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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 1/14/2015 6:44:20 PM EST
Good evening, all.

I am wanting a mid-length AR that I can get for under $1000 and like the looks of the M&P and the Spike's. I would very much like the opinions of the forum members on these rifles. I am not married to either rifle and am open to suggestions of other manufacturers.

Thank you much, and have a great night.
Aaron
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 6:46:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2015 6:49:15 PM EST by jtskier11]
Originally Posted By TheWestVirginian:
Good evening, all.

I am wanting a mid-length AR that I can get for under $1000 and like the looks of the M&P and the Spike's. I would very much like the opinions of the forum members on these rifles. I am not married to either rifle and am open to suggestions of other manufacturers.

Thank you much, and have a great night.
Aaron
View Quote


Of those brands, Spikes!! You can get a middy for $799 from AIMSurplus.
Spikes Mid
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 6:48:15 PM EST
That's the primary draw at the moment, jtskier11. Seems a really good price for a Spike's.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 6:53:05 PM EST
Can't go wrong really. There are other routes you can go. You can browse Bravo Company's site, pick an upper with your flavor handguard and get one of their complete lowers from a vendor and probably be at or under a grand. Ton of options there!
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 7:27:36 PM EST
Spikes, or because somebody has to say it, Colt.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 7:31:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jtskier11:
Can't go wrong really. There are other routes you can go. You can browse Bravo Company's site, pick an upper with your flavor handguard and get one of their complete lowers from a vendor and probably be at or under a grand. Ton of options there!
View Quote


^^^^ This. ^^^^

Or, if you're intent on your two original ideas, then I'd say six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 7:53:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2015 7:54:50 PM EST by JP_091]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jtskier11:


Of those brands, Spikes!! You can get a middy for $799 from AIMSurplus.
Spikes Mid
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jtskier11:
Originally Posted By TheWestVirginian:
Good evening, all.

I am wanting a mid-length AR that I can get for under $1000 and like the looks of the M&P and the Spike's. I would very much like the opinions of the forum members on these rifles. I am not married to either rifle and am open to suggestions of other manufacturers.

Thank you much, and have a great night.
Aaron


Of those brands, Spikes!! You can get a middy for $799 from AIMSurplus.
Spikes Mid


+1 I have this same rifle!! It has been great!! I would put it up against my 16" BHF BCM middy any day of the week!!
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 8:57:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2015 9:14:11 PM EST by MS556]
Barrel, barrel, barrel.

5R rifling
1:8 twist
4150 CMV
QPQ SN nitride
Middie gas port 16"

This is carbine Nirvana.

S&W M&P 15 MOE Mid Magpul Spec

compared to a phosphate, chrome lined 1:7 twist Spikes. Excuse me while I yawn.

I have an ST upper. It is great. I upgraded to a slower twist melonite carbine barrel from another company, CMMG, to provide the precision my ST lacked.

You simply cannot get a better carbine length barrel than on the M&P 15 MOE Mid.

Barrel, barrel, barrel. This is the heart and soul of you rifle. All else depends on it.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 9:32:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:
Barrel, barrel, barrel.

5R rifling
1:8 twist
4150 CMV
QPQ SN nitride
Middie gas port 16"

This is carbine Nirvana.

S&W M&P 15 MOE Mid Magpul Spec

compared to a phosphate, chrome lined 1:7 twist Spikes. Excuse me while I yawn.

I have an ST upper. It is great. I upgraded to a slower twist melonite carbine barrel from another company, CMMG, to provide the precision my ST lacked.

You simply cannot get a better carbine length barrel than on the M&P 15 MOE Mid.

Barrel, barrel, barrel. This is the heart and soul of you rifle. All else depends on it.
View Quote


Sometimes, you are so completely full of shit. The components you cut down is deplorable, while ranking the few other items you own as top notch, simply because you chose them it seems.

OP, either one of these rifles will serve you well. Spikes has a great following, and great service.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 9:43:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:
Barrel, barrel, barrel.

5R rifling
1:8 twist
4150 CMV
QPQ SN nitride
Middie gas port 16"

This is carbine Nirvana.

S&W M&P 15 MOE Mid Magpul Spec

compared to a phosphate, chrome lined 1:7 twist Spikes. Excuse me while I yawn.

I have an ST upper. It is great. I upgraded to a slower twist melonite carbine barrel from another company, CMMG, to provide the precision my ST lacked.

You simply cannot get a better carbine length barrel than on the M&P 15 MOE Mid.

Barrel, barrel, barrel. This is the heart and soul of you rifle. All else depends on it.
View Quote



How do our poor soldiers survive without S&W 5r barrels? I've lived 40 years without one and I hit what what I'm aiming at. My rifles keep on ticking without fail.

They good barrels for sure, my cousin is very happy with his. They are not however, the end all be all.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 10:03:43 PM EST
If you like the look of a standard lower, go with the Spikes.

If you like the Magpul edition lower on the S&W, get that one.

Triggers will be basically the same, and you also get the Magpul Art of the Tactical Carbine 1 and 2 with the S&W. The MVG is also included.

S&W also has a lifetime warranty, and a PMAG.

What's the cheapest you found the S&W for?
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 6:20:51 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4ger:
If you like the look of a standard lower, go with the Spikes.

If you like the Magpul edition lower on the S&W, get that one.

Triggers will be basically the same, and you also get the Magpul Art of the Tactical Carbine 1 and 2 with the S&W. The MVG is also included.

S&W also has a lifetime warranty, and a PMAG.

What's the cheapest you found the S&W for?
View Quote


Good morning, M4ger.

I can get the M&P (in FDE, my favorite furniture color ) for $945 after shipping and transfer fee. The Spike's would be $825. $120 may not sound like much in the grand scheme of things but it's a mess of FDE PMAGS. I like the Magpul furniture that comes on the MOE but prefer a quad rail and a SOPMOD stock. Would I swap if I went with the M&P? Not sure. I would definitely change out the standard furniture on the Spike's.
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 7:29:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheWestVirginian:


Good morning, M4ger.

I can get the M&P (in FDE, my favorite furniture color ) for $945 after shipping and transfer fee. The Spike's would be $825. $120 may not sound like much in the grand scheme of things but it's a mess of FDE PMAGS. I like the Magpul furniture that comes on the MOE but prefer a quad rail and a SOPMOD stock. Would I swap if I went with the M&P? Not sure. I would definitely change out the standard furniture on the Spike's.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheWestVirginian:
Originally Posted By M4ger:
If you like the look of a standard lower, go with the Spikes.

If you like the Magpul edition lower on the S&W, get that one.

Triggers will be basically the same, and you also get the Magpul Art of the Tactical Carbine 1 and 2 with the S&W. The MVG is also included.

S&W also has a lifetime warranty, and a PMAG.

What's the cheapest you found the S&W for?


Good morning, M4ger.

I can get the M&P (in FDE, my favorite furniture color ) for $945 after shipping and transfer fee. The Spike's would be $825. $120 may not sound like much in the grand scheme of things but it's a mess of FDE PMAGS. I like the Magpul furniture that comes on the MOE but prefer a quad rail and a SOPMOD stock. Would I swap if I went with the M&P? Not sure. I would definitely change out the standard furniture on the Spike's.



If you plan on getting a quad rail, get the spikes, otherwise, go with the m&p

Why not get a psa complete lower and a bcm upper?
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 9:21:41 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4ger:
If you like the look of a standard lower, go with the Spikes.

If you like the Magpul edition lower on the S&W, get that one.

Triggers will be basically the same, and you also get the Magpul Art of the Tactical Carbine 1 and 2 with the S&W. The MVG is also included.

S&W also has a lifetime warranty, and a PMAG.

What's the cheapest you found the S&W for?
View Quote


I've seen them online at the $900-950 range.

Some other threads here have reported LGS deals a bit below that.
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 9:48:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2015 10:01:51 AM EST by MS556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Alaska511:


Sometimes, you are so completely full of shit. The components you cut down is deplorable, while ranking the few other items you own as top notch, simply because you chose them it seems.

OP, either one of these rifles will serve you well. Spikes has a great following, and great service.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By MS556:
Barrel, barrel, barrel.

5R rifling
1:8 twist
4150 CMV
QPQ SN nitride
Middie gas port 16"

This is carbine Nirvana.

S&W M&P 15 MOE Mid Magpul Spec

compared to a phosphate, chrome lined 1:7 twist Spikes. Excuse me while I yawn.

I have an ST upper. It is great. I upgraded to a slower twist melonite carbine barrel from another company, CMMG, to provide the precision my ST lacked.

You simply cannot get a better carbine length barrel than on the M&P 15 MOE Mid.

Barrel, barrel, barrel. This is the heart and soul of you rifle. All else depends on it.


Sometimes, you are so completely full of shit. The components you cut down is deplorable, while ranking the few other items you own as top notch, simply because you chose them it seems.

OP, either one of these rifles will serve you well. Spikes has a great following, and great service.


Please explain how this particular post by me was incorrect.

I do not own the M&P 15 MOE. I do have a Spikes M4 LE upper, so any perceived bias would favor the Spikes rifle. As stated before, I love that upper. I was disappointed with the 1:7 chrome lined barrel. So I upgraded. I am not alone in stating that 1:7 is not optimal, even for the longest real bullets that can be fed through the mag. It never would be milspec, but for need to stabilize long tracers none of us shoot. 1:8 is objectvely optimal for the ammo range we all typically shoot. Nor am I alone in advocating the benefits of nitride barrels for preserving accuracy and providing better corrosion protection.. Finally, I think you will find extremely strong support in the precision rifle community for the superiority of 5R rifling.

It is rare to find all of this in a barrel that is also 4150 CMV steel, especially under $1,000. This is an amazing combination of features.

I did not know the Spikes rifle had a rail, and if so, whether it is freefloated. The one in the link has neither. Mine had neither. I did the conversion to a freefloat modular rail without difficulty.

I do understand that the Spikes might appeal more to some if it has a rail. I would not let that deter me from getting the better barrel, furniture and an included magazine. On either rifle the A2 front sight would have its days numbered and a modular rail installed later, if not sooner, with a folding front sight.

I'm sorry if I somehow offended you, sir, but facts are facts and I have been objective. If I am mistaken in the facts, I'm man enough to stand corrected without the need to engage in personal attacks from or with someone l don't even know.

Apologies to OP for the distraction.
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 11:24:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:


Please explain how this particular post by me was incorrect.

I do not own the M&P 15 MOE. I do have a Spikes M4 LE upper, so any perceived bias would favor the Spikes rifle. As stated before, I love that upper. I was disappointed with the 1:7 chrome lined barrel. So I upgraded. I am not alone in stating that 1:7 is not optimal, even for the longest real bullets that can be fed through the mag. It never would be milspec, but for need to stabilize long tracers none of us shoot. 1:8 is objectvely optimal for the ammo range we all typically shoot. Nor am I alone in advocating the benefits of nitride barrels for preserving accuracy and providing better corrosion protection.. Finally, I think you will find extremely strong support in the precision rifle community for the superiority of 5R rifling.

It is rare to find all of this in a barrel that is also 4150 CMV steel, especially under $1,000. This is an amazing combination of features.

I did not know the Spikes rifle had a rail, and if so, whether it is freefloated. The one in the link has neither. Mine had neither. I did the conversion to a freefloat modular rail without difficulty.

I do understand that the Spikes might appeal more to some if it has a rail. I would not let that deter me from getting the better barrel, furniture and an included magazine. On either rifle the A2 front sight would have its days numbered and a modular rail installed later, if not sooner, with a folding front sight.

I'm sorry if I somehow offended you, sir, but facts are facts and I have been objective. If I am mistaken in the facts, I'm man enough to stand corrected without the need to engage in personal attacks from or with someone l don't even know.

Apologies to OP for the distraction.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By MS556:
Barrel, barrel, barrel.

5R rifling
1:8 twist
4150 CMV
QPQ SN nitride
Middie gas port 16"

This is carbine Nirvana.

S&W M&P 15 MOE Mid Magpul Spec

compared to a phosphate, chrome lined 1:7 twist Spikes. Excuse me while I yawn.

I have an ST upper. It is great. I upgraded to a slower twist melonite carbine barrel from another company, CMMG, to provide the precision my ST lacked.

You simply cannot get a better carbine length barrel than on the M&P 15 MOE Mid.

Barrel, barrel, barrel. This is the heart and soul of you rifle. All else depends on it.


Sometimes, you are so completely full of shit. The components you cut down is deplorable, while ranking the few other items you own as top notch, simply because you chose them it seems.

OP, either one of these rifles will serve you well. Spikes has a great following, and great service.


Please explain how this particular post by me was incorrect.

I do not own the M&P 15 MOE. I do have a Spikes M4 LE upper, so any perceived bias would favor the Spikes rifle. As stated before, I love that upper. I was disappointed with the 1:7 chrome lined barrel. So I upgraded. I am not alone in stating that 1:7 is not optimal, even for the longest real bullets that can be fed through the mag. It never would be milspec, but for need to stabilize long tracers none of us shoot. 1:8 is objectvely optimal for the ammo range we all typically shoot. Nor am I alone in advocating the benefits of nitride barrels for preserving accuracy and providing better corrosion protection.. Finally, I think you will find extremely strong support in the precision rifle community for the superiority of 5R rifling.

It is rare to find all of this in a barrel that is also 4150 CMV steel, especially under $1,000. This is an amazing combination of features.

I did not know the Spikes rifle had a rail, and if so, whether it is freefloated. The one in the link has neither. Mine had neither. I did the conversion to a freefloat modular rail without difficulty.

I do understand that the Spikes might appeal more to some if it has a rail. I would not let that deter me from getting the better barrel, furniture and an included magazine. On either rifle the A2 front sight would have its days numbered and a modular rail installed later, if not sooner, with a folding front sight.

I'm sorry if I somehow offended you, sir, but facts are facts and I have been objective. If I am mistaken in the facts, I'm man enough to stand corrected without the need to engage in personal attacks from or with someone l don't even know.

Apologies to OP for the distraction.


You said it is the best barrel. Period. There is no better, and then "yawn" a CL 1:7. I want your experiences with all of this; not precision community match load, bolt gun 5R reports from the bench. This guy wants an AR, and it my be real world every day stuff where other things matter.

You condemn 1:7 barrels with chrome lining on a consistent basis on this board, as if they were complete shit. You had one barrel you claim, and if I remember the post correctly, you removed it in short order because you weren't happy with it.

The way you talk about them, I thought you had already shot out 5 barrels and had some data. Last time I remember you posting you said you had 1500 rounds through one barrel. I have thousands of rounds through several barrels in 1:7, and I have not seen the things that you claim. I just want you to be objective, that it is possible.

90% of these guys are not in the precision rifle community (wild guess) and those of us with chrome lined barrel are able to get good accuracy from our equipment. I am not discounting the nitride thing, I have just not seen enough evidence of its superiority. Will it come? Quite possibly. I don't own one, so I can't objectively speak to it.

You don't offend me. There is nothing about you or your gear that would do that. I just feel that your very small sample sizes do not warrant the disdain you show for everything else. Rails, BCGs, sights, receivers...there is a lot of good equipment out there. You should really try some of it out.



Link Posted: 1/15/2015 4:53:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2015 5:00:05 PM EST by MS556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Alaska511:


You said it is the best barrel. Period. There is no better, and then "yawn" a CL 1:7. I want your experiences with all of this; not precision community match load, bolt gun 5R reports from the bench. This guy wants an AR, and it my be real world every day stuff where other things matter.

You condemn 1:7 barrels with chrome lining on a consistent basis on this board, as if they were complete shit. You had one barrel you claim, and if I remember the post correctly, you removed it in short order because you weren't happy with it.

The way you talk about them, I thought you had already shot out 5 barrels and had some data. Last time I remember you posting you said you had 1500 rounds through one barrel. I have thousands of rounds through several barrels in 1:7, and I have not seen the things that you claim. I just want you to be objective, that it is possible.

90% of these guys are not in the precision rifle community (wild guess) and those of us with chrome lined barrel are able to get good accuracy from our equipment. I am not discounting the nitride thing, I have just not seen enough evidence of its superiority. Will it come? Quite possibly. I don't own one, so I can't objectively speak to it.

You don't offend me. There is nothing about you or your gear that would do that. I just feel that your very small sample sizes do not warrant the disdain you show for everything else. Rails, BCGs, sights, receivers...there is a lot of good equipment out there. You should really try some of it out.



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By MS556:
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By MS556:
Barrel, barrel, barrel.

5R rifling
1:8 twist
4150 CMV
QPQ SN nitride
Middie gas port 16"

This is carbine Nirvana.

S&W M&P 15 MOE Mid Magpul Spec

compared to a phosphate, chrome lined 1:7 twist Spikes. Excuse me while I yawn.

I have an ST upper. It is great. I upgraded to a slower twist melonite carbine barrel from another company, CMMG, to provide the precision my ST lacked.

You simply cannot get a better carbine length barrel than on the M&P 15 MOE Mid.

Barrel, barrel, barrel. This is the heart and soul of you rifle. All else depends on it.


Sometimes, you are so completely full of shit. The components you cut down is deplorable, while ranking the few other items you own as top notch, simply because you chose them it seems.

OP, either one of these rifles will serve you well. Spikes has a great following, and great service.


Please explain how this particular post by me was incorrect.

I do not own the M&P 15 MOE. I do have a Spikes M4 LE upper, so any perceived bias would favor the Spikes rifle. As stated before, I love that upper. I was disappointed with the 1:7 chrome lined barrel. So I upgraded. I am not alone in stating that 1:7 is not optimal, even for the longest real bullets that can be fed through the mag. It never would be milspec, but for need to stabilize long tracers none of us shoot. 1:8 is objectvely optimal for the ammo range we all typically shoot. Nor am I alone in advocating the benefits of nitride barrels for preserving accuracy and providing better corrosion protection.. Finally, I think you will find extremely strong support in the precision rifle community for the superiority of 5R rifling.

It is rare to find all of this in a barrel that is also 4150 CMV steel, especially under $1,000. This is an amazing combination of features.

I did not know the Spikes rifle had a rail, and if so, whether it is freefloated. The one in the link has neither. Mine had neither. I did the conversion to a freefloat modular rail without difficulty.

I do understand that the Spikes might appeal more to some if it has a rail. I would not let that deter me from getting the better barrel, furniture and an included magazine. On either rifle the A2 front sight would have its days numbered and a modular rail installed later, if not sooner, with a folding front sight.

I'm sorry if I somehow offended you, sir, but facts are facts and I have been objective. If I am mistaken in the facts, I'm man enough to stand corrected without the need to engage in personal attacks from or with someone l don't even know.

Apologies to OP for the distraction.


You said it is the best barrel. Period. There is no better, and then "yawn" a CL 1:7. I want your experiences with all of this; not precision community match load, bolt gun 5R reports from the bench. This guy wants an AR, and it my be real world every day stuff where other things matter.

You condemn 1:7 barrels with chrome lining on a consistent basis on this board, as if they were complete shit. You had one barrel you claim, and if I remember the post correctly, you removed it in short order because you weren't happy with it.

The way you talk about them, I thought you had already shot out 5 barrels and had some data. Last time I remember you posting you said you had 1500 rounds through one barrel. I have thousands of rounds through several barrels in 1:7, and I have not seen the things that you claim. I just want you to be objective, that it is possible.

90% of these guys are not in the precision rifle community (wild guess) and those of us with chrome lined barrel are able to get good accuracy from our equipment. I am not discounting the nitride thing, I have just not seen enough evidence of its superiority. Will it come? Quite possibly. I don't own one, so I can't objectively speak to it.

You don't offend me. There is nothing about you or your gear that would do that. I just feel that your very small sample sizes do not warrant the disdain you show for everything else. Rails, BCGs, sights, receivers...there is a lot of good equipment out there. You should really try some of it out.





The simple fact remains that this particular Smith barrel is objectvely, measurably, better than the Spikes barrel. It does not matter who reports the data or who collects it. The data is the data, it is voluminous and well-circulated. Whether I have ten times more or less personal experience with a particular weapon component does not change the collective data. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.

On 1:7, I guess you are familiar with the recent testing of M855A1 ammo reported by the NRA's American Rifleman, and how groups were 50% larger from 1:7 barrels in multiple rifles, compared to slower twist. I consider the source reliable, and don't need to shoot 10,000 rounds of it, if I could, to feel comfortable with their conclusion.

Data
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 6:40:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:


The simple fact remains that this particular Smith barrel is objectvely, measurably, better than the Spikes barrel. It does not matter who reports the data or who collects it. The data is the data, it is voluminous and well-circulated. Whether I have ten times more or less personal experience with a particular weapon component does not change the collective data. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.

On 1:7, I guess you are familiar with the recent testing of M855A1 ammo reported by the NRA's American Rifleman, and how groups were 50% larger from 1:7 barrels in multiple rifles, compared to slower twist. I consider the source reliable, and don't need to shoot 10,000 rounds of it, if I could, to feel comfortable with their conclusion.

Data
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By MS556:
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By MS556:
Barrel, barrel, barrel.

5R rifling
1:8 twist
4150 CMV
QPQ SN nitride
Middie gas port 16"

This is carbine Nirvana.

S&W M&P 15 MOE Mid Magpul Spec

compared to a phosphate, chrome lined 1:7 twist Spikes. Excuse me while I yawn.

I have an ST upper. It is great. I upgraded to a slower twist melonite carbine barrel from another company, CMMG, to provide the precision my ST lacked.

You simply cannot get a better carbine length barrel than on the M&P 15 MOE Mid.

Barrel, barrel, barrel. This is the heart and soul of you rifle. All else depends on it.


Sometimes, you are so completely full of shit. The components you cut down is deplorable, while ranking the few other items you own as top notch, simply because you chose them it seems.

OP, either one of these rifles will serve you well. Spikes has a great following, and great service.


Please explain how this particular post by me was incorrect.

I do not own the M&P 15 MOE. I do have a Spikes M4 LE upper, so any perceived bias would favor the Spikes rifle. As stated before, I love that upper. I was disappointed with the 1:7 chrome lined barrel. So I upgraded. I am not alone in stating that 1:7 is not optimal, even for the longest real bullets that can be fed through the mag. It never would be milspec, but for need to stabilize long tracers none of us shoot. 1:8 is objectvely optimal for the ammo range we all typically shoot. Nor am I alone in advocating the benefits of nitride barrels for preserving accuracy and providing better corrosion protection.. Finally, I think you will find extremely strong support in the precision rifle community for the superiority of 5R rifling.

It is rare to find all of this in a barrel that is also 4150 CMV steel, especially under $1,000. This is an amazing combination of features.

I did not know the Spikes rifle had a rail, and if so, whether it is freefloated. The one in the link has neither. Mine had neither. I did the conversion to a freefloat modular rail without difficulty.

I do understand that the Spikes might appeal more to some if it has a rail. I would not let that deter me from getting the better barrel, furniture and an included magazine. On either rifle the A2 front sight would have its days numbered and a modular rail installed later, if not sooner, with a folding front sight.

I'm sorry if I somehow offended you, sir, but facts are facts and I have been objective. If I am mistaken in the facts, I'm man enough to stand corrected without the need to engage in personal attacks from or with someone l don't even know.

Apologies to OP for the distraction.


You said it is the best barrel. Period. There is no better, and then "yawn" a CL 1:7. I want your experiences with all of this; not precision community match load, bolt gun 5R reports from the bench. This guy wants an AR, and it my be real world every day stuff where other things matter.

You condemn 1:7 barrels with chrome lining on a consistent basis on this board, as if they were complete shit. You had one barrel you claim, and if I remember the post correctly, you removed it in short order because you weren't happy with it.

The way you talk about them, I thought you had already shot out 5 barrels and had some data. Last time I remember you posting you said you had 1500 rounds through one barrel. I have thousands of rounds through several barrels in 1:7, and I have not seen the things that you claim. I just want you to be objective, that it is possible.

90% of these guys are not in the precision rifle community (wild guess) and those of us with chrome lined barrel are able to get good accuracy from our equipment. I am not discounting the nitride thing, I have just not seen enough evidence of its superiority. Will it come? Quite possibly. I don't own one, so I can't objectively speak to it.

You don't offend me. There is nothing about you or your gear that would do that. I just feel that your very small sample sizes do not warrant the disdain you show for everything else. Rails, BCGs, sights, receivers...there is a lot of good equipment out there. You should really try some of it out.





The simple fact remains that this particular Smith barrel is objectvely, measurably, better than the Spikes barrel. It does not matter who reports the data or who collects it. The data is the data, it is voluminous and well-circulated. Whether I have ten times more or less personal experience with a particular weapon component does not change the collective data. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.

On 1:7, I guess you are familiar with the recent testing of M855A1 ammo reported by the NRA's American Rifleman, and how groups were 50% larger from 1:7 barrels in multiple rifles, compared to slower twist. I consider the source reliable, and don't need to shoot 10,000 rounds of it, if I could, to feel comfortable with their conclusion.

Data


This. The Smith and Wesson light profile 5R 1-8 nitrided barrel is a better barrel over all than the spikes button rifled chrome lined 1-7 barrel. Not to say Spike's barrel is bad, it is just a base barrel. I prefer the twist, rifling, and profile of the S&W barrel. Nitride may or may not prove more durable than chrome on the inside, but it is surely more durable of an outside coating than standard phosphate.

Now, if we were talking Spike's M249 steel CHF optimum profile barrel, then things get more interesting!
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 6:44:03 PM EST
BCM
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 6:53:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2015 7:00:02 PM EST by DoctorLove]
The above members know far more about detailed specifications and materials than I do. I take their word without a second though. I am just a guy who shoots a lot and cares about reliability and accuracy more than anything else.

I can only speak from personal experiences. I own LMT, PSA and BCM carbines. The BCM is an SBR. I have also shot several issued M4s. As far as quality, my LMT has the best fit and finish out of all them. It is accurate, reliable and has never let me down. That being said, I put my issued Colt through hell and back on deployments in the sand and dirt. It has saved my life and has never once let me down. I have never handled or shot the M&P-15, but S&W is an excellent company with great customer service. I have the M&P 9 and 40 and love them. Out of all the rifles I have I give my LMT the nod hands down when considering fit, finish and overall quality. That being said, I have pushed my issued M4 much harder with much higher stakes and it proved it worth several times over. The barrel is the heart of your rifle. It all depends on what the mission at hand is really. Between Spikes and S&W I would personally go with S&W. That is just me though. I am less worried about material specifications and more concerned with repeatedly putting rounds on target. These days, $1000 can get you a hell of a rifle.
Link Posted: 1/15/2015 7:17:45 PM EST
My first AR was the S&W MOE edition and I still have it. It's a great rifle, I've never had a single issue with it.

I will tell you this, I spent $1000 on it and within the year i put another $1000 into the rifle changing things to my liking (new rail, trigger, stock, red dot,charging handle etc.). If I would have built a rifle, I would have started with better components and got exactly what I wanted, i would have saved myself a few hundred dollars.

Either rifle will serve you well, I would build one though. It will be a good learning experience.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 1:10:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 1:11:02 PM EST by Alaska511]
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Originally Posted By MS556:


The simple fact remains that this particular Smith barrel is objectvely, measurably, better than the Spikes barrel. It does not matter who reports the data or who collects it. The data is the data, it is voluminous and well-circulated. Whether I have ten times more or less personal experience with a particular weapon component does not change the collective data. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.

On 1:7, I guess you are familiar with the recent testing of M855A1 ammo reported by the NRA's American Rifleman, and how groups were 50% larger from 1:7 barrels in multiple rifles, compared to slower twist. I consider the source reliable, and don't need to shoot 10,000 rounds of it, if I could, to feel comfortable with their conclusion.

Data
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Originally Posted By MS556:
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By MS556:
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By MS556:
Barrel, barrel, barrel.

5R rifling
1:8 twist
4150 CMV
QPQ SN nitride
Middie gas port 16"

This is carbine Nirvana.

S&W M&P 15 MOE Mid Magpul Spec

compared to a phosphate, chrome lined 1:7 twist Spikes. Excuse me while I yawn.

I have an ST upper. It is great. I upgraded to a slower twist melonite carbine barrel from another company, CMMG, to provide the precision my ST lacked.

You simply cannot get a better carbine length barrel than on the M&P 15 MOE Mid.

Barrel, barrel, barrel. This is the heart and soul of you rifle. All else depends on it.


Sometimes, you are so completely full of shit. The components you cut down is deplorable, while ranking the few other items you own as top notch, simply because you chose them it seems.

OP, either one of these rifles will serve you well. Spikes has a great following, and great service.


Please explain how this particular post by me was incorrect.

I do not own the M&P 15 MOE. I do have a Spikes M4 LE upper, so any perceived bias would favor the Spikes rifle. As stated before, I love that upper. I was disappointed with the 1:7 chrome lined barrel. So I upgraded. I am not alone in stating that 1:7 is not optimal, even for the longest real bullets that can be fed through the mag. It never would be milspec, but for need to stabilize long tracers none of us shoot. 1:8 is objectvely optimal for the ammo range we all typically shoot. Nor am I alone in advocating the benefits of nitride barrels for preserving accuracy and providing better corrosion protection.. Finally, I think you will find extremely strong support in the precision rifle community for the superiority of 5R rifling.

It is rare to find all of this in a barrel that is also 4150 CMV steel, especially under $1,000. This is an amazing combination of features.

I did not know the Spikes rifle had a rail, and if so, whether it is freefloated. The one in the link has neither. Mine had neither. I did the conversion to a freefloat modular rail without difficulty.

I do understand that the Spikes might appeal more to some if it has a rail. I would not let that deter me from getting the better barrel, furniture and an included magazine. On either rifle the A2 front sight would have its days numbered and a modular rail installed later, if not sooner, with a folding front sight.

I'm sorry if I somehow offended you, sir, but facts are facts and I have been objective. If I am mistaken in the facts, I'm man enough to stand corrected without the need to engage in personal attacks from or with someone l don't even know.

Apologies to OP for the distraction.


You said it is the best barrel. Period. There is no better, and then "yawn" a CL 1:7. I want your experiences with all of this; not precision community match load, bolt gun 5R reports from the bench. This guy wants an AR, and it my be real world every day stuff where other things matter.

You condemn 1:7 barrels with chrome lining on a consistent basis on this board, as if they were complete shit. You had one barrel you claim, and if I remember the post correctly, you removed it in short order because you weren't happy with it.

The way you talk about them, I thought you had already shot out 5 barrels and had some data. Last time I remember you posting you said you had 1500 rounds through one barrel. I have thousands of rounds through several barrels in 1:7, and I have not seen the things that you claim. I just want you to be objective, that it is possible.

90% of these guys are not in the precision rifle community (wild guess) and those of us with chrome lined barrel are able to get good accuracy from our equipment. I am not discounting the nitride thing, I have just not seen enough evidence of its superiority. Will it come? Quite possibly. I don't own one, so I can't objectively speak to it.

You don't offend me. There is nothing about you or your gear that would do that. I just feel that your very small sample sizes do not warrant the disdain you show for everything else. Rails, BCGs, sights, receivers...there is a lot of good equipment out there. You should really try some of it out.





The simple fact remains that this particular Smith barrel is objectvely, measurably, better than the Spikes barrel. It does not matter who reports the data or who collects it. The data is the data, it is voluminous and well-circulated. Whether I have ten times more or less personal experience with a particular weapon component does not change the collective data. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.

On 1:7, I guess you are familiar with the recent testing of M855A1 ammo reported by the NRA's American Rifleman, and how groups were 50% larger from 1:7 barrels in multiple rifles, compared to slower twist. I consider the source reliable, and don't need to shoot 10,000 rounds of it, if I could, to feel comfortable with their conclusion.

Data


Perhaps it is better. You said it was the best available. That is what I replied to, and your opinion of that based on...your experience, and now "DATA" I don't like the message because of the way you posted it, and your biased collective data. I could post miles of data from Molon, which I trust more than the data you cherry picked from the internet to back up your opinion.

No, you don't need to shoot 10K rounds, but I would trust you more if you did, instead of trying to chide on about proven quality components with no personal experience.

For instance; my experience with CMMG barrels is negative, but since I only had one and chose to part ways with it after only about 500 rounds, I don't try to tell you I think they are cheap, and lack quality control when you claim your is a PRECISION barrel. It wouldn't be fair, but that is just my opinion.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 2:07:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 2:15:58 PM EST by p226guy]
Assemble your own. I built this for around $775 and I prefer it to any S&W or Spikes AR.

Specs:
BCM LW Midlength 16" upper
Free BCM BCG
Free BCM Mod 1 Comp
BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle
Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight
MOE midlength Handguards
PSA MOE blem complete lower(added MOE fixed carbine stock)
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 5:32:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By p226guy:
Assemble your own. I built this for around $775 and I prefer it to any S&W or Spikes AR.
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y423/philipdrye/FEE19BD8-A4FF-40AB-BEE5-7E3C285AF95C_zpsbwsogx7q.jpg
Specs:
BCM LW Midlength 16" upper
Free BCM BCG
Free BCM Mod 1 Comp
BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle
Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight
MOE midlength Handguards
PSA MOE blem complete lower(added MOE fixed carbine stock)
View Quote

What's your opinion of the MOE fixed carbine stock? Never considered one before but that looks pretty nice!
How does it attach?
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 5:54:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 10:29:01 PM EST by p226guy]
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Originally Posted By slimslade:

What's your opinion of the MOE fixed carbine stock? Never considered one before but that looks pretty nice!
How does it attach?
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Originally Posted By slimslade:
Originally Posted By p226guy:
Assemble your own. I built this for around $775 and I prefer it to any S&W or Spikes AR.
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y423/philipdrye/FEE19BD8-A4FF-40AB-BEE5-7E3C285AF95C_zpsbwsogx7q.jpg
Specs:
BCM LW Midlength 16" upper
Free BCM BCG
Free BCM Mod 1 Comp
BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle
Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight
MOE midlength Handguards
PSA MOE blem complete lower(added MOE fixed carbine stock)

What's your opinion of the MOE fixed carbine stock? Never considered one before but that looks pretty nice!
How does it attach?

I like it a lot. LOP is like an MOE halfway out. It is also pretty cheap. ($26)

MOE FCS installation - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=inlH090KdpA
ETA- not my video
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:51:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By p226guy:

I like it a lot. LOP is like an MOE halfway out. It is also pretty cheap. ($26)

MOE FCS installation - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=inlH090KdpA
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Originally Posted By p226guy:
Originally Posted By slimslade:
Originally Posted By p226guy:
Assemble your own. I built this for around $775 and I prefer it to any S&W or Spikes AR.
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y423/philipdrye/FEE19BD8-A4FF-40AB-BEE5-7E3C285AF95C_zpsbwsogx7q.jpg
Specs:
BCM LW Midlength 16" upper
Free BCM BCG
Free BCM Mod 1 Comp
BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle
Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight
MOE midlength Handguards
PSA MOE blem complete lower(added MOE fixed carbine stock)

What's your opinion of the MOE fixed carbine stock? Never considered one before but that looks pretty nice!
How does it attach?

I like it a lot. LOP is like an MOE halfway out. It is also pretty cheap. ($26)

MOE FCS installation - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=inlH090KdpA

Short and to the point!
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