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Posted: 6/9/2008 1:54:07 PM EDT
I have been to the range twice now with dissapointment. I have come to the conclusion that it is a short stroking... I believe. 1. I manualy load a round by charging the handle, 2. I fire the first round and hear that "BOINGGG" noise of the buffer spring, 3. I pull the triggar for the second round and nothing happens, 3. I take out the magazine and pull back on the charging handle to fine no round in the chamber... after letting it sit facing downrange as if it were a dud, 4. I try again... charge the handle and shoot the first round to have the same thing happen again, 5. Begin to get pissed off, 6. After a while I fire the first round to have the round fire, but have the caseing stuck in the chamber. This continued to happen for all 10 round. I was using WOLF 55gr FMJ & JHP "Wolf Performance." I have used WOLF Military Classic before with hundreds of round with no problems. From the way I understand WOLF MC has the bullet head sealed into the casing, where WOLF Performance does not. I think by having the same grainage, but with the bullet head sealed gives the round more power, I could be wrong. This might explain why MC worked, but Wolf Performance did not. About 1000 rounds have been put through my AR. I built it from a stripped lower and Upper. Sundevil lower, VLTOR MUR upper, Bushy 16" Patrolmans barrel assembly, Bolt and carrier assembly and lower parts kit, Magpul M93B, MIAD. The barrel is tourqued to about 50 FT/LBS. Some of this info may be useles, but I need all the help I can get. From what I have read in the short stoke forum, thats what mine sounds like, but I do not recall hearing people saying they are getting rounds stuck in chamber. When I first started shooting I used Rem UMC and American Eagle, but ran out of money, so I whent to WOLF. My barrel came loose at the range about 5 months ago. I learned from the experience and no one was hurt. Re-tourqued my barrel to 50FT/LBS, and is good now. If anyhting stands out in what I have said the could contribute to my problem, please let me know. Thank you in advanced.
Link Posted: 6/9/2008 4:32:05 PM EDT
BTW, I have already checked all areas I believe, where signs of gas leaking could be. FSB, gas tube, gas rings, and the gas key. Everything looks to be properly staked, sized, fitted, and in good working order. If there are any areas I have not checked, let me know. So far i have been told since everyhting was fine before I started using WOLF Performance, to use some brass or 62gr WOLF to see if different ammo changes anything, next to change gas tube, and last to change bolt carrier. I have pretty much goten the same story to everyone I talk to. So anyhting would be appreaciated, thanks
Link Posted: 6/9/2008 8:25:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/9/2008 8:48:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dano523:
As known, the coating on the poly ammo will not just dissolve off the chamber walls, but has to be scrubbed off with a chamber brush to correctly clean the chamber.

Since wolf does burn and foul (powderized poly fouling) a bit more than other ammo's, a little more CLP than normal used to lube the upper bearing surfaces is not a bad idea.

Bottom line is clean and lube the rig, then with only one round mag/rifle charged, fire for effect. If the bolt is not locking back after such round, then you have a chamber/gas action that will not work with such ammo. Before writing off or start to mod the rifle, go back and try brass case ammo for the same as above. If you isolate the problem to the ammo alone being the fault, then it's your call on where to correct the rifle for such, or to move to another type of ammo.


I cleaned it and lubed it up pretty good with CLP and I use a .22 boresnake & used a pipe cleaner folded up to get into those grooves in the chamber. Would this be sufficient, or should I get a small chamber brush? thanks for the help
Link Posted: 6/9/2008 9:32:30 PM EDT
will the otis kit work well as an all around cleaning kit, or should I get some CJ Chamber stars?
Link Posted: 6/9/2008 10:19:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2008 10:20:45 PM EDT by Dano523]
Link Posted: 6/9/2008 11:25:00 PM EDT
My experience with WOlf Performance is that the ammo is ok, but a bit on the weak side.

It didn't hit targets with as much force as American Commercial and surplus ammo. I even had problems with it short-stroking when using a Beta C-Mag.

If the rifle is very clean, you've satisfied yourself that there are no gas leaks, then you might try opening up the gas port just a bit. I would certainly rule out all other causes before doing this.
Link Posted: 6/10/2008 6:26:51 AM EDT
I guess I will start by getting a nice cleaning kit and srubbing the chamber. Hopefully this will fix the problem, because I have 200rds of WOLF left over and ammo is expensive. Thanks
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 1:25:24 AM EDT
I wonder if modifying a recoil spring for Wolf operations. I have the exact same problem, however I am using a Chrome Silicon spring from Tubbs. They said to cut 3 coils off of the spring to help. I haven't done that yet though.

The spring works flawlessly with all other ammo I've used. I wonder if one of those Ion Bonded Titanium carriers would help? Less mass for the weak ammo to push. You could open up the gas port more, but this really screws you when using regular ammo.
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 8:32:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2008 8:56:12 AM EDT by schwome]
I was inspecting my rifle just now and noticed I have alot of wear on the bottum side of the inside of my buffer tube. I have an m93b, is this normal wear... its silver where the black has been worn away

Link Posted: 6/12/2008 2:21:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 2:30:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dano523:
Check the end of spring winds for a protruding bur. If found, break out a file and resolve it.

Check the back of the carrier for a edge ring bur. If found, break out a file and resolve it.

Check the outer front Ridge on the buffer for a edge bur. If found, Break out a file and resolve it.

See a theme starting to starting here.


Thanks, but is this normal?
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 3:43:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/10/2008 3:02:09 PM EDT
I finally got my Otis ar15 soft pack cleaning kit and gave it a good clean, but I would still like to get some chamber stars for a better clean. I bought some Federal XM193 and I think I might be ready for my next trip to the range and see if I have fixed the problem. I just wanted to make sure my gas tube is good to go. There is slight wear on the end of the gas tube on the mushroom. I do not know if this is common wear, or if mu mushroom is gone and I need a new one. Could someone please post a detailed pic of the mushroom on the gas tube. Thanks in advanced

Schwome
Link Posted: 7/10/2008 9:22:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dano523:
As known, the coating on the poly ammo will not just dissolve off the chamber walls, but has to be scrubbed off with a chamber brush to correctly clean the chamber.

Since wolf does burn and foul (powderized poly fouling) a bit more than other ammo's, a little more CLP than normal used to lube the upper bearing surfaces is not a bad idea.

Bottom line is clean and lube the rig, then with only one round mag/rifle charged, fire for effect. If the bolt is not locking back after such round, then you have a chamber/gas action that will not work with such ammo. Before writing off or start to mod the rifle, go back and try brass case ammo for the same as above. If you isolate the problem to the ammo alone being the fault, then it's your call on where to correct the rifle for such, or to move to another type of ammo.


www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

also the chamber and neck are clean, but the lugs are still a little dirty, but I am wondering if I will be fine considering this read.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 2:46:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:18:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 12:19:15 AM EDT by stevenb]
Here is my letter and response from Wolf for the M85 stamped boxes.

My letter to Wolf:
Hi,
I recently purchased a bulk of .223 55 grain FMJ. When attempting to use the ammunition in my AR-15, it would short stroke every single round. I have 470 rounds remaining of the 500 round case. Every other brand of ammunition has worked without any trouble.

I originally had purchased the ammunition from www.ammoman.com on 5/29/2008.

Your website says you will purchase the ammunition back if I am unsatisfied with the product and pay for shipping also. Is this true?

Thanks,
xxxxxxx

The­ir response:
Dear xxxxxxxx,

Yes this is absolutely true...and we apologize for your unfortunate incident, and any inconvenience this may have caused you.

We have found lately that some of the Polyformance Black box ammunition does not work well in the AR-15's, but we are working at correcting this problem in the next month, so it is temporary. The Polyformance Black box will again work with the AR-15's by summer. In the mean time our Military Classic ammunition seems to work great! It's a hotter round and seems to work flawlessly in the AR-15's. I would suggest purchasing this for the next few months, after that both lines should work fine. If you give me your name, mailing address, amount of remaining ammunition you intend to return, where you purchased the ammunition from and the lot number, (stamped on the inside of the individual boxes), I can send you a UPS ARS tag in the mail. It will allow you to return the ammunition to us at no cost to you. We would like to test the ammunition and find out why you are having this problem. As soon as we receive the ammunition, we will issue you a refund or exchange, which ever you prefer. However, if you would prefer a refund, please include a copy of the invoice inside the case to be returned.

Your experience with WOLF Ammo is definitely not the norm, and we would like to prove that to you.

Sincerely,

WOLF Ammunition


My solution was to send back the defective ammunition to Wolf at their expense. They are to send me 2 boxes of their "fixed" ammunition for me to test, and refund the remaining ammunition.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:41:16 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By stevenb:
They are to send me 2 boxes of their "fixed" ammunition for me to test, and refund the remaining ammunition.


Wow! Now that's what I call good customer service! Not the level I'd expect from a "budget" manufacturer like Wolf.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:16:15 AM EDT
I was just at the ramge yesterday. I was using Wolf Ammo. Fired the first box of 20 no problems. Grabbed the next box, SHORT STROKING ! I then checked the lot #'s and realized I had two different lots. ALL ammo ending in lot #19 short stroked. The other lot fired fine. Off hand I don't remember the # of the ammo that fired well and Don't feel like going to check but I do remember it ended in the 40's. I still have to check to see how many rounds of the bad stuff I have. If it's alot I guess I'll also contact wolf.
Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 10:12:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stevenb:
Here is my letter and response from Wolf for the M85 stamped boxes.

My letter to Wolf:
Hi,
I recently purchased a bulk of .223 55 grain FMJ. When attempting to use the ammunition in my AR-15, it would short stroke every single round. I have 470 rounds remaining of the 500 round case. Every other brand of ammunition has worked without any trouble.

I originally had purchased the ammunition from www.ammoman.com on 5/29/2008.

Your website says you will purchase the ammunition back if I am unsatisfied with the product and pay for shipping also. Is this true?

Thanks,
xxxxxxx

The­ir response:
Dear xxxxxxxx,

Yes this is absolutely true...and we apologize for your unfortunate incident, and any inconvenience this may have caused you.

We have found lately that some of the Polyformance Black box ammunition does not work well in the AR-15's, but we are working at correcting this problem in the next month, so it is temporary. The Polyformance Black box will again work with the AR-15's by summer. In the mean time our Military Classic ammunition seems to work great! It's a hotter round and seems to work flawlessly in the AR-15's. I would suggest purchasing this for the next few months, after that both lines should work fine. If you give me your name, mailing address, amount of remaining ammunition you intend to return, where you purchased the ammunition from and the lot number, (stamped on the inside of the individual boxes), I can send you a UPS ARS tag in the mail. It will allow you to return the ammunition to us at no cost to you. We would like to test the ammunition and find out why you are having this problem. As soon as we receive the ammunition, we will issue you a refund or exchange, which ever you prefer. However, if you would prefer a refund, please include a copy of the invoice inside the case to be returned.

Your experience with WOLF Ammo is definitely not the norm, and we would like to prove that to you.

Sincerely,

WOLF Ammunition


My solution was to send back the defective ammunition to Wolf at their expense. They are to send me 2 boxes of their "fixed" ammunition for me to test, and refund the remaining ammunition.


Damn! Thank you very much for clearing up what I believe to be my problem. I have never had that problem before with any of the other ammo I have shot. I cleaned my gun well and it wasn't really all that dirty, so this could explain it. I have 200rds left over, but it sucks to be me, because I threw away the boxes and am storing the ammo in plastic bags because I thought it was my gun, so I could just fix the problem and shoot the ammo later. Gander has a no return policy on ammo so I figured the attempt was useless. If I go to the range and the problem continues then I will know it is not just the ammo because of my Federal XM ammo I just bought. If I have no problems then I will hate myself for throwing away those damn boxes. O well, it was only 200rds, so thats like70 buck. Who am I kidding, thats gas money.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 12:53:36 PM EDT
schwome,
Give Wolf a try and see if they'll swap out the ammo for you. Much of my ammo was loose since I had loaded 12 magazines with Wolf and tossed their boxes.

info@wolfammo.com

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 7:16:33 PM EDT
Good goin man! I had a similar issue with Wolf. I only bought a couple of boxes to give it a try, and it was not very hot at all. Almost every shot left me with an empty chamber. Good to hear they are making things right though!
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 9:43:24 AM EDT
just talked to Wolf and sent them an email. I should be getting 193rds of Military Classic .223 in the mail soon after I send my ammo in to them for a look
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