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Posted: 11/1/2011 2:25:06 PM EDT
I have been bitten with the comp bug after owning a BC on my 16'' middy. I am now in the market for another upper and I am thinking about doing a Spike's with a dynacomp. I won't be shooting with squads, but I guess it could end up being shot inside a house. In that case is a comp vs flash hider even going to matter? I imagine it will be deafening no matter what.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 2:26:57 PM EDT
wont matter, flash hiders just minimize muzzle flash not sound, either way its going to cause serious hearing damage
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 2:26:58 PM EDT
For this type of carbine keep it simple, your technique is a hell of lot more important than what type of comp is on the gun.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 2:29:34 PM EDT
I think hiding the flash would be more important in that situation.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 2:34:56 PM EDT
Do comps make that much of a difference? Get a can! LOL I just have the standard A2 flash hider and I couldn't imagine much less recoil...I do wanna try one though.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 2:38:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Camu:
Do comps make that much of a difference? Get a can! LOL I just have the standard A2 flash hider and I couldn't imagine much less recoil...I do wanna try one though.


I didn't think I needed one until I started doing IDPA. Once I started using the BC my groups got smaller and faster.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 2:40:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CyberIntel:
For this type of carbine keep it simple, your technique is a hell of lot more important than what type of comp is on the gun.


+1 If anything, I'd figure that reducing flash signature is going to be more important than a slight reduction in split times. I think too often in any kind of defensive shooting discussion people tend to become fixated on split times above all else.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 2:55:06 PM EDT
My personal feeling is anything that is going to make a person more confident/comfortable in shooting thier defense weapon is perfectly acceptable. If the idea is to use a weapon to save ones life, what ever it takes to make it's handler know thier rounds are going to strike when needed so be it.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 3:14:18 PM EDT
I have no idea why, but the only single weapon I really need a comp on is my 20 inch AR that is chambered for 5.45.
The muzzle flip was noticeable.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 3:21:08 PM EDT
Put some kind of muzzle attachment on it if for nothing more than protecting the muzzle from damage.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 3:21:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2011 3:22:08 PM EDT by 1saxman]
Double tap
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 3:43:09 PM EDT
I'm not a fan of comps but can see their value in competition. Like was said any kind of shooting indoors is going to cause hearing damage. A can would be a great idea in that type of situation. Out of the choices given though I'd find more value in the flash hider myself.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 3:56:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgwlower:
My personal feeling is anything that is going to make a person more confident/comfortable in shooting thier defense weapon is perfectly acceptable. If the idea is to use a weapon to save ones life, what ever it takes to make it's handler know thier rounds are going to strike when needed so be it.


Good points, but money of corse is not limited - I'd rather see him spend the money to ammo and range time, but sure anything that gives you confidence in the weapon is good.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:02:40 PM EDT
No.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:03:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CyberIntel:
Originally Posted By sgwlower:
My personal feeling is anything that is going to make a person more confident/comfortable in shooting thier defense weapon is perfectly acceptable. If the idea is to use a weapon to save ones life, what ever it takes to make it's handler know thier rounds are going to strike when needed so be it.


Good points, but money of corse is not limited - I'd rather see him spend the money to ammo and range time, but sure anything that gives you confidence in the weapon is good.


I have over 3k rounds in stock ATM and just sold another upper to fund this one. I also shoot weekly and get to at least 1 uspsa or idpa per month.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:11:19 PM EDT
I use a vortex flash hider and Hornady le Red box TAP 75 grain for hd. Ammunitiontogo has the .223 red box TAP in stock almost all the time. They put flash suppressent in the powder and with the vortex i almost cannot see the flash at night. The .223 version will plenty good velocity wise at HD ranges. Also there is a book called "on killing" that explains physiological responses to gunfights etc. you will not even hear the rounds that you are shooting in such a situation, and they definitely will not even ring your ears. I would save my night vision and use a flash hider before a comp.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:24:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
wont matter, flash hiders just minimize muzzle flash not sound, either way its going to cause serious hearing damage


no hearing protection indoors, then this!!!
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:30:14 PM EDT
Flash Suppressor.

What do Mil and SWAT cops have on their rifles muzzles and why ?

Think about it.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:34:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By B44T:
Flash Suppressor.

What do Mil and SWAT cops have on their rifles muzzles and why ?

Think about it.


Swat guys I shoot with have battle comps.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:44:39 PM EDT
Best comp on the market and it reduces flash too. Even better it's AWB OK.

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=9&idcategory=6
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:49:54 PM EDT
Get a can. Problem solved.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:53:39 PM EDT
If it's for the notional "SHTF" senario then it should have a can.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 4:58:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2011 5:04:24 PM EDT by Mb121]
Originally Posted By SickMAK90:
Originally Posted By B44T:
Flash Suppressor.

What do Mil and SWAT cops have on their rifles muzzles and why ?

Think about it.


Swat guys I shoot with have battle comps.


They more than likely wear electronic or another form of ear protection and will normally have the time to put it on, you as a person who may have to protect your home may not have the time and have to react at that moment. It's going to hurt either way but having a comp on that will amplify both muzzle blast and noise is not something that I would personally want on a rifle. Been near rifles that have had comps on them and fired close to me, not fun even with ear pro on. My vote goes for a flash hider.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 5:00:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Merdoc:
I think hiding the flash would be more important in that situation.


Agreed

Sound can come from anywhere, the flash will give away your position.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 5:03:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2011 5:04:02 PM EDT by Patrick101]
1. Can
2. Flash hider
3. Comp

Id be glad to have something over nothing. I cant have a can in NY. I cant put a flash hider on a post ban AR in NY. So its a comp for me.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 5:08:17 PM EDT
Sh!t hits the fan, I want something that can put rounds down range in quick succession. Being able to aquire a target for a second shot at any range is a huge benifit compared to flash elimation or sound.

In a SHTF scenario, your mind is going to be blazin with ideas and stress, anything to remedy the difficulty of shooting will help.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 5:22:19 PM EDT
Why not. If it's really SHTF, plan on actually having to shoot it. Anything that aids in that endeavour is a plus.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 6:29:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mb121:
Originally Posted By SickMAK90:
Originally Posted By B44T:
Flash Suppressor.

What do Mil and SWAT cops have on their rifles muzzles and why ?

Think about it.


Swat guys I shoot with have battle comps.


They more than likely wear electronic or another form of ear protection and will normally have the time to put it on, you as a person who may have to protect your home may not have the time and have to react at that moment. It's going to hurt either way but having a comp on that will amplify both muzzle blast and noise is not something that I would personally want on a rifle. Been near rifles that have had comps on them and fired close to me, not fun even with ear pro on. My vote goes for a flash hider.


You've never shot a Battle Comp, have you?



OP, personally, I think the benefit of quicker follow-up shots is better than hiding flash. The Battle Comp is very good in that regard, without the massive concussion or fireball common to competition comps and brakes.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 6:59:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2011 7:04:53 PM EDT by wildearp]
Suppressor. Baffles. True noise and flash suppression.

Link Posted: 11/1/2011 7:38:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By strat81:
Originally Posted By Mb121:

They more than likely wear electronic or another form of ear protection and will normally have the time to put it on, you as a person who may have to protect your home may not have the time and have to react at that moment. It's going to hurt either way but having a comp on that will amplify both muzzle blast and noise is not something that I would personally want on a rifle. Been near rifles that have had comps on them and fired close to me, not fun even with ear pro on. My vote goes for a flash hider.


You've never shot a Battle Comp, have you?



OP, personally, I think the benefit of quicker follow-up shots is better than hiding flash. The Battle Comp is very good in that regard, without the massive concussion or fireball common to competition comps and brakes.


I've shot BC-equipped gun 7.62x39 gun, and found little difference in muzzle climb vs AK-74 style compensator on my SGL-21. The concussion was much sharper, though.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 8:09:40 PM EDT
A comp no.
I'm +1'ing the suppressor.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 8:10:22 PM EDT
Faster follow-up shots is whats going to give you the edge in a HD shooting. The notion that you want to minimize your flash signature as to not give away your position while shooting at someone 10 feet away in your living rooms/hall-way is.....hard to give credence to.

Also, from shooting comps, I notice a lot of the noise tends to go sideways, not back. Thus, its really loud to the guy next to you, for you, its not so bad.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 8:11:21 PM EDT
In a SHTF situation I think being hidden is more important than better groupings lol.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 8:25:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By -V-:
Faster follow-up shots is whats going to give you the edge in a HD shooting. The notion that you want to minimize your flash signature as to not give away your position while shooting at someone 10 feet away in your living rooms/hall-way is.....hard to give credence to.

Also, from shooting comps, I notice a lot of the noise tends to go sideways, not back. Thus, its really loud to the guy next to you, for you, its not so bad.


Except when you are shooting in a hallway.
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 8:51:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2011 8:52:44 PM EDT by kaos]

Originally Posted By -V-:
Faster follow-up shots is whats going to give you the edge in a HD shooting. The notion that you want to minimize your flash signature as to not give away your position while shooting at someone 10 feet away in your living rooms/hall-way is.....hard to give credence to.

Also, from shooting comps, I notice a lot of the noise tends to go sideways, not back. Thus, its really loud to the guy next to you, for you, its not so bad.
True enough, but the 2nd point, that 'sideways going sound' is going to echo off the hallway walls and be loud as a bitch.
ETA: as WI57 said.

Just be aware that you're going to have to ask the cops to repeat themselves a lot while they question you for their report.

Link Posted: 11/1/2011 9:26:33 PM EDT
Cans and flash suppressors I am familiar with.

Who's tested battle comp to see if it plays well with goggles ?
Link Posted: 11/1/2011 9:58:16 PM EDT
It seems we have a different outlook on what is a SHTF.

Some people are arguing that Self Defense/Home invasion defense would be the most likely SHTF scenario.

I really think this is giving us the different opinions on what would be best for this topic.

I personally just aquired my first Compensator and its made by Ares Armor. I only have experience in A2 Flashhiders as my comparission. I notice almost 80% reduction in rifle movement because of this Compensator and I personally think Its one of the best upgrades you can perform on your rifle compared to an A2 Flashhider.

The noise is much louder and the concusion and fireball are very noticiable, but my follow up shots are easily 2x faster and this is with using a 7.5 PDW AR15.

If i were going to get into a gunfight, I would choose a Compensator over the Flashhider any day. ( I have not fired this at night, to see if the Bloom is too bright for my Eotech or just to be night-blinded.)

Link Posted: 11/1/2011 10:14:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wildearp:
Suppressor. Baffles. True noise and flash suppression.

http://i40.tinypic.com/addixv.jpg


Good info here...



It's quieter, no muzzle flash and I can easily keep rounds on target.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 12:22:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By whoreable:
It seems we have a different outlook on what is a SHTF.

Some people are arguing that Self Defense/Home invasion defense would be the most likely SHTF scenario.

I really think this is giving us the different opinions on what would be best for this topic.

I personally just aquired my first Compensator and its made by Ares Armor. I only have experience in A2 Flashhiders as my comparission. I notice almost 80% reduction in rifle movement because of this Compensator and I personally think Its one of the best upgrades you can perform on your rifle compared to an A2 Flashhider.

The noise is much louder and the concusion and fireball are very noticiable, but my follow up shots are easily 2x faster and this is with using a 7.5 PDW AR15.

If i were going to get into a gunfight, I would choose a Compensator over the Flashhider any day. ( I have not fired this at night, to see if the Bloom is too bright for my Eotech or just to be night-blinded.)



You need to try it at night. Quick follow up shots are useless if one shot kills your natural night vision.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 1:49:03 AM EDT
While suppressors are the best over all option, I say the cost vs. benefit would best be the flashiders.


Birdcage flashiders work well and are provided with most AR's.
Vortex and Blackout flash hiders are pretty cheap considering their effectiveness. I put these on my sticks!

I do think that comps work great in limited applications. But I would go with total flash reduction over a perceived muzzle flip reduction any day of the week when it comes to people possibly shooting back at me.
Think of people, probably more than one, wanting to shoot you. Is a comp really going to be that much of an aid? Or would you be better served firing back with no signature but sound, which is hard to triangulate any way.

If you train enough and learn your weapon a comp becomes moot.

Link Posted: 11/2/2011 2:50:14 AM EDT
IIRC either vickers or pat Rogers said the "losing your night vision" from shooting a comp or whatever is BS. I think I have decided to wait for the spikes 16" lw middy Instead of getting the pinned 14.5". So I'll throw my BC on that for SHTF and I'll get a more aggressive comp for my idpa setup.

For home defense I will be using a glock. I am also planning on doing a 9mm AR someday and if it proves reliable that may become my HD gun. 9mm would be much less concussive if shot inside and should be plenty effective at HD distance.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:01:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By -V-:
Faster follow-up shots is whats going to give you the edge in a HD shooting. The notion that you want to minimize your flash signature as to not give away your position while shooting at someone 10 feet away in your living rooms/hall-way is.....hard to give credence to.

Also, from shooting comps, I notice a lot of the noise tends to go sideways, not back. Thus, its really loud to the guy next to you, for you, its not so bad.


+1

If you are shooting from a distance and hoping your muzzle flash isn't seen that doesn't scream defensive shoot to me, it sounds more like prison time. More rounds on target are of far greater importance to me.

I run commentators, but a can IS on the short list!
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:24:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2011 5:26:22 AM EDT by Krylancelo]

Originally Posted By SickMAK90:
Originally Posted By B44T:
Flash Suppressor.

What do Mil and SWAT cops have on their rifles muzzles and why ?

Think about it.


Swat guys I shoot with have battle comps.

Many LEOs use Battlecomps as well as FSC556 comps.

People in the military use the A2 because it's what is issued to them. They don't get to choose their own muzzle devices. They get a very small bit of leeway on some items but generally have to use the guns as issued.


Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:
Originally Posted By whoreable:
It seems we have a different outlook on what is a SHTF.

Some people are arguing that Self Defense/Home invasion defense would be the most likely SHTF scenario.

I really think this is giving us the different opinions on what would be best for this topic.

I personally just aquired my first Compensator and its made by Ares Armor. I only have experience in A2 Flashhiders as my comparission. I notice almost 80% reduction in rifle movement because of this Compensator and I personally think Its one of the best upgrades you can perform on your rifle compared to an A2 Flashhider.

The noise is much louder and the concusion and fireball are very noticiable, but my follow up shots are easily 2x faster and this is with using a 7.5 PDW AR15.

If i were going to get into a gunfight, I would choose a Compensator over the Flashhider any day. ( I have not fired this at night, to see if the Bloom is too bright for my Eotech or just to be night-blinded.)



You need to try it at night. Quick follow up shots are useless if one shot kills your natural night vision.

I've shot at night a good bit. Even on rapid fire strings with a battlecomp I never once lost my "natural night vision." Honestly, I feel like this is a total myth unless you're not looking at your target and are instead staring intently at your muzzle. At EAG classes, even people with full blown comps that shot giant fireballs never got blinded by their flash. Pat Rogers makes a point in AARs to point out the lack of "blinding" from even giant fireball shooting short barreled rifles that come to his classes.

The benefits of a flash suppressor are that the enemy won't know where you are. Still, if you're using a weapon light that will give you away far more than a compensator will ever. People seem to be seriously overlooking that. If it's at night, when flash will be most noticeable, using your light will give you away far more than your muzzle flash. However, proper usage of both the light and properly choosing when to fire can keep the enemy confused as to your location. Training will mitigate both of these issues.



I do agree however that a suppressor, if legal in your state and you have the funds to support it, is the best choice. I will continue to use my battle comps and hopefully be able to throw on my electronic ear pro when this goes down as I generally keep it with the rifle.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:27:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SickMAK90:
IIRC either vickers or pat Rogers said the "losing your night vision" from shooting a comp or whatever is BS. I think I have decided to wait for the spikes 16" lw middy Instead of getting the pinned 14.5". So I'll throw my BC on that for SHTF and I'll get a more aggressive comp for my idpa setup.

For home defense I will be using a glock. I am also planning on doing a 9mm AR someday and if it proves reliable that may become my HD gun. 9mm would be much less concussive if shot inside and should be plenty effective at HD distance.

Yup.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:27:49 AM EDT
I ran an AAC non mount brake for a while.

It was effective in terms of reducing muzzle jump and allowed for quicker follow up shots.

However, it was loud as balls.

I'm going to stick with FH's from here on out until I can get the coin together for a can.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:30:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2011 5:32:49 AM EDT by Krylancelo]

Originally Posted By gameboy:
In a SHTF situation I think being hidden is more important than better groupings lol.

How do you intend to see the bad guys? Turning on the house lights? Using your weapon light? Waiting for them to turn on a flash light?

Realize that if you just start shooting at flash light beams in your house you have completely neglected to ID your target. You could accidentally shoot a loved one or a cop. Not to mention violating one of the firearms safety rules (always know what is in front of and behind your target). Your misses could send rounds directly into another room of your house, or into a neighbor's house if you aren't sure what you're looking at. Yes, I realize you probably know your own home well, but it is easy to forget details when your adrenaline is pumping and your vision is greatly impaired by darkness.

If you have the house lights on... You aren't hidden anyway. If you use your weapon light, your muzzle flash won't mean a damn thing.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:32:16 AM EDT
I still worry about trying to defend "I shot a guy in my house with a slienced rifle" in court. I completely understand the use, and perfection for the HD/SHTF environment, hell its what they were designed for.

I just worry about trying to justify to the non miliatry/shooter type why I needed to "silence" my HD weapon.
As I Have said in a similar thread––much of the public is unaware that in most states it is perfectly legal to own a supressor. All they have seen is supressors on Assassin's weapons in the movies.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:34:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2011 5:37:48 AM EDT by thornejc]
We should probably leave this to people who have been in engagements and know what will save your life and what is unnecessary crap.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:34:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgwlower:
I still worry about trying to defend "I shot a guy in my house with a slienced rifle" in court. I completely understand the use, and perfection for the HD/SHTF environment, hell its what they were designed for.

I just worry about trying to justify to the non miliatry/shooter type why I needed to "silence" my HD weapon.
As I Have said in a similar thread––much of the public is unaware that in most states it is perfectly legal to own a supressor. All they have seen is supressors on Assassin's weapons in the movies.

And this is a sad truth. Ignorance is considered just as good as knowledge in our country by the majority. It makes me sad.

I agree with you though. I imagine a jury full of the average citizen who doesn't know a single thing about firearms laws would initially be "shocked and appalled" that the defendant used a *gasp* SILENCED ASSAULT RIFLE *gasp* to defend himself. I hope that your lawyer and the testimonies given can help provide knowledge to the ignorant though and get you acquitted.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:37:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2011 5:39:36 AM EDT by Krylancelo]

Originally Posted By thornejc:
If you are engaging at night or in low light your muzzle flash will get you killed. The extra 1/100th of a second that it might save you MIGHT save your life once in 500 engagements...not being seen will help out significantly more.

Again, I pose the question: How are you locating and IDing your targets if you're just sitting in a dark room waiting? Are you just going to shoot at the flash light beams in your house (completely neglecting to positively ID the targets as threats and not as someone you don't want to destroy)? Are you going to turn on the house lights? Are you going to use a weapon light?

If you answered anything except the first answer, you're already giving away your position. Your muzzle flash won't matter. Further, many of the hybrid comp/flash hiders (battle comp, FSC556) aren't even much more flash than the A2. Unless you guys are all using AAC blackout or Smith Vortex flash hiders, you still aren't hiding your muzzle flash very well. It's still VERY much visible within the engagement ranges of your average home. Unless you guys all lives in mansions where you can take shots from 50 yards away or more.

Also we're talking engagement ranges of under 10 yards right? Do you really think they won't be able to locate you within 10 yards just because your muzzle flash is less flashy? You're freaking close to them.
Link Posted: 11/2/2011 5:42:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2011 5:42:40 AM EDT by thornejc]
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:

Originally Posted By sgwlower:
I still worry about trying to defend "I shot a guy in my house with a slienced rifle" in court. I completely understand the use, and perfection for the HD/SHTF environment, hell its what they were designed for.

I just worry about trying to justify to the non miliatry/shooter type why I needed to "silence" my HD weapon.
As I Have said in a similar thread––much of the public is unaware that in most states it is perfectly legal to own a supressor. All they have seen is supressors on Assassin's weapons in the movies.

And this is a sad truth. Ignorance is considered just as good as knowledge in our country by the majority. It makes me sad.

I agree with you though. I imagine a jury full of the average citizen who doesn't know a single thing about firearms laws would initially be "shocked and appalled" that the defendant used a *gasp* SILENCED ASSAULT RIFLE *gasp* to defend himself. I hope that your lawyer and the testimonies given can help provide knowledge to the ignorant though and get you acquitted.



The "I needed 'silencers' for self-defense" argument didn't work out too well for that T.I. rapper guy that got arrested with them.
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