Hi there,

I am planning to build a Carbine with a 16" M4 Barrel that looks tactical but is practical.
The main field of operation will be the range at IPSC-matches. No real field at all.

I allready have some good ideas in mind but I still don´t know what muzzelbrake to take.

The Brake/Comp should keep the gun flat on target, tam the flash and the recoil...

Comp´s like the fist-sized JP-Eliminator are way to big....may be they work well but as you know it should at least look tasty Hope
Thank you

There’s no way I’m showing my toys to the German Police…..especially in Berlin!  

“Berlin….ja,ja…..Berlin”!

Since flash hiders are legal in Germany, I would go that route.
Living in a flash hider ban country, I have seen some comps and I am
afraid that the "best" muzzle break for serious purposes- featuring
flash hiding abilities without the noise & blast- has yet to be invented.
My brother has a KKF fake flashhider on his AUG-Z. All the look without
the blast & flash.

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/1371.htm

My setup with a fake flashhider:

He is no heHey does anyone also have picture with the JP BC Tactical Comp on a M4 or heavy style barrel?

http://www.jprifles.com/photos/BCTC.jpg

Hey RAB-Man,

thanks for the back-up hippie.gif I know I can count on you.have
I had some good friends in the CSC/4th. 502nd...miss them.
And I don´t want to see your toy wich you can keep in your pantys h

okay, so it's not from a AR

I think it was Tim Lau who wrote that the "quiet control brake" is still
very loud- as is the Troy Medieval brake, which I hoped to be the
solution for fh ban countries.

Phantom Comp/Brake Model 5M1 with agressive front end
Model 5M2 with smooth front end is also available

Yankee Hill Machine Co. website link


A quote from YHM's website:

"Designed with Phantom styling in mind but works as a muzzle brake and compensator. This 5 port design has no downward facing port which helps eliminate dust problems when shooting in the prone position. The 5M2 features a “no snag” design that allows the user to navigate rough terrain without interference, while the 5M1 maintains the agressive front end for hand-to-hand situations. For threaded barrels only. Includes crush washer."

Note: This is a new muzzle brake and compensator model and I havn't seen any actual test reviews about it. Reviews should be appearing as more shooters acquires it.

I have A2s FS and currently building a 16" recon upper which I'm planning to intall a Vortex.

The plan is to get a 14.5 and add a 2 inch comp...may be.
I am not so sure about that...have
@twonami:
M1A-Scout!...?

@Alpha:
Yeah I have seen this CQB-style comp...very nice and agressiv looking I like that....so has one fired the Phantom 5M1 without the downward port ?

Quoted: Hi there, I am planning to build a Carbine with a 16" M4 Barrel that looks tactical but is practical. The main field of operation will be the range at IPSC-matches. No real field at all. I allready have some good ideas in mind but I still don´t know what muzzelbrake to take. The Brake/Comp should keep the gun flat on target, tam the flash and the recoil... Comp´s like the fist-sized JP-Eliminator are way to big....may be they work well but as you know it should at least look tasty Hope you guys have some good ideas and PICTURES for me. Thank you

================
Gruess aus Bayern!
I would write auf deutsche, but for the benefit of the other forum members...

I was the G2 there right after the collapse.  Ran the Marienfelde Refugee (ahem!) Center (weisst du schon?) there before then and in the early 70's was in Det A (another ahem) as enlisted.  Yeah, lucky SOB. The three best tours in 34 years in uniform (still going).  Sure miss the place (and embarassed to admit the times as well) and the great times we shared with our German friends at Rose Range.  Had great times with the Berliner Polizei and your BND buds. It was a real trip working with the former NVA as they integrated into BW East back then.   I digress....

Anyway, for minimum bucks, consider the SEI brake at about $28.00 USD www.smithenterprise.com.  Works like a champ.  Our Army "Special Mission Units - SMU" (read "Delta" sic) picked up hundreds of them a couple of years ago for their CQB apps.  Very happy.   The Philippine Army now has them standardized on their GPMGs, as well.  In all fairness, I haven't tried MSTN's quiet brake.  My focus is still on purely military applications and the need for MB's in service apps is limited, as you can see.

Now as for taming flash and recoil -- our boys at Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey have been searching for that as the Holy Grail for years to no avail.  Believe me, I was just there a few weeks ago discussing the matter.   Something you may also want to look at is this new Noveske system.  Haven't tried it yet, but some others might chime in.  

Can't wait for the Christmas Season to begin -- will definitely hit the fests in Spandau and on the Ku'damm this year.  

Mach6      

Here's one type of comp that is not very bulky and works well. Was made one day by a co-worker.



mach6, will you attend the Expo next week at Heidelberg ?

Tuukka,  No time...unfortuantely.  Seems like I'm everywhere else, though.  What's the show, EWA or???

@Mach6:

thanks for the "compliements" to our City. I also miss the old Times a little...we had a Wall aound us and all the evil had to stay out...now they even can have a Party here.
When did you left Det.A ? I meet some back in `92...nice guy´s...but the face-furh of 5th.Grp. from Böblingen in Mittenwald...damn was that cold !

Rose Range is still the place to go...9-50m Ranges, 4-25 ranges...2 with turning targets a 100m and a 300m range...no walking anymore all the rifle ranges have electronic target screens now.

As for the comp....

I checked on the MSTN page but I could not finde the brake on the pic....but I found another one...often seen on the barret 6.8SPC rifles...you know ?...the one with just a wide, single port going from left ro right.
Noveske ? Is this the big Krinko-style brake ?

What do you mean by telling that tamming recoil AND flash is not posible ?
So when I shot a recoil-brake (M193 ammo) I will go blind ????
What is it like ?
The only long I have shot for allmost the last 10 years is my shotty and MP5.

Quoted: @Mach6: thanks for the "compliements" to our City. I also miss the old Times a little...we had a Wall aound us and all the evil had to stay out...now they even can have a Party here. When did you left Det.A ? I meet some back in `92...nice guy´s...but the face-fur Also in `92 I played with some old farts of 5th.Grp. from Böblingen in Mittenwald...damn was that cold ! Rose Range is still the place to go...9-50m Ranges, 4-25 ranges...2 with turning targets a 100m and a 300m range...no walking anymore all the rifle ranges have electronic target screens now. As for the comp.... I checked on the MSTN page but I could not finde the brake on the pic....but I found another one...often seen on the barret 6.8SPC rifles...you know ?...the one with just a wide, single port going from left ro right. Noveske ? Is this the big Krinko-style brake ? What do you mean by telling that tamming recoil AND flash is not posible ? So when I shot a recoil-brake (M193 ammo) I will go blind ???? What is it like ? The only long I have shot for allmost the last 10 years is my shotty and MP5. send more pix

=======================
Berlin-Polizei,
'92, eh? I left Det. A in '74!  Now those were some craaaaazy days!  Ya know we also had an officer in our unit at the time that was the only American officer ever to wear the Iron Cross (EK.1).  No kidding, he was just a lad in the final assault on Berlin and wrecked a bunch of Soviet tanks along the Seelowe Heights to the East.  He was "old" back in the early seventies.  What a stud!  Remember training with some pretty hardcore colleagues of yours from Charlottenburg and Kreuzberg.  

Face fur in '92....hah!  In my day we had to keep the GI haircut.  The only way you could tell we were a little....different from the regular grunts at McNair was the Ranger patrolling cap we wore, the vast preponderance of SF combat patches and our distinctly ah, central and eastern European nametags.  Back then I used the Walther 9mm MPK or MPL and the XM-21.  

I'm so happy to hear the Rose Range is still alive!  I hope the little cafe is still on the range.  I left in late '91 for the last time.   In a way I'm thankful for not staying until the "end".  Leaving Berlin was difficult for many Americans (and the other Allies, too).  It was not just the "occupation" priveledges -- far from it.   Rather, it had to do with living on the razor's edge for so many years, the intoxicating nightlife, the history, the culture!  Thankfully, memories cannot be taken away.  In the end, it was as it should have been -- a united, strong Germany.  For that we will always take great pride. Thank God I lived to see it come to pass.  

Now as for your brake, yeah the Noveske is the "Krinko" thing (Hmmm, I like that term...may stick!).  I'll try to get a pic of MSTN's brake up.  Yeah, from a military perspective, combining a viable brake with a flash suppressor just hasn't happened to date.  Remember, the military these days considers any small arms (e.g. below 0.50 cal/12.7 mm) flash eliminator that that can allow for detection of a muzzle flash at up to 30 degrees off axis at combat distances (e.g. 25-300M) by visible light, image intensification or by thermal imagers as not being effective.   Now, combine that requirement with an effective muzzle brake and you can see that the military of any reasonably technologically advanced country is not satisfied with the state of the art. This is the reason for the big push by the US Army and USMC for a whole new generation of flash and sound suppressors that will hopefully and I stress hopefully also serve as militarily viable muzzle brakes.  The first guy to combine all three requirements and not break the bank will end up owning the bank.  

Where did you German guys learn to write English as well, and in some cases better than Americans?



I got this SPR clone brake from ADCO, the new ones are supposed to be better.  ARs have so little felt recoil anyway, I couldn't tell one way or the other when I shot a rifle with this fake brake on or a flash suppressor.

Quoted: The plan is to get a 14.5 and add a 2 inch comp...may be. I am not so sure about that... @Alpha: Yeah I have seen this CQB-style comp...very nice and agressiv looking I like that....so has one fired the Phantom 5M1 without the downward port ?

It's a new model that was just released, there are no reports available but maybe later.

There are some states here that's comp are the only kind that's legal, some of the guys from those states will be posting them.


Here's the Noveske Krinkov Flash Hider, thread links and sellers links



The fire breathing pig logo


C4iGrant G&R Tactical Krinkov Noveske Flash Hider thread link






Global Tactical Supply Noveske 14.5" Afgan Krinkov Flash Hider thread link


The Krinkov Noveske Flash Hider are available from these Industry partners websites or at the Equipment Exchange boards.

G&R Tactical website link

Global Tactical Supply website link

Manufacturer of Krinkov FH John Noveske's Noveske Rifleworks website link

@Duffy:

Well...we learn that in schoolhe
The brake you have posted is the one I was talking about...SPR-Brake...how is it like ?

I don´t want a recoil-comp cause the kick of an AR is so tremendous...but it could help to shot faster and better in competition ha:
Thanks for the Krinkov-pix...this one is way to big...I will have long and slim M4 barrel...this bucket at the front would look to strange...

But the new Phantom....hmmm yummie hanks

.

Quoted: Quoted: The plan is to get a 14.5 and add a 2 inch comp...may be. I am not so sure about that... @Alpha: Yeah I have seen this CQB-style comp...very nice and agressiv looking I like that....so has one fired the Phantom 5M1 without the downward port ? It's a new model that was just released, there are no reports available but maybe later. There are some states here that's comp are the only kind that's legal, some of the guys from those states will be posting them. Here's the Noveske Krinkov Flash Hider, thread links and sellers links www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/Fire%20breathing%20pig.jpg The fire breathing pig logo www.grtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/USA%20Krink%20full%20view.jpg C4iGrant G&R Tactical Krinkov Noveske Flash Hider thread link globaltactical.com/_img.upload/Noveske%2014.5%20with%2013.2%20LaRue%20and%20KFH%206.jpg globaltactical.com/_img.upload/Noveske%2014.5%20with%2013.2%20LaRue%20and%20KFH%204.jpg Global Tactical Supply Noveske 14.5" Afgan Krinkov Flash Hider thread link The Krinkov Noveske Flash Hider are available from these Industry partners websites or at the Equipment Exchange boards. G&R Tactical website link Global Tactical Supply website link Manufacturer of Krinkov FH John Noveske's Noveske Rifleworks website link

Isn't it interesting that the Noveske FH is the latest rage all of a sudden?

I had never seen one 2 months ago, and now that fire-breathing pig is all over the place.

Here at AR15.com for sure, the Cover of SWAT magazine this month, SAR, you name it, the new FH is there.


For something so simple, and resembling a screw-on blunder-buster device, it sure has made a splash!!

The real Ops Inc. two port brake is different in that the inside is more hollow, the older ADCO SPR clone brake has more material inside unmachined, so it's kind of heavy too.  Members had posted pics of the real Ops Inc. brake in action, I believe it reduced the flash somewhat, whereas the SPR clone brake doesn't really brake or suppress flash.
The problem was we could only get the real deal if we get an SPR upper made by great folks like Wes at MSTN, it wasn't for sale seperately.   You might email Steve at ADCO to see if the new one has more functiionalities over the old.

Quoted: @QUIB: You must have had a hell of a good time in Berlin... I had some good friends in the CSC/4th. 502nd...miss them. And I don´t want to see your toy wich you can keep in your pantys A pic of your M4 with a Comp/brake on it would do it.

Sorry, was never in Berlin. Closest was Hof or Selb, Germany in Oberfranken near the Czech border. My wife is from that area as well as my family, I‘m a “mischling“, halb Deutsch / halb Franzosisch. I was stationed down by Ansbach, spent a total of 13+ years in Germany, civilian and military. I also have a nephew who is a border patrol officer in the BGS near Regensburg.

Sorry none of my AR’s have Comps or Brakes on them but here are some pics, und…….“Herzlich Willkommen bei ARFCOM!”  

Quoted: MSTN's quiet brake are the best comp available. flat shooting and it is not loud as the name you see. Give Wes a call. photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/1_QCBrake.jpg

Lee, compared to the "other name", does it have a marked difference in sound / blast? You got me VERY interested with that claim! I currently have the "other" one.

I replaced my JP "tank" brake with the PRI/MSTN brake MSTN QC Brake: This brake is still very effective but has much less muzzle blast! I really like it!

If you are going with a OA AR15 you could just add the "OA-Kompensator" which is nothing else than the OPSInc brake. OPS Inc.

For IPSC I would go with a comp / brake and not with a flash hider. I would not worry about muzzle flash at all.

Wer die Wahl hat ...

Walli

@QUIB:

well at least you came pretty close to the Hauptstadt.
Did you served with the BalckHorseCav. in Ansbach ?
I had a buddy there with the Air-Scouts.

Since 1.August the Bundesgrenzschutz is now called "Bundespolizei"
But the GSG9 is keeping the Name.

Thanks for the heartly wellcomeh.gif

@Walli:
Is the Tank-Brake the monster-brake wich looks like beeing stolen of a .50 Cal ?
So you say that the MSTN QC Brake is tamming the recoil too ?
The MSTN QC Brake looks a little like the small JP brake...hase one testet it ?

No I am not going for an OA-AR15...2100,- Euro (about $2500,- I guess)
for a "nacked" AR ?...sorry...no way..even if it is perfectly made and made in Germany...I am a cop not a lawerherThe go here for 1600,- Euro...when I can get one for 1300,- or so I will go for that option.

And the OPS is with $115,- also not a bargain...but if it helps.hThe kick into my sholder is not the issue since I am a big guy, but the muzzel-flip is what I want to get rid off .

...hat die Qual !...I know hinking.gif

Tahank you

Hey...but the OPS-Brake is 2.6 inchh

Quoted: @QUIB: well at least you came pretty close to the Hauptstadt. Did you served with the BalckHorseCav. in Ansbach ? I had a buddy there with the Air-Scouts. Since 1.August the Bundesgrenzschutz is now called "Bundespolizei" But the GSG9 is keeping the Name. Thanks for the heartly wellcome

Blackhorse CAV was I believe the 2-6 CAV out of Illesheim, near BadWindsheim. I was with the 1-1 CAV as an Aero-Scout Crew Chief stationed at Katterbach near Ansbach, but was also stationed in Illesheim from 1985 to 1988.

Quoted: @QUIB. Since 1.August the Bundesgrenzschutz is now called "Bundespolizei" But the GSG9 is keeping the Name. Thanks for the heartly wellcome

I know its off topic but, did you see the most recent SWAT magazine article featuring the GSG9 domination of the Team SWAT competition held at the Gunsite (USA) facility last month?

Read about the GSG9 romp at World SWAT Challenge - by clicking HERE

They were awesome, and "made everyone else battle for a distant second place"

Congratulations to the GSG9!!

Now, back to those brakes/FH's!!



Surefire fast-attach Suppressor adaptors

I run one of the Clark Comps on my 3-gun AR.

www.clarkcustomguns.com/cfrifleparts.htm

http://www.picvault.info/images/129808_SPR%20clark.jpg

Where can you buy these SureFire fast attach thingies?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The plan is to get a 14.5 and add a 2 inch comp...may be. I am not so sure about that... @Alpha: Yeah I have seen this CQB-style comp...very nice and agressiv looking I like that....so has one fired the Phantom 5M1 without the downward port ? It's a new model that was just released, there are no reports available but maybe later. Here's the Noveske Krinkov Flash Hider, thread links and sellers links Isn't it interesting that the Noveske FH is the latest rage all of a sudden? I had never seen one 2 months ago, and now that fire-breathing pig is all over the place. Here at AR15.com for sure, the Cover of SWAT magazine this month, SAR, you name it, the new FH is there. For something so simple, and resembling a screw-on blunder-buster device, it sure has made a splash!!

I agree with you but it doesn't affect me that much because I don't have a SBR (yet).

I've seen smaller versions of this FS on Krinkov AKs maybe early '90s so it's only an improvement of a previous design.

It should be popular until the next best new FS becomes the next rage.

@QUIB:

Do you know a CWO Callhoun (spelling?) ? He went down to "The Sandbox Part I" after he came back I lost contact.

@red:

Yeah I heard about that heyIn 2004 they had about 750 "operations"he

@HardCover:

How do you like the Clark Comp ??? How is it like to shot it ? Compared to the Birdcage ?
Your Pic just looks like an X  to me

Quoted: Quoted: @QUIB. Since 1.August the Bundesgrenzschutz is now called "Bundespolizei" But the GSG9 is keeping the Name. Thanks for the heartly wellcome I know its off topic but, did you see the most recent SWAT magazine article featuring the GSG9 domination of the Team SWAT competition held at the Gunsite (USA) facility last month? Read about the GSG9 romp at World SWAT Challenge - by clicking HERE They were awesome, and "made everyone else battle for a distant second place" Congratulations to the GSG9!! Now, back to those brakes/FH's!! www.machinegun.com/files/13694.jpg Surefire fast-attach Suppressor adaptors

============
Can someone confirm that the prodcuts we are looking at above are in fact prodcued by Surefire?

Quoted: @QUIB: Do you know a CWO Callhoun (spelling?) ? He went down to "The Sandbox Part I" after he came back I lost contact.

I don't think so, but it's been a long time. Do you know what unit he was with?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @QUIB. Since 1.August the Bundesgrenzschutz is now called "Bundespolizei" But the GSG9 is keeping the Name. Thanks for the heartly wellcome I know its off topic but, did you see the most recent SWAT magazine article featuring the GSG9 domination of the Team SWAT competition held at the Gunsite (USA) facility last month? Read about the GSG9 romp at World SWAT Challenge - by clicking HERE They were awesome, and "made everyone else battle for a distant second place" Congratulations to the GSG9!! Now, back to those brakes/FH's!! www.machinegun.com/files/13694.jpg Surefire fast-attach Suppressor adaptors ============ Can someone confirm that the prodcuts we are looking at above are in fact prodcued by Surefire?

From this PDF off of SureFire's website.

www.surefiresuppressors.com/images/Adapters.pdf