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Posted: 12/9/2013 7:51:30 AM EST
Hello,

Thanks to everyone here helping me in my previous threads I am inching closer to gathering all of the information I need for my next AR-15 style rifle. I am on the quest to buy/build the most reliable AR-15 (carbine) possible. Right now it is between a Colt with some after-market adds or a KAC SR-15.

I am honestly leaning towards the SR-15 since it has everything pretty much ready to go out of the box. The only thing I would add/change is getting some parts NiBed.

But before I move forward I was hoping to here from the experts here about the SR-15 and if it is really want I hear some people say it is.

Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:04:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Hello,

Thanks to everyone here helping me in my previous threads I am inching closer to gathering all of the information I need for my next AR-15 style rifle. I am on the quest to buy/build the most reliable AR-15 (carbine) possible. Right now it is between a Colt with some after-market adds or a KAC SR-15.

I am honestly leaning towards the SR-15 since it has everything pretty much ready to go out of the box. The only thing I would add/change is getting some parts NiBed.

But before I move forward I was hoping to here from the experts here about the SR-15 and if it is really want I hear some people say it is.

Thanks in advance!
View Quote


Google "KAC SR-15 ar15.com". you should find a ton of reading material. The consensus is, buy it!
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:23:16 AM EST
Thanks, I have been looking through some of the older post there. But I saw some post talk about the "new production" ones having some different features like auto BCG, and something with the trigger I think.

So I wasnt sure if there was a difference between the ones now and the older ones in these other threads.

Why are the SR-15s so much better? They are DI guns right?
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:45:17 AM EST
They are the most impressive, over engineered AR pattern weapon available.....and I have two Noveske's,a Colt 6920 and LWRC SPR(just sold it). If I could only grab one, it would be my SR15. Like many have said, shoot one....and you will buy one
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:50:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SGLA2110:
They are the most impressive, over engineered AR pattern weapon available.....and I have two Noveske's,a Colt 6920 and LWRC SPR(just sold it). If I could only grab one, it would be my SR15. Like many have said, shoot one....and you will buy one
View Quote


This. Save yourself the time, and just buy one already.

Beware, they multiply quickly:









I've yet to snap a pic of my LPR.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:53:05 AM EST
I was going to get one awhile back then the whole Newtown thing happened and could not find them and I ended up buying a SCAR 17 right before the shooting.

I say good to go they are sweet rifles.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:53:29 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Thanks, I have been looking through some of the older post there. But I saw some post talk about the "new production" ones having some different features like auto BCG, and something with the trigger I think.

So I wasnt sure if there was a difference between the ones now and the older ones in these other threads.

Why are the SR-15s so much better? They are DI guns right?
View Quote


KAC makes a very good rifle but being "so much better", maybe not. I still think you can build a better rifle on your own. Their new keymod rail is very nice, FWIW. The E3 bolt might be the new part, IDK. They are DI guns.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 9:04:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By SGLA2110:
They are the most impressive, over engineered AR pattern weapon available.....and I have two Noveske's,a Colt 6920 and LWRC SPR(just sold it). If I could only grab one, it would be my SR15. Like many have said, shoot one....and you will buy one


This. Save yourself the time, and just buy one already.

Beware, they multiply quickly:

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/FE3C1F01-8900-448E-87DC-4C3443F59A2A-10573-000006C28F15A40E_zpsbd7ba53b.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/767D2287-EF71-4741-B129-F57031B1C0FA-28973-00000EC6275C75FE_zps1c6491d7.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/Mobile%20Uploads/0B226736-CB91-4C1F-B21F-41F68D6CBF5B_zps05wsryq4.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/E981BCA7-3DA7-4BC9-BBFA-26EAEFF57FB5_zpsgbxzxapt.jpg

I've yet to snap a pic of my LPR.


Wow. Very nice. Are those 14.5 cut from a 16" or did you get the 14.5 SBR directly? I've been trying to decide between KAC and a colt (use the extra cash for upgrades) seems like a kac is the way to go.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 9:10:31 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By SGLA2110:
They are the most impressive, over engineered AR pattern weapon available.....and I have two Noveske's,a Colt 6920 and LWRC SPR(just sold it). If I could only grab one, it would be my SR15. Like many have said, shoot one....and you will buy one


This. Save yourself the time, and just buy one already.

Beware, they multiply quickly:

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/FE3C1F01-8900-448E-87DC-4C3443F59A2A-10573-000006C28F15A40E_zpsbd7ba53b.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/767D2287-EF71-4741-B129-F57031B1C0FA-28973-00000EC6275C75FE_zps1c6491d7.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/Mobile%20Uploads/0B226736-CB91-4C1F-B21F-41F68D6CBF5B_zps05wsryq4.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/E981BCA7-3DA7-4BC9-BBFA-26EAEFF57FB5_zpsgbxzxapt.jpg

I've yet to snap a pic of my LPR.


Nice
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 9:13:39 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By leavemealone:


Wow. Very nice. Are those 14.5 cut from a 16" or did you get the 14.5 SBR directly? I've been trying to decide between KAC and a colt (use the extra cash for upgrades) seems like a kac is the way to go.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By leavemealone:
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By SGLA2110:
They are the most impressive, over engineered AR pattern weapon available.....and I have two Noveske's,a Colt 6920 and LWRC SPR(just sold it). If I could only grab one, it would be my SR15. Like many have said, shoot one....and you will buy one


This. Save yourself the time, and just buy one already.

Beware, they multiply quickly:

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/FE3C1F01-8900-448E-87DC-4C3443F59A2A-10573-000006C28F15A40E_zpsbd7ba53b.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/767D2287-EF71-4741-B129-F57031B1C0FA-28973-00000EC6275C75FE_zps1c6491d7.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/Mobile%20Uploads/0B226736-CB91-4C1F-B21F-41F68D6CBF5B_zps05wsryq4.jpg

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/AR-Ryan21/E981BCA7-3DA7-4BC9-BBFA-26EAEFF57FB5_zpsgbxzxapt.jpg

I've yet to snap a pic of my LPR.


Wow. Very nice. Are those 14.5 cut from a 16" or did you get the 14.5 SBR directly? I've been trying to decide between KAC and a colt (use the extra cash for upgrades) seems like a kac is the way to go.


In the first pic, it's a Mod 1 on top, and two factory 14.5" SR-15 dimpled Carbines below it.

I recently had one of the 14.5" Carbines cerakoted FDE - that's the bottom pic.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 10:43:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 10:44:46 AM EST by Blain]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:


KAC makes a very good rifle but being "so much better", maybe not. I still think you can build a better rifle on your own. Their new keymod rail is very nice, FWIW. The E3 bolt might be the new part, IDK. They are DI guns.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Thanks, I have been looking through some of the older post there. But I saw some post talk about the "new production" ones having some different features like auto BCG, and something with the trigger I think.

So I wasnt sure if there was a difference between the ones now and the older ones in these other threads.

Why are the SR-15s so much better? They are DI guns right?


KAC makes a very good rifle but being "so much better", maybe not. I still think you can build a better rifle on your own. Their new keymod rail is very nice, FWIW. The E3 bolt might be the new part, IDK. They are DI guns.



Maybe I'm missing it. But aside from a proprietary enhanced bolt, what exactly makes this rifle that much better than any other AR with a CHF barrel? I can understand some added features to accommodate certain user preferences and taste, but it doesn't seem all that revolutionary to me. the rail is nice, but I'd prefer a standard handguard, or a troy viking tactics alpha rail.

Incorporating an LMT enhanced bolt into your gun, would pretty much give you the same thing at a fraction of the cost.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 10:56:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blain:



Maybe I'm missing it. But aside from a proprietary enhanced bolt, what exactly makes this rifle that much better than any other AR with a CHF barrel? I can understand some added features to accommodate certain user preferences and taste, but it doesn't seem all that revolutionary to me. the rail is nice, but I'd prefer a standard handguard, or a troy viking tactics alpha rail.

Incorporating an LMT enhanced bolt into your gun, would pretty much give you the same thing at a fraction of the cost.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blain:
Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Thanks, I have been looking through some of the older post there. But I saw some post talk about the "new production" ones having some different features like auto BCG, and something with the trigger I think.

So I wasnt sure if there was a difference between the ones now and the older ones in these other threads.

Why are the SR-15s so much better? They are DI guns right?


KAC makes a very good rifle but being "so much better", maybe not. I still think you can build a better rifle on your own. Their new keymod rail is very nice, FWIW. The E3 bolt might be the new part, IDK. They are DI guns.



Maybe I'm missing it. But aside from a proprietary enhanced bolt, what exactly makes this rifle that much better than any other AR with a CHF barrel? I can understand some added features to accommodate certain user preferences and taste, but it doesn't seem all that revolutionary to me. the rail is nice, but I'd prefer a standard handguard, or a troy viking tactics alpha rail.

Incorporating an LMT enhanced bolt into your gun, would pretty much give you the same thing at a fraction of the cost.


That E3 bolt alone is worth the cost of admission. Show me a broken E3 bolt...good luck. You'd be lucky to just replace 4 milspec bolts before the time where an E3 bolt would even possibly give out on you.

KAC also finely tunes the gas systems on every one of their factory rifles to yield the smoothest shooting rifle possible. This is where the "just fire a KAC once, and you'll end up buying one" type comments most often come from. The look on some people's faces after they first fire a KAC can be pretty priceless...even those already with a ton of trigger time behind the AR platform.

On top of that, when you consider the entire package you get with a factory KAC rifle, they are actually bargains. The E3 bolt, best iron sights available on the market, one of if not the best rifle length free floated handguards available on the market, full ambi controls (safeties, bolt catches, mag releases), SOPMOD stock, 4.5 pound two-stage match trigger, etc. It's the most turnkey factory rifle you can find. There's no other factory rifle I'd even remotely be content with keeping stock aside from an SR-15.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 11:16:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 11:33:23 AM EST by Blain]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:


That E3 bolt alone is worth the cost of admission. Show me a broken E3 bolt...good luck. You'd be lucky to just replace 4 milspec bolts before the time where an E3 bolt would even possibly give out on you.

KAC also finely tunes the gas systems on every one of their factory rifles to yield the smoothest shooting rifle possible. This is where the "just fire a KAC once, and you'll end up buying one" type comments most often come from. The look on some people's faces after they first fire a KAC can be pretty priceless...even those already with a ton of trigger time behind the AR platform.

On top of that, when you consider the entire package you get with a factory KAC rifle, they are actually bargains. The E3 bolt, best iron sights available on the market, one of if not the best rifle length free floated handguards available on the market, full ambi controls (safeties, bolt catches, mag releases), SOPMOD stock, 4.5 pound two-stage match trigger, etc. It's the most turnkey factory rifle you can find. There's no other factory rifle I'd even remotely be content with keeping stock aside from an SR-15.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By Blain:
Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Thanks, I have been looking through some of the older post there. But I saw some post talk about the "new production" ones having some different features like auto BCG, and something with the trigger I think.

So I wasnt sure if there was a difference between the ones now and the older ones in these other threads.

Why are the SR-15s so much better? They are DI guns right?


KAC makes a very good rifle but being "so much better", maybe not. I still think you can build a better rifle on your own. Their new keymod rail is very nice, FWIW. The E3 bolt might be the new part, IDK. They are DI guns.



Maybe I'm missing it. But aside from a proprietary enhanced bolt, what exactly makes this rifle that much better than any other AR with a CHF barrel? I can understand some added features to accommodate certain user preferences and taste, but it doesn't seem all that revolutionary to me. the rail is nice, but I'd prefer a standard handguard, or a troy viking tactics alpha rail.

Incorporating an LMT enhanced bolt into your gun, would pretty much give you the same thing at a fraction of the cost.


That E3 bolt alone is worth the cost of admission. Show me a broken E3 bolt...good luck. You'd be lucky to just replace 4 milspec bolts before the time where an E3 bolt would even possibly give out on you.

KAC also finely tunes the gas systems on every one of their factory rifles to yield the smoothest shooting rifle possible. This is where the "just fire a KAC once, and you'll end up buying one" type comments most often come from. The look on some people's faces after they first fire a KAC can be pretty priceless...even those already with a ton of trigger time behind the AR platform.

On top of that, when you consider the entire package you get with a factory KAC rifle, they are actually bargains. The E3 bolt, best iron sights available on the market, one of if not the best rifle length free floated handguards available on the market, full ambi controls (safeties, bolt catches, mag releases), SOPMOD stock, 4.5 pound two-stage match trigger, etc. It's the most turnkey factory rifle you can find. There's no other factory rifle I'd even remotely be content with keeping stock aside from an SR-15.


I don't use the term often, but this post screams of "fanboyism".

Couple of things here. Even if the bolt does last 3 times as long, 2 spare bolt replacements (or upgrading to an LMT Enhanced bolt) will set you back a lot less than the $1k premium for this rifle. An LMT enhanced bolt will also last at LEAST as long as that E3 bolt (most likely longer), and you can see where the E3 bolt ripped off the LMT extractor lobster tail design from. Also, unlike the E3 bolt, the LMT enhanced bolt is actually made with a steel much stronger than C-158 or 9310. Aermet 100 steel. Look it up (around 200% stronger than C-158 steel).

Can you find me an example of where an LMT enhanced bolt broke? I know of someone who specifically only uses LMT enhanced bolts for their 7.62x39, because all other interations of AR bolts eventually break and fail him even other companies "super" bolts (he runs his gun suppressed). He has YET to break an LMT enhanced bolt. More on that below.

Do all of your ARs have LMT enhanced bolts? Why not?

Thirdly, I just plain out laugh when you claim it has "the best iron sights on the planet". First of all, no bolt on iron sight is going to be sturdier or more durable than fixed integrated sights, IE fixed carry handle and FSB. Never mind a FOLDING clamp on iron sight. It makes an adequate backup sight at best. Secondly, I hardly think of their micro folding rear as even the best back up iron sight! It's a serviceable back up iron sight, but far from the best.

It doesn't seem like much of a bargain to me. Firstly, I have no desire for ambi controls, sopmod stocks, or two stage triggers. I can get a rail just as good, if not better, for $150 (Troy) if I desire one on my AR which I typically don't. And if I did desire any / all of those features, I could build a rifle up with them for much less than the cost of that rifle.

If that rifle is your ideal package, and you like it, then good for you.

It seems way over hyped to me, and you can build a rifle just as good, if not better, for substantially less. Not knocking it, but it is far from the unique "holy grail" of ARs that many hype it up to be.


LMT ENHANCED BOLT
Oh, and in case you think I'm joking about the LMT bolt, here is some more info on it.



Amphibian, a member here, runs a 7.5" 7.62x39 AR and has broken every bolt out there for 7.62 except one....the no longer made LMT enhanced 7.62 bolt. It is the only bolt he has never had break, oh and BTW he runs full auto. That says a lot, even LWRC's bolt cracked at the lugs.

If the 7.62 variant can survive 7,000+ full auto 7.62x39, just imagine their 5.56 variant.

Here is a video showing how he runs his 7.62x39 AR....LMT the only bolt to never break.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/24DB488D4B50482784F77C64CC254FAA/7-5-7-62x39-upper-w-mgi-modu.aspx

Link Posted: 12/9/2013 11:48:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 11:51:36 AM EST by Spent_Casing]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blain:


I don't use the term often, but this post screams of "fanboyism".

Couple of things here. Even if the bolt does last 3 times as long, 2 spare bolt replacements (or upgrading to an LMT Enhanced bolt) will set you back a lot less than the $1k premium for this rifle. An LMT enhanced bolt will also last at LEAST as long as that E3 bolt (most likely longer), and you can see where the E3 bolt ripped off the LMT extractor lobster tail design from. Also, unlike the E3 bolt, the LMT enhanced bolt is actually made with a steel much stronger than C-158 or 9310. Aermet 100 steel. Look it up (around 200% stronger than C-158 steel).

Can you find me an example of where an LMT enhanced bolt broke? I know of someone who specifically only uses LMT enhanced bolts for their 7.62x39, because all other interations of AR bolts eventually break and fail him even other companies "super" bolts (he runs his gun suppressed). He has YET to break an LMT enhanced bolt. More on that below.

Do all of your ARs have LMT enhanced bolts? Why not?

Thirdly, I just plain out laugh when you claim it has "the best iron sights on the planet". First of all, no bolt on iron sight is going to be sturdier or more durable than fixed integrated sights, IE fixed carry handle and FSB. Never mind a FOLDING clamp on iron sight. It makes an adequate backup sight at best. Secondly, I hardly think of their micro folding rear as even the best back up iron sight! It's a serviceable back up iron sight, but far from the best.

It doesn't seem like much of a bargain to me. Firstly, I have no desire for ambi controls, sopmod stocks, or two stage triggers. I can get a rail just as good, if not better, for $150 (Troy) if I desire one on my AR which I typically don't. And if I did desire any / all of those features, I could build a rifle up with them for much less than the cost of that rifle.

If that rifle is your ideal package, and you like it, then good for you.

It seems way over hyped to me, and you can build a rifle just as good, if not better, for substantially less. Not knocking it, but it is far from the unique "holy grail" of ARs that many hype it up to be.


LMT ENHANCED BOLT
Oh, and in case you think I'm joking about the LMT bolt, here is some more info on it.

http://www.c3junkie.com/m16/762/all.jpg

Amphibian, a member here, runs a 7.5" 7.62x39 AR and has broken every bolt out there for 7.62 except one....the no longer made LMT enhanced 7.62 bolt. It is the only bolt he has never had break, oh and BTW he runs full auto. That says a lot, even LWRC's bolt cracked at the lugs.

If the 7.62 variant can survive 7,000+ full auto 7.62x39, just imagine their 5.56 variant.

Here is a video showing how he runs his 7.62x39 AR....LMT the only bolt to never break.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/24DB488D4B50482784F77C64CC254FAA/7-5-7-62x39-upper-w-mgi-modu.aspx

View Quote

Sorry buddy but you dont have a clue as to what you are talking about. Your whole post screams willful ignorance it seems. I give you a few examples to jump start your research.

1. KAC E3 bolts are not C158 as you claim.
2. LMT bolts still have square lugs. While getting schooled on what you clearly dont know, ask any engineer why they prefer arches on bridges.
3. LMT and KAC relationship together.


Just the tip of the iceberg. Please report back with your findings and contribute something worthwhile to the site. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:05:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 12:08:19 PM EST by Blain]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:

Sorry buddy but you dont have a clue as to what you are talking about. Your whole post screams willful ignorance it seems. I give you a few examples to jump start your research.

1. KAC E3 bolts are not C158 as you claim.
2. LMT bolts still have square lugs. While getting schooled on what you clearly dont know, ask any engineer why they prefer arches on bridges.
3. LMT and KAC relationship together.


Just the tip of the iceberg. Please report back with your findings and contribute something worthwhile to the site. Thanks.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Originally Posted By Blain:


I don't use the term often, but this post screams of "fanboyism".

Couple of things here. Even if the bolt does last 3 times as long, 2 spare bolt replacements (or upgrading to an LMT Enhanced bolt) will set you back a lot less than the $1k premium for this rifle. An LMT enhanced bolt will also last at LEAST as long as that E3 bolt (most likely longer), and you can see where the E3 bolt ripped off the LMT extractor lobster tail design from. Also, unlike the E3 bolt, the LMT enhanced bolt is actually made with a steel much stronger than C-158 or 9310. Aermet 100 steel. Look it up (around 200% stronger than C-158 steel).

Can you find me an example of where an LMT enhanced bolt broke? I know of someone who specifically only uses LMT enhanced bolts for their 7.62x39, because all other interations of AR bolts eventually break and fail him even other companies "super" bolts (he runs his gun suppressed). He has YET to break an LMT enhanced bolt. More on that below.

Do all of your ARs have LMT enhanced bolts? Why not?

Thirdly, I just plain out laugh when you claim it has "the best iron sights on the planet". First of all, no bolt on iron sight is going to be sturdier or more durable than fixed integrated sights, IE fixed carry handle and FSB. Never mind a FOLDING clamp on iron sight. It makes an adequate backup sight at best. Secondly, I hardly think of their micro folding rear as even the best back up iron sight! It's a serviceable back up iron sight, but far from the best.

It doesn't seem like much of a bargain to me. Firstly, I have no desire for ambi controls, sopmod stocks, or two stage triggers. I can get a rail just as good, if not better, for $150 (Troy) if I desire one on my AR which I typically don't. And if I did desire any / all of those features, I could build a rifle up with them for much less than the cost of that rifle.

If that rifle is your ideal package, and you like it, then good for you.

It seems way over hyped to me, and you can build a rifle just as good, if not better, for substantially less. Not knocking it, but it is far from the unique "holy grail" of ARs that many hype it up to be.


LMT ENHANCED BOLT
Oh, and in case you think I'm joking about the LMT bolt, here is some more info on it.

http://www.c3junkie.com/m16/762/all.jpg

Amphibian, a member here, runs a 7.5" 7.62x39 AR and has broken every bolt out there for 7.62 except one....the no longer made LMT enhanced 7.62 bolt. It is the only bolt he has never had break, oh and BTW he runs full auto. That says a lot, even LWRC's bolt cracked at the lugs.

If the 7.62 variant can survive 7,000+ full auto 7.62x39, just imagine their 5.56 variant.

Here is a video showing how he runs his 7.62x39 AR....LMT the only bolt to never break.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/24DB488D4B50482784F77C64CC254FAA/7-5-7-62x39-upper-w-mgi-modu.aspx


Sorry buddy but you dont have a clue as to what you are talking about. Your whole post screams willful ignorance it seems. I give you a few examples to jump start your research.

1. KAC E3 bolts are not C158 as you claim.
2. LMT bolts still have square lugs. While getting schooled on what you clearly dont know, ask any engineer why they prefer arches on bridges.
3. LMT and KAC relationship together.


Just the tip of the iceberg. Please report back with your findings and contribute something worthwhile to the site. Thanks.


Nothing you said discounts anything I've posted.

Can you show me an LMT bolt that broke? How much more "superior" can you get from a bolt that already doesn't break?

Can I not build a comparative rifle for much less money?

Please come back when you learn to logically counter points with facts and analyses instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:08:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 12:11:07 PM EST by Spent_Casing]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blain:


Nothing you said discounts anything I've posted.

Can you show me an LMT bolt that broke? How much more "superior" can you get from a bolt that already doesn't break?

Can I not build a comparative rifle for much less money?

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blain:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Originally Posted By Blain:


I don't use the term often, but this post screams of "fanboyism".

Couple of things here. Even if the bolt does last 3 times as long, 2 spare bolt replacements (or upgrading to an LMT Enhanced bolt) will set you back a lot less than the $1k premium for this rifle. An LMT enhanced bolt will also last at LEAST as long as that E3 bolt (most likely longer), and you can see where the E3 bolt ripped off the LMT extractor lobster tail design from. Also, unlike the E3 bolt, the LMT enhanced bolt is actually made with a steel much stronger than C-158 or 9310. Aermet 100 steel. Look it up (around 200% stronger than C-158 steel).

Can you find me an example of where an LMT enhanced bolt broke? I know of someone who specifically only uses LMT enhanced bolts for their 7.62x39, because all other interations of AR bolts eventually break and fail him even other companies "super" bolts (he runs his gun suppressed). He has YET to break an LMT enhanced bolt. More on that below.

Do all of your ARs have LMT enhanced bolts? Why not?

Thirdly, I just plain out laugh when you claim it has "the best iron sights on the planet". First of all, no bolt on iron sight is going to be sturdier or more durable than fixed integrated sights, IE fixed carry handle and FSB. Never mind a FOLDING clamp on iron sight. It makes an adequate backup sight at best. Secondly, I hardly think of their micro folding rear as even the best back up iron sight! It's a serviceable back up iron sight, but far from the best.

It doesn't seem like much of a bargain to me. Firstly, I have no desire for ambi controls, sopmod stocks, or two stage triggers. I can get a rail just as good, if not better, for $150 (Troy) if I desire one on my AR which I typically don't. And if I did desire any / all of those features, I could build a rifle up with them for much less than the cost of that rifle.

If that rifle is your ideal package, and you like it, then good for you.

It seems way over hyped to me, and you can build a rifle just as good, if not better, for substantially less. Not knocking it, but it is far from the unique "holy grail" of ARs that many hype it up to be.


LMT ENHANCED BOLT
Oh, and in case you think I'm joking about the LMT bolt, here is some more info on it.

http://www.c3junkie.com/m16/762/all.jpg

Amphibian, a member here, runs a 7.5" 7.62x39 AR and has broken every bolt out there for 7.62 except one....the no longer made LMT enhanced 7.62 bolt. It is the only bolt he has never had break, oh and BTW he runs full auto. That says a lot, even LWRC's bolt cracked at the lugs.

If the 7.62 variant can survive 7,000+ full auto 7.62x39, just imagine their 5.56 variant.

Here is a video showing how he runs his 7.62x39 AR....LMT the only bolt to never break.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/24DB488D4B50482784F77C64CC254FAA/7-5-7-62x39-upper-w-mgi-modu.aspx


Sorry buddy but you dont have a clue as to what you are talking about. Your whole post screams willful ignorance it seems. I give you a few examples to jump start your research.

1. KAC E3 bolts are not C158 as you claim.
2. LMT bolts still have square lugs. While getting schooled on what you clearly dont know, ask any engineer why they prefer arches on bridges.
3. LMT and KAC relationship together.


Just the tip of the iceberg. Please report back with your findings and contribute something worthwhile to the site. Thanks.


Nothing you said discounts anything I've posted.

Can you show me an LMT bolt that broke? How much more "superior" can you get from a bolt that already doesn't break?

Can I not build a comparative rifle for much less money?

Yep willful ignorance. Nailed it.

OP, the SR15 is a great choice. Plenty of good info as to why. Get it!

ETA: 7k on a bolt without breakage is neat. Travis Haley had 80k on an E3 bolt.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:15:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 12:18:24 PM EST by Blain]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Yep willful ignorance. Nailed it.

OP, the SR15 is a great choice. Plenty of good info as to why. Get it!

ETA: 7k on a bolt without breakage is neat. Travis Haley had 80k on an E3 bolt.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Originally Posted By Blain:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Originally Posted By Blain:


I don't use the term often, but this post screams of "fanboyism".

Couple of things here. Even if the bolt does last 3 times as long, 2 spare bolt replacements (or upgrading to an LMT Enhanced bolt) will set you back a lot less than the $1k premium for this rifle. An LMT enhanced bolt will also last at LEAST as long as that E3 bolt (most likely longer), and you can see where the E3 bolt ripped off the LMT extractor lobster tail design from. Also, unlike the E3 bolt, the LMT enhanced bolt is actually made with a steel much stronger than C-158 or 9310. Aermet 100 steel. Look it up (around 200% stronger than C-158 steel).

Can you find me an example of where an LMT enhanced bolt broke? I know of someone who specifically only uses LMT enhanced bolts for their 7.62x39, because all other interations of AR bolts eventually break and fail him even other companies "super" bolts (he runs his gun suppressed). He has YET to break an LMT enhanced bolt. More on that below.

Do all of your ARs have LMT enhanced bolts? Why not?

Thirdly, I just plain out laugh when you claim it has "the best iron sights on the planet". First of all, no bolt on iron sight is going to be sturdier or more durable than fixed integrated sights, IE fixed carry handle and FSB. Never mind a FOLDING clamp on iron sight. It makes an adequate backup sight at best. Secondly, I hardly think of their micro folding rear as even the best back up iron sight! It's a serviceable back up iron sight, but far from the best.

It doesn't seem like much of a bargain to me. Firstly, I have no desire for ambi controls, sopmod stocks, or two stage triggers. I can get a rail just as good, if not better, for $150 (Troy) if I desire one on my AR which I typically don't. And if I did desire any / all of those features, I could build a rifle up with them for much less than the cost of that rifle.

If that rifle is your ideal package, and you like it, then good for you.

It seems way over hyped to me, and you can build a rifle just as good, if not better, for substantially less. Not knocking it, but it is far from the unique "holy grail" of ARs that many hype it up to be.


LMT ENHANCED BOLT
Oh, and in case you think I'm joking about the LMT bolt, here is some more info on it.

http://www.c3junkie.com/m16/762/all.jpg

Amphibian, a member here, runs a 7.5" 7.62x39 AR and has broken every bolt out there for 7.62 except one....the no longer made LMT enhanced 7.62 bolt. It is the only bolt he has never had break, oh and BTW he runs full auto. That says a lot, even LWRC's bolt cracked at the lugs.

If the 7.62 variant can survive 7,000+ full auto 7.62x39, just imagine their 5.56 variant.

Here is a video showing how he runs his 7.62x39 AR....LMT the only bolt to never break.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/24DB488D4B50482784F77C64CC254FAA/7-5-7-62x39-upper-w-mgi-modu.aspx


Sorry buddy but you dont have a clue as to what you are talking about. Your whole post screams willful ignorance it seems. I give you a few examples to jump start your research.

1. KAC E3 bolts are not C158 as you claim.
2. LMT bolts still have square lugs. While getting schooled on what you clearly dont know, ask any engineer why they prefer arches on bridges.
3. LMT and KAC relationship together.


Just the tip of the iceberg. Please report back with your findings and contribute something worthwhile to the site. Thanks.


Nothing you said discounts anything I've posted.

Can you show me an LMT bolt that broke? How much more "superior" can you get from a bolt that already doesn't break?

Can I not build a comparative rifle for much less money?

Yep willful ignorance. Nailed it.

OP, the SR15 is a great choice. Plenty of good info as to why. Get it!

ETA: 7k on a bolt without breakage is neat. Travis Haley had 80k on an E3 bolt.


More ad hominem attacks, because no one can logically counter my irrefutable statements.

7k+ of full auto 7.62x39. No other 7.62x39 bolt could stand up to even a fraction of that round count without breaking. If you are ignorant about caliber differences and their implications necessitating different firearm part tolerances and construction, I would recommend you stop posting now, and do a bit of research to educate yourself.

In layman's terms. 7.62 is a much higher pressure cartridge, exerts a lot more pressure and wear on parts, and requires parts built to different (stronger) tolerances.

ETA: Some original M16 bolts have been in service with 40k+ rounds on them. Your point is?
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:17:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 12:27:43 PM EST by AR-Ryan21]
Show me a better AR you can put together for $2k. Keyword here is better. Issue is, even from there, it'd be subjective as to what's better, and you'd have a home built frankengun, and not a factory rifle from a highly reputable and regarded company. To each their own there.

As for the KAC micro BUIS, please name a superior BUIS on the market. Point taken regarding your FSB and carry handle comment, but let's be realistic, who is running a carry handle anymore? And even moreso, FSBs aren't all too common or popular anymore either. Most people are running flattops with optics and BUIS. Even those running FSBs are still running rear BUIS in most cases. There aren't better BUIS available than KAC. Comparing FSBS and carry handles to KAC micro BUIS is apples to oranges. Comparing any other BUIS to KAC micro BUIS is apples to apples...and you won't find another set of BUIS more highly regarded than KAC.

And shit, FSBs and carry handles or BUIS preference aside, the reality is that I was also speaking to the value in a factory KAC rifle...that's a $300 plus set of BUIS included with a factory KAC rifle.

The LMT enhanced bolt is solid too? Ok. Is it superior to the E3 bolt? I guess only time will tell. I can tell you that far more talk, praise, research and data is all over the place regarding the design and engineering of KAC's E3 bolt...take that for what it is, but I don't see how you pointing out LMT's enhanced bolt being real solid as taking anything away from the E3 bolt. The E3 bolt is designed and advertised to not fail or break, period. So far, it has lived up to that design and advertisement. Travis Haley had a KAC rifle with 70k plus round thru it...all entirely still as factory as it was when the first round was fired. Once again, you pointing out that you can also get a solid bolt in LMT's enhanced bolt is frankly not taking anything away from the E3 bolt. Shit, I can get a solid bolt from BCM as well...reality is though that I'd likely blow thru 3 or 4 of them before I'd even have to start to worry about a single E3 bolt.

An LMT ehanced bolt will likely last as long or longer than an E3 bolt? You're the first I've ever heard make that assertion. You must be privy to some info the rest of us aren't.

And where is this $1000 premium you speak of in a factory KAC rifle? Show me any rifle with anywhere near the features of a factory KAC rifle for $1000 less. I would LOVE to see that. It doesn't exist. Talks like this have been done numerous times around here. Even those who don't intend or want to own a KAC have to concede that you do need about $2k minimum to build an equal rifle to a factory KAC - and even there, you once again have a frankengun that's not going to be as smooth shooting as a KAC.

You don't need a SOPMOD stock, ambi controls or a quality handguard...we get it. That doesn't make the KAC not worth the price of admission when you consider everything you get with one.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:23:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blain:
It seems way over hyped to me, and you can build a rifle just as good, if not better, for substantially less. Not knocking it, but it is far from the unique "holy grail" of ARs that many hype it up to be.
View Quote

I'd like to see an example. The SR15 to me is almost as good as an AR gets. There are a few proprietary features you can not get elsewhere. Arguably some of those features can be upgraded so I'm curious what you think surpasses a sr15 for substantially less.

The LMT bolts are very nice. Sold mine for a gun with an E3 bolt though.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:46:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 12:50:53 PM EST by Blain]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Show me a better AR you can put together for $2k. Keyword here is better. Issue is, even from there, it'd be subjective as to what's better, and you'd have a home built frankengun, and not a factory rifle from a highly reputable and regarded company. To each their own there.

As for the KAC micro BUIS, please name a superior BUIS on the market. Point taken regarding your FSB and carry handle comment, but let's be realistic, who is running a carry handle anymore? And even moreso, FSBs aren't all too common or popular anymore either. Most people are running flattops with optics and BUIS. Even those running FSBs are still running rear BUIS in most cases. There aren't better BUIS available than KAC. Comparing FSBS and carry handles to KAC micro BUIS is apples to oranges. Comparing any other BUIS to KAC micro BUIS is apples to apples...and you won't find another set of BUIS more highly regarded than KAC.

Personally, I still run most of my guns with fixed carry handles and FSB. I am an iron sight shooter, and that's what I prefer for pure durability and KISS. However, to answer your question as to what is a better BUIS, better in terms of pure durability would be a DD A1.5. I think that is a far better and more rugged sight. If you are really anal about adjustability (back ups, afterall) I'd prefer a cut carry handle or LMT rear. Super tough, but also adjustable.


And shit, FSBs and carry handles or BUIS preference aside, the reality is that I was also speaking to the value in a factory KAC rifle...that's a $300 plus set of BUIS included with a factory KAC rifle.

The LMT enhanced bolt is solid too? Ok. Is it superior to the E3 bolt? I guess only time will tell. I can tell you that far more talk, praise, research and data is all over the place regarding the design and engineering of KAC's E3 bolt...take that for what it is, but I don't see how you pointing out LMT's enhanced bolt being real solid as taking anything away from the E3 bolt. The E3 bolt is designed and advertised to not fail or break, period. So far, it has lived up to that design and advertisement. Travis Haley had a KAC rifle with 70k plus round thru it...all entirely still as factory as it was when the first round was fired. Once again, you pointing out that you can also get a solid bolt in LMT's enhanced bolt is frankly not taking anything away from the E3 bolt. Shit, I can get a solid bolt from BCM as well...reality is though that I'd likely blow thru 3 or 4 of them before I'd even have to start to worry about a single E3 bolt.

An LMT ehanced bolt will likely last as long or longer than an E3 bolt? You're the first I've ever heard make that assertion. You must be privy to some info the rest of us aren't.

Worst case, they are on par in terms of durability and longevity. Both will likely outlast any of us trying to shoot them out. Like I said, how much better can you get than a part that never breaks? The point is, you can get equal performance in terms of bolt durability without having to buy that specific rifle.


And where is this $1000 premium you speak of in a factory KAC rifle? Show me any rifle with anywhere near the features of a factory KAC rifle for $1000 less. I would LOVE to see that. It doesn't exist. Talks like this have been done numerous times around here. Even those who don't intend or want to own a KAC have to concede that you do need about $2k minimum to build an equal rifle to a factory KAC - and even there, you once again have a frankengun that's not going to be as smooth shooting as a KAC.

It depends on what you mean by "equal" if you mean equal in terms of reliability, function, and durability, then yes, I can build that easily for a lot less. If you mean by build up a gun with the exact same features as the E3, then it could be done cheaper, but not by as much. That's the problem, the E3's "base" model incorporates a lot of features that a shooter may not want or need. Imagine only being able to buy an F-150 if it was the Platinum edition? Would it be a "good value" for all that you get? Perhaps. Would it be a lot more than you are likely to want or need? Very likely.


You don't need a SOPMOD stock, ambi controls or a quality handguard...we get it. That doesn't make the KAC not worth the price of admission when you consider everything you get with one.

Heh, "quality handguard", I see what you did there! Funny how if I don't want an aluminum rail type HD, then it is inferior. For most applications, I actually consider a rail to be "inferior" to a quality set of USGI's or magpuls.[/span][/span]
View Quote



Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:51:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:17:04 PM EST
OP... You'll find people with varying advice and opinions. If you got a KAC I don't think you'd be disappointed. That being said.. Does anyone know where the best price on a SR 15 is??? I've seen 1900-2000ish. Anything cheaper?
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:17:17 PM EST
Blain, Im a reloader. Ive probably forgotten more about chamber pressure than you will ever know.

5.56x45 = ~55k psi
7.62x39= ~45k psi

7.62x39 is HARDLY a "high-pressure" round. My old Maadi RML had a lot more than 7k through it. Does that make it superior to the SR15? Nope. Same goes for M16 bolts going 40k. Read up on gas system lengths. Then read further on KAC intermediate length while youre at it. Youre just embarrassing yourself, son.


Seriously? This thread isnt about you. It isnt about LMT vs KAC. Its about the OPs question. Unless you want to go down in internet history as the epitome as why arfcom is laughed at in the firearms community just stop. If you have something worthwhile to add to the OPs question do so. If not start your own thread about how intellectually superior you are to all us dumbass SR15 owners.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:18:30 PM EST
And thus it begins...

OP, I just had this same type of dilemma. I was asking opinions between an LMT LM8 MRP and the SR15. I decided to go with the SR15 mainly b/c it is lighter and fully ambi (I shoot lefty) That being said, I will eventually pick up an LM8 upper for my sr15 so I can run shorter, suppressed barrels much more easily due to the quick change system. Maybe even get a 300black on there as well. I own an lmt 308mwse and LOVE it btw.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:21:43 PM EST
They're nice guns, worth the money. The URX series are some of my favorite rails.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:26:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 1:31:29 PM EST by AzNooB]
Here's a rifle I built from "just parts" that served my needs better than the KAC rifles I had did.

- It will cycle steel cased .223 more reliably than my KACs did.
- It shoots more accurately than my KACs ever did - and with the "wrong trigger" and less magnification. Sub MOA 10-shot group vs 1.5-2 MOA 10-shot group.
- The barrel nut doesn't require a proprietary $100 tool to install/uninstall and is much stronger. There's much less flexing in this one.
- I can remove my rail and reinstall it and maintain BUIS/laser/optics zero.
- Increased dwell time from the midlength gas system so I don't have to have a wide gas port to maintain enough pressure to cycle the bolt. This leaves for a smoother shooting gun (Same reason a 11.5" shoots much smoother than a 10.3" out of a carbine gas system).
- I can adjust the gas for a suppressor. The KAC was overgassed with a can and undergassed without. This led to increased muzzle flip and an increase in the wear of parts with the can on.
- I can replace a bolt for about $60 from pretty much anywhere. If I can afford 15k rounds to blow, I can afford an extra $60 for a bolt and another $260 for a barrel.
- The Geissele trigger has a faster lock time and is faster than the KAC 2 stage. It is also much more durable. KAC triggers are made of a softer metal and are known for failing.
- The lower is in spec and will drop free M3 Pmags. My KAC did not.
- Have 0 POI shift with this gun with can/no can. My KAC had about a 2 MOA vertical shift.
- Factory warranty is a moot point because it isn't needed on an AR - unless yours takes proprietary parts that no one else carries. KAC CS isn't exactly the best.
- The charging handle and A2 grip they include are laughable.

I was a KAC fanboy until I ran mine.

What you do with your money is your business but I am sharing my personal experiences. While I was shooting my KACs, I was the laughing stock of my shooter friends. It was embarrassing to bring out a premium $2k rifle that didn't run when my friends had home builds or DD/BCM/etc that did.

Current Rifle sans suppressor and SD3G.

10 shots at 100 yards with a 4x scope.



Old rifles:



10 shots at 100 yards with a 15x scope. I stole the NF F1 off my LMT because I couldn't get the KACs to group well with 4x previously.

Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:41:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 1:52:31 PM EST by Blain]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Here's a rifle I built from "just parts" that served my needs better than the KAC rifles I had did.

- It will cycle steel cased .223 more reliably than my KACs did.
- It shoots more accurately than my KACs ever did - and with the "wrong trigger" and less magnification. Sub MOA 10-shot group vs 1.5-2 MOA 10-shot group.
- The barrel nut doesn't require a proprietary $100 tool to install/uninstall and is much stronger. There's much less flexing in this one.
- I can remove my rail and reinstall it and maintain BUIS/laser/optics zero.
- Increased dwell time from the midlength gas system so I don't have to have a wide gas port to maintain enough pressure to cycle the bolt. This leaves for a smoother shooting gun (Same reason a 11.5" shoots much smoother than a 10.3" out of a carbine gas system).
- I can adjust the gas for a suppressor. The KAC was overgassed with a can and undergassed without. This led to increased muzzle flip and an increase in the wear of parts with the can on.
- I can replace a bolt for about $60 from pretty much anywhere. If I can afford 15k rounds to blow, I can afford an extra $60 for a bolt and another $260 for a barrel.
- The Geissele trigger has a faster lock time and is faster than the KAC 2 stage. It is also much more durable. KAC triggers are made of a softer metal and are known for failing.
- The lower is in spec and will drop free M3 Pmags. My KAC did not.
- Have 0 POI shift with this gun with can/no can. My KAC had about a 2 MOA vertical shift.
- Factory warranty is a moot point because it isn't needed on an AR - unless yours takes proprietary parts that no one else carries. KAC CS isn't exactly the best.
- The charging handle and A2 grip they include are laughable.

I was a KAC fanboy until I ran mine.

What you do with your money is your business but I am sharing my personal experiences. While I was shooting my KACs, I was the laughing stock of my shooter friends. It was embarrassing to bring out a premium $2k rifle that didn't run when my friends had home builds or DD/BCM/etc that did.

Current Rifle sans suppressor and SD3G.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/e8cc97d3-38d8-4a16-b914-9e55180af81b.jpg
10 shots at 100 yards with a 4x scope.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/6130D927-A953-45F3-B614-4003FF40B05F-9832-00000DF0218196AE_zps3240f870.jpg


Old rifles:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/c132c26f-d951-4767-b421-019b7c7b4ef6.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/996f26c8-cb04-4bfe-99d1-c085160371a0.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/IMG_0738.jpg
10 shots at 100 yards with a 15x scope. I stole the NF F1 off my LMT because I couldn't get the KACs to group well with 4x previously.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/3565087A-F648-49AF-99B8-91FBEAA7FB31-8388-00000A6367F97F99_zps1a77bfd7.jpg?t=1386630910
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/485864d2-b7ed-44ca-b785-095b63150b48.jpg?t=1386631407
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Here's a rifle I built from "just parts" that served my needs better than the KAC rifles I had did.

- It will cycle steel cased .223 more reliably than my KACs did.
- It shoots more accurately than my KACs ever did - and with the "wrong trigger" and less magnification. Sub MOA 10-shot group vs 1.5-2 MOA 10-shot group.
- The barrel nut doesn't require a proprietary $100 tool to install/uninstall and is much stronger. There's much less flexing in this one.
- I can remove my rail and reinstall it and maintain BUIS/laser/optics zero.
- Increased dwell time from the midlength gas system so I don't have to have a wide gas port to maintain enough pressure to cycle the bolt. This leaves for a smoother shooting gun (Same reason a 11.5" shoots much smoother than a 10.3" out of a carbine gas system).
- I can adjust the gas for a suppressor. The KAC was overgassed with a can and undergassed without. This led to increased muzzle flip and an increase in the wear of parts with the can on.
- I can replace a bolt for about $60 from pretty much anywhere. If I can afford 15k rounds to blow, I can afford an extra $60 for a bolt and another $260 for a barrel.
- The Geissele trigger has a faster lock time and is faster than the KAC 2 stage. It is also much more durable. KAC triggers are made of a softer metal and are known for failing.
- The lower is in spec and will drop free M3 Pmags. My KAC did not.
- Have 0 POI shift with this gun with can/no can. My KAC had about a 2 MOA vertical shift.
- Factory warranty is a moot point because it isn't needed on an AR - unless yours takes proprietary parts that no one else carries. KAC CS isn't exactly the best.
- The charging handle and A2 grip they include are laughable.

I was a KAC fanboy until I ran mine.

What you do with your money is your business but I am sharing my personal experiences. While I was shooting my KACs, I was the laughing stock of my shooter friends. It was embarrassing to bring out a premium $2k rifle that didn't run when my friends had home builds or DD/BCM/etc that did.

Current Rifle sans suppressor and SD3G.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/e8cc97d3-38d8-4a16-b914-9e55180af81b.jpg
10 shots at 100 yards with a 4x scope.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/6130D927-A953-45F3-B614-4003FF40B05F-9832-00000DF0218196AE_zps3240f870.jpg


Old rifles:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/c132c26f-d951-4767-b421-019b7c7b4ef6.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/996f26c8-cb04-4bfe-99d1-c085160371a0.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/IMG_0738.jpg
10 shots at 100 yards with a 15x scope. I stole the NF F1 off my LMT because I couldn't get the KACs to group well with 4x previously.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/3565087A-F648-49AF-99B8-91FBEAA7FB31-8388-00000A6367F97F99_zps1a77bfd7.jpg?t=1386630910
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/XeComChayNhanh/485864d2-b7ed-44ca-b785-095b63150b48.jpg?t=1386631407


This.



Sums up everything I've been saying. Throw in an LMT enhanced bolt if it makes you happy, otherwise don't worry about it.



Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Blain, Im a reloader. Ive probably forgotten more about chamber pressure than you will ever know.

5.56x45 = ~55k psi
7.62x39= ~45k psi

7.62x39 is HARDLY a "high-pressure" round. My old Maadi RML had a lot more than 7k through it. Does that make it superior to the SR15? Nope. Same goes for M16 bolts going 40k. Read up on gas system lengths. Then read further on KAC intermediate length while youre at it. Youre just embarrassing yourself, son.

If you're such a seasoned reloader, then you should know that the 7.62x39 is a LOT harder on bolts in the AR system than 5.56 ammo is.

It is not just the pressure alone that is the cause of this, but because you have to cut away a lot of metal from the bolt face to get the cartridge in there, and because you also have high bolt thrust due to the pressure in the chamber acting against a larger surface.

Like the Soviet rounds tend to have, the taper of the 7.62x39 round changes the force vectors. Remember the bolt is locked so the pressure force is in all directions in the chamber, not just rearward. On a straight wall case, the same pressure forces vector right into the chamber side wall, with taper some of that force is instead vectored rearward. Its probably like on the sides of the chamber, the vectors are something 80% at 90 degree to the side wall sidewall and 20% rear to the bolt face, but the taper does add to the force on the bolt face.

Taper is good for feeding and extraction, which is why you see so much on the Soviet rounds. Not so great for chamber forces.

That being said, 7.62x39 is a LOT harder on AR15 bolts than 5.56, and break with a much higher frequency at much lower round counts.

Additionally, I am well aware of the differences between gas systems, which is why I brought that up. Most AR15 bolts break prematurely under carbine gas systems, where the stresses are much greater. The same bolts last magnitudes longer when operated in rifles, or mid lengths. The E3 bolt is only experiencing the pressures of a specially tuned intermediate style gas system, designed to put it under much less stress. 40k through such a gas system isn't nearly as impressive in retrospect because of the lesser forces being applied to it. Much like how you were unduly impressed with the high round counts with normal AR15 bolts under lesser pressure gas systems.

The point I was making is that you have to compare apples to apples. Would that same bolt have lasted 80k rounds if under the firing pressures of a carbine gas system, nevermind 7.62x39?? Not saying the bolt isn't good, but you also have to view it in context.


Seriously? This thread isnt about you. It isnt about LMT vs KAC. Its about the OPs question. Unless you want to go down in internet history as the epitome as why arfcom is laughed at in the firearms community just stop. If you have something worthwhile to add to the OPs question do so. If not start your own thread about how intellectually superior you are to all us dumbass SR15 owners.

Then stop dumping on me for expressing my opinion, ala the OP's wishes, and read the above quoted post as to why the rifle is over rated. Happy now?

Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:48:43 PM EST
well if the kac has everything you want on a rifle and its going to be plug and play then go for it . if you buy colt , dd, or any other brand and start swapping and changing stuff out its not going to be long before you have as much invested as what you could of had to start with . alot of people tell me Im retarded for buying a 6940 but it had everything I wanted right out of the box . I put some magpul rail covers onit slapped an acog on top and called it good . Im as happy as a tornado in a trailler park . get what tugs at you the most and you will be happy.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:51:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 2:00:34 PM EST by Spent_Casing]
Thanks AZNoob for posting your honest results. Sorry your KAC didnt work out for you. Here is my experience though...


100yds Eotech XPS No magnification. 55gr Hornady FMJ 27.5gr CFE 223 COL 2.225 CCI400 LC12 brass


Im happy with the results for a CL CHF combat bbl, and a bulk plinking bullet. That quarter will cover 95% of that 10 shot group. It gets much better with the heavier stuff but a magnified optic is on my wishlist as Im still saving up to test the true accy. I understand I hit the "lottery" with a CL bbl to shoot this good but Im only relaying my personal experience.

ETA: Also no lead sled, no bags, just my rifle rested on a bench laying on an ammo can on its side and my rifle bag on that. I shoot VERY practically. As in real world. That group is the first 10 shots out of my SR15 upper ever. That load was honestly "tuned" for my 16" FN (PSA) CHF middy. Just so happened to shoot better out of my SR15 upper. And better still than my FNMI A2 upper which shoots better than the PSA.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 2:16:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Here's a rifle I built from "just parts" that served my needs better than the KAC rifles I had did.

- It will cycle steel cased .223 more reliably than my KACs did.
- It shoots more accurately than my KACs ever did - and with the "wrong trigger" and less magnification. Sub MOA 10-shot group vs 1.5-2 MOA 10-shot group.
- The barrel nut doesn't require a proprietary $100 tool to install/uninstall and is much stronger. There's much less flexing in this one.
- I can remove my rail and reinstall it and maintain BUIS/laser/optics zero.
- Increased dwell time from the midlength gas system so I don't have to have a wide gas port to maintain enough pressure to cycle the bolt. This leaves for a smoother shooting gun (Same reason a 11.5" shoots much smoother than a 10.3" out of a carbine gas system).
- I can adjust the gas for a suppressor. The KAC was overgassed with a can and undergassed without. This led to increased muzzle flip and an increase in the wear of parts with the can on.
- I can replace a bolt for about $60 from pretty much anywhere. If I can afford 15k rounds to blow, I can afford an extra $60 for a bolt and another $260 for a barrel.
- The Geissele trigger has a faster lock time and is faster than the KAC 2 stage. It is also much more durable. KAC triggers are made of a softer metal and are known for failing.
- The lower is in spec and will drop free M3 Pmags. My KAC did not.
- Have 0 POI shift with this gun with can/no can. My KAC had about a 2 MOA vertical shift.
- Factory warranty is a moot point because it isn't needed on an AR - unless yours takes proprietary parts that no one else carries. KAC CS isn't exactly the best.
- The charging handle and A2 grip they include are laughable.

I was a KAC fanboy until I ran mine.

What you do with your money is your business but I am sharing my personal experiences. While I was shooting my KACs, I was the laughing stock of my shooter friends. It was embarrassing to bring out a premium $2k rifle that didn't run when my friends had home builds or DD/BCM/etc that did.
View Quote

I think you're comparing a heavier profile barrel to a Mod 1. Even the playing field a bit and compare your build to a LPR.

The Geissele rails are nice. I prefer the URX 3/3.1, but it's user preference. The URX 3.1 is lighter I believe too. The URX 3.1 also uses a 2 piece design.

As for the lower and trigger I never had a problem with them. I don't use either like you though. I like Geissele triggers so I use one over the KAC. It seems like you wanted a more accurate long range build. I think you would had been better off with a LPR over the Mod 1. Maybe you just wanted your own build. Either way your current rifle seems like a good replacement to the sr15 for you. The OP will have to decide if a Mod 1 is really what he's looking for or if something else would fit the role better.

To Blain
If he threw an Enhanced bolt in it would cost well above what a sr15 costs.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 2:29:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 4:37:53 PM EST by Brutus2]
I always wanted a "top-tier" AR but i could never get myself to spring for one. I always got good reliable shooters by building them, I would rarely spend more than 1k doing so. So about August of this year I finally broke down and ordered up a K.A.C SR15 IWS MOD1. It was a great looking and light gun, well balanced and had a good trigger. Only factory rifle I would ever consider ready-to-go right out of the box. My S.R15 E3 IWS Mod1 did not group under 5 MOA with mil-spec ammo or under 3 MOA with match ammo. Granted that most reports from KAC owners claim right around MOA or better, it was not the case with mine. I wanted to check the rifle for assembly and the like but this was the first rifle I could not do that with because I needed an expensive and special tool to do so. So after dumping over $200 of ammo trying to figure out what this weapon liked, I decided to cut my losses and return it for a full refund which to the credit of KAC was done without complaint.

What i learned from the whole ordeal? Build your own. No matter how "top tier" a factory rifle is, an individual that knows the AR platform can build a better suited rifle that is just as smooth shooting as the SR-15. The SR15 will still have a better bolt.. but hey.. nothing is perfect.

I built a rifle to MY specs that is just as smooth a shooter ( SLR D7 with the VLTOR A-5 system runs smooth as butter).. all quality parts.. better trigger (IMO).. and is more accurate than your average SR15 and I did for substantially less money. With a quality optic included in the price.. still less than MSRP on an SR 15





If a factory build is what your after, the KAC SR 15 is a great rifle.. It is very likely the best rifle any organization could buy that will serve the purposes of any individual. It is very likely the best factory equipped rifle an individual can buy dollar for dollar. IMO an individual can do better for less money.

Disclaimer: I still want an SR-15....
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 3:17:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 3:21:58 PM EST by Marksman14]
I've previously either built rifles using DD, BCM and Noveske parts, or bought factory rifles/uppers from those brands.

All of those served me VERY well, and I have zero complaints about them. I bought one SR15 Mod-1, then an LPR, then another Mod-1, then a Mod-1 upper that I had modified, then an ECR.

I have found all of mine to be very accurate, smoother shooting than the others with the same ammunition, and 100% reliable. I had some DD barrels that shot as well as my KAC's do, and an old BCM non CHF that shot very well. Obviously the Noveske stainless barrels were monsters, about even with my LPR.

Some MOD-1's don't shoot MOA groups. Some are 2-3 MOA guns, but remember, they're Colt Canada hammer forged LIGHTWEIGHT barrels. They are not made to be sub MOA rifles, but as it happens, quality barrels are being made nowadays from all companies, and every now and then we get some hammer forged accurate goodness. Sometimes we don't though, and all brands will see this, including KAC.

I DO have to run a standard carbine buffer in my MOD-1's to reliably feed shitty steel case ammo, but the result is that will full power loads, they recoil like my old rifles did with underpowered .223.

Very fine rifles, now all I own. And I certainly didn't transition from sub-part rifles or setups.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 3:26:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 3:27:56 PM EST by AzNooB]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Edward_Tz:

I think you're comparing a heavier profile barrel to a Mod 1. Even the playing field a bit and compare your build to a LPR.

The Geissele rails are nice. I prefer the URX 3/3.1, but it's user preference. The URX 3.1 is lighter I believe too. The URX 3.1 also uses a 2 piece design.

As for the lower and trigger I never had a problem with them. I don't use either like you though. I like Geissele triggers so I use one over the KAC. It seems like you wanted a more accurate long range build. I think you would had been better off with a LPR over the Mod 1. Maybe you just wanted your own build. Either way your current rifle seems like a good replacement to the sr15 for you. The OP will have to decide if a Mod 1 is really what he's looking for or if something else would fit the role better.

To Blain
If he threw an Enhanced bolt in it would cost well above what a sr15 costs.
View Quote


The LPR is a more expensive rifle. It also has an 18" barrel, which is not what I wanted. However, the 18" barrel probably addresses the gas issue using a common gas system/barrel length combo.

I wanted my rifle to be built around a 3-gun or Recce rifle. I can blast with it quickly up close and can also make fairly accurate shots at distance. I never intended my rifle to be a long range precision rifle. I have other calibers for that.

I could switch to a chrome lined pencil barrel and suffer from POI shift and slightly less accuracy and would still be happy. My biggest beef with the SR15 is the gas system. If mine wasn't 100% in hot TX weather, I wonder how it would have done in extreme cold temperatures or extremely fouled.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 3:37:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 3:39:41 PM EST by Marksman14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AzNooB:


The LPR is a more expensive rifle. It also has an 18" barrel, which is not what I wanted. However, the 18" barrel probably addresses the gas issue using a common gas system/barrel length combo.

I wanted my rifle to be built around a 3-gun or Recce rifle. I can blast with it quickly up close and can also make fairly accurate shots at distance. I never intended my rifle to be a long range precision rifle. I have other calibers for that.

I could switch to a chrome lined pencil barrel and suffer from POI shift and slightly less accuracy and would still be happy. My biggest beef with the SR15 is the gas system. If mine wasn't 100% in hot TX weather, I wonder how it would have done in extreme cold temperatures or extremely fouled.
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Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Originally Posted By Edward_Tz:

I think you're comparing a heavier profile barrel to a Mod 1. Even the playing field a bit and compare your build to a LPR.

The Geissele rails are nice. I prefer the URX 3/3.1, but it's user preference. The URX 3.1 is lighter I believe too. The URX 3.1 also uses a 2 piece design.

As for the lower and trigger I never had a problem with them. I don't use either like you though. I like Geissele triggers so I use one over the KAC. It seems like you wanted a more accurate long range build. I think you would had been better off with a LPR over the Mod 1. Maybe you just wanted your own build. Either way your current rifle seems like a good replacement to the sr15 for you. The OP will have to decide if a Mod 1 is really what he's looking for or if something else would fit the role better.

To Blain
If he threw an Enhanced bolt in it would cost well above what a sr15 costs.


The LPR is a more expensive rifle. It also has an 18" barrel, which is not what I wanted. However, the 18" barrel probably addresses the gas issue using a common gas system/barrel length combo.

I wanted my rifle to be built around a 3-gun or Recce rifle. I can blast with it quickly up close and can also make fairly accurate shots at distance. I never intended my rifle to be a long range precision rifle. I have other calibers for that.

I could switch to a chrome lined pencil barrel and suffer from POI shift and slightly less accuracy and would still be happy. My biggest beef with the SR15 is the gas system. If mine wasn't 100% in hot TX weather, I wonder how it would have done in extreme cold temperatures or extremely fouled.


Mine work very well in colder weather, but I have only tested them with .mil spec ammo, and it does get really nasty cold here in my area. I use light viscosity motor oil in the cold, or regular EWL. I have not yet tried wolf+carbine buffer+SR15 below 50ish or so. I think you got one with an undersized port, only explanation for the issues you saw. These things happen, even with KAC. Shame it didn't work as well for you as it has with me, but atleast your experience is an anomaly and not the trend.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 3:54:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Marksman14:


Mine work very well in colder weather, but I have only tested them with .mil spec ammo, and it does get really nasty cold here in my area. I use light viscosity motor oil in the cold, or regular EWL. I have not yet tried wolf+carbine buffer+SR15 below 50ish or so. I think you got one with an undersized port, only explanation for the issues you saw. These things happen, even with KAC. Shame it didn't work as well for you as it has with me, but atleast your experience is an anomaly and not the trend.
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Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Originally Posted By Edward_Tz:

I think you're comparing a heavier profile barrel to a Mod 1. Even the playing field a bit and compare your build to a LPR.

The Geissele rails are nice. I prefer the URX 3/3.1, but it's user preference. The URX 3.1 is lighter I believe too. The URX 3.1 also uses a 2 piece design.

As for the lower and trigger I never had a problem with them. I don't use either like you though. I like Geissele triggers so I use one over the KAC. It seems like you wanted a more accurate long range build. I think you would had been better off with a LPR over the Mod 1. Maybe you just wanted your own build. Either way your current rifle seems like a good replacement to the sr15 for you. The OP will have to decide if a Mod 1 is really what he's looking for or if something else would fit the role better.

To Blain
If he threw an Enhanced bolt in it would cost well above what a sr15 costs.


The LPR is a more expensive rifle. It also has an 18" barrel, which is not what I wanted. However, the 18" barrel probably addresses the gas issue using a common gas system/barrel length combo.

I wanted my rifle to be built around a 3-gun or Recce rifle. I can blast with it quickly up close and can also make fairly accurate shots at distance. I never intended my rifle to be a long range precision rifle. I have other calibers for that.

I could switch to a chrome lined pencil barrel and suffer from POI shift and slightly less accuracy and would still be happy. My biggest beef with the SR15 is the gas system. If mine wasn't 100% in hot TX weather, I wonder how it would have done in extreme cold temperatures or extremely fouled.


Mine work very well in colder weather, but I have only tested them with .mil spec ammo, and it does get really nasty cold here in my area. I use light viscosity motor oil in the cold, or regular EWL. I have not yet tried wolf+carbine buffer+SR15 below 50ish or so. I think you got one with an undersized port, only explanation for the issues you saw. These things happen, even with KAC. Shame it didn't work as well for you as it has with me, but atleast your experience is an anomaly and not the trend.

Same here. SR15 upper has ran with no issues in NE OH winter weather (ie: super cold) on a carbine lower (ST-T2 buffer) to an A2 lower. Although Ive never ran Wolf steel case, ammo has always been XM193/855,majority has been with my reloads stated above. Sr15 has exceeded expectations in all "columns".
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:01:09 PM EST
Is weather something that should be considered with the SR-15?

I live in a area that gets over 100 degress in the summer and in the single digits in the winter. Again, my main concern is reliability and ruggedness, MOA isnt that high on my list. Although this will be my regular shooting gun as well so I would like it accurate. But so far I am a 2-3 MOA shooter anyways (need some more practice)

How is the SR-15 with ammo quality? I want a rifle that I can feed pretty much anything with at least decent results. I am glad that the KAC bolt is known to be one of the best. I will be keeping a extra bolt with me at all times just in case but I am sure that will help with the different types of ammo.

Also, are their any known torture tests with the SR-15 that I can read up on?
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:05:09 PM EST
Take a Toyota and "trick it out" and you won't have a Ferrari (pretend both are equally reliable and you get the point)

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blain:



Maybe I'm missing it. But aside from a proprietary enhanced bolt, what exactly makes this rifle that much better than any other AR with a CHF barrel? I can understand some added features to accommodate certain user preferences and taste, but it doesn't seem all that revolutionary to me. the rail is nice, but I'd prefer a standard handguard, or a troy viking tactics alpha rail.

Incorporating an LMT enhanced bolt into your gun, would pretty much give you the same thing at a fraction of the cost.
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Originally Posted By Blain:
Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Thanks, I have been looking through some of the older post there. But I saw some post talk about the "new production" ones having some different features like auto BCG, and something with the trigger I think.

So I wasnt sure if there was a difference between the ones now and the older ones in these other threads.

Why are the SR-15s so much better? They are DI guns right?


KAC makes a very good rifle but being "so much better", maybe not. I still think you can build a better rifle on your own. Their new keymod rail is very nice, FWIW. The E3 bolt might be the new part, IDK. They are DI guns.



Maybe I'm missing it. But aside from a proprietary enhanced bolt, what exactly makes this rifle that much better than any other AR with a CHF barrel? I can understand some added features to accommodate certain user preferences and taste, but it doesn't seem all that revolutionary to me. the rail is nice, but I'd prefer a standard handguard, or a troy viking tactics alpha rail.

Incorporating an LMT enhanced bolt into your gun, would pretty much give you the same thing at a fraction of the cost.


Incorporating an enhanced bolt into your gun does not give you "pretty much the same thing at a fraction of the cost"

$2000 is the average cost of an SR-15. Those LMT defenders go for $1600-1700, DDM4s go from $1300-$1500 - all talking about average pricing. To me, if I'm going to have a folding sight, it's going to be KAC. They are simpler and more compact than any sight on the market. In addition to the sights, you get my favorite stock (which you can sell to buy pretty much any stock on the market and still have money left), a really nice trigger, ambi controls, and QD mounts everywhere you could possible need for a sling attachment. That is if you assume the bolt and gas system are the same - they are not. As someone said in this thread, round designs win in nature. They are stronger than lines/corners.

Most of us are not fanboys. Many companies make great guns. It's just you get more with SR-15s for less. Look at the Colt SOCOM. They sell that gun for $1500! Nice gun, but with an SR-15, you get a much longer rail system that is lighter ($200), a better stock ($150), extended trigger guard ($20), QD rear mount ($30), great trigger ($200), my favorite sights ($200) - not to mention the ambi controls, bolt, and gas system. It's a better gun at a better value. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. That's just the facts.

If that stuff doesn't to you, good for you, you're better off with something else. You may be better off with a Colt SOCOM cause that is exactly what you want. That's great. Great gun. Doesn't change the fact that the KAC is still a better value though. Now like I said, if that value is irrelevant to you, it's irrelevant. 500 bucks is 500 bucks. 3 candy bars at $2 may be a better value than 1 candy bar at $1, but if I only want one, I only want one.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:10:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 4:12:57 PM EST by CaribouLou45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Is weather something that should be considered with the SR-15?

I live in a area that gets over 100 degress in the summer and in the single digits in the winter. Again, my main concern is reliability and ruggedness, MOA isnt that high on my list. Although this will be my regular shooting gun as well so I would like it accurate. But so far I am a 2-3 MOA shooter anyways (need some more practice)

How is the SR-15 with ammo quality? I want a rifle that I can feed pretty much anything with at least decent results. I am glad that the KAC bolt is known to be one of the best. I will be keeping a extra bolt with me at all times just in case but I am sure that will help with the different types of ammo.

Also, are their any known torture tests with the SR-15 that I can read up on?
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Given that they are made in Florida, I don't think heat will be a problem. I've never had a single malfunction with mine with any ammo. Only have 2K through it though thanks to Obama's activity last year.

Travis Haley and some others had SR-15s with upwards of 80,000-100,000 rounds through an individual one a year or two ago. They claim the one with 80,000 was still stock everything, including barrel. If that is true, I think you'll be alright for life unless you have some serious pockets for ammo like that


From KevinB 2009:
"For open sources SR15 users;
Jerry Barnhart is on his third barrel (he's got about 100,000 k thru the gun)

Chris Costa is on his second barrel. Travis Haley has aprox 80k thru ONE rifle that has the same barrel and bolt in it as the day it left the factory - it shoots around 2.5 MOA now

The barrel and bolt will last in excess of 20k -- which is not something anyone elses barrel and bolt will do, piston or DI.

The Ambo features where part of the US Army M110 SASS ECP's (Engineering Chnage Proposals) and they have been running fine in tortourous environments.

During a Larry Vickers 3 Day class I brought out several guns, and one former Marine is shooting the SR15E3
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/_32Y9015.jpg

It is about the softest shooting carbine out there."

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-480188.html
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:12:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Is weather something that should be considered with the SR-15?

I live in a area that gets over 100 degress in the summer and in the single digits in the winter. Again, my main concern is reliability and ruggedness, MOA isnt that high on my list. Although this will be my regular shooting gun as well so I would like it accurate. But so far I am a 2-3 MOA shooter anyways (need some more practice)

How is the SR-15 with ammo quality? I want a rifle that I can feed pretty much anything with at least decent results. I am glad that the KAC bolt is known to be one of the best. I will be keeping a extra bolt with me at all times just in case but I am sure that will help with the different types of ammo.

Also, are their any known torture tests with the SR-15 that I can read up on?
View Quote

I don't recommend steel case stuff like Wolf. If you want to run crap like that you can't use a H or H2 buffer. Cheapo stuff like PMC runs well.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:19:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Marksman14:

I think you got one with an undersized port, only explanation for the issues you saw. These things happen, even with KAC. Shame it didn't work as well for you as it has with me, but atleast your experience is an anomaly and not the trend.
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This is the way I see it.

I have five factory KAC rifles - a Mod 1, two Carbines, an LPR and a CQB. My best buddy has a Mod 1 and a CQB as well. While neither of us have had a chance to use our CQBs yet (waiting on our stamps), we've shot the shit out of our Mod 1s and Carbines in particular. And mind you, we hit the range pretty much weekly, and put a ton of rounds down range - we don't own safe queens.

With that said, in our current test group of 5 factory KAC rifles, the results have been nothing less than stellar. My Carbines are 1 MOA tack drivers of battle rifles, my LPR is a sub MOA tack driver, and our Mod 1s are 1.5-2 MOA shooters. And with the exception of my LPR, we aren't running match grade stuff thru our KACs by any means.

Both of our Mod 1s in particular get fed a straight diet of 55 grain PMC Bronze 223 (which is widely considered very underpowered). 100 percent reliability, and we don't even have to try hard to group below 2 MOA at 100 yards with it.

Both of my Carbines are incredibly accurate with 62 grain PMC X-Tac 556 M855. The one I have sporting a Viper PST 1-4x shoots quarter sized groups at 100 yards all day with it...even tighter at times.

The way I see it is that these threads pop up from time to time. Essentially anyone who owns or has ever owned a factory KAC rifle that chimes in speaks of great experiences, and couldn't recommend a KAC more. As with any rifle company, we also hear of the few bad experiences as well...in most cases lately, it's pretty much solely been AzNooB and Brutus chiming in with their unfortunate results.

Not taking anything away from their experiences, but they are clearly very far and from the norm of what KAC is putting out.

I respect Brutus' stance in particular because he on several occasions has mentioned that he believes he did just happen to receive a lemon of a barrel, it happens and is what it is, and due to the overall feedback he's heard about KAC over time, he is sure that if he were to get another KAC rifle, he'd likely have nothing but great experiences with that one.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:39:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CaribouLou45:
Take a Toyota and "trick it out" and you won't have a Ferrari (pretend both are equally reliable and you get the point)



Incorporating an enhanced bolt into your gun does not give you "pretty much the same thing at a fraction of the cost"

$2000 is the average cost of an SR-15. Those LMT defenders go for $1600-1700, DDM4s go from $1300-$1500 - all talking about average pricing. To me, if I'm going to have a folding sight, it's going to be KAC. They are simpler and more compact than any sight on the market. In addition to the sights, you get my favorite stock (which you can sell to buy pretty much any stock on the market and still have money left), a really nice trigger, ambi controls, and QD mounts everywhere you could possible need for a sling attachment. That is if you assume the bolt and gas system are the same - they are not. As someone said in this thread, round designs win in nature. They are stronger than lines/corners.

Most of us are not fanboys. Many companies make great guns. It's just you get more with SR-15s for less. Look at the Colt SOCOM. They sell that gun for $1500! Nice gun, but with an SR-15, you get a much longer rail system that is lighter ($200), a better stock ($150), extended trigger guard ($20), QD rear mount ($30), great trigger ($200), my favorite sights ($200) - not to mention the ambi controls, bolt, and gas system. It's a better gun at a better value. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. That's just the facts.

If that stuff doesn't to you, good for you, you're better off with something else. You may be better off with a Colt SOCOM cause that is exactly what you want. That's great. Great gun. Doesn't change the fact that the KAC is still a better value though. Now like I said, if that value is irrelevant to you, it's irrelevant. 500 bucks is 500 bucks. 3 candy bars at $2 may be a better value than 1 candy bar at $1, but if I only want one, I only want one.
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Originally Posted By CaribouLou45:
Take a Toyota and "trick it out" and you won't have a Ferrari (pretend both are equally reliable and you get the point)

Originally Posted By Blain:
Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Thanks, I have been looking through some of the older post there. But I saw some post talk about the "new production" ones having some different features like auto BCG, and something with the trigger I think.

So I wasnt sure if there was a difference between the ones now and the older ones in these other threads.

Why are the SR-15s so much better? They are DI guns right?


KAC makes a very good rifle but being "so much better", maybe not. I still think you can build a better rifle on your own. Their new keymod rail is very nice, FWIW. The E3 bolt might be the new part, IDK. They are DI guns.



Maybe I'm missing it. But aside from a proprietary enhanced bolt, what exactly makes this rifle that much better than any other AR with a CHF barrel? I can understand some added features to accommodate certain user preferences and taste, but it doesn't seem all that revolutionary to me. the rail is nice, but I'd prefer a standard handguard, or a troy viking tactics alpha rail.

Incorporating an LMT enhanced bolt into your gun, would pretty much give you the same thing at a fraction of the cost.


Incorporating an enhanced bolt into your gun does not give you "pretty much the same thing at a fraction of the cost"

$2000 is the average cost of an SR-15. Those LMT defenders go for $1600-1700, DDM4s go from $1300-$1500 - all talking about average pricing. To me, if I'm going to have a folding sight, it's going to be KAC. They are simpler and more compact than any sight on the market. In addition to the sights, you get my favorite stock (which you can sell to buy pretty much any stock on the market and still have money left), a really nice trigger, ambi controls, and QD mounts everywhere you could possible need for a sling attachment. That is if you assume the bolt and gas system are the same - they are not. As someone said in this thread, round designs win in nature. They are stronger than lines/corners.

Most of us are not fanboys. Many companies make great guns. It's just you get more with SR-15s for less. Look at the Colt SOCOM. They sell that gun for $1500! Nice gun, but with an SR-15, you get a much longer rail system that is lighter ($200), a better stock ($150), extended trigger guard ($20), QD rear mount ($30), great trigger ($200), my favorite sights ($200) - not to mention the ambi controls, bolt, and gas system. It's a better gun at a better value. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. That's just the facts.

If that stuff doesn't to you, good for you, you're better off with something else. You may be better off with a Colt SOCOM cause that is exactly what you want. That's great. Great gun. Doesn't change the fact that the KAC is still a better value though. Now like I said, if that value is irrelevant to you, it's irrelevant. 500 bucks is 500 bucks. 3 candy bars at $2 may be a better value than 1 candy bar at $1, but if I only want one, I only want one.
well said. KAC gives you everything you need, down to the QD sling swivels and a decent hard case. If you dont need/value the package deal, you may be better off with a different gun.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 5:56:14 PM EST
Agreed. If my KACs worked, I would have kept them as the features made them a good value for a fighting rifle.

However, 3 strikes was more than enough for me.

In a perfect world, I'd use an E3 bolt on a 16" middie gas system.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 5:59:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Agreed. If my KACs worked, I would have kept them as the features made them a good value for a fighting rifle.

However, 3 strikes was more than enough for me.

In a perfect world, I'd use an E3 bolt on a 16" middie gas system.
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they could make a ton of money by releasing it and their barrel extensions onto the market.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 7:15:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 7:16:00 PM EST by AR-Ryan21]
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Originally Posted By DonKey153:



they could make a ton of money by releasing it and their barrel extensions onto the market.
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Originally Posted By DonKey153:
Originally Posted By AzNooB:

In a perfect world, I'd use an E3 bolt on a 16" middie gas system.



they could make a ton of money by releasing it and their barrel extensions onto the market.


Something tells me KAC is already doing just fine financially.

Though I do agree.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 12:14:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:


Something tells me KAC is already doing just fine financially.

Though I do agree.
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Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By DonKey153:
Originally Posted By AzNooB:

In a perfect world, I'd use an E3 bolt on a 16" middie gas system.



they could make a ton of money by releasing it and their barrel extensions onto the market.


Something tells me KAC is already doing just fine financially.

Though I do agree.



If they don't, someone else will. It just has to be different enough not to get sued. They've addressed the weakest point in the AR platform, and someone is going to have a lightbulb moment sooner or later.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 12:24:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DonKey153:



If they don't, someone else will. It just has to be different enough not to get sued. They've addressed the weakest point in the AR platform, and someone is going to have a lightbulb moment sooner or later.
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Originally Posted By DonKey153:
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By DonKey153:
Originally Posted By AzNooB:

In a perfect world, I'd use an E3 bolt on a 16" middie gas system.



they could make a ton of money by releasing it and their barrel extensions onto the market.


Something tells me KAC is already doing just fine financially.

Though I do agree.



If they don't, someone else will. It just has to be different enough not to get sued. They've addressed the weakest point in the AR platform, and someone is going to have a lightbulb moment sooner or later.

LMT already did. The lengthened gas tube on the sr15 isn't just for less recoil. It's also for less stress on parts.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 12:54:41 PM EST
Well after this thread and reading through the others I have decided that my next rifle will be a SR-15 Mod 1.

Now I just need to find a place around Vegas that sells them!
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:03:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Well after this thread and reading through the others I have decided that my next rifle will be a SR-15 Mod 1.

Now I just need to find a place around Vegas that sells them!
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Or you can get in contact with Ayan from BoltCarrier.com and have one shipped to you..Congrats on the choice, I like the majority, have had nothing but great experiences with all my SR15's. I acutally bought one of the very first batches released in late 2007/2008. the one I shoot the most has just over 16k through it and to date, I have one malfunction and that can be traced to a worn USGI mag.

Only ammo it has ever seen has been PMC Bronze, AE .223, and Federal XM193..
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:51:01 AM EST
I bought an LPR and my next rifle is going to be an SR-15 14.5" either full rifle or upper as soon as I can scrape the funds. The things just ooze quality.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 10:06:01 AM EST
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Originally Posted By helix139:
I bought an LPR and my next rifle is going to be an SR-15 14.5" either full rifle or upper as soon as I can scrape the funds. The things just ooze quality.
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You're much more likely to run into the upper, and it's easier to go that route as well.

The complete factory 14.5" SR-15 is an SBR.

I own two, and picked up the uppers separately, and had muzzle devices pinned. I then found some dealers who were willing to split up complete factory SR-15 Mod 1 rifles, and just sell me the lowers.

And then bam, two complete KAC 14.5" dimpled SR-15s. And IMHO, the factory dimpled KAC 14.5" SR-15s are the best it gets for an all-around package in the AR-15 platform. If I could just have one rifle, that'd be it.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 10:28:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:


You're much more likely to run into the upper, and it's easier to go that route as well.

The complete factory 14.5" SR-15 is an SBR.

I own two, and picked up the uppers separately, and had muzzle devices pinned. I then found some dealers who were willing to split up complete factory SR-15 Mod 1 rifles, and just sell me the lowers.

And then bam, two complete KAC 14.5" dimpled SR-15s. And IMHO, the factory dimpled KAC 14.5" SR-15s are the best it gets for an all-around package in the AR-15 platform. If I could just have one rifle, that'd be it.
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Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By helix139:
I bought an LPR and my next rifle is going to be an SR-15 14.5" either full rifle or upper as soon as I can scrape the funds. The things just ooze quality.


You're much more likely to run into the upper, and it's easier to go that route as well.

The complete factory 14.5" SR-15 is an SBR.

I own two, and picked up the uppers separately, and had muzzle devices pinned. I then found some dealers who were willing to split up complete factory SR-15 Mod 1 rifles, and just sell me the lowers.

And then bam, two complete KAC 14.5" dimpled SR-15s. And IMHO, the factory dimpled KAC 14.5" SR-15s are the best it gets for an all-around package in the AR-15 platform. If I could just have one rifle, that'd be it.


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'll buy the upper then get it pinned with a MAMS or Surefire brake and use it with the LPR lower (since I can really only shoot one at a time) and not have to deal with any NFA paperwork or pinned muzzle devices that I don't really want.

That said, it won't be happening anytime soon. My credit card is still hurting from that LPR purchase, and I want to get a Bushnell HDMR H59 for it and that will probably come first. I agree, though, those factory dimpled 14.5" SR-15's are about the finest package you can get from the factory.
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