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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:34:27 AM EDT
I'll try to keep it short an sweet. Last week my uncle died and my dad got one of his guns and was asking my about it. He sent me a few pics and it was a MINT colt SP1 looked like it had barely been fired. This weekend I was in town for the funeral services and was going to check the gun out at my dads since he has no interest he was going to sell it to me for $500 bucks. Well long story short I get there and pop it open and it has a full M16 FCG (trigger, hammer, dis connector) along with M16 selector and complete with a drop in auto sear. First words out of my mouth were FUCK! I knew exactly what I was looking at and let my dad know. He contacted the ATF to see if by chance it was registered and it wasn't. When asked if we could just turn in the FCG and DIAS the answer was a stern nope under "once a machine gun always a machine gun". We weren't even allowed to keep the upper which is stupid since by their own law the only thing that is the firearm is the lower receiver.  So gun got turned in and I almost cried that gun was MINT. At least I got to finger fuck it for a while and snapped some potato pics with my phone. I wish I had more time and my good camera but didn't due to the last minute traveling and then dealing with the ATF.


Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:36:54 AM EDT
[#1]






Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:37:20 AM EDT
[#2]







ETA: something about Grease and Shovel...
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:40:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:







ETA: something about Grease and Shovel...
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Trust me if I had my way. Too many other people were present and were in the know.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:41:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I'll try to keep it short an sweet. Last week my uncle died and my dad got one of his guns and was asking my about it. He sent me a few pics and it was a MINT colt SP1 looked like it had barely been fired. This weekend I was in town for the funeral services and was going to check the gun out at my dads since he has no interest he was going to sell it to me for $500 bucks. Well long story short I get there and pop it open and it has a full M16 FCG (trigger, hammer, dis connector) along with M16 selector and complete with a drop in auto sear. First words out of my mouth were FUCK! I knew exactly what I was looking at and let my dad know. He contacted the ATF to see if by chance it was registered and it wasn't. When asked if we could just turn in the FCG and DIAS the answer was a stern nope under "once a machine gun always a machine gun". We weren't even allowed to keep the upper which is stupid since by their own law the only thing that is the firearm is the lower receiver.  So gun got turned in and I almost cried that gun was MINT. At least I got to finger fuck it for a while and snapped some potato pics with my phone. I wish I had more time and my good camera but didn't due to the last minute traveling and then dealing with the ATF.


View Quote


That truly sucks, OP.  

Also, your sig line is very appropriate.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:44:02 AM EDT
[#5]
I have never been into the whole retro thing the most retro I have gone was my A2 in basic training. However handling that rifle has me now on the search for an SP1. I was very surprised at how lightweight it was even with the 20'' barrel. I guess it helps it doesn't have flashlights lasers and other doo dads hanging off it it
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:46:20 AM EDT
[#6]
I fully understand letting the lower go.  The law is the law and you did the right thing.  However I don't understand the need for them to have the upper.  Those parts are not illegal to own.  It would have been a great basis for a retro build.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:48:23 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
I fully understand letting the lower go.  The law is the law and you did the right thing.  However I don't understand the need for them to have the upper.  Those parts are not illegal to own.  It would have been a great basis for a retro build.
View Quote


I know. It was my Dads call not mine and he wanted to wash his hands of the whole thing so didn't bother to argue with them. IF it were up to me I would have stripped the stock and pistol grip and bolt catch off the lower too and basically just turned in the lower with FCG. But like I said it wasn't my call and I had to get back home.


BTW the serial number put it @ 1979 production if I read the chart correctly.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:54:20 AM EDT
[#8]
Had you just destroyed the DIAS .... an O/A Welding Torch would have done the job .... and kept the firearm intact would it have still been legal.

Are the M16 FCG parts in a 1979 vintage AR legal today?
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:56:33 AM EDT
[#9]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/322347_So_you_found_an_MG_in_the_attic______.html
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:59:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Had you just destroyed the DIAS .... an O/A Welding Torch would have done the job .... and kept the firearm intact would it have still been legal.

Are the M16 FCG parts in a 1979 vintage AR legal today?

View Quote


Technically NO. The only legal m16 part you can have is the BCG. There has been alot of grey area and flakyness on the part of the ATF on this issue.  And believe me it wasn't my call to make. And based off of what the ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun". Yes I realize there would have been no way of knowing but the risk just isn't worth the reward and we did the right thing. I got my fill of shooting FA in the military. Granted if it was able to be legally transferred I would have bought it up in a heart beat but it wasn't.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:01:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Was the DIAS serialized? They [ATF] wouldn't have the lower SN on record because it's the DIAS that is the NFA part. I'd have removed and torched it and kept the 100% legal AR if there was ANY question about it's legality.

It would have been removed [DIAS] prior to calling the ATF in the first place.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:05:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Was the DIAS serialized? They [ATF] wouldn't have the lower SN on record because it's the DIAS that is the NFA part. I'd have removed and torched it and kept the 100% legal AR if there was ANY question about it's legality.

It would have been removed [DIAS] prior to calling the ATF in the first place.
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DIAS was NOT serialized. And when the DIAS was in conjunction with the AR the whole gun was a machine gun. Thus once a machine gun always a machine gun applies.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:06:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Technically NO. The only legal m16 part you can have is the BCG. There has been alot of grey area and flakyness on the part of the ATF on this issue.  And believe me it wasn't my call to make. And based off of what the ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun". Yes I realize there would have been no way of knowing but the risk just isn't worth the reward and we did the right thing. I got my fill of shooting FA in the military. Granted if it was able to be legally transferred I would have bought it up in a heart beat but it wasn't.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Had you just destroyed the DIAS .... an O/A Welding Torch would have done the job .... and kept the firearm intact would it have still been legal.

Are the M16 FCG parts in a 1979 vintage AR legal today?



Technically NO. The only legal m16 part you can have is the BCG. There has been alot of grey area and flakyness on the part of the ATF on this issue.  And believe me it wasn't my call to make. And based off of what the ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun". Yes I realize there would have been no way of knowing but the risk just isn't worth the reward and we did the right thing. I got my fill of shooting FA in the military. Granted if it was able to be legally transferred I would have bought it up in a heart beat but it wasn't.


Loose lips sink ships.  I feel sorry for your uncle and the SP1.  Here's an important lesson for you and this applies even if you're a police officer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

As much of a fan of law enforcement as I am, I have many friends that are police officers, stories like yours are always a good reminder to watch two of my favorite videos on youtube.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:11:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Was the DIAS serialized? They [ATF] wouldn't have the lower SN on record because it's the DIAS that is the NFA part. I'd have removed and torched it and kept the 100% legal AR if there was ANY question about it's legality.

It would have been removed [DIAS] prior to calling the ATF in the first place.
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That's what I was alluding to.

DESTROY the DIAS and M16 FCG

Install AR15 FCG.

Then call the ATF and say ...... " My uncle owned this, is it legal for me to take possession. "
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:13:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted: ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun".
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OK so if you DESTROYED the DIAS and the M16 FCG and installed AR15 parts .....

How would the ATF know it was EVER a machine gun????

Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:15:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That's what I was alluding to.

DESTROY the DIAS and M16 FCG

Install AR15 FCG.

Then call the ATF and say ...... " My uncle owned this, is it legal for me to take possession. "
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Was the DIAS serialized? They [ATF] wouldn't have the lower SN on record because it's the DIAS that is the NFA part. I'd have removed and torched it and kept the 100% legal AR if there was ANY question about it's legality.

It would have been removed [DIAS] prior to calling the ATF in the first place.


That's what I was alluding to.

DESTROY the DIAS and M16 FCG

Install AR15 FCG.

Then call the ATF and say ...... " My uncle owned this, is it legal for me to take possession. "



Still illegal and wasn't my call to make. Not going to fault my dad for doing the right thing. He isn't really a gun person and had no interest. The potential 10 years and $250,000 fine had him nervous.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:17:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


OK so if you DESTROYED the DIAS and the M16 FCG and installed AR15 parts .....

How would the ATF know it was EVER a machine gun????

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted: ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun".


OK so if you DESTROYED the DIAS and the M16 FCG and installed AR15 parts .....

How would the ATF know it was EVER a machine gun????



THEY wouldn't but there were far too many people present that aren't in my trust tree when we discovered that it was a machine gun including my stupid ass cousin who immediately posted it on Facebook before we were even able to see if it was registered or talk to the ATF. Bottom line is we did the right thing and I'm not going to lose any sleep about it at night.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:17:58 PM EDT
[#18]
I feel sick now.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:21:45 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
I feel sick now.
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+1. May we all have a moment of silence now, for this once fine SP1.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:30:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


THEY wouldn't but there were far too many people present that aren't in my trust tree when we discovered that it was a machine gun including my stupid ass cousin who immediately posted it on Facebook before we were even able to see if it was registered or talk to the ATF. Bottom line is we did the right thing and I'm not going to lose any sleep about it at night.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun".


OK so if you DESTROYED the DIAS and the M16 FCG and installed AR15 parts .....

How would the ATF know it was EVER a machine gun????



THEY wouldn't but there were far too many people present that aren't in my trust tree when we discovered that it was a machine gun including my stupid ass cousin who immediately posted it on Facebook before we were even able to see if it was registered or talk to the ATF. Bottom line is we did the right thing and I'm not going to lose any sleep about it at night.



Yeah ..... you did the right thing.

It sucks that the ATF applied the " once a machine gun always a machine gun " thing.

I mean if they would have just taken possession of the DIAS and FCG parts ..... it would have just been another " AR 15 ".

I wonder where that rifle is now?  

Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:46:24 PM EDT
[#21]
A true shame....perfectly good rifle without the ammo waster device in it, lol.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:47:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Wow, that blows. I would share the opinion of others that the DIAS is the machine gun. Remove that and the FCG and you are legal. The SP1 is just an SP1
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 12:50:36 PM EDT
[#23]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Wow, that blows. I would share the opinion of others that the DIAS is the machine gun. Remove that and the FCG and you are legal. The SP1 is just an SP1
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I agree.  ATF has made it clear the DIAS is it's own machinegun.  Without a third hole the SP1 was just an SP1.  Remove the FCG and replace with standard FCG.  Destroy DIAS and go on with life.
 
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:01:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Reason why...a mindset of..."one more evil black rifle off the streets"...prolly isn't too far off, in this case.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:29:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Reason why...a mindset of..."one more evil black rifle off the streets"...prolly isn't too far off, in this case.
View Quote


I know the agent that we talked to was so full of derp it was mind blowing. He was all good thing you called you have no idea how dangerous this thing is Good thing the good guys are getting it instead of it falling into the wrong hands etc etc.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:38:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Yeah ..... you did the right thing.

It sucks that the ATF applied the " once a machine gun always a machine gun " thing.

I mean if they would have just taken possession of the DIAS and FCG parts ..... it would have just been another " AR 15 ".

I wonder where that rifle is now?  

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun".


OK so if you DESTROYED the DIAS and the M16 FCG and installed AR15 parts .....

How would the ATF know it was EVER a machine gun????



THEY wouldn't but there were far too many people present that aren't in my trust tree when we discovered that it was a machine gun including my stupid ass cousin who immediately posted it on Facebook before we were even able to see if it was registered or talk to the ATF. Bottom line is we did the right thing and I'm not going to lose any sleep about it at night.



Yeah ..... you did the right thing.

It sucks that the ATF applied the " once a machine gun always a machine gun " thing.

I mean if they would have just taken possession of the DIAS and FCG parts ..... it would have just been another " AR 15 ".

I wonder where that rifle is now?  

that rifle was destroyed, at least the reciever.

Family will fuck you first.

OP did the right thing after cousin opened his cocksucker.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:38:34 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
including my stupid ass cousin
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What a shame, on so many tangents.  Certainly you now know for certain to be dang careful about anything you might do or say around him in the future.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:39:19 PM EDT
[#28]
@ OP:  Part of me feels sad that the SP1 couldn't stay in your family  But then again, if the BATF actually destroys the SP1, it will be reunited with the rightful owner--your uncle and he'll be smiling ear-to-ear in retro-heaven
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:52:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



What a shame, on so many tangents.  Certainly you now know for certain to be dang careful about anything you might do or say around him in the future.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
including my stupid ass cousin



What a shame, on so many tangents.  Certainly you now know for certain to be dang careful about anything you might do or say around him in the future.


He is a piece of shit this was the first time I have seen him in probably 12 years and could go the rest of my life without seeing him again.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:55:52 PM EDT
[#30]
If it were me, thinking back on it now, I would have done something to render that receiver TOTALLY FUCKING USELESS !!!!

I would have told the ATF .......

You have your " once a machine gun, always a machine gun " rule, well .......

I have my own " if I cannot own it, nobody can " rule.

How else can you really know the weapon was disposed of and not take home by the agent ?????


ETA: I am reminded of a case where a retired Baltimore City Police Commander was arrested in a Domestic Violence incident. Police removed all weapons from his house ......... INCLUDING one that was logged into the Baltimore City Police Dept EVIDENCE room and was never logged out.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-08-05/news/bs-md-ci-suspect-death-20140805_1_police-station-deputy-commissioner-jerry-rodriguez-police-cars

And last month, police said a gun that had been seized off the streets and was supposed to be destroyed was found inside the home of a recently retired commander arrested in a domestic-violence case.
View Quote



.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 2:26:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


THEY wouldn't but there were far too many people present that aren't in my trust tree when we discovered that it was a machine gun including my stupid ass cousin who immediately posted it on Facebook before we were even able to see if it was registered or talk to the ATF. Bottom line is we did the right thing and I'm not going to lose any sleep about it at night.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun".


OK so if you DESTROYED the DIAS and the M16 FCG and installed AR15 parts .....

How would the ATF know it was EVER a machine gun????



THEY wouldn't but there were far too many people present that aren't in my trust tree when we discovered that it was a machine gun including my stupid ass cousin who immediately posted it on Facebook before we were even able to see if it was registered or talk to the ATF. Bottom line is we did the right thing and I'm not going to lose any sleep about it at night.


In this case you did The Right Thing for all involved.  Had you been alone and had you found the DIAS not installed in the rifle, you may have been OK just torching the DIAS.  OP SEC, always op sec.  
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 2:31:49 PM EDT
[#32]
This series of unfortunate events has me reflecting on my OPSEC and INFOSEC around family.  Hate to use military terminology but its relevant.  Sorry about the shithead cousin.  Come to think of it I don't have one single family member that could be considered a "shovel and lime" friend.  I know some guys I served with that would have snatched your cousins phone before he posted it to facebook, its that serious...family is sometimes the ones that will ruin your day, that's a shame
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 3:21:01 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
This series of unfortunate events has me reflecting on my OPSEC and INFOSEC around family.  Hate to use military terminology but its relevant.  Sorry about the shithead cousin.  Come to think of it I don't have one single family member that could be considered a "shovel and lime" friend.  I know some guys I served with that would have snatched your cousins phone before he posted it to facebook, its that serious...family is sometimes the ones that will ruin your day, that's a shame
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Need To Know Basis - ONLY  

Oh and FUCK FACEBOOK!  
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 3:30:03 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:

Need To Know Basis - ONLY  

Oh and FUCK FACEBOOK!  
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You're posting on social media.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 3:42:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You're posting on social media.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Need To Know Basis - ONLY  

Oh and FUCK FACEBOOK!  

You're posting on social media.



In a way yes ..... but not in the way of FACEBOOK !!!!!

FUCK FACEBOOK !!!!!
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 5:09:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I know the agent that we talked to was so full of derp it was mind blowing. He was all good thing you called you have no idea how dangerous this thing is Good thing the good guys are getting it instead of it falling into the wrong hands etc etc.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Reason why...a mindset of..."one more evil black rifle off the streets"...prolly isn't too far off, in this case.


I know the agent that we talked to was so full of derp it was mind blowing. He was all good thing you called you have no idea how dangerous this thing is Good thing the good guys are getting it instead of it falling into the wrong hands etc etc.


Under no circumstance should you EVER try to receive legal advice from law enforcement or a government agency.  NEVER EVER NEVER.  They are not there to help you and they will never be your advocate. Lesson learned.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 5:49:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Given everything else, I'm glad to hear you're not looking at being in trouble. I think you all made the best decision you could. But if that was my cousin, I'd have beat the brakes off of him for putting anything like that on Facebook, regardless of the (correct) decision to turn in the rifle to the ATF.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 6:02:56 PM EDT
[#38]


Thers no way I would let anything go but the stripped lower and the DIAS. I don't care what anyone says.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 6:11:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Blame the user, not the tool.

Also, FIFY.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



In a way yes ..... but not in the way of FACEBOOK !!!!!

FUCK FACEBOOK THE BATFE !!!!!
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Need To Know Basis - ONLY  

Oh and FUCK FACEBOOK!  

You're posting on social media.



In a way yes ..... but not in the way of FACEBOOK !!!!!

FUCK FACEBOOK THE BATFE !!!!!


ETA: Just to be clear, I am not advocating illegal activity, I am simply announcing my displeasure with their ruling.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 6:12:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Sorry to hear of your loss OP. Both Uncle and SP1.



You can sleep like a baby at night. You made the right call considering the circumstances.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 7:08:44 PM EDT
[#41]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Under no circumstance should you EVER try to receive legal advice from law enforcement or a government agency. NEVER EVER NEVER.  They are not there to help you and they will never be your advocate. Lesson learned.

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Reason why...a mindset of..."one more evil black rifle off the streets"...prolly isn't too far off, in this case.




I know the agent that we talked to was so full of derp it was mind blowing. He was all good thing you called you have no idea how dangerous this thing is Good thing the good guys are getting it instead of it falling into the wrong hands etc etc.




Under no circumstance should you EVER try to receive legal advice from law enforcement or a government agency. NEVER EVER NEVER.  They are not there to help you and they will never be your advocate. Lesson learned.




Lawyers are where you get legal advice from... not Facebook, not cops or any government agency.



Yes, it is true that once a mg, always a mg but here the mg was the DIAS, not the SP-1.  You can take a DIAS out of one rifle and put in it another.  If the cops were correct, then you would have 2 mgs, not one.




Even if they were correct that the SP-1 was an illegal mg, then you would have had to surrendered the receiver, not the upper or rest of the parts.






 


Link Posted: 11/24/2014 7:50:38 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:


Lawyers are where you get legal advice from... not Facebook, not cops or any government agency.

Yes, it is true that once a mg, always a mg but here the mg was the DIAS, not the SP-1.  You can take a DIAS out of one rifle and put in it another.  If the cops were correct, then you would have 2 mgs, not one.


Even if they were correct that the SP-1 was an illegal mg, then you would have had to surrendered the receiver, not the upper or rest of the parts.


 


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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Reason why...a mindset of..."one more evil black rifle off the streets"...prolly isn't too far off, in this case.


I know the agent that we talked to was so full of derp it was mind blowing. He was all good thing you called you have no idea how dangerous this thing is Good thing the good guys are getting it instead of it falling into the wrong hands etc etc.


Under no circumstance should you EVER try to receive legal advice from law enforcement or a government agency. NEVER EVER NEVER.  They are not there to help you and they will never be your advocate. Lesson learned.


Lawyers are where you get legal advice from... not Facebook, not cops or any government agency.

Yes, it is true that once a mg, always a mg but here the mg was the DIAS, not the SP-1.  You can take a DIAS out of one rifle and put in it another.  If the cops were correct, then you would have 2 mgs, not one.


Even if they were correct that the SP-1 was an illegal mg, then you would have had to surrendered the receiver, not the upper or rest of the parts.


 




And there is added precedent for this with the government allowing pistols to become rifles and then back to pistols again.  The old "once a rifle, always a rifle" is no longer the case.  And it's unlikely that a unregistered drop-in auto sear has the power to turn anything it touches into a machine gun, just as a registered drop-in auto sear doesn't have the power to makes it's host weapon an NFA firearm.  

Of course your problem, now, is that you informed the government you were in possession of an illegal machine gun.  What's really bad is there's nothing protecting you from being charged anyway, at this point, unless, of course, you got immunity from prosecution in writing as an agreement for turning in the weapon.  This is where you hope the agents aren't lying to you.  It's not illegal for them to lie to you.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 8:17:47 PM EDT
[#43]
The only thing i would say is:

You were the one that identified the fact that it had M16 parts and a DIAS, If you had said, "oh this is just a very nice Semi-auto gun" and then converted it back to semi auto, none would be the wiser.

Too bad for the SP1.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 8:28:29 PM EDT
[#44]
We live in an age where freedom is in decline.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 8:31:39 PM EDT
[#45]
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Technically NO. The only legal m16 part you can have is the BCG. There has been alot of grey area and flakyness on the part of the ATF on this issue.  And believe me it wasn't my call to make. And based off of what the ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun". Yes I realize there would have been no way of knowing but the risk just isn't worth the reward and we did the right thing. I got my fill of shooting FA in the military. Granted if it was able to be legally transferred I would have bought it up in a heart beat but it wasn't.
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Had you just destroyed the DIAS .... an O/A Welding Torch would have done the job .... and kept the firearm intact would it have still been legal.

Are the M16 FCG parts in a 1979 vintage AR legal today?



Technically NO. The only legal m16 part you can have is the BCG. There has been alot of grey area and flakyness on the part of the ATF on this issue.  And believe me it wasn't my call to make. And based off of what the ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun". Yes I realize there would have been no way of knowing but the risk just isn't worth the reward and we did the right thing. I got my fill of shooting FA in the military. Granted if it was able to be legally transferred I would have bought it up in a heart beat but it wasn't.


No, no, and no.  You destroyed a perfectly legal rifle for absolutely no reason.  Pull the FCG and DIAS, install Colt semi auto parts, and you're done.  ATF confirmed it wasn't on the registry, which means someone put full auto FCG and DIAS in a semi auto.  There is no auto sear pin hole.

This was a perfectly legal SP-1 in correct configuration with a mere FCG change.  It was never a machinegun. No serial number posted on fb, no case.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 8:57:40 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:


No, no, and no.  You destroyed a perfectly legal rifle for absolutely no reason.  Pull the FCG and DIAS, install Colt semi auto parts, and you're done.  ATF confirmed it wasn't on the registry, which means someone put full auto FCG and DIAS in a semi auto.  There is no auto sear pin hole.

This was a perfectly legal SP-1 in correct configuration with a mere FCG change.  It was never a machinegun. No serial number posted on fb, no case.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Had you just destroyed the DIAS .... an O/A Welding Torch would have done the job .... and kept the firearm intact would it have still been legal.

Are the M16 FCG parts in a 1979 vintage AR legal today?



Technically NO. The only legal m16 part you can have is the BCG. There has been alot of grey area and flakyness on the part of the ATF on this issue.  And believe me it wasn't my call to make. And based off of what the ATF agent said it would NOT have been legal under " once a machine gun always a machine gun". Yes I realize there would have been no way of knowing but the risk just isn't worth the reward and we did the right thing. I got my fill of shooting FA in the military. Granted if it was able to be legally transferred I would have bought it up in a heart beat but it wasn't.


No, no, and no.  You destroyed a perfectly legal rifle for absolutely no reason.  Pull the FCG and DIAS, install Colt semi auto parts, and you're done.  ATF confirmed it wasn't on the registry, which means someone put full auto FCG and DIAS in a semi auto.  There is no auto sear pin hole.

This was a perfectly legal SP-1 in correct configuration with a mere FCG change.  It was never a machinegun. No serial number posted on fb, no case.

This^^
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 9:55:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Prior to Nov 1981 the so called drop in auto sear's were unregulated and were available through shotgun news and other publications. The ATF managed to get them classified as a machinegun requiring registration. Those made before that date were grandfathered and are still legal to own.  The down side to this is that if you own a pre Nov 1981 auto sear and a AR-15 type firearm you commit conspiracy to manufacture a unregistered machinegun.  

From Nov 1981 to May 1986, interest in registering a M16 style drop in auto sear was limited.  Most people who wanted an  M-16 bought the real thing or had their SP1 converted with a real sear.  A new in the box M16A1 was about $700 and  your SP1 could be converted for about $300.

The May 1996 Machinegun moratorium didn't take effect until 90 days after the law was passed.  Interest in cranking out as many registered sears as possible before the time ran out went into overdrive. They were easier and much cheaper to make than a complete firearm.    

Now that you have a little background, the level of what had to be turned in would depend on the level of knowledge and interest level of the ATF Agent.  If the original owner was caught with it, all would be contraband. Since it was an estate item, some agents would allow just the bad parts to be turned in. Sounds like you don't have that option.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 9:58:23 PM EDT
[#48]
This story also reminds me of an article I read in Road and Track about 25 years ago.

A guy buys a non running car from a Federal auction and determines that the in tank fuel pump is bad. When he dropped the fuel tank, he found about $50,000 in cash blocking fuel flow. Being the "good" citizen, He turnd  the cash back over to our Uncle Sam.  The guy then decides "Hey wait a minute!! I bought the car "as is" and it should include the cash!!!!" and sues the Govt to get the money back.

Guess what... he didnt get it.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 10:49:10 PM EDT
[#49]
I remember seeing DIASs at gun shows back around 78-81ish... There was one table that had a large bucket, that was chock full of the unregistered (then legal to make) DIAS. Prolly over 100 sears in it. $50 a piece. All day long.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:14:02 AM EDT
[#50]
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Quoted:
I remember seeing DIASs at gun shows back around 78-81ish... There was one table that had a large bucket, that was chock full of the unregistered (then legal to make) DIAS. Prolly over 100 sears in it. $50 a piece. All day long.
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If we only knew then what we know now!
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