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11/9/2018 9:21:38 PM
Posted: 2/28/2005 4:40:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/28/2005 6:23:48 PM EST by Hank_Rearden1]
Okay... I had a debate today with a friend about proper sight picture.

He insists that it is more appropriate to position the target above the front sight post (i.e. the 6:00 hold).. I however was taught (and believe) that it is better that the top of the front post should cover the the target such that the top of the sight post is lined up with the center of the target (center hold). For example, if aiming for CoM on a human shaped target, the "head" would be above the post. In contrast, under my buddy's method, CoM would require that the top of the post be positioned below the "chest-line".

Some time ago, I saw graphics posted here illustrating the two approaches. If anyone has these graphics, please post them here.

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

ETA my illustrations:





Link Posted: 2/28/2005 4:46:56 PM EST
At 50 yds impact is right on top of the front sight,picture a lolipop but the post cutting the circle in half,right to point of aim.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 4:49:48 PM EST
I say behind, it's just how I learned to shoot with all of dad's rifles with open sights. I sighted my AR the same way. I put the tip of the post in the circle, the bullet should hit dead center.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 4:53:39 PM EST
Shooting at a round target, top of site post should cut the circle in half. At least that's how I do it.

Or you can shoot from the hip, national match shooters do this all the time

WIZZO
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 5:03:30 PM EST
Depends on who you ask and how you were trained

link

follow the link, one is the army way and the other is the marine way, I forget which is which

I like to shoot with the top of the post on point of impact
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 5:10:40 PM EST
I shoot center mass with the spot i am shooting at right on top of the front sight post. That is how I was taught in boot at Benning. I just dont see how covering your target with the post gives as precise as aim.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 5:47:39 PM EST
Ya make a lollipop. From there ya can adjust your relief according to where the round is hitting. If you place your front post insid the black target and youre not hitting exactly where ya want its harder to adjust your sights to put the round where ya want to because you its more difficult to judge where youre actually sighting in at.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 5:51:06 PM EST
The lower picture is correct.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 5:51:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/28/2005 5:53:32 PM EST by Khemicol]
I'm going with Smithy on this one. Shooting at right on top of the front sight post as stated above. That's also the way I learned in the Army.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 5:54:21 PM EST
I do it like the 2nd pic,
What do you have against Smurfs anyway?
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 6:02:22 PM EST
Buy an Aimpoint and dont worry bout it
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 6:07:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/28/2005 6:13:01 PM EST by Hank_Rearden1]

Originally Posted By Khemicol:
I'm going with Smithy on this one. Shooting at right on top of the front sight post as stated above. That's also the way I learned in the Army.



Hey welcome to the board!


Com'n Marines help me out!
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 6:09:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/28/2005 6:12:06 PM EST by Hank_Rearden1]

Originally Posted By stryfox:
I do it like the 2nd pic,
What do you have against Smurfs anyway?



I was waiting for someone to mention that!!! Note that in my illustrations that they are assuming the French combat position.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 6:15:13 PM EST
The link showed the proper way to zero a combat rifle on the right and a match setting on the left. The one on the left only works is you are shooting at bull's eye's of a known size at a known distance.

The round should impact at the top of the front sight.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 7:05:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hank_Rearden1:


Note that in my illustrations that they are assuming the French combat position.






Now thats funny
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 7:09:07 PM EST
Who's Rules of Engagement are we using, here, anyway?
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 7:16:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/28/2005 7:20:47 PM EST by Wingman26]
The six oclock hold is for target shooting, at a known target size, at a known distance, with a known standard target load, I used to shoot Bullseye Pistol competition, that's where you use the six o'clock hold. If you are target shooting in competition it is the only way to go, but in the real world the top surface of the front sight should be your point of impact.

Depending on the range, a six o'clock hold will usually impact 6 to 8" above the point of aim, your sights are adjusted so you aim at the bottom of the black, and the impact should be in the X ring, it is the standard practice in target shooting.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 6:10:09 AM EST
We covered this in depth at the 6th Army marksmanship school 7 years ago. Lots of us from the old army had been drilled to take a 6:00 hold. We were taught to take a dead on hold with the M-16. I was a competition shooter and my scores were already good. But I saw my offhand scores go up a couple of points and two more in the X ring. At the 600 meter line I did better with the old 6:00 hold from a prone position.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 6:46:23 AM EST
"Lolly poppin it" is what I was taught. Put the circle on top of the front post..... The second drawing looks right to me.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 7:46:01 AM EST
I've always used sight picture #1 shown above...covering the area I want to hit with the top of the front sight post has always worked for me, and made the most sense to me...
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 3:36:43 PM EST
thanks for the feed back guys!
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 12:26:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By threefeathers:
We covered this in depth at the 6th Army marksmanship school 7 years ago. Lots of us from the old army had been drilled to take a 6:00 hold. We were taught to take a dead on hold with the M-16. I was a competition shooter and my scores were already good. But I saw my offhand scores go up a couple of points and two more in the X ring. At the 600 meter line I did better with the old 6:00 hold from a prone position.



What are you saying? "Do what works"
Are you crazy or something?

Regards,
Mild Bill
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 12:32:40 PM EST
Lower pic is correct, but man your sights look really jacked up.
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 12:35:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
The six oclock hold is for target shooting, at a known target size, at a known distance, with a known standard target load, I used to shoot Bullseye Pistol competition, that's where you use the six o'clock hold. If you are target shooting in competition it is the only way to go, but in the real world the top surface of the front sight should be your point of impact.


Exactly.

6:00 holds are for target shooting at big black dots.

For combat you are better off with a Center-of-Mass type of hold (where the top edge of the front sight bisects the target).
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 12:43:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By YardDogOne:

Originally Posted By Hank_Rearden1:

Note that in my illustrations that they are assuming the French combat position.




Now thats funny



YES it is!!!!!

and I have always sited my targets as is illustrated with the second French soldier.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:15:44 AM EST
I've always used the center hold, as described in the link posted above. I've never encountered any of the other holds, honestly.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:23:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By model927:
At 50 yds impact is right on top of the front sight,picture a lolipop but the post cutting the circle in half,right to point of aim.



ditto
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:15:41 AM EST
IMHO, which ever way you choose to learn make sure it is the same for all your transition weapons. Meaning, when you switch between rifles, carbine, shotgun, pistol, and etc. it would be a good idea to make sure your sight pictures are the same. By doing it this way your brain has to only become hardwired to one sight picture; when the pressures on you will be thankful for this.
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