrusty's ASP on the plate, and it's been great so far.



Yeah, I want to get JTrusty's ASP sling....thats where this question originates from. I was curious as to why the DD is more expensive than the Vltor?

From the pics I've seen the DD looks as though it might be a bit more robust.....is this why?

Thanks for all the replies!!

Link Posted: 11/16/2005 9:35:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 11:24:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonghornAR15:
Yeah, I want to get JTrusty's ASP sling....thats where this question originates from. I was curious as to why the DD is more expensive than the Vltor?

From the pics I've seen the DD looks as though it might be a bit more robust.....is this why?

Thanks for all the replies!!



Not familiar with the VLTOR version.
I went with the DD because Jason recommended it. Like I said I really wasn't that thrilled with the idea and I thought it would annoy me with selector manipulation, FA punching, and operating the charging handle. No probs with the selector, a VERY small amount of the weak side sling point hangs over the edge of the FA and actually keeps the edge of my hand from running between the FA and the side of the receiver), and there has been NO prob with the charging handle. That was really my biggest concern as I am one of the types that operates the charging handle on mag changes, loading, and malfs.
The DD unit is relatively thick (which I like, it's not wafer thin but it doesn't take the extension too far out). ALL of the edges are radiused so that the outside edges don't cut the hell out of your hand, gear. or whatever (or snag) and the inside edges don't eventually cut through the strap or catch on it.
And like I said, when it was staked it didn't deform the plate or cut through. An excellent pice of hardware.
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 12:43:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

i am using the yhm plate on my collapsable stocks for the hk hook



I just ordered one of these today, along with an ASP sling.

I'll be back with a review when I get them.
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 1:07:21 PM EDT
I'm looking into a DD endplate and ASP sling as well.
This thread made my mind up - gonna order one as soon as my lower comes in.
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 1:34:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I'm looking into a DD endplate and ASP sling as well.
This thread made my mind up - gonna order one as soon as my lower comes in.


You won't regret it if you're looking for a single point. I need to post my review over in the ASP thread, but I haven't had the time. Just got back from a week in training only to find out that I had to turn around and go to Texarkana on Mon. Today I'm trying to catch up, and I might be able to get it posted tonight. The drive did allow me to do a little more workout on the sling though, so that part worked out.
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 4:57:15 PM EDT
For anyone who is like me, and a visual person, here is a picture of the Daniel Defense single point sling mount on my duty weapon.

Link Posted: 11/17/2005 4:31:39 AM EDT
Here is a link to the Vltor sling plate I've seen: Vltor Sling Plate


Scroll down a little bit to see it.

Link Posted: 11/17/2005 4:34:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
For anyone who is like me, and a visual person, here is a picture of the Daniel Defense single point sling mount on my duty weapon.

img328.imageshack.us/img328/2393/p2020021800mediumres9it.jpg



Awesome picture Stickman (as always). I think the sling and endplate will have to be on my next round of purchases after the holiday's but I'm starting to lean towards the Daniel Defense because it just looks very well made. I like the idea of all the corners being chamfered.

Thanks again!!

Link Posted: 11/17/2005 5:19:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonghornAR15:
Here is a link to the Vltor sling plate I've seen: Vltor Sling Plate


Scroll down a little bit to see it.



Oddly enough I saw that yesterday as I was looking at some other stuff from Mooney's to order. I don't know if they make that in-house or not, but from what I can see the DD unit looks heavier.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 5:24:58 AM EDT
No question that Jason's ASP is the best out there right now (until he comes out with the GEN2).

I already had the VLTOR installed or I would have gone with the DD. I have had no probs with the VLTOR so far - it is low profile and seems to be sling friendly. It was what the local gunstore had in stock for $20 installed. I do not see much difference between the two in reality - but since you will be getting the ASP you might as well get the DD mount from Jason at the same time.

Do not hesitate to order the sling and DD mount from Jason.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 5:55:22 AM EDT
FWIW, RRA has two single point adapters that clamp over the castle nut thereby not requiring disassembly, which some department/armorers do not want done. One is slotted for a strap, the other is a loop for a snap ring. Both are made by MDI for RRA.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 7:03:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:

Originally Posted By LonghornAR15:
Here is a link to the Vltor sling plate I've seen: Vltor Sling Plate


Scroll down a little bit to see it.



Oddly enough I saw that yesterday as I was looking at some other stuff from Mooney's to order. I don't know if they make that in-house or not, but from what I can see the DD unit looks heavier.



Yeah, I'm calling Tom Mooney today to see about stopping by either today or tomorrow hopefully to pick up some stuff. I'll ask to see the Vltor endplate. It looks thinner and lighter, but that may also mean more flimsy. Who knows, maybe not.

And I've seen the clamp on types but I'm looking for one that goes on in place of the stock endplate.

Thanks again for all the comments....I really didn't expect this much traffic here in the sling forum!!

Link Posted: 11/17/2005 7:05:20 AM EDT
Would not worry about the vltor being too flimsy - it is not flimsy at all.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 7:23:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hayseed_40:
Would not worry about the vltor being too flimsy - it is not flimsy at all.


Thanks for the info. I know you said you think the Vltor is sling friendly, but are all the edges nice and smooth/rounded? I'd hate for it to rub through the sling over time.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 9:22:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Ok, I got a picture up, here is the DD mount on my training carbine. I think its called the EZ mount. The mount also acts as a stop for the stock if you don't use the closed position.

img414.imageshack.us/img414/5148/p12600088003mu.jpg



Off- topic but that is a good looking boomstick.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 9:48:21 AM EDT
Thankyou sir.


I'll try to get a better picture of the DD EZ mount in case people are interested in that option.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 10:54:45 AM EDT
Get a GRSC

www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=19712

you cant beat $10 i have one its a nice pieace of metal
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 12:01:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ath0913:
Get a GRSC

www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=19712

you cant beat $10 i have one its a nice pieace of metal




I've got a few of those that were given to me, and I would suggest that after I cleaned them up, and removed the offending edges, and trimmed off the unneeded portions, they were ok. I also resprayed the pieces so the steel wouldn't rust.

What the Daniel Defense offers is an aluminum piece that has well rounded edges. The DD piece takes out the extra work, and allows a drop in piece that you aren't going to have to worry about. Its also dedicated, so extra attachments aren't pushing out where you don't want or need them.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 12:38:48 PM EDT
I have the YHM single-loop plate on my carbine. Had to remove the stock and buffer tube, but its not that difficult.

I like it because I can either clip my single point onto it, or I can use the regular sling for long hikes and such.
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 4:16:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2005 4:20:24 PM EDT by Stickman]
Here is a picture of the above mentioned sling mount. I agree that its cheap, but as I already commented, its got a few downsides that are worth mentioning.

Here is the GRSC sling point in question....


The below picture shows one that I cut down to try on a LW carbine. The sharp inside edges are still apparent, and I've tried to label a few other areas that I think are noteworthy. I suck with powerpoint, so try not to laugh too hard at my attempts.....





Link Posted: 11/17/2005 4:27:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Here is a picture of the above mentioned sling mount. I agree that its cheap, but as I already commented, its got a few downsides that are worth mentioning.

Here is the GRSC sling point in question....
www.brownells.com/Images/Products/100001467.jpg

The below picture shows one that I cut down to try on a LW carbine. The sharp inside edges are still apparent, and I've tried to label a few other areas that I think are noteworthy. I suck with powerpoint, so try not to laugh too hard at my attempts.....


img293.imageshack.us/img293/4990/p2040019800writing7uq.jpg





Thanks for the illustration Stick!! I must admit that your picture taking skills are a tad better than your powerpoint skills, but it got the job done and thats what matters.

I definately don't want all the extras hanging off like that one has. Unless the Vltor impresses me in person then I'm going with the DD.......I'll get to see the Vltor tomorrow morning.

Link Posted: 11/17/2005 4:52:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 10:18:25 AM EDT by Stickman]

Originally Posted By LonghornAR15:

I must admit that your picture taking skills are a tad better than your powerpoint skills, but it got the job done and thats what matters.






I suck with PowerPoint & PS..... but thankyou for being nice!
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 10:26:30 PM EDT
Stick-
I see what you mean. That would make it protrude a bit farther, and if there was a sharp corner, its only a matter of time until it wears thru the sling material.

Mine is just the loop. I think (buut Im not sure) that YHM makes both the styles with just the Loop, and the slot and loop (like in your picture).
Just for reference, I have a Hogue grip on my Carbine. In order for the rear of my thumb to touch the sling adapter loop, I have to slide my hand up the pistol grip to the point that my fingers are no longer in the finger grooves.

If you dont mind me asking, What kind of sling is that on the first pic you posted, and how wide is the webbing? I have been using a single point sling of my own design, but I think I was flawed in my planning.
When I put it together, I thought of it as a sling, as in "all day carry" sling, like a Deer rifle. So, to increase the comfort, I built my sling with 1" nylon for the basic shape of the sling. I stitched a length of 2" Nylon web where it rides on my right shoulder (as it hangs, it hangs to the left of my chest. Im right handed, so I can still get to my holstered sidearm.) to give it more weight distribution.
The most I ever have it on is maybe 5-10 minutes, and in that time, its up and down, transferred to my sidearm, and generally isnt hanging too much.
At this point, I'm just curious as to what other people are using and why.
Thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 3:58:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2005 6:59:04 AM EDT by XM17SBullpup]
Originally Posted By Stickman:
Here is a picture of the above mentioned sling mount. I agree that its cheap, but as I already commented, its got a few downsides that are worth mentioning.

Here is the GRSC sling point in question....
www.brownells.com/Images/Products/100001467.jpg

The below picture shows one that I cut down to try on a LW carbine. The sharp inside edges are still apparent, and I've tried to label a few other areas that I think are noteworthy. I suck with powerpoint, so try not to laugh too hard at my attempts.....


img293.imageshack.us/img293/4990/p2040019800writing7uq.jpg

I have the same one, and would agree with Stickman. Mine is set up with the sling through the slot and I emery clothed the slot to smooth the edge. I have not(I have now) removed the unused hole on the right side, that does get in the way of the forward assist. I do like the ability to use a hook or strap on the left however. I also made my own one point sling. 1 inch web, with a quick release between the mount and the body of the sling. quick to get into and out of, and quick to release the weapon if needed.


Link Posted: 11/18/2005 5:10:49 AM EDT
What Stick said. Those are all of the reasons that I was concerned about getting a sling plate. The DD version is everything that Jason said it would be, with no drawbacks.
As for webbing, it looks like Stick is using the ASP as well, which is 1" webbing. When I first got it I didn't know what to think of the narrow webbing, but I think it helps with the sling sliding across your torso if you shift the weapon to hang farther back when not in use. Wider webbing might not slide aas easily with the increased surface area. Further, the narrow webbing doesn't get caught up as much as wider slings when you're jocked up. It's a lot easier to route a 1" strip around and over mag shingles and pouches and plate cariers than a 1.5 or bigger strip.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 6:52:56 AM EDT
See, when I made mine, I wasnt figuring on the "slide". I put the piece of 2" web on to distribute the weight, because I thought it would be an all-day carry sling. Well, I've since learned that such is not the case, and that the 2" web doesnt make it any more comfortable, and as you said, it gets hung up on a chest harness, plate carrier, tac vest or whatever else you might be wearing.

Thanks for the input. I guess I'll have to get some more 1"-1.25" web from the local backpacking outfitter.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 8:22:02 AM EDT
Travis,

If you don't mind the wait, give me a few hours and I'll post up another option that can be done with the ASP sling (www.jtrusty.com).

There are a few reasons why I am using the ASP single point sling, and instead of writing a long list, I'll bring up one point that may help. The webbing that is used is 1" tubular webbing, which is the same stuff I use for rock climbing. It is thin, but its has massive amounts of strength, and the tubular design of the webbing prevents kinks and twists while still keeping it comfortable. Usually, a wide strap is needed for comfort, but a wide piece of webbing usually twisted up if you have to throw it on in a hurry.


I'll get take the pics of another configuration in a bit and show them to you.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 8:35:05 AM EDT
Don't forget the Tango Down PR4





Link Posted: 11/18/2005 11:38:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2005 11:39:08 AM EDT by TravisM1]
This is sort of "Ghetto-ish", but couldnt a normal rear plate be drilled and tapped for a sling sivel stud to get the same effect as the TD adapter? EDIT- I guess not, as the TD has the attachment points on the sides as well.

Stick- I have all night. I'll check back. I may just end up buying one.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 1:32:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
See, when I made mine, I wasnt figuring on the "slide". I put the piece of 2" web on to distribute the weight, because I thought it would be an all-day carry sling. Well, I've since learned that such is not the case, and that the 2" web doesnt make it any more comfortable, and as you said, it gets hung up on a chest harness, plate carrier, tac vest or whatever else you might be wearing.

Thanks for the input. I guess I'll have to get some more 1"-1.25" web from the local backpacking outfitter.


I had some of the same concerns about comfort, but when the sling is over everything else, you don't feel it. As for sliding, when I'm using it it will rotate across my torso depending on if it is shouldered, hanging ready, or hanging and pushed out of the way to do something else. Or even in a vehicle.
Even without it being over a lot of other gear, the webbing still doesn't bite in.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 2:08:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
I had some of the same concerns about comfort, but when the sling is over everything else, you don't feel it. As for sliding, when I'm using it it will rotate across my torso depending on if it is shouldered, hanging ready, or hanging and pushed out of the way to do something else. Or even in a vehicle.
Even without it being over a lot of other gear, the webbing still doesn't bite in.



When you say it slides across your torso, do you mean the sling itself, or the "tail" that attaches to the rifle slides across the sling?
I ask, because I was looking at the site for the ASP slings, and the way I read it, the part of the sling around your torso stays put, while the "tail" and the rifle slide on the sling.

I guess having other gear on would kind of buffer the weight distribution from the sling.
And one thing I like about the single point sling, is its usefulness in a vehicle.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 2:19:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 2:35:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
When you say it slides across your torso, do you mean the sling itself, or the "tail" that attaches to the rifle slides across the sling?


The whole rig slides. The tail is a detachable tab that attaches to the rifle and ends with a side lock.


I ask, because I was looking at the site for the ASP slings, and the way I read it, the part of the sling around your torso stays put, while the "tail" and the rifle slide on the sling.


Nope, the tab stays place relative to the sling.


I guess having other gear on would kind of buffer the weight distribution from the sling.
And one thing I like about the single point sling, is its usefulness in a vehicle.


Yup. You can have it either between your legs or slid over to the weak side muzzle down.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 3:28:28 PM EDT
JTrusty- Thanks for the input. Nice to see the manufacturer chiming in to answer questions.

m24- Thanks again. I'm learning a lot from this thread.

Link Posted: 11/18/2005 3:41:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 3:42:41 PM EDT
I love my DD burnsed loop!

The ONLY drawback is with my CMT tube, the stock doesn't latch in the shortest position.
The DD is a butthair too thick to close all the way. If the CMT tube had about .125" more threads,
this probably wouldn't be an issue, which it really isn't anyway...!

Link Posted: 11/18/2005 4:52:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
I love my DD burnsed loop!

The ONLY drawback is with my CMT tube, the stock doesn't latch in the shortest position.
The DD is a butthair too thick to close all the way. If the CMT tube had about .125" more threads,
this probably wouldn't be an issue, which it really isn't anyway...!




Is it possible that you have the threads in an extra turn? I've used the DD on a few different CMT stocks and not had that as a problem.

What make is the receiver?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 5:08:33 PM EDT
Hey Stick!

It's an Ameetec lower.

If I back it out 1 rotation, it'll lock, but the buffer detent BARELY has any material holding it down.
Everything works fine with the factory plate, so my only guess is the tube is a hair short.
My non-spec 6 pos tube lets either plate facilitate full lock, so...??

Really not a big deal, as the stock would still work collapsed...but that's a bit short for normal use!
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 8:37:52 PM EDT
Barely holding is how many of mine are....



I got caught up in a gun deal today that lasted much longer that I had hoped, so I'll try to complete the pictures in the morning.
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 7:08:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
JTrusty- Thanks for the input. Nice to see the manufacturer chiming in to answer questions.

m24- Thanks again. I'm learning a lot from this thread.



Dude, its why we are here.
As for Jason chiming in, I posted some questions in the ASP thread and he IMd me with some answers and offers. Once I decided to order, the commo continued. Order from him and you'll be further impressed. He's a very hands-on type with customers and his level of service is a major factor in why I went with the ASP as opposed to some other single points.
And Stick is a great source of info and pics. I think he has 87 different ARs set up.
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