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School me on metal mags (Page 1 of 2)
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Posted: 11/19/2020 9:19:34 AM EDT
I switched to PMAGS many years ago.  We were issued the metals, then the PMAGS.

I still see a lot of sales for the metals and people seem to be still drawn to them.

What makes the metals still so attractive?  Are there guns I don't know about that have PMAG issues?  Is it because they are lower in price?  ______?
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 9:34:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2020 9:35:19 AM EDT by samuse]
They work.  

Aside from a few damaged mags, I’ve never had any problems with GI mags.  Legit GI mags, I don’t mess with  just any metal mag.

I’ve used Pmags quite a bit. They work too.  

I’ve had problems with Pmags. Magpul has addressed the issues I had problems with and made revisions.  

I’m still using GI mags that are date stamped around the time the very first Pmag was made. Still just fine.
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 9:43:12 AM EDT
I can not skewl you.

Skewl is out.

Only plastic mags i use are made for the gun by the factory.

IE: AUG, glock, and such.

Same here i have pre 94 mags that still run great.

After seeing some plastic aftermarket mag fail pix on the net there is no way I'd waste my time or money on them.

This includes the holier then thou pmag
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 9:55:42 AM EDT
They fit in issued molle gear, and just plain work I used OKAYS during my deployments, and continue to do so as a civilian.
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 10:26:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2020 10:36:10 AM EDT by SoftwareJanitor]
I've got a bunch of Adventure Line, Parsons, Center Industries and other very old metal mags that still run fine, even with the original aluminum or black followers.

Most of these mags I've had for 25-30 years.  They were used when I got them, some may be 40+ years old.  I've run hundreds if not thousands of rounds through them.

Good aluminum mags will last a long time if treated reasonably.

Link Posted: 11/19/2020 10:37:56 AM EDT
Plastic creeps over time.  It's also less tolerant of environmental conditions, specifically UV exposure.  It also doesn't take much Googling to find pictures of split Pmags and fatigued feed lips. If you're gonna store Pmags charged, best to have the caps on them.

Over a lifespan of hard use...
Pmags would need to be replaced because of creep/cracking/splitting
Metal mags would need to be replaced most likely because of dents causing the follower to not move smoothly.

In my mind, it's kind of like the choice between an F150 or a Silverado.  They're both good choices, have their individual quirks/foibles, but both will provide solid service.

Link Posted: 11/19/2020 10:38:19 AM EDT
Aluminum mags have a history of working well for decades. I expect polymer will do okay over the next 10 to 20 years, but sometimes it's reassuring knowing you have some mags that will last 50+ years.

I like D&H, Okay and Gen 3 Pmags.
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 10:39:47 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By intheburbs:
Plastic creeps over time.  It's also less tolerant of environmental conditions, specifically UV exposure.  It also doesn't take much Googling to find pictures of split Pmags and fatigued feed lips. If you're gonna store Pmags charged, best to have the caps on them.

Over a lifespan of hard use...
Pmags would need to be replaced because of creep/cracking/splitting
Metal mags would need to be replaced most likely because of dents causing the follower to not move smoothly.

In my mind, it's kind of like the choice between an F150 or a Silverado.  They're both good choices, have their individual quirks/foibles, but both will provide solid service.

View Quote
Yep. Bent feed lips and dented or crushed sides are a metal mag issue. I've seen both. Toss them and move on.
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 11:01:28 AM EDT
Personal preference.  Buy quality/vetted mags and sling lead.
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 11:02:44 AM EDT
I have both. Good aluminum mags (Okay) are outstanding.

Gen 3 PMAGs are stronger than previous generations- none of mine have shown any creep with consistent use.
Lancers solve the issue with metal feed lips.
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 12:27:28 PM EDT
Metal mag fans like them because they’ve been working for decades, and they question how many years plastic mags will remain physically stable. Some metal mag fans feel plastic mags are too easily cracked or broken, or can’t be stored loaded. Metal mags are also usually slightly cheaper.

Without getting into a debate, I’ll just say that some of these arguments are unfounded while some are legitimate concerns, such as the unknown of how pmags will age 30+ years from now.

The best solution is to have a mix of mags in case an unforeseen issue comes up with a certain mag brand or two.
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 4:13:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2020 6:09:36 PM EDT by REGULARGUY556]
Originally Posted By MHeemeyer:
I switched to PMAGS many years ago.  We were issued the metals, then the PMAGS.

I still see a lot of sales for the metals and people seem to be still drawn to them.

What makes the metals still so attractive?  Are there guns I don't know about that have PMAG issues?  Is it because they are lower in price?  ______?
View Quote


All lowers aren't created equal OP so Pmags will NOT eject/fall freely from all lowers as what used to be USGI magazines made to spec WILL.  I cut my teeth on USGI Okay magazines with a dry film lube and yes even the black magazine follower in the Marine Corps and they worked then in 1996 and they work now in 2020.  I do indulge in the magpul followers in my magazines though because they are just cool and I can't get them to tilt no matter how hard I try compared to the mint green followers I don't personally feel polymer will last as long as aluminum however, that's my opinion.  The aluminum magazines fit well in magazine pouches, stack easily and if I'm going to be honest I just like the way they look and perform over plastic and I like the way they look in a stick.  Nostalgia, dunno, but I know what I have endured using them in austere conditions back in the day and they worked then so I suppose they would work now.  I hope this helps bro.  Edited content
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 6:59:18 PM EDT
Since I didn’t see anyone else mention it-If you have anything that uses AR mags, but isn’t actually an AR, polymer mags can be hit or miss depending on what it is and what mags you’re using. Gen 3 PMAGs are supposedly STANAG compatible, but the only mags fairly certain to work in those situations are metal mags.
Link Posted: 11/19/2020 10:12:07 PM EDT
I have a mix of okays, pmags, and lancers. Interestingly, my range mags are 7 Beretta steel mags I got free with my ARX-100. They have been used and abused, are filthy from suppressor use, and have some weird metal follower and have not had any failures.
Link Posted: 11/20/2020 7:09:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OTHP:
I can not skewl you.

Skewl is out.

Only plastic mags i use are made for the gun by the factory.

IE: AUG, glock, and such.

Same here i have pre 94 mags that still run great.

After seeing some plastic aftermarket mag fail pix on the net there is no way I'd waste my time or money on them.

This includes the holier then thou pmag
View Quote



I’m in the same camp, I’ve seen guys take Pmags out of the wrapper and have the split down the back. And that wasn’t even dropping them, now it could have been a bad batch of mags but I don’t use them. I know a whole lot of guys that have used Pmags for years without problems but I have never seen issues using USGI other than what you would expect from normal wear. I’ve got USGI mags from the early 90s that have the original springs and green followers and they work like a charm. USGI or D&H for me, I just bought a dozen of the SHK steel mags to see how they work but they haven’t arrived yet.
Link Posted: 11/22/2020 7:53:33 PM EDT
Metal magazines: proven, will easily last over a century with proper maintenance, heavier than polymer mags, can bend feed lips.

Polymer magazines: new, lightweight, gucci features (ex: being able to see your rounds in a translucent Lancer), can suffer catastrophic breakages, long term durability unknown.


Each has their pros and cons but if you buy both you can cover all your bases.
Link Posted: 11/22/2020 8:44:37 PM EDT
Pmags are heavier than GI mags...
Link Posted: 11/22/2020 9:27:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
Pmags are heavier than GI mags...
View Quote

He's right. ^^^
Link Posted: 11/24/2020 3:20:54 PM EDT
All mags will fail eventually. One of the biggest problems with old school USGI mags is the unstable  followers. Another one is the lips spreading over time. If the mag doesn't fall free under its own weight its likely too worn out to be relied on.

Buy what you like and can afford. Inspect your mags regularly.
Link Posted: 11/24/2020 11:31:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LawHog:
Metal magazines: proven, will easily last over a century with proper maintenance, heavier than polymer mags, can bend feed lips.

Polymer magazines: new, lightweight, gucci features (ex: being able to see your rounds in a translucent Lancer), can suffer catastrophic breakages, long term durability unknown.


Each has their pros and cons but if you buy both you can cover all your bases.
View Quote


Welcome to ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 11/24/2020 11:54:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2020 12:41:53 AM EDT
I own a mix of Aluminum, polymer, and polymer + steel ...

C-products (2014-16 manufacture)
Magpul (mostly gen3)
Lancers
Okay Ind


I have the least 'issues' with my aluminum mags, then probably the Lancers...

It goes against the hive: but I've found my Magpul mags to be the most finnicky in terms of splayed out feed-lips, not wanting to drop free, or on one of my mags the follower itself actually sits canted in the mag-body so it doesn't interface with the bolt-catch properly. Used to work great, but over time, it seems the body has splayed open just enough for the follower to sit weird against the top of the feed-lips... (gen3 20 rounder, fyi)

I don't particularly treat one mag type/brand any different, but over time. I've found myself stocking up on Okay mags more and more. None of my aluminum mags, yes even the C-pro have let me down. All of them function, fit, and drop-free, with no problems.


Aluminum mags weigh the least BTW. Not that it matters to ARFCOM, because everyone here is Tier 1, but maybe if you wanna cut some ounces off your loadout...
Link Posted: 11/25/2020 11:27:07 AM EDT
I wasn't saying they always have trouble. I'm sure under a static load for 30 years they are fine. I was pointing out the problems I've seen with USGI mags personally and encouraging regular inspection of the mags.
Link Posted: 11/25/2020 11:39:00 AM EDT
Lighter
Cheaper

Actually STANAG so they'll work in more guns than Pmags, which were designed for ARs.
Link Posted: 12/11/2020 11:33:15 PM EDT
The mag is the weak link in a semi auto system. I have all types of mags, new stuff made of polymer, and then 40+ year old GI 20 and 30s, Israeli orlite ARs (they made good galil mags too) and even british steel surplus SA80 AR mags (need a refin and follower swap).  I think that the steel mags are the best because they are the most durable, but they are heavy.  The aluminum stuff is a good marriage between weight and durability.  The new polymer stuff is hit or miss but Pmags and Lancer seem to be worth the money.  No mag is infallible - I have had a few bad surplus AK mags.  I personally will take steel HK 416 mags if weight / having to carry them plus gear is not an issue.  YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/11/2020 11:46:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2020 11:53:48 PM EDT by PursuitSS]
Link Posted: 12/11/2020 11:52:56 PM EDT
Beretta used to sell the Italian steel 30-rounders. These were NSN-marked (Italian military) and got some positive reviews. I have no experience with the E-Lander and Korean steel mags, but some guys like them.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 9:25:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


You do know the U.S. Military dropped them because of improper heat treating on the feed lips resulting in the dreaded Type III malfunction?  Also, the springs weaken over time.

The late, great Pat Rogers identified the issue LONG before the Military.

If you can find the rare HK G41 magazines, they apparently do not have the problems the later HK Maritime “High Reliability” magazines have!
View Quote


Good point.  I am pretty sure HK addressed this so it would be the early mags.  I have not had an issue with mine but I admit they dont get shot exclusively or take real world abuse.  I mostly use them, Gen3 P-Mags and old GI aluminum surplus depending on where and what I am shooting. A mag is disposable so I dont think getting attached to any one of them is going to serve anyone well.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 12:03:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 12:09:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Arty8:
They fit in issued molle gear, and just plain work I used OKAYS during my deployments, and continue to do so as a civilian.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/12/2020 4:13:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Even if HK has fixed this issue (I don’t think they have), I can’t see anyway in hell they are worth as much as FIVE Okay Industries magazines!
View Quote


Showing up to the range with a pouch full of HK mags is like showing up to your High School prom driving a Bently
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 8:13:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2020 8:14:31 PM EDT by 11C1P]
My goto mag is a hybrid, the Lancers.  Polymer body but steel feed lips.  I used to stock up on the D&H or similar GI mags but lately have been buying the SureFeed E2 mags.   I also have been getting a bunch of these all steel SHK mags just cause they are cheap & have been in stock almost every time I've checked for the last 8 or 9 months.  You definitely notice the weight difference with those all steel ones though.  

Link Posted: 12/12/2020 8:36:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2020 8:36:26 PM EDT by kered]
i view it as a personal preference.  

with that said i keep mine separated so i dont accidentally load the wrong mag in the wrong gun. i use Pmags for 223 metal mags for 6.8 and lancers for 458
Link Posted: 12/13/2020 8:52:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Even if HK has fixed this issue (I don’t think they have), I can’t see anyway in hell they are worth as much as FIVE Okay Industries magazines!
View Quote


Right and KAC and Colt aren't worth 5x of what you can put together with parts ...
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 11:49:35 AM EDT
I have some pMags, Keep the covers on them so they don't spread the feed lips. I prefer the lancers especially in the AR-10. Have a bunch of the L5AWM for no special reason other than taste!. I have all types of Aluminum, 20's and 30's. New springs in some of the 20's with FTF on FA. Lots of Adventureline and all the other military 30 ads along with the Surefire and second gen in them, D&H and the list goes on. Use a Quality mag and it won't cause problems. I am in a salt air environment and any thing steel eventually rust. Stainless Steel I just haven't tried. All my rifles function with what ever mag I put in them. So if yours won't work with one, work on your rifle. You never know when that will be the only mag you have. Same with ammunition, I have my favorite but my rifles shoot what ever goes in them.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 3:42:20 PM EDT
If the military is moving away from aluminum mags to Pmags you would think that there might be a reason. In my experience with aluminum mags I have had bent feed lips, bad spine weld(mag wouldn't drop free) and dented bodies. With the Pmags my only complaint is I have some that won't always activate the BHO on a AR. The steel mags are actually kind of nice. The ones I have are Asian military and they just seem to work no matter what. They seem fairly strong, have the same size as GI mags, and are cheaper than most other mags.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 3:55:27 PM EDT
I have exactly two pmags. The rest are okays.
Link Posted: 12/27/2020 7:06:45 PM EDT
Metal mags are lighter. Replace the followers with magpul and you get best of both worlds.
Link Posted: 12/27/2020 8:40:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:
Metal mags are lighter. Replace the followers with magpul and you get best of both worlds.
View Quote



Or don’t.  

I’ve been using this set of NHMTGs off and on for eleven years.   Zero issues.  

Link Posted: 12/28/2020 10:21:30 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:



Or don’t.  

I’ve been using this set of NHMTGs off and on for eleven years.   Zero issues.  

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/278546/1511C560-298B-4D3A-8A91-3F34533DD135-1751380.jpg
View Quote

For plinking and/or range use, sure. Not for serious duty use.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 10:46:57 AM EDT
Metal mags stack nicer.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 11:26:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2020 11:26:37 AM EDT by samuse]
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Originally Posted By Creature:

For plinking and/or range use, sure. Not for serious duty use.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Creature:
Originally Posted By samuse:



Or don’t.  

I’ve been using this set of NHMTGs off and on for eleven years.   Zero issues.  

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/278546/1511C560-298B-4D3A-8A91-3F34533DD135-1751380.jpg

For plinking and/or range use, sure. Not for serious duty use.


I don’t know how long it takes you to vet equipment, but after a decade of no problems I would probably say they’re mostly GTG...
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 12:12:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2020 12:13:02 PM EDT by PursuitSS]
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 12:27:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


I don’t have any idea WHY you think that Okay Industries manufactured magazines aren’t suitable for “Serious Duty Use”

I ONLY used Okay magazines in my Duty AR!
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Originally Posted By Creature:

For plinking and/or range use, sure. Not for serious duty use.


I don’t have any idea WHY you think that Okay Industries manufactured magazines aren’t suitable for “Serious Duty Use”

I ONLY used Okay magazines in my Duty AR!

Assuming that the reference is to green followers.

FWIW, I've never had a mag issue due to green followers personally. I don't shoot FA nor do I shoot any A1.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 12:29:22 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


I don’t have any idea WHY you think that Okay Industries manufactured magazines aren’t suitable for “Serious Duty Use”

I ONLY used Okay magazines in my Duty AR!
View Quote



I've got a bunch of Pmags and want to stock up on some metals.

Been finding Okay and D&H of course.

Is there any difference whatsoever in the functionality of the different finishes (black vs grey)?

Black seems a little slicker?  But is that a pro or a con?



Link Posted: 12/28/2020 1:55:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pachucko:



I've got a bunch of Pmags and want to stock up on some metals.

Been finding Okay and D&H of course.

Is there any difference whatsoever in the functionality of the different finishes (black vs grey)?

Black seems a little slicker?  But is that a pro or a con?



View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Pachucko:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


I don’t have any idea WHY you think that Okay Industries manufactured magazines aren’t suitable for “Serious Duty Use”

I ONLY used Okay magazines in my Duty AR!



I've got a bunch of Pmags and want to stock up on some metals.

Been finding Okay and D&H of course.

Is there any difference whatsoever in the functionality of the different finishes (black vs grey)?

Black seems a little slicker?  But is that a pro or a con?




Personal preference.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 3:32:14 PM EDT
Okay, Brownells and D&H are all as good as Magpul, but they are cheaper, which makes them better IMO.

Magpul and Lancer make excellent polymer magazines which cost more.

ASC and C-Products are borderline junk.

ProMag is junk.

I know there are lots of polymer magazines available that I have never tried and probably won't. Okay magazines are my first pick, usually available and always function. They are competitively priced. Rather than mixing my magazine stocks with a variety of brands it's simpler to run something that I know is a proven product and go all in with it.

I refuse to buy unknown magazines at fire sale prices. I don't believe this is an item where you want the cheapest possible option.

Link Posted: 12/28/2020 5:01:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:

Assuming that the reference is to green followers.

FWIW, I've never had a mag issue due to green followers personally. I don't shoot FA nor do I shoot any A1.
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Originally Posted By Creature:

For plinking and/or range use, sure. Not for serious duty use.


I don’t have any idea WHY you think that Okay Industries manufactured magazines aren’t suitable for “Serious Duty Use”

I ONLY used Okay magazines in my Duty AR!

Assuming that the reference is to green followers.

FWIW, I've never had a mag issue due to green followers personally. I don't shoot FA nor do I shoot any A1.
I thought it was pretty obvious that I was referring to the suboptimal followers....but I guess not.
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 1:53:19 AM EDT
I have a mixture of Magpul, D&H, and Okay Surefeed. I like them all and will continue to use them all.
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 2:00:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2020 10:42:09 AM EDT by clausewitz8]
They work, they’re cheap, the feed lips don’t get messed up when loaded & stored, and they don’t crack in half when you drop them 1 too many times.

Magpuls work fine too & are also pretty cheap. Their 20s though are ass, so I stick to Lancer & Okay exclusively for those.

ETA: Magpul curved 20s are fine, straight 20s people had problems but others had no issues. I was being overly opinionated, they’re fine

Okay Surefeed E2s are also ribbed for your pleasure.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 10:18:47 AM EDT
The 20-round PMags are no good? I have a few of them. What's the story?
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School me on metal mags (Page 1 of 2)
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