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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/19/2006 6:43:49 AM EDT
Everyone,

Can we try to get the original AR-180s and SP1s classified as a C&R gun?

Being they are almost 50 years old and have sustatial moneytary value, do you think this is a possibility?


Scott
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:46:04 AM EDT
As they both have features banned in some states and are Evil Black Rifles, I wouldn't expect the BATFE to do us any favors in that department. They are probably still pissed over the AWB expiring.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:47:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lancew:
As they both have features banned in some states and are Evil Black Rifles, I wouldn't expect the BATFE to do us any favors in that department. They are probably still pissed over the AWB expiring.



Machine guns are banned in some states and some are CR guns.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:10:26 AM EDT
If I remember correctly, even the UZI is a C&R? Both model A and B.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:13:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Everyone,

Can we try to get the original AR-180s and SP1s classified as a C&R gun?

Being they are almost 50 years old and have sustatial moneytary value, do you think this is a possibility?


Scott



Scotty,
it has beeen a while since I've thought about this subject but I 'THINK' maybe some of the original AR-180's may al;ready be C&R. (Not certain though and I know all AR-180's are not C&R.) Remember there are three distinct groups of AR-180's - Costa Mesa, Howa and Sterling.



5sub
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:54:56 AM EDT
my C&R book is packed away, but i thought that some of the Costa Mesa marked AR15 (semi) were C&R. i know that the full auto Costa Mesa AR15 model 01 are C&R

wish i had my book to get the actual nomenclature correct.
maybe i'll head over to the ATF web site and check.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:19:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 8:30:55 AM EDT by advntrjnky]
found the info! most are FA, but it looks like there are 1500 semi AR15s that qualify as C&R.

semi rifles:
Colt AR-15 Sporter "The Viet Nam Tribute Colt Special Edition" .223 cal. semiautomatic rifle, bearing the American Historical Foundation registry numbers of VT0001 through VT1500.

select fire rifles:
• Armalite, AR 10, 1955, cal. 7.62mm NATO submachinegun, made by the Armalite Div. Of Fairchild Engine & Airplane Co., Costa Mesa, CA prior to 1961.
• Armalite AR-15, .222 Remington or.223 cals., produced by Armalite.
• Armalite AR-15, Model 601,.223 cal., mfd. by Colt. Must be marked "Armalite."
• Armalite, AR-18, selective fire rifle, cal. .223, prod. by Armalite, Costa Mesa, CA.

some very early semi AR15s should have C&R status in the coming years by the "50 year rule"

edit: to aswer your question. a couple of years ago i asked a similar question, the answer i got was that it woudl prob be easier to get a specific serial# weapon reclassified as a C&R instead of a whole class. how would you prove the collectability cut- off at a certain serial # for an SP1. it would be easier to prove that a specific weapon has collector value.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 9:20:20 AM EDT
been doing some more research. the original Costa Mesa Armalite AR 180 from your initial question may be a good prospect.

from Wikipedia:
Small numbers were later produced[by Armalite, Costa Mesa] as the AR-180 for the civilian market between 1969 and 1972.

i know Wiki isn't 100% reliable, but i am still digging. i'm going to try and find the production #s for Costa Mesa. If you could get someone to back the proposal that is pretty good working around the BATF&E it may have a chance. maybe someone like Dan Shea of LMO/SAR mag, or Mark Westrom that owns the Armalite trade mark now. if it isn't a thorough job i would think it would hurt any further chance in the future, because the ATF could just say "we already ruled on it".
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 10:20:25 AM EDT
i found the production numbers in the Armalite.com library.

Costa Mesa ('69-'72)- AR18= 1,171 (already C&R)
AR180= 4,018

Howa ('70-'74, '67?)-AR180= 3,927

Sterling ('75-'83) - AR180 = 12,362

with the Costa Mesa AR18 already C&R the Costa Mesa AR180 might have a good chance of getting C&R status with the proper backing.

**sorry for all the posts, i'm done for a bit now**

advntrjnky
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:48:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Everyone,

Can we try to get the original AR-180s and SP1s classified as a C&R gun?

Being they are almost 50 years old and have sustatial moneytary value, do you think this is a possibility?


Scott



The BATF is sure to change the rules so that cosmetic features prevent some weapons from being C&R. Is 50 years enough for C&R though. Authentic Garands and M1 Carbine arent classified as C&R I dont think? Does anyone know for sure?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:39:12 PM EDT
Variablebinary:
50 years is the magic # for C&R. at 50 all weapons become C&R. all original USGI manufactured M1/M2 carbines are C&R. all original USGI M1 garands are C&R up to 1957. evil features have no bearing on C&R status. if you go to the ATF website click on publications, and thenfirearms publications. it has a PDF version of the C&R rules.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:53:01 PM EDT
The Short Version

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT ARE CURIOS OR RELICS?
As set out in the regulations (27 CFR 178.11), curios or relics include firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1.) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
2.) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3.) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.


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Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:13:17 PM EDT
anyone else have any comment?
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